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Goodbye Jesus

The Faith Problem


WarriorPoet

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Luke 13:11-12

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

 

 

Justus,

 

Please note that other Christians have had threads locked or have been banned for 'trolling' this forum with Bible passages.

 

BAA

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Luke 13:11-12

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

 

 

The Flying Spaghetti Monster would have healed her sooner and fed her pasta.  The Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't leave people suffering in order to glorify himself.

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The flood story about faith is ridiculous.  Either the person experiencing the flood thinks faith lies in god providing him with being saved by boat, helicopter, etc, in which case god could say, "You didn't have enough faith to ride out the storm and know that I would protect you in your house," or it ends like the story does, where god gets to deride the person for not having enough faith in what was sent to him. 

 

Either way, no matter what the man chooses, he gets blamed and derided.  And by dying in the flood, once again xianity blames the victim rather than their all-knowing god.

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faith
1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

~dictionary.com

 

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
~ Hebrews 11:1

 

So I have faith and I am trusting in something I cannot explicitly prove.

I see, what I believe, are signs of a creator God. I see, what I believe, are answers to my questions on the meaning of life in the scriptures and in Christ. Those are the reasons of my faith.

 

And I agree, if the Christian faith is a lie, then as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15

"we are of all men most miserable."

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You have faith in the things you cannot see or prove, Ironhorse.

 

Yet you have no faith in the things you don't wish to see and don't wish to be proven to you.

 

So your faith is a matter of personal choice, not intellectual honesty.

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Guest Furball

 

I see, what I believe, are signs of a creator God. I see, what I believe, are answers to my questions on the meaning of life in the scriptures and in Christ. Those are the reasons of my faith.

 

And I agree, if the Christian faith is a lie, then as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15

"we are of all men most miserable."

On the first quote, i believed the same thing when i was deceived. The only answer the bible gives to the meaning of life is to glorify god, which the bible says we all failed to do, therefor rendering no meaning to life. How do you know the god of the bible is the true creator? If you do some digging, you will find that the god of the bible didn't show up until way later after other gods were worshipped. 

 

As to the second quote by paul, there is a cure to that misery, it's called deconversion.

 

When I was a christian for 13 years, i never met anyone more hard core than me, even christians found me annoying and thought i was a crazy fanatic. I believed everything you claim to believe, yet here i am deconverted and all the more happy about it. Your obviously on this website for a reason. The bible says your not to have any fellowship with the unbelievers, yet here you are fellowshipping with us, which is in direct rebellion to the scriptures and the god you claim to believe in. Maybe deep down your on here because part of you doesn't really believe it. Jesus said you were his friend "only" if you do whatsoever he commands you to do. If he commands you not to communicate with us or have anything to do with us, and you are doing just what jesus said not to do, then how are you jesus' friend? -food for thought , peace

 

p.s. I am just asking questions, not putting you down. cool.png

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faith

1. complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

2. strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

~dictionary.com

 

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

~ Hebrews 11:1

 

So I have faith and I am trusting in something I cannot explicitly prove.

I see, what I believe, are signs of a creator God. I see, what I believe, are answers to my questions on the meaning of life in the scriptures and in Christ. Those are the reasons of my faith.

 

And I agree, if the Christian faith is a lie, then as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15

"we are of all men most miserable."

 

 

If you want to make yourself miserable that is your business.  We are done making ourselves miserable so if you would kindly stop preaching that would be great.  I do not show up at your church and disrupt the service to tell everyone about the greatness of atheism.  Please return the favor.

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ironhorse: You said that Muslims have at least as much faith as Xtians. And that neither Xtians nor Muslims have the luxury of facts to support their faith. Well then, why should a Muslim go to hell but  a Xtian go to heaven where both could use only faith with no evidence? Why wouldn't god provide people with evidence of the truth of the Xtian faith if he really wants people to have faith in Jesus and if he set the penalty for not having faith as eternal torture in hell? Face it. It's nonsense. Rip

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To the OP

 

The faith I exemplify has a pattern of consistency

or

based on reasonable certainty

Or

and logical and rational assessment.

Or

Understanding of Gods character

 

Sometimes all I use Four

 

Let's use faith it in your OP example

 

In the boat scenario I could not use consistentcy that was the first time I was in that situation so that leaves me with the other 3. I would use *reasonable certainty* based on Explanatory power of why God wants me to live because he made me he doesnt want me to die and avoid death after that, if I have understanding of *Gods character* he was going to save me after praying that he gave me a brain to think with and wants me to help people so people helping me I should accept it, in the same way God would like if people accepted MY help of it was the other way around then I would use my *logical assement* to look at all factors God wanting me to live, his love for people and reasonable certainty that I'm being offered help to take it so I can help more people in the future

 

Then using my faith in this way I would have accepted those invitations to safety.

 

 

Reminds me of a story who walked off a building or cliff or something because she thought she saw Jesus in the clouds and tried to go with him and plummeted to her death. If she factored in God wanted her to live and other biblical parts that explain how to not fall for false returns of Christ. She might have spared her life

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Understanding of Godzilla's character

 

 

But can you really understand Godzilla's character?

 

 

 

. . . based on Explanatory power of why Godzilla wants me to live because he made me he doesnt want me to die and avoid death after that, if I have understanding of *Godzilla's character* he was going to save me after praying that he gave me a brain to think with and wants me to help people so people helping me I should accept it, in the same way Godzilla would like if people accepted MY help of it was the other way around then I would use my *logical assement* to look at all factors Godzilla wanting me to live, his love for people and reasonable certainty that I'm being offered help to take it so I can help more people in the future

 

Have you even read the books or seen the movies?  I don't think Godzilla wants any of us to live.  Godzilla is going to do everything in his power to ensure that we die.

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I haven't seen the movie yet but I tell you what....you buy me the movie and I give you a discount on my secret evidence for God at a reduced rate. $3,999,999 that's 90% off the original price.... Shhhhhh Dont tell anyone.

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I haven't seen the movie yet but I tell you what....you buy me the movie and I give you a discount on my secret evidence for God at a reduced rate. $3,999,999 that's 90% off the original price.... Shhhhhh Dont tell anyone.

 

 

Yeah, and the ex-President of Nigeria wants to split his multi-million dollar "retirement fund" with me 50-50 if I will simply do one minute of work.  Scams fail when people can detect the bullshit.

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To the OP

 

The faith I exemplify has a pattern of consistency

or

based on reasonable certainty

Or

and logical and rational assessment.

Or

Understanding of Gods character

 

Sometimes all I use Four

 

Let's use faith it in your OP example

 

In the boat scenario I could not use consistentcy that was the first time I was in that situation so that leaves me with the other 3. I would use *reasonable certainty* based on Explanatory power of why God wants me to live because he made me he doesnt want me to die and avoid death after that, if I have understanding of *Gods character* he was going to save me after praying that he gave me a brain to think with and wants me to help people so people helping me I should accept it, in the same way God would like if people accepted MY help of it was the other way around then I would use my *logical assement* to look at all factors God wanting me to live, his love for people and reasonable certainty that I'm being offered help to take it so I can help more people in the future

 

Then using my faith in this way I would have accepted those invitations to safety.

 

 

Reminds me of a story who walked off a building or cliff or something because she thought she saw Jesus in the clouds and tried to go with him and plummeted to her death. If she factored in God wanted her to live and other biblical parts that explain how to not fall for false returns of Christ. She might have spared her life

 

Folks, don't trust this Christian any further than you can spit!

 

Here's the lowdown on his skulduggery... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66296-sunday-dispatch-for-ironhorse/#.VKvD9tKsWnI ( #18)

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Seeing as I can't make a siggie yet, I'll say it here - warning! I tend to make long posts/replies, and sometimes more than one at a time depending on how long they are. I know you will love me for it! tongue.png

 

If I understand this forum's rules correctly, then my reply here - and future replies which reflect this - should be OK, I hope! If I'm in the wrong, then I apologise in advance.

 

 

GB0ga1w.jpg

I was in a cell church, which just means during the week you go into smaller groups of people, both believers and non-believers if any, and talk more about what the Sunday preach was about. Rather, you don't discuss but are preached to, but "encouraged" to "participate" more than you could do in church. Also sometimes in cell meetings, there were "out-reach" events, which basically speaks for itself - doing a non-christianical* things to try and encourage people to come to cell which is better than church, to try and ease them in, etc., and also mentioning very briefly a bit about the religion and what-have-you. All the while being overly enthusiastic and having a fake, plastic, christian smile on your face!

 

bcxnKGq.gif

Ooh, that is disgusting! Lol.

My "cell leader" was trying to help me become a cell leader and have my own cell. I went through a course-type thing, as well, and because I helped with some church things (I think during that particular previous summer) I didn't have to pay for the course. I try and help wherever I am by nature, anyway. As part of him trying to make me a disciple, [as per "win; consolidate; disciple; send" which is from G12, a christian organisation thing the church was a part of for a time, until a particular high-up worker "made some wrong decisions" which forced the church to leave it...] he told me once which I can remember was in a meeting-type thing just with him and I one-on-one... a short story of a group of kids who were christians and believed and had faith and all of that, who had to cross a body of water, more than a stream - like a river or something, and they couldn't get around it nor over it via a bridge. They prayed and believed and had faith in "god", and went across, carefully, of course. Despite all their efforts and having "child-like faith" - don't forget that they were children themselves - they still drowned and died. My cell leader told me that when christians learnt of this, many "fell away" from "god"/the church.

 

No believer could ever fault the man from the story for not having enough faith.

 

Thank...erm...well, not "god" that I'm not a believer! The man in that story was an idiot. Instead of being retarded, he should have moved and continued to live. I state the obvious, of course. The children in the story I was told were not idiots, but they were still brainwashed, and having "child-like faith" didn't help these poor children. I don't know if this story was actually true or not, though, or if it was merely an allegory (which I was not told) to make me believe. I.E. a lie in a story which was not true - just like the bible, a faerie tale story book. But if the story was true, you'd expect on such a large, long-lived site as this with many ex-christians who'd eventually find it, at least some of them would have heard such a story like that near to where they live or lived and cound verify it with a news source... Of course not so far!!


If you're ever discussing religion with a believer, eventually it will probably get to the point where they say, "you have to have faith"

 

Definitely. Faith, however, is not proof. I don't need to have faith in my computer working because I know it works! (Although my OS is by Microsoft, though!) Faith, as I'm sure everyone knows, is choosing to accept something regardless of anything - especially regardless of facts and especially regardless of the obvious. People are blinded by faith.

 

the faith is built on layer upon layer of uncertainty.

 

They are beaten down so far and when something does finally happen, they say, "praise jebus!" and when non-idiots question why they were so stupid, they say, "'god' works in mysterious ways!". By the way, does the bible say "'god' works in mysterious ways"?!! No? Well, if it ain't in da baaaboow, it ain't tryoo!

 

You have absolutely no way of knowing that faith in the god of the bible is correct.

 

The bible is a jewish book which has a character called "god" and this book says this character wrote this book in which this character appears. This book also references itself. That's like saying Harry Potter wrote Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone and the rest of the series, but we know J K Rowling wrote these books. We know she did because we have proof of it, we have seen and heard her, and we can actually touch her (with her permission). "god", on the other hand is merely a "faith" thing that cannot be seen, heard, nor touched. "Read the bible" is not seeing, hearing, nor touching "god". It is reading a fairie tale story book. I could see, hear, and touch Daniel Radcliffe, but not the character Harry Potter. No-one can see, hear, nor touch the character "god", whether by reading the bible or in actuality.

 

you certainly have "enough" faith.

 

Yet they still can say to this mountain, "Go, throw yourself into a river" but it still won't be done. The bible lies.

 

How can you possibly be so sure that when you die, you won't find your entrance into heavan being denied?

 

One word - one-hundred-and-fourty-four-thousand.


*Ohh. I thought I just invented this word but I didn't. sad.pngremoves the trademark icon :/

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"If you're ever discussing religion with a believer, eventually it will probably get to the point where they say, "you have to have faith".  But therein lies the problem, how can we be sure that having faith in what they believe is correct?  The answer:  that requires faith as well.  There is no foundation based in fact, the faith is built on layer upon layer of uncertainty.  You have absolutely no way of knowing that faith in the god of the bible is correct.  Muslims have faith that is just as strong as that of any christian, so do hindus, and so do the followers of many other religions of this world."

 

~WarriorPoet 

 

 

You right. It is all about faith.

 

I have chosen to place my faith in Christ.

 

 

Christ said you should give me $500.  Take it on faith.

 

 

Wholey shizzlnit on a stick!! ohmy.png You - especially the christians - won't believe me when I say this, but fark! I was in Brazil about 2 years ago - Well, it's 3 now because we're in 2015, aren't we? - and as part of my usual stay there I hired rent boys. This particular time I had a delectible boy called Jesus, pronounced "hey-zyoose" or "Hey, Zeus!", the Brazilian/Portuguese/Spanish/Mexican way. I definitely chose him to be my regular boy each time I visit because of his deliciousness and excellent...service! wink.png

 

Jesus - my rent boy from when I visited Brazil a couple of years ago who was...sublime! - is psychic. I was sceptical at first, naturally, and believed he had not one, not two, but three screws loose, but I played along because he was so incredibly sexy. It turns out he was not one of those fake crap "psychics" who only "see" more things after you give them more money; he proved to me actually certain things after that incident which I swore I would never reveal to anyone lest my penis shrinks, turns green, and falls off, then turns into a toad and hops away.

 

Anyhoo, in one of his sessions while he was pausing for breaths while satisfying me fully, he predicted three years ago when I was with him in Brazil that I would meet a "horse made of iron or bronze" who was a christian and could talk. I laughed at him contemtpuously thinking he was off his rocker (but I already paid him in advance, so I wasn't going to send him away, of course! Plus he was f*cking gorgeous!!) and he told me this bronze or iron horse would make me a millionaire in my own currency in 30 days - only if I paid this horse back the full amount plus no less than 1% interest on top of it after I invested it wisely.

 

Well, spank my donkey - or horse! - and call me Irene. I met a horse here, he is made out of iron, and he is a christian. So far so good! I hope Jesus wasn't teasing me with words as he was teasing my [censored] with his [censored]. Like I said, I didn't believe him but it's true! I am astounded with the accuracy of his prediction! I am taking it on faith! I think ironhorse here also should!

 

In a sense, Jesus has become sort of my boyfriend; he knows I will always choose him if I can and I treat him well. He says I am one of the nicest customers he's ever had and told me he wishes we could be together. Unfortunately, we live worlds apart. But if this prophesy by my sort-of-boyfriend who is so deliciously exquisite comes true, I will be going on the next flight out to Brazil to him with that money and we'll be living a decent life as boyfriends, living happily ever after!! Fingers crossed! I 'm believing! I have faith!

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Faith has no value if the entity that you have faith in is silent and makes it's intentions impossible to decipher.

 

Precisely - and that's one of the reasons I left that...forgive me for saying this..."god"-forsaken religion! Ooh, I love my mind sometimes. I do come out with some cracking corkers!

 

 

Luke 13:11-12

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

 

 

Boil

"A boil, also called a furuncle, is a deep folliculitis infection of the hair follicle. It is most commonly caused by infection by the bacterium Staphylococcus aureus, resulting in a painful swollen area on the skin caused by an accumulation of pus and dead tissue.[1] Boils which are expanded are basically pus-filled nodules.[2][verification needed] Individual boils clustered together are called carbuncles.[3] Most human infections are caused by coagulase-positive S. aureus strains, notable for the bacteria's ability to produce coagulase, an enzyme that can clot blood. Almost any organ system can be infected by S. aureus."

 

We can quote irrelevant things, as well. What's your point?

 

 

 

Luke 13:11-12

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

 

 

The Flying Spaghetti Monster would have healed her sooner and fed her pasta.  The Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't leave people suffering in order to glorify himself.

 

 

lPqD0PA.jpg

 

 

 

The flood story about faith is ridiculous.  Either the person experiencing the flood thinks faith lies in god providing him with being saved by boat, helicopter, etc, in which case god could say, "You didn't have enough faith to ride out the storm and know that I would protect you in your house," or it ends like the story does, where god gets to deride the person for not having enough faith in what was sent to him. 

 

Either way, no matter what the man chooses, he gets blamed and derided.  And by dying in the flood, once again xianity blames the victim rather than their all-knowing god.

 

QfE*

QfT**

 

 

 

 

I see, what I believe, are signs of a creator God. I see, what I believe, are answers to my questions on the meaning of life in the scriptures and in Christ. Those are the reasons of my faith.

 

And I agree, if the Christian faith is a lie, then as Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 15

"we are of all men most miserable."

On the first quote, i believed the same thing when i was deceived. The only answer the bible gives to the meaning of life is to glorify god, which the bible says we all failed to do, therefor rendering no meaning to life. How do you know the god of the bible is the true creator? If you do some digging, you will find that the god of the bible didn't show up until way later after other gods were worshipped.

 

"'Thou shalt not have other gods before me', sayeth the lord." Firstly, WtF is "thou", "shalt", and "sayeth"? English, please! Not Old English! Get with the times! Secondly, how did "god" know there were other gods? What is the bible, the Vatican, and the jews hiding? I would go into it but I think that's too off-topic, so I shan't.

 

As for the-- sorry, I mean ye Olde English, christians tend to reply, "KJV is the most accurate translation of the bible." which doesn't make sense because KJV was written many hundreds of years after jesus was supposed to have lived and died. Oh, also don't forget that from the very KJV of the bible, "god" admits it is the devil:

 

7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I the Lord do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)

 

Don't forget "god" also killed many, many millions of people whom it lied about loving.

 

Why would anyone in their right mind have faith in such a [multiple censoreds] thing?! Of course they are not in their right mind; they are not in their mind at all...

 

 

Faith is ridiculous, it is pointless, and it is stupid. I know; I used to be a christian and I used to be blind. Now I prefer to get up off my fat arse - or off my bleeding knees, rather - and actually do things. The glory is mine because I did it; no-one else did. I did.

 

 

*quoted for emphasis

**quoted for truth

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The KJV was translated and compiled 1600 years after Jesus, give or take a few years. (That's a really long time  :D  for comparison America is only about 300 years old )

 

The KJV was 'translated' into archaic English from.. the Greek and Latin translations, and prior archaic English Bible translations, from texts decided by the first Council of Nicea in 325 AD, from what I understand. 

 

For example:

 

"The King James Version (KJV), commonly known as the Authorized Version (AV) or King James Bible (KJB), is an English translation of the Christian Bible for the Church of England begun in 1604 and completed in 1611.[a]First printed by the King's Printer Robert Barker, this was the third translation into English to be approved by the English Church authorities. The first was the Great Bible commissioned in the reign of King Henry VIII (1535), and the second was the Bishops' Bible of 1568.[3] In January 1604, King James VI and I convened the Hampton Court Conference where a new English version was conceived in response to the perceived problems of the earlier translations as detected by the Puritans,[4] a faction within the Church of England.[5]"

 

and

 

"While the Authorized Version remains among the most widely sold, modern critical New Testament translations differ substantially from it in a number of passages, primarily because they rely on source manuscripts not then accessible to (or not then highly regarded by) early 17th-century Biblical scholarship.[149]In the Old Testament, there are also many differences from modern translations that are based not on manuscript differences, but on a different understanding of Ancient Hebrew vocabulary or grammar by the translators. For example, in modern translations it is clear that Job 28:1–11 is referring throughout to mining operations, which is not at all apparent from the text of the Authorized Version.[150]"

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version

 

Just sayin'

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Luke 13:11-12

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

 

 

 

Justus, what would make you think quoting scripture at non-believers would be a useful tactic? What would make you imagine that would bolster your argument? I would think it would be obvious that non-believers understand the bible as nothing but a collection of myth, legends, and folklore. It appears an unintended consequence of faith is that it produces confused delusional believers.

 

Seriously, if you are intending to make valid points the bible isn't your friend. Believers are the only ones that see the bible as a reliable source for ancient history. Non-believers see it as a fairy tale with a religious theme.

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One of the stories that somehow hooked me onto Christianity for many years was about a famous Christian man long ago who decided to set up an orphanage.  He could not afford to feed those children but he said "it doesn't matter, I'll just trust God to bring the money in."  And in mysterious ways God did bring the money in, month after month, to fund the orphanage.  The mysterious ways were by anonymous donors sending in money.  Not so mysterious after all.  As an orphan myself I should have used the magic of critical thinking to evaluate this story.  Maybe it was true.  But even if God had been overseeing the provisions for that particular man and his orphans, I know that in spite of many prayers, deprivations, and sufferings, myself and many other orphans have gone without.  Having the same faith in the same God, but still going without.  Very many orphans have died from lack of basic needs like shelter and food.  We have, at very best, an unreliable God, and one who plays favorites about helping people. 

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We have, at very best, an unreliable God, and one who plays favorites about helping people. 

I haven't. Not anymore!

 

I would like to post something I have posted on Youtube to a few people and seeing as this is the Lion's Den I think it might be OK, but I don't know how far I can go with it. So far I haven't seen anyone effing and blinding, but it does explain more than one very good argument that christians ignore and continue on regardless, blindly. In the meantime I'll share this less-obscene, similarly-related picture:

 

MElWl8x.jpg

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Guest Furball

One of the stories that somehow hooked me onto Christianity for many years was about a famous Christian man long ago who decided to set up an orphanage.  He could not afford to feed those children but he said "it doesn't matter, I'll just trust God to bring the money in."  And in mysterious ways God did bring the money in, month after month, to fund the orphanage.  The mysterious ways were by anonymous donors sending in money.  Not so mysterious after all.  As an orphan myself I should have used the magic of critical thinking to evaluate this story.  Maybe it was true.  But even if God had been overseeing the provisions for that particular man and his orphans, I know that in spite of many prayers, deprivations, and sufferings, myself and many other orphans have gone without.  Having the same faith in the same God, but still going without.  Very many orphans have died from lack of basic needs like shelter and food.  We have, at very best, an unreliable God, and one who plays favorites about helping people. 

Was that famous christian man Charles Spurgeon? oh and yeah god always gets the credit when humans do good

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Luke 13:11-12

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

 

 

Justus,

 

Please note that other Christians have had threads locked or have been banned for 'trolling' this forum with Bible passages.

 

BAA

 

 

this may seem off considering I don't believe a word these guys say or believe in any god they can conjure but isn't this subforum the exact place for them to do this.

 

We use argument, rhetoric, and logic to define our terms and what we see in their belief and in deconverting. They use faith and the words they put their faith in.

 

They are probably wrong and I would not follow the christian god if I had no choice but to pick one.

 

I guess I am asking is it not acceptable for believers here to use the versus they supposedly believe in as a tool for their arguments? Sure we can debunk them but isn't that the point and to let others struggling with deconversion see us do it an in doing so hopefully gain power over themselves to help them stop living the lie?

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We have, at very best, an unreliable God, and one who plays favorites about helping people. 

I haven't. Not anymore!

 

I would like to post something I have posted on Youtube to a few people and seeing as this is the Lion's Den I think it might be OK, but I don't know how far I can go with it. So far I haven't seen anyone effing and blinding, but it does explain more than one very good argument that christians ignore and continue on regardless, blindly. In the meantime I'll share this less-obscene, similarly-related picture:

 

MElWl8x.jpg

 

 

Pretty simple stuff. Tommy isn't a rocket scientist but he is a great poet and seems to come to reason so much easier than so many :)

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Luke 13:11-12

11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

12 And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity.

 

 

Justus,

 

Please note that other Christians have had threads locked or have been banned for 'trolling' this forum with Bible passages.

 

BAA

 

 

this may seem off considering I don't believe a word these guys say or believe in any god they can conjure but isn't this subforum the exact place for them to do this.

 

We use argument, rhetoric, and logic to define our terms and what we see in their belief and in deconverting. They use faith and the words they put their faith in.

 

They are probably wrong and I would not follow the christian god if I had no choice but to pick one.

 

I guess I am asking is it not acceptable for believers here to use the versus they supposedly believe in as a tool for their arguments? Sure we can debunk them but isn't that the point and to let others struggling with deconversion see us do it an in doing so hopefully gain power over themselves to help them stop living the lie?

 

 

 

Yes.  However Christians generally don't use scripture to make a point.  Rather they mindlessly spam.  Da words of da Lawrd never return void so I'm gonna spit them out like a machine gun!

 

Case in point: Justus cited Luke 13:11-12, an unfounded claim.  He didn't even add any commentary or explanation; just Bible verses and nothing else.  How does this unfounded claim move the conversation forward in any way except to emphasize the OP that Christians have a faith problem?

 

Believing the Bible is the Word of God is like vodka.  Go home Christianity, you're drunk.

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