Car Versus Baby

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

So we know that a car cannot be an atheist(yay I spelled it right).

However a car doesn't believe in God

 

So what do you call a car that is not an athiest but doesn't believe in God?

 

A baby the second it is born if its true that it also does not believe in God

 

Then at that moment it's born BEFORE the baby grows up or is exposed to God. It cannot decide in either direction to believe or not believe in God. So athiesm being the default position cannot truly be clarified BEFORE a babies/ child's understanding of the concept. So it is not defaulted as an athiest if it cannot decide and unless you can give me an example of someone doing a test/experiment questioning a baby when the first day its BORN reading its mind and thoughts then athiesm being the default position cannot be known with true certainly BEFORE it grows up or is aware or able to be questioned. Again BEFORE it grow up. Emphasis on BEFORE

 

other than the sheer nature what is the difference between a car and a baby before awareness in terms of their beliefs capabilities?

 

 

Word on the street says that laughter is the bodies natural response to stupidity

 

So if no one laughs at this post either I'm highly intelligent, your mute or I'm deaf

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

If we define atheism as "lack of belief in god(s)", then yes, we can say that a car is an atheist because, let's face it, it can't believe in anything (at least I have not met a car with the ability to hold personal beliefs). If we use this same definition, then a baby is also an atheist because it is unable to believe in gods without first having an understanding of gods.

 

This does not mean that they have arrived at atheism because they looked at the available evidence for the existence of gods and found that evidence lacking (which is impossible for nonliving objects and babies), it just means they are incapable of believing in gods, making them atheists (based on the definition I used).

 

Now, if we were to define the word "atheism" differently, such that the lack of belief in gods requires the ability to decide whether or not something is true based on available evidence, to reject god claims, then neither babies nor cars would be atheists.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

A car cannot be athiest because the definition applies to sentient beings only.

 

And are u using induction and possobility statistics to make a 100% deduction that babies absolutely lack the belief the day they are born?

[Avandris]

Babies would certainly lack a belief in god, heck they don't even understand object permanence (the idea that an object continues to exist even though it can't be seen) before 9-12 months let alone whether a person or, still further, a divine being exists when not seen.

 

So, no. Babies do not believe in god, they wouldn't even know he/she/it exists.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

A car cannot be athiest because the definition applies to sentient beings only.

 

And are u using induction and possobility statistics to make a 100% deduction that babies absolutely lack the belief the day they are born?

 

Based on the first definition, sentience is not required. What makes a car, a human baby, a dolphin, the planet Mars, or an adult human an atheist depends entirely on how you define it. The definition that I am most familiar with is simply: lack of belief in gods, which would, technically make all nonliving objects atheists. Since a car is non-sentient, it sounds silly to label it an atheist, but based on the definition, the label fits.

 

As for whether or not babies lack belief when they are born, I see no reason to think that they are capable of believing anything. Based on the evidence I have available, I am convinced that all they know is what their bodies and their still-developing brains tell them (such as when they are hungry, sick, tired, hurting, itching, sad, happy, etc.). Since they are unable to communicate with us the way that you and I can communicate, we can't honestly know 100% if they believe in anything or not, but there is good reason to think they are incapable of believing in gods.

[mymistake]

Yeah right.  And we can't know there is no god because rich relatives exist.  A1 haven't you embarrassed yourself enough?

 

 

You are an atheist.  Yes you, A1, regarding the 5,000 or more gods that humans have created except for that one you were indoctrinated into as a child.  Good thing your parents brainwashed you with the right religion unlike the billions of people who got brainwashed with the wrong religion.  The religion you were brainwashed with as a child depends mostly on geography.  If the right empire conquered the land centuries ago then chances are you will be raised Christian.  But if some other gods let the wrong empire to conquer your land centuries ago then you will be raised with one of those thousands of false religions.

 

 

                  

[mymistake]

 

Based on the first definition, sentience is not required. 

 

 

 

IMO the word is meaningless when applied to something that can't think.  But since A1 brought it up how many times have you heard a Christian object that we needed free will or else we would be a robot or, like a car, an inanimate object.  Well in Christian theology cars don't get sent to hell to be tormented for all eternity.  If Christianity were true the rocks and robots have it far better than most people.

 

Good thing Christian theology is a pile of crap.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

IMO the word is meaningless when applied to something that can't think.

 

 

I agree that when applied to objects that can't think, the word is meaningless, but the definition can still apply, at least in the context of this discussion.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Yeah right. And we can't know there is no god because rich relatives exist. A1 haven't you embarrassed yourself enough?

 

 

You are an atheist. Yes you, A1, regarding the 5,000 or more gods that humans have created except for that one you were indoctrinated into as a child. Good thing your parents brainwashed you with the right religion unlike the billions of people who got brainwashed with the wrong religion. The religion you were brainwashed with as a child depends mostly on geography. If the right empire conquered the land centuries ago then chances are you will be raised Christian. But if some other gods let the wrong empire to conquer your land centuries ago then you will be raised with one of those thousands of false religions.

 

 

If you read my story u would know I was athiest for 20years of my life. So I wasn't born or brainwashed into it. I put considerable thought Into my conversion no one taught or trained me I had no bible or church and I lacked belief and disregarded church as a joke or a place to sleep.

 

It is very possible starting out in one religion to get adopted into Christianity look at Ravi Zacharias who was definitely not born into a christian household and many other religions who dropped theirs and adopted chritianty

 

Although this has happened vise versa as well but this debunks your theory that you are stuck with whatever you are raised in especially since c.s. lewis and many others were athiest as well

[mymistake]

 

. . .  but this debunks your theory that you are stuck with whatever you are raised in . . . 

 

 

 

I don't have a theory that you are stuck with whatever you are raised in.

 

Aren't you done embarrassing yourself?

 

 

 

 

 

. . . I was athiest for 20years of my life. So I wasn't born or brainwashed into it. I put considerable thought Into my conversion no one taught or trained me I had no bible or church and I lacked belief and disregarded church as a joke or a place to sleep.

 

 

Wait a minute.  Do you expect us to believe that you had never heard of Christianity and then you spontaneously became a Christian without any Christian or book giving you any guidance?

 

So you've not read the Bible, not heard any preaching, never been taught and know nothing about Christian theology.

 

And of course you can't present these careful throughs you came up with back when you were 20.

[Ravenstar]

You are so incredibly full of shit… you are trying to compare a car, with a person.. theologically? logically? In any way.. and you expect us to take you seriously?

 

I've followed all of your posts and threads.. I have come to a conclusion: you are a troll, you have no purpose here except to stir the pot and waste WebDave's bandwidth with your puerile, boorish arguments and callow attempts at logic. I find your analogies/metaphors frankly.. cretinous. In my WORST days as a christian I was never as completely vacuous and nescient as you have shown yourself to be. (good grief.. I'd be SO embarrassed) So you are either very young and stupid, or you are just a common ass.

 

If you were remotely entertaining…or even a tad witty or sarcastic, or even ironic, but that's not the case. I have seen nothing from you that lends me to believe you are remotely empathetic or thoughtful in the least - and that is something I just can NOT relate to… especially in those espousing faith.

 

I am done… it's a waste of my energy.

 

For the lurkers.. my opinion may seem harsh, but sometimes you just have to call bullshit out for what it is and walk away from a fruitless endeavour. We've had some heated arguments here in the Den, some frustrating, some annoying, some very enlightening… but this stuff, ad infinitum?, not worth it.

[Fweethawt]

The one thing even more difficult to believe in than the christian god, is the fact that people respond to this guy.

 

There's a good chance he'll get smoked anyway. Kevin gave him a very clear warning against starting a new thread.

 

Anyone care to speed things up by letting him know now? I'm at work so, I can't do it now.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

I'm surprised CG and my mistake saw me trying to converse but Everyone else thing I'm trolling. Split decision. I am not trolling. I'm trying to have a real discussion by explaining my points.

 

Just because you instantly disagree doesn't mean in automatically trolling.

Is that the definition of a troll. Someone you disagree with?

 

Trolling would be purposely trying to piss people off. Not having a what you subjectivetly conclude as a bad argument. Or because I may have a genuine Lack of understanding in certain things. If you got time to belittle you have time to teach. If you got time to condescend you have time to help. If you have time to judge you have time to show love .

 

Ya know how when a new Christian comes in here and they present a topic and then people there destroy it with logic and the christian starts crying and running away and saying your being mean. When really your intellect is so high you were simply trying to teach or help not hurt or belittle.

 

This is the same feeling your giving to me. I have a thread or post you disagree with and you automatically think I'm trolling Without seeing who I am as a person only assume what you want me to be.

 

I'm saddened Ravenstar you feel this way about me. But i cannot bow down to a mistaken identity and character assasination. Regardless you are still my mentor for your writing style is impeccable. And grammer is phenomenal. And your heart for teaching is exponential.

 

It's like u Dont even remember who I am. All your other posts to me have been of teaching and respect and love. But this....I don't know what this is.

 

 

Fweethawt

I asked about 4times about starting a new thread in my last thread not a single person told me not to start a new one. I even asked for advice on how to proceed that is satisfactory to the atheist here. Still no answer.

 

All I heard was the S word. Which following this post maybe someone will reveal what that word was.

 

But that word provided no explanation as to how to proceed to satisfy all parties.

 

 

In a nutshell. I am not trolling. I'm trying to converse with purpose and understanding. If I wanted to troll I be preaching every post calling people names. I've done none of that.

 

If you want to get to know me join chat here I'm there all the time. I enjoy speaking with Atheists I love it here this is my home. I Dont preach in there I Dont convert in there I have natural conversation like any other human being.

 

If you Want to judge belittle condenscend me go ahead but Dont expect any Sauce on your steak.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

He's not in chat all the time, thankfully.

 

I suggest we stop feeding the troll.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Lol free I see you in chat like everyday

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

You were the one who was so kind to give me the idea for my avatar. I appreciate that thanks.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Yeah right. And we can't know there is no god because rich relatives exist. A1 haven't you embarrassed yourself enough?

 

 

You are an atheist. Yes you, A1, regarding the 5,000 or more gods that humans have created except for that one you were indoctrinated into as a child. Good thing your parents brainwashed you with the right religion unlike the billions of people who got brainwashed with the wrong religion. The religion you were brainwashed with as a child depends mostly on geography. If the right empire conquered the land centuries ago then chances are you will be raised Christian. But if some other gods let the wrong empire to conquer your land centuries ago then you will be raised with one of those thousands of false religions.

 

 

So sorry for the interruption. So where were we?

 

So when you said Good thing your parents brainwashed you with the right religion unlike the billions of people who got brainwashed with the wrong religion."

 

With this whatbwere you indicating? that someone starting with a different religion could not change to another? Idk u know your intentions better than me. But c.s. lewis and ravi Zacharias loved lives contradictory to this assessment

 

And to answer your other post. Yea I was exposed to christianty at a young age but I rejected all of it even disgraced the church with unspeakable acts.

 

After people realize they can't force me to think their way. After they realize I will not do what I want and say what I want. People stop trying to convert me in was a free man. I rejected it for many years

 

 

In later years I came to know Christ on my own terms. Because many things I heard about Christianty was a lie. So I did research for myself. I didn't at that time have a church or bible is what I meant. I didn't know God IN a church or thru teaching.

[Fweethawt]

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66004-a1-sauce-mmmm-mladiesdinneris-served/page-8#entry1013430

 

 

Want to deny this again?

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

1 person out of 10 is not justifiable. Furthermore I asked for an explanation to why That's is what i was referring to that No one gave as a reason for their answer. And if they Dont NEED a reason why do I?

 

Care to tell me why 1 person out of 10 felt that way? Why didn't the others respond you cant tell me that can you? Or is 1 person the majority and 9 is the minority?

 

That's like saying we love each other and we can't be part... but yet live in two separate houses dating other people.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

You were the one who was so kind to give me the idea for my avatar. I appreciate that thanks.

 

That's because I was tired of seeing the no avatar smiley face when I knew a sauce bottle would be cool and funny.

 

Look,  I think you're an ok guy.  I'm not convinced by your assertions that biblegod exists.  

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Fair enough. But no atheist is convinced for the past 2000 years. Hence my job isn't to convince but to converse and discuss naturally since its impossible to use Un-stocked questions and answers

 

For what its worth I think ur an OK girl or woman as well

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Fair enough. But no atheist is convinced for the past 2000 years. Hence my job isn't to convince but to converse and discuss naturally since its impossible to use Un-stocked questions and answers

 

For what its worth I think ur an OK girl or woman as well

 

I'm a woman, girls are under 18  Funny how people dont say boy or man to an adult.

 

Personally I would rather you were discussing theism naturally, but you seem to use stock standard apologetics that we've seen before.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Are we really going to have another thread full of this kid's inane babble and endless trolling? 

[RankStranger]

The car would definitely win. It's made outta metal and those lazy-assed babies won't even get up and walk.

[mymistake]

I was exposed to christianty at a young age . . .

 

So you were indoctrinated as a child.  I thought so.  You have been dishonest in your dealings with me.  Don't think that I have not noticed.  When your arguments are defeated you ignore it and continue right along with typical troll behavior.

 

 

I guess this is goodbye