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ok so on to my topic.

Why is it that *SOME* Athiest will advocate with their mouth wide open at the highest mountain in the world and say that That there is No Sin? There is no Afterlife?

 

 

The reason is because no one that believes in a concept of sin or an afterlife has demonstrated that these things exist. They have only asserted that they do and in some cases, demanded that we just accept their assertions as fact based on faith.

 

Demanding that someone accepts their faith as fact is like demanding that someone has the same opinion about an art piece.  

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The reason is because no one that believes in a concept of sin or an afterlife has demonstrated that these things exist. They have only asserted that they do and in some cases, demanded that we just accept their assertions as fact based on faith.

 

 

the same people who say there is no sin there is no afterlfie will avoid saying there is No God, to avoid making a positive claim.

That is a Contradiction Steak with A1 sauce all over it

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Why am I being ignored?

 

 

There is no sin.  There is no afterlife.  There is no God.  There is a mountain of evidence that demonstrates that a human being does not exist once the brain dies.  There is also a mountain of evidence that religious concepts such as gods and afterlifes are the fictional creations of human beings.

 

There is no evidence that any god or goddess is real.

 

There is no evidence that any afterlife is real.

 

Thus those who live by evidence instead of faith will follow that evidence to it's logical conclucion.

 

 

 

So sorry, A1, if the evidence does not support your prejudice that atheists live by faith rather than evidence.  By the way I am a hard atheist and will be more than happy to defend my hard atheist views as often as you wish.

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Why am I being ignored?

 

 

There is no sin.  There is no afterlife.  There is no God.  There is a mountain of evidence that demonstrates that a human being does not exist once the brain dies.  There is also a mountain of evidence that religious concepts such as gods and afterlifes are the fictional creations of human beings.

 

There is no evidence that any god or goddess is real.

 

There is no evidence that any afterlife is real.

 

Thus those who live by evidence instead of faith will follow that evidence to it's logical conclucion.

 

 

 

So sorry, A1, if the evidence does not support your prejudice that atheists live by faith rather than evidence.  By the way I am a hard atheist and will be more than happy to defend my hard atheist views as often as you wish.

 

 

Show me one....just one piece of evidence that you use to defend your negative poistion.

 

ironically according to evidence itself...you cannot actally prove a negative.

 

 

 

you probably have a hunch gut, induction and possibility and probability.

 

but hardcore evidence to prove a negative? so im curious how you were able to do it when no one else can.

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Why am I being ignored?

 

 

There is no sin.  There is no afterlife.  There is no God.  There is a mountain of evidence that demonstrates that a human being does not exist once the brain dies.  There is also a mountain of evidence that religious concepts such as gods and afterlifes are the fictional creations of human beings.

 

There is no evidence that any god or goddess is real.

 

There is no evidence that any afterlife is real.

 

Thus those who live by evidence instead of faith will follow that evidence to it's logical conclucion.

 

 

 

So sorry, A1, if the evidence does not support your prejudice that atheists live by faith rather than evidence.  By the way I am a hard atheist and will be more than happy to defend my hard atheist views as often as you wish.

 

 

Show me one....just one piece of evidence that you use to defend your negative poistion.

 

ironically according to evidence itself...you cannot actally prove a negative.

 

 

 

you probably have a hunch gut, induction and possibility and probability.

 

but hardcore evidence to prove a negative? so im curious how you were able to do it when no one else can.

 

 

KD_de_107.jpg

 

(edit - first pic too big)

 

There, that pic is smaller.

 

 

 

Gods and afterlifes were created by humans.  Notice my claim is positive and based on evidence?

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X is true because there is no proof that X is false.

 

Appeal to ignorance.

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X is true because there is no proof that X is false.

 

Appeal to ignorance.

 

 

Nope.  You mischaracterize.

 

X is true because there are thousands of libraries filled with evidence that X is true and there is no evidence that X is false.

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The reason is because no one that believes in a concept of sin or an afterlife has demonstrated that these things exist. They have only asserted that they do and in some cases, demanded that we just accept their assertions as fact based on faith.

 

 

the same people who say there is no sin there is no afterlfie will avoid saying there is No God, to avoid making a positive claim.

That is a Contradiction Steak with A1 sauce all over it

 

 

It really bothers you that people don't believe like you, doesn't it?   Of course it does, that's why you Christians feel the need to convert everyone, destroying cultures and committing genocide.  Then you come here bitching that people don't believe the right way.  Fuck off.

 

How could Christians expect anyone to ever listen to them? The way they act is super shitty.

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mikey simmer down. Im not trying to convery anyone. I cant hold your hand in the street so how could i do something as psychological complicated as changing your entire worldview. You need to get off the high horse my friend.

 

Im here for discussion not personal attacks, i suggest you take heed from your fellow peers who are conversing with me with a teaching attitude and respect

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X is true because there is no proof that X is false.

 

Appeal to ignorance.

 

 

Nope. You mischaracterize.

 

X is true because there are thousands of libraries filled with evidence that X is true and there is no evidence that X is false.

 

 

 

 

 

Gods and afterlife were created by humans? but we dont have tangible emprical evidence of it right is that why you reject it?

 

by the take token could i reject that you can prove a negative because you havent provided any tangible emperical evidence for it?

 

and why is it a cornerstone position by many non a thiest that you cannot prove a negative?

what do you have to say to them?

 

News Cameras Rolling.....

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mikey simmer down. Im not trying to convery anyone. I cant hold your hand in the street so how could i do something as psychological complicated as changing your entire worldview. You need to get off the high horse my friend.

 

Im here for discussion not personal attacks, i suggest you take heed from your fellow peers who are conversing with me with a teaching attitude and respect

You are a Christian on an ex Christian website, you're not here to make friends.  You're hear to proselytize, which your particular brand involves trying to point out logical contradictions among Atheists.  I don't think too many Christians can see their own bullshit, but that's kind of what religion does to people.

 

If you had any respect at all, you'd leave now.  But you don't, and that is very obvious to us even though it's not to you.

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X is true because there is no proof that X is false.

 

Appeal to ignorance.

 

 

Nope. You mischaracterize.

 

X is true because there are thousands of libraries filled with evidence that X is true and there is no evidence that X is false.

 

 

 

 

 

Gods and afterlife were created by humans? but we dont have tangible emprical evidence of it right is that why you reject it?

 

by the take token could i reject that you can prove a negative because you havent provided any tangible emperical evidence for it?

 

and why is it a cornerstone position by many non a thiest that you cannot prove a negative?

what do you have to say to them?

 

News Cameras Rolling.....

 

 

I just showed you an image of tangible, empirical evidence.  Don't lie.

 

I reject god and the afterlife exactly the way you reject Godzilla.  And we both reject said ideas for the exact same reason.  Are you willing to pay extra taxes in order to prepare for the day Godzilla attacks?  The objection "There is no Godzilla" is the perfect response to anybody who tries to implament such a tax.

 

 

 

By the way you have been misinformed.  A negative can be proven under the right conditions.  The Problem of Evil is a classic example of proving a negative, in that case it proves why Christian theology is false.

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Fair enough, a negative can be proven under certain conditions but a God isnt one of them but 6 does not equal 4 is one of them.

Of course you can’t prove that God doesn’t exist you must first define the attributes of what a God is, before you can tell me he doesnt exist

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  • Super Moderator

There is insufficient evidence to support the claim that a god or gods exist.  It doesn't require faith to reject the claim.

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1AA1:

Can a sugar ant send you into paroxysms of outrage? How about a microbe? And yet, according to your beliefs, the difference between the god and us is greater by far than the distance between us and a sugar ant, or even a microbe. Also, what would you think of someone who was so outraged at an ant or a beetle that they tortured it, kept it alive and in pain forever? Even for a few days? We call that cruelty.

If the distance is so much greater between us and the god than between us and the ant, what entity like that could even be moved to outrage by the behavior of a single one of us ants / microbes? Perhaps yo ucould claim it would squish us and we'd be gone. But that it would, like a delinquent sick little boy, keep us alive for the express purpose of torment, because we had offended it somehow?

Just because we find the concept of sin as ludicrous doesn't mean we find the concept of consequences ludicrous. We know that actions have consequences for us and those around us. By even believing in sin, you've created a distinction without a difference. The god apparently can't tell the difference between a stolen cookie and a mass murder: both offenders end up in his boyish torture chamber, artificially supported to remain alive and conscious for the gratuitous eternal torment. And for what purpose? Sin allows for a distinction without a difference. So Sharon Tate is statistically likely to be in Hell, while Susan Atkins, manson girl who killed her, propped up by Pat Robertson and others for her conversion to Christ, is in heaven. And the god is equally aware of both. Ted Bundy, if you believe the Dobson account, is in heaven, while his victims are statistically likely to be in Hell. For their sin? Sin creates a distinction without a difference. It's the ultimate in zero-tolerance policies, and most of us find zero-tolerance policies to be about as judicially effective as eye surgery with a chain saw.

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Fair enough, a negative can be proven under certain conditions but a God isnt one of them but 6 does not equal 4 is one of them.

 

Of course you can’t prove that God doesn’t exist you must first define the attributes of what a God is, before you can tell me he doesnt exist

 

 

Are you willing to pay taxes for Godzilla defense?

 

But you can't prove Godzilla isn't real!

 

Come on, deep down inside you conclude Godzilla isn't real.  You know all the evidence indicates that filmmakers in the 1950's created Godzilla.  That evidence gives you a very good reason to believe that Godzilla is a fictional character.  And we have even more evidence that indicates that God is a fictional character created by ancient men.

 

 

 

Now that your argument is defeated will you stop making snarky comments?

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3 things

 

Just because you Dont LIKE sin doesn't mean it isn't there. Disbelief doesn't erase existence. In the same way you could not believe you would die from jumping off a cliff of 100ft onto the front porch of kim kardashian front yard.

 

2. You cannot say what something ISNT if you Dont even know what it IS...Can't say GOD doesn't exist when you can't tell me exactly with precision what he is.

 

3.we have strong and weak athiesm. But strong athiesm is the one that make positive claims. Weak athiesm is a neutral non intellectual commitment that can win debates by sitting in a chair with a blank stare and say...I Dont believe you... And by default win 100% of all arguments

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3 things

 

Just because you Dont LIKE bigfoot doesn't mean it isn't there. Disbelief doesn't erase existence. In the same way you could not believe you would die from jumping off a cliff of 100ft onto the front porch of kim kardashian front yard.

 

2. You cannot say what something ISNT if you Dont even know what it IS...Can't say BIGFOOT doesn't exist when you can't tell me exactly with precision what he is.

 

3. I don't really understand what atheism is or what a positive claim is; but I'm awake, so I need to annoy someone.

There.  I fixed that for you.  You're welcome.

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3 things

 

Just because you Dont LIKE sin doesn't mean it isn't there. 

 

 

Correct.  It is the fact that gods are fictional characters which makes sin not there.  Imaginary people are not actually offended by anything.

 

 

 

" Disbelief doesn't erase existence."

 

Correct.  Your dislike and disbelief of all the evidence that humans created gods does not make the evidence not exist.

 

 

 

 

"You cannot say what something ISNT if you Dont even know what it IS"

 

Correct.  Fortunately I know exactly what gods are.  They are fictional characters created by humans.

 

 

 

 

"Can't say GOD doesn't exist when you can't tell me exactly with precision what he is."

 

Yet I have told you exactly what God is.  With precision.

 

 

 

 

"But strong athiesm is the one that make positive claims. Weak athiesm is a neutral non intellectual commitment that can win debates by sitting in a chair with a blank stare and say...I Dont believe you... And by default win 100% of all arguments"

 

You have strange ideas about "winning" arguments.  I happen to be a strong atheist.  Are you going to address the positive claims I have made?

 

If some guy comes up to you and tells you that Godzilla created our universe is "there is no such thing as Godzilla" an invalid objection?  Are not all the film credits and studio paperwork evidence that humans created Godzilla?  And of course a fictional character created in the mid 20th century could not have created our universe 13+ billion years ago because Godzilla didn't exist back then.

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a police knock on your door looking for pee wee herman, you could say if you seen him or not, if you knew who pee wee herman was from his TV show, you have a description of him in your mind so you could say clearly if you have not seen him or if you have.

 

A police knock on your door asking for Big foot,Odin,Zues harry potter, curious George, you could say you seen him in a movie or book, but not in the real world.

 

A Police knock on your door asking for God but he doesnt have a picture of God to show you but he wants to know if you seen him. But you say you havent seen him, Police asks how do you know you havent seen him? you have to know what someone looks like FIRST, in order to tell me you have not seen him. Do you know what he looks like? give me a description so i can draw a picture and see if others neighbors can identify him

 

 

 

You dont know what a God is...he is fictional right? thats a cop-out what does God look like is he tall, small, big, skinny, does he have human skin, does he have fur? what are his attributes exactly? no more dancing, because thats aloot of dancing without getting paid.

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We're ex-Christians.  We know what god you're referring to, and we've found evidence of its existence lacking.  Would you like to describe the god that you believe in so that we can debunk it?

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.

 

If i said a girl name Kim, is standing around you. And there are 10 girls standing around you.

How do you know which one is kim? could you say with confidence Kim is not standing around you, when you couldnt verify it? She could but you wouldnt know, this means you cant say something Kim NOT there without knowing who it she is

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thats the thing, how can you debunk refute, reject something you dont know what the attributes are.

 

If i said a girl name Kim, is standing around you. And there are 10 girls standing around you.

How do you know which one is kim? could you say Kim is not standing around you, when you couldnt verify it?

 

If you claim that a girl named Kim is there, the burden of proof would be on you. It would also be on you to describe her attributes. If your description did not match with the girls there, then clearly the claim is false.

 

Also, it appears that you ignored the fact that you were asked to describe the god that you believe in. It's just as you say, we can't refute the existence of something for which we do not know its attributes, so its on you to define those attributes before the existence of the god you believe in can be debated.

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I'm on vacation and haven't been on the computer very much. I just checked in to see what's happening at Ex-C and I find this thread. I think I'll stay on vacation a bit longer.

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A lack of belief requires no evidence. I LACK belief in a lot of things.. so do you. Invisible pink unicorns, reptilian overlords in the White House, leprechauns, elves, egg-laying pastel bunnies, dragons, fairies, Thor, Cerunnos, Shiva, The Great Pumpkin.. the list is endless, of things we all agree are most likely fantasy.

 

I'm a weak atheist… an agnostic atheist. I see no evidence for this Yahweh (or any anthropomorphic god/goddess), and in fact see plenty of evidence that he does not exist - mainly his lack of interacting with the physical world. The Bible is rife with serious problems and being aware of how it was written and compiled I am convinced it is purely a man-made thing - a synergistic compilation of many theological concepts from around the middle-east from the Iron and Bronze ages and embellished during the past 1800 to 2000 years.. currently absorbing a lot of eastern and new age concepts as well. The Bible is NOT concrete evidence… and it's problems are almost too easy to point out. Now, what else is there? Really? Vague feeling, anecdotes, tons of apologetics and the history of christianity - which is bloody and horrid.

 

I see no evidence that christians are any different from any one else..of any or no faith... there is no evidence that they are blessed or otherwise special. This gift of the 'holy ghost' has no fruit. There is no evidence in the lives of those who call themselves christian that would give me any pause to think something special is happening there. (Except for the spelling.. what's with the spelling? You would think all that reading and studying christians are supposed to do would give them a better command of the English language.  sheesh) They're 'special', alright.

 

As an agnostic atheist and an open-minded person i reserve judgement on whether there is anything that could be called a god. I don't know. If evidence comes forth I will consider it. Haven't seen it yet though.

 

Sin is a buzzword… it has little meaning. Originally meaning 'missing the mark'.. after reading/studying the Bible I have to agree that the ancient Hebrews 'missed the mark'… what a bunch of egotistical, war-like, land-hungry, bigoted, ignorant, barbaric, bloodthirsty assholes (including the 'heroes' of the Bible.. all reprobates). Sin means not following ones' own rules… fair enough. They failed, miserably. I do not proscribe to their laws... therefore I can not 'miss the mark'.. not that one, anyway. Therefore I do not, and can not 'sin'. I follow my own moral code just fine though, as well as the laws of my particular region… NO PROBLEM. :D

 

There is NO evidence for an afterlife… there are plenty of ideas from around the world for an afterlife but as of today… no evidence.. in fact all evidence points to the personality ending with physical death… does something survive?… yes.. the atoms and molecules which make us up are recycled by the universe to become other things, and our genes live on in our descendants.. AND if we are lucky, we leave a legacy of having made the world a little bit better for being alive.

 

Maybe there is some sort of existence after physical death… I don't know, but reincarnation makes a whole lot more sense (unending learning and opportunity for an endless variety of experience) for an eternal being (soul?) than the christian concept of 'heaven', considering we are learning beings and explorers by nature.

 

I was a christian for most of my life, and being who I am studied deeply the Bible and various interpretations thereof. It just doesn't make sense when it comes down to it… and is in many ways an abhorrent belief system based on human sacrifice, blood rites and scapegoating. No.. any supreme being there may hypothetically be would not be nearly so petty or bloodthirsty as Yahweh of the Hebrews.

 

When I began to look at the universe, first through the Hubble images, then began to learn about how it all works and the vastness and incredible beauty, mystery and magnificence it, it became very clear to me just how pedestrian and low the human species imaginings of it actually are… reality is more majestic, more awe-inspiring than anything I've ever found in ancient texts. Then I realized that there are people in the world doing wonderful things for others, either without religion or in spite of it…or through science… these old myths aren't NEEDED anymore, these superstitious, and fearful fairytales. We could use more humanism though.

 

I am glad to be where I am now.

 

And.. what the hell are you talking about anyway?, seriously… please proofread and straighten out your argument/points first.. GAH!! It's like trying to read IKEA instructions transliterated from Malaysian to Russian and then to English by native speakers of none of these languages.

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