danlinde76 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 So our pastor was babbling about how great it is going to be in Heaven. No pain and sorrows and so on. So if he is speaking truth - if my wife and I die tonight,she is going to heaven but won't feel any pain knowing that I would be suffering-meaning she have lost her compassion with people she loves! Then I would prefer hell and at least be able to feel compassion with people. Today's text matt 11.25 "Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." I take it as a compliment. It must mean that I am wise :-) Can't wait for next Sunday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydisplayname Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 "If you plan to be enjoying heaven, while multitudes are tortured in hell forever then you are as much a sociopath as the god that you worship" - Unknown. Today's text matt 11.25 "Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children." Yeah, Jesus avoided the "wise and learned" probably because they realised he's full of shit. Children will believe anything. I'm glad to see someone else from our part of the world. The Americans keep posting in the middle of the night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I love how pastors go on and on about how the suffering we endure in this world is to make us stronger and wiser and build our character, etc, yet then supposedly in heaven we will never suffer or feel pain or sorrow again. For eternity. Yeah, that makes sense! So we live our little lives, for a few minutes or a hundred years, and learn great lessons from our sorrows and pains, then we have eternity to never feel sorrow or pain again? Really? You mean in our few minutes or 100 years we have learned everything we need to learn about being strong and wise? Compared to eternity? I also love how the truth is "hidden" from us by god. Why? What's the point of that? I've even heard pastors say things like, "The truth of the gospel is hidden from non-believers and is revealed only when the Holy Spirit is in a believer. That's why when a non-believer reads the bible, they cannot understand it." Again, why? What's the point of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I also love how the truth is "hidden" from us by god. Why? What's the point of that? I've even heard pastors say things like, "The truth of the gospel is hidden from non-believers and is revealed only when the Holy Spirit is in a believer. That's why when a non-believer reads the bible, they cannot understand it." Again, why? What's the point of that? The point is to allow believers a self satisfied certainty of their own superiority and to defend themselves against all good sense.satanic attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 So I heard someone mention today that his wife had "graduated to heaven." How nauseating. How totally dismissive and demeaning of someone's life. I was completely disgusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I can understand the appeal that a place without pain and sorrow would have. I can also understand why, for example, the family of a cancer victim who died a horribly slow and painful death would be comforted by believing their loved one is now pain free in heaven. Unfortunately, though, none of that erases the inconsistency already pointed out that even the cancer victim who is finally pain free never suffered even %.00001 as much as a person in the eternal hell described in the NT. I could not imagine being happy knowing that someone I love were being cruelly and barbarically tortured every minute of every day forever and ever and ever!! I think the disconnect that has been pointed out in this thread is one of the strongest arguments that there is no hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Agreed OF. I would only add that I can understand it, but I really cannot respect it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Agreed OF. I would only add that I can understand it, but I really cannot respect it. I'm with you. I can't respect any belief that embraces the concept of hell! That belief is utterly reprehensible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I lost a parent to painful cancer. I was pretty far along into no longer believing at that time. I was absolutely shocked at how hard it hit my religious family! They were the ones who had the comfort and joy of heaven and they were crushed and hopeless the way they responded. It was terrible, but the lingering pain and suffering seemed to be far worse for them than me. I wonder sometimes if they have doubts that they cannot acknowledge, because otherwise, I would think that they would be almost bouncing with joy at this point several years gone, because they get eternity to catch up on all the joy and whatever. I on the other hand am able to remember my parent with sad hapiness and still laugh at all the memories that I love. I feel that I have the better situation in not believe somehow. --- On the other hand... how believers in hell could ever deal with the thought of a loved one going there??? I have heard the most outrageous excuses for why some sinning unbeliever who never thought a minute about god was NOT going to heaven. Christians really down-deep, don't believe in heaven or hell I think. How could they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 oh, sorry! I meant to type " ... who never thought a minute about god was NOT going to HELL" I accidentally typed heaven - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I lost a parent to painful cancer. I was pretty far along into no longer believing at that time. I was absolutely shocked at how hard it hit my religious family! They were the ones who had the comfort and joy of heaven and they were crushed and hopeless the way they responded. It was terrible, but the lingering pain and suffering seemed to be far worse for them than me. I wonder sometimes if they have doubts that they cannot acknowledge, because otherwise, I would think that they would be almost bouncing with joy at this point several years gone, because they get eternity to catch up on all the joy and whatever. I on the other hand am able to remember my parent with sad hapiness and still laugh at all the memories that I love. I feel that I have the better situation in not believe somehow. --- On the other hand... how believers in hell could ever deal with the thought of a loved one going there??? I have heard the most outrageous excuses for why some sinning unbeliever who never thought a minute about god was NOT going to heaven. Christians really down-deep, don't believe in heaven or hell I think. How could they? If they really believed the BS about heaven then death would be a joyous occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I wonder sometimes if they have doubts that they cannot acknowledge, because otherwise, I would think that they would be almost bouncing with joy at this point several years gone, because they get eternity to catch up on all the joy and whatever. I brought up the joyous end of the world scenario with a Christian and got verbally blasted by him about my flippant attitude....i guess he isn't looking forward to the second coming of his Lord.... :-) His response allowed me to gauge his level of belief in his own doctrine. I suspect most Christians deep down fear death and the unknown that follows it , yet try to cover it up with thoughts of heaven. Ask any Christian if they would gladly wish Jesus to take them to heaven right now..... see how many immediate "yes" answers you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongWayAround Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 The preacher at my wife's church said last Sunday that it was a test of our spiritual temperature to answer the question "How badly do you want jesus to return right now?" He said this while putting his fingers on his wrist like he was talking his pulse *facepalm*. It has been my experience, that most christians I know, aren't eager for jesus to return anytime soon. But they're not True ChristiansTM are they now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparklingphoenix Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I wonder sometimes if they have doubts that they cannot acknowledge, because otherwise, I would think that they would be almost bouncing with joy at this point several years gone, because they get eternity to catch up on all the joy and whatever. I brought up the joyous end of the world scenario with a Christian and got verbally blasted by him about my flippant attitude....i guess he isn't looking forward to the second coming of his Lord.... :-) His response allowed me to gauge his level of belief in his own doctrine. I suspect most Christians deep down fear death and the unknown that follows it , yet try to cover it up with thoughts of heaven. Ask any Christian if they would gladly wish Jesus to take them to heaven right now..... see how many immediate "yes" answers you get. My grandpa can't wait for the rapture. He says that every time I see him. Lol, he's tired of "this o'l world" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydisplayname Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 I wonder sometimes if they have doubts that they cannot acknowledge, because otherwise, I would think that they would be almost bouncing with joy at this point several years gone, because they get eternity to catch up on all the joy and whatever. I brought up the joyous end of the world scenario with a Christian and got verbally blasted by him about my flippant attitude....i guess he isn't looking forward to the second coming of his Lord.... :-) His response allowed me to gauge his level of belief in his own doctrine. I suspect most Christians deep down fear death and the unknown that follows it , yet try to cover it up with thoughts of heaven. Ask any Christian if they would gladly wish Jesus to take them to heaven right now..... see how many immediate "yes" answers you get. My grandpa can't wait for the rapture. He says that every time I see him. Lol, he's tired of "this o'l world" Around here we don't believe in the rapture. That's obviously a distortion of scripture. No, I was "lucky" enough to be born in a time and place where everyone has already picked the right religion and the right version of that religion. Jay! Seriously though I get why your grandpa would say that. When people get older they get tired of life. They deal with pains and aches that tires them in the long term. Many an older person have told me that they wish it's their time already. I don't even think it's about heaven or hell anymore, but rather this existence is becoming a hell for them. Through science we're extending people's lives in some cases to over a hundred years, but we're not sorting out their quality of life. I had a family member in his 90's who spent several years in bed, blind and deaf, but with a very active brain still. That would be hell for me. Yet, euthanasia is very much illegal here. You're lucky to still have him around. I would give everything I own to have one hour with my grandfather to gain some of the knowledge that he held that is lost now. edit. Goddammit. This made me google euthanasia and this popped up. If you feel like cutting onions go read this. http://www.news24.com/MyNews24/Euthenasia-its-not-so-simple-when-I-think-about-my-son-20140719 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts