Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

The Faith Problem


WarriorPoet

Recommended Posts

Guest Furball

One more thing, i am tired of hearing christians say that the kjv was let down from heaven on a golden thread by god. I have heard this many times. Uhg, even ehrman says the kjv is a corrupted version from a eusebius 1200 text

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Keeping this site online isn't free, so we need your support! Make a one-time donation or choose one of the recurrent patron options by clicking here.



 

One of the stories that somehow hooked me onto Christianity for many years was about a famous Christian man long ago who decided to set up an orphanage.  He could not afford to feed those children but he said "it doesn't matter, I'll just trust God to bring the money in."  And in mysterious ways God did bring the money in, month after month, to fund the orphanage.  The mysterious ways were by anonymous donors sending in money.  Not so mysterious after all.  As an orphan myself I should have used the magic of critical thinking to evaluate this story.  Maybe it was true.  But even if God had been overseeing the provisions for that particular man and his orphans, I know that in spite of many prayers, deprivations, and sufferings, myself and many other orphans have gone without.  Having the same faith in the same God, but still going without.  Very many orphans have died from lack of basic needs like shelter and food.  We have, at very best, an unreliable God, and one who plays favorites about helping people. 

Was that famous christian man Charles Spurgeon? oh and yeah god always gets the credit when humans do good

 

 

 

I can't speak for all donors and do-gooders. But I get a bit miffed when I do someone a favor and they go off praising Jesus for whatever I did.

 

 

One more thing, i am tired of hearing christians say that the kjv was let down from heaven on a golden thread by god. I have heard this many times. Uhg, even ehrman says the kjv is a corrupted version from a eusebius 1200 text

 

Someone told me once that all versions that are not KJV are corrupted by Satan. This includes the old papyrus versions. This includes non-English Bibles too. Non-English speakers need to learn to read the KJV of the Bible to consider themselves True Christians. They believed that god's holy hand guided the KJV translators to create the most perfect divine Bible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

You right. It is all about faith.

 

I have chosen to place my faith in Christ.

I know you have, but that isn't addressing my post at all.

 

I'll re-word what I'm asking.  How do you get around the fact that on some level, what you really have is faith in faith?  With all the different religions in the world, you have no way of knowing how to pick the right one.  That leaves you with having to have faith that your faith is correct.

 

My belief in, and acceptance of, Jesus Christ is rational in that while it's true I ultimately have faith that Christ is who He says He is, that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable. So while there are aspects of Christianity I must accept on faith it is a well founded faith. BTW - An atheist must accept oblivion after death on faith as well.
 
Here is an couple example of how I can rationally reject a whole category of deities as worthy of worship ...
 
Let's take the FSM which atheists like to trot out. I know based on science that the Creator of what we know as Physics must be outside Physics. The FSM is tritely declared as being governed by Physics; it's matter. Therefore I can dismiss such an entity, along with the pagan pantheons as not being the Creator of the universe and therefore I don't need faith to reject them as objects of worship.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sooooo… archaic English is the true language of god?

 

 

bwahahahahahahaha

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The kjv also omits 20% of the tyndale text and also removes doctrines and words

What doctrines were removed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable."

 

Please, do tell. I'd love to see this evidence which is TANGIBLE, LOGICAL and REASONABLE. You have a DUTY to share this with the world as a honest witness to your god.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

 

 

My belief in, and acceptance of, Jesus Christ is rational in that while it's true I ultimately have faith that Christ is who He says He is, that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable. 

Feel free to present your tangible evidence any time you'd like.  I remind you, this is not the first time you've claimed to have it; nor is it the first time I have asked you to present it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

We have, at very best, an unreliable God, and one who plays favorites about helping people. 

I haven't. Not anymore!

 

I would like to post something I have posted on Youtube to a few people and seeing as this is the Lion's Den I think it might be OK, but I don't know how far I can go with it. So far I haven't seen anyone effing and blinding, but it does explain more than one very good argument that christians ignore and continue on regardless, blindly. In the meantime I'll share this less-obscene, similarly-related picture:

 

If he were consistent in his convictions then Tom Petty should have left rock and roll long ago.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

My belief in, and acceptance of, Jesus Christ is rational in that while it's true I ultimately have faith that Christ is who He says He is, that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable. 

Feel free to present your tangible evidence any time you'd like.  I remind you, this is not the first time you've claimed to have it; nor is it the first time I have asked you to present it.

 

Are you familiar with the Teleological Argument? Most well versed atheists are, no?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

 

 

 

 

My belief in, and acceptance of, Jesus Christ is rational in that while it's true I ultimately have faith that Christ is who He says He is, that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable. 

Feel free to present your tangible evidence any time you'd like.  I remind you, this is not the first time you've claimed to have it; nor is it the first time I have asked you to present it.

 

Are you familiar with the Teleological Argument? Most well versed atheists are, no?

 

Is an argument tangible?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

My belief in, and acceptance of, Jesus Christ is rational in that while it's true I ultimately have faith that Christ is who He says He is, that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable. 

Feel free to present your tangible evidence any time you'd like.  I remind you, this is not the first time you've claimed to have it; nor is it the first time I have asked you to present it.

 

Are you familiar with the Teleological Argument? Most well versed atheists are, no?

 

Is an argument tangible?

 

Is an empirical claim tangible?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

 

 

 

 

 

 

My belief in, and acceptance of, Jesus Christ is rational in that while it's true I ultimately have faith that Christ is who He says He is, that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable. 

Feel free to present your tangible evidence any time you'd like.  I remind you, this is not the first time you've claimed to have it; nor is it the first time I have asked you to present it.

 

Are you familiar with the Teleological Argument? Most well versed atheists are, no?

 

Is an argument tangible?

 

Is an empirical claim tangible?

 

Have I made one?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

So far, Ordinary Clay, you are the only one to have made a claim.  You claimed to have evidence.  When called upon to present it, you want to start arguing semantics.  This is a pretty standard M.O. for you.  If you have evidence, present it; if you make a claim, support it.

 

This ain't rocket science, son.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My belief in, and acceptance of, Jesus Christ is rational in that while it's true I ultimately have faith that Christ is who He says He is, that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable. 

Feel free to present your tangible evidence any time you'd like.  I remind you, this is not the first time you've claimed to have it; nor is it the first time I have asked you to present it.

 

Are you familiar with the Teleological Argument? Most well versed atheists are, no?

 

Is an argument tangible?

 

Is an empirical claim tangible?

 

Have I made one?

 

Ah ... No, obviously not, let me explain.

 

It's generally agreed that science makes tangible claims, but yet the very bases of science is based on an intangible argument.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So far, Ordinary Clay, you are the only one to have made a claim.  You claimed to have evidence.  When called upon to present it, you want to start arguing semantics.  This is a pretty standard M.O. for you.  If you have evidence, present it; if you make a claim, support it.

 

This ain't rocket science, son.

The Teleological argument is tangible evidence in the same fashion that an argument such as an empirical argument is tangible evidence in science.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

So far, Ordinary Clay, you are the only one to have made a claim.  You claimed to have evidence.  When called upon to present it, you want to start arguing semantics.  This is a pretty standard M.O. for you.  If you have evidence, present it; if you make a claim, support it.

 

This ain't rocket science, son.

The Teleological argument is tangible evidence in the same fashion that an argument such as an empirical argument is tangible evidence in science.

 

The teleological argument does not attempt to prove a specific god.  All it does is try to argue for the existence of a designer without presenting any information as to who or what the designer is.  Even if we would concede that this argument is valid (we won't, there are is more wrong with it than just this) it still doesn't get you past the problem I laid out in my op.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OrdinaryClay...

 

My belief in, and acceptance of, Jesus Christ is rational in that while it's true I ultimately have faith that Christ is who He says He is, that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable.

.

.

.

This is false.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

My belief in, and acceptance of, Jesus Christ is rational in that while it's true I ultimately have faith that Christ is who He says He is, that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable. So while there are aspects of Christianity I must accept on faith it is a well founded faith. BTW - An atheist must accept oblivion after death on faith as well.
 
Here is an couple example of how I can rationally reject a whole category of deities as worthy of worship ...
 
Let's take the FSM which atheists like to trot out. I know based on science that the Creator of what we know as Physics must be outside Physics. The FSM is tritely declared as being governed by Physics; it's matter. Therefore I can dismiss such an entity, along with the pagan pantheons as not being the Creator of the universe and therefore I don't need faith to reject them as objects of worship.

 

 

Yet you never demonstrate that your belief is rational.  You have no evidence of any claim made by Christ let alone one about Christ's identity.  You never provide any kind of evidence.  You often misuse the words tangible, logical and reasonable.

 

Atheists do not take nonexistence on faith.  Billions of people have died in history.  There is very strong evidence for nonexistence.  Now that NDEs can be created in the laboratory we know they are not death but rather dream like in nature so there is no evidence for any alternative to nonexistence.

 

You misunderstand the FSM.  The FSM is not made of matter.  The FSM is made of the same thing as your God.  Of course the FSM can be easily dismissed.  This is to illustrate that your God is a sham.  You are an atheist to all the gods created by humans except for one.  Those branded "atheist" simply go one god further.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

So far, Ordinary Clay, you are the only one to have made a claim.  You claimed to have evidence.  When called upon to present it, you want to start arguing semantics.  This is a pretty standard M.O. for you.  If you have evidence, present it; if you make a claim, support it.

 

This ain't rocket science, son.

The Teleological argument is tangible evidence in the same fashion that an argument such as an empirical argument is tangible evidence in science.

 

The teleological argument does not attempt to prove a specific god.  All it does is try to argue for the existence of a designer without presenting any information as to who or what the designer is.  Even if we would concede that this argument is valid (we won't, there are is more wrong with it than just this) it still doesn't get you past the problem I laid out in my op.

 

No one is claiming the Teleological argument warrants all of the attributes of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but He is a designer; therefore, the Teleological argument is an item of evidence for His existence.
 
I directly addressed your question I quoted. To be honest your OP was not very clear. I quoted where you seemed to most effectively epitomize your question. I answered why the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob was the clearest answer to "which God should we have faith in?".
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Atheists do not take nonexistence on faith.  Billions of people have died in history.  There is very strong evidence for nonexistence.  Now that NDEs can be created in the laboratory we know they are not death but rather dream like in nature so there is no evidence for any alternative to nonexistence.

 

That is not evidence for nonexistence. That is evidence of ignorance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Teleological argument is false thus it is not evidence of anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You misunderstand the FSM.  The FSM is not made of matter.  The FSM is made of the same thing as your God.  Of course the FSM can be easily dismissed.  This is to illustrate that your God is a sham.  You are an atheist to all the gods created by humans except for one.  Those branded "atheist" simply go one god further.

 

Spaghetti is matter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

You misunderstand the FSM.  The FSM is not made of matter.  The FSM is made of the same thing as your God.  Of course the FSM can be easily dismissed.  This is to illustrate that your God is a sham.  You are an atheist to all the gods created by humans except for one.  Those branded "atheist" simply go one god further.

 

Spaghetti is matter. 

 

 

 

Silly believer, the FSM is not made out of spaghetti.  Rather the food we call spaghetti was made in the image of the creator of the universe.  The FSM is made of the same stuff that God is made out of.

 

That would be imagination!

 

GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

You misunderstand the FSM.  The FSM is not made of matter.  The FSM is made of the same thing as your God.  Of course the FSM can be easily dismissed.  This is to illustrate that your God is a sham.  You are an atheist to all the gods created by humans except for one.  Those branded "atheist" simply go one god further.

 

Spaghetti is matter. 

 

 

You falsely conflate the physical examples we have of spaghetti with the non-physical FSM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OrdinaryClay...

 

My belief in, and acceptance of, Jesus Christ is rational in that while it's true I ultimately have faith that Christ is who He says He is, that faith is corroborated by evidence which is tangible, logical and reasonable.

.

.

.

OrdinaryClay's statement is false because his belief in Jesus Christ is not rational.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.