Too Stupid To Know They're Stupid: The Dunning-Kruger Effect

[FreeThinkerNZ]

In order to hone my debating abilities I have been reading up on logical fallacies and psychological effects.  My latest thing is one of the latter, the Dunning-Kruger Effect.  I thought the Den crew might appreciate learning about this one too

 

 

The Dunning-Kruger effect, named after David Dunning and Justin Kruger of Cornell University, occurs where people fail to adequately assess their level of competence — or specifically, their incompetence — at a task and thus consider themselves much more competent than everyone else. This lack of awareness is attributed to their lower level of competence robbing them of the ability to critically analyse their performance, leading to a significant overestimate of themselves. Put more crudely, they're too stupid to realize they're stupid.

The inverse also applies: competent people tend to underestimate their ability compared to others; this is known asimpostor syndrome.

If you have no doubts whatsoever about your brilliance, you could just be that damn good. On the other hand...

 

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

 

BTW, some long time lurkers came into chat for the first time last night and I asked them what they thought of the discussions we have in the Den, and they said they loved them.  So keep up the good work... and lurkers, please say hello.  We don't bite, really

 

[Guest Furball]

After reading that, i just realized i am a completely stupid person. Good thing this village accepts me. 

[FreeThinkerNZ]

After reading that, i just realized i am a completely stupid person. Good thing this village accepts me. 

 

No, no and no, CC.  Stupid people don't realise they're stupid.  Demonstrably, you are not one of these people.

[sdelsolray]

One of the more difficult lessons in life, for me at least, was to know/realize when I didn't know/understand something.

[Guest Furball]

 

After reading that, i just realized i am a completely stupid person. Good thing this village accepts me. 

 

No, no and no, CC.  Stupid people don't realise they're stupid.  Demonstrably, you are not one of these people.

 

Awww, your way too kind free but thank you anyways - meowmix

[Thurisaz]

The DK effect sure explains quite a few things FTNZ: I had read about it some time ago but it got out of focus with me - thanks for the reminder

[GypsyMoon]

Ha!! Sadly so many people I know have this... Thanks FT definitely interesting.

[BrotherJosh]

I know quite a few number of people like that...

[ConsiderTheSource]

http://funnyfilez.funnypart.com/pictures/FunnyPart-com-i_see_dumb_people.jpg

[Justus]

Stupid people don't realise they're stupid.

That DK effect is just a revision of an old concept of the steps of enlightment of the conscious mind of man

 

Man begins in darkness, which is to say;

 

* Man does no know that he does not know;

 

And the first step is the awareness of his lack of knowledge.

 

* Once man obtains the conscious knowledge that he does not know, thus abtains the the level of competence of knowing that he does not know.

 

The next step of competence is reached;

 

* When man obtains the knowledge of that which did knot know.

 

Thus, man obtains the state of competence of knowing that they don't know.

 

* Since all men are 'believers', in case you disagree, please feel free to respond with the reason you believe that everyone is not a believer.

 

Since not all men have faith,I will leave it at that, but the believer does not search the matter out, nor make inquiry, nor examine, test or prove what they believe. In such, many claim the Bible says in the beginning that God created Adam and Eve, and the believers believe. Even those who reject the Gospel claim that God created Adam and Eve in the beginning.

 

Genesis 5

Verse 1: This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Verse 2: Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 

While that doesn't prove that God actually created man, it does prove that the Bible does not represent that all men originated from a single male and female named Adam & Eve .  

 

But try telling that to Christians... 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

Stupid people don't realise they're stupid.

That DK effect is just a revision of an old concept of the steps of enlightment of the conscious mind of man

 

Man begins in darkness, which is to say;

 

* Man does no know that he does not know;

 

And the first step is the awareness of his lack of knowledge.

 

* Once man obtains the conscious knowledge that he does not know, thus abtains the the level of competence of knowing that he does not know.

 

The next step of competence is reached;

 

* When man obtains the knowledge of that which did knot know.

 

Thus, man obtains the state of competence of knowing that they don't know.

 

* Since all men are 'believers', in case you disagree, please feel free to respond with the reason you believe that everyone is not a believer.

 

Since not all men have faith,I will leave it at that, but the believer does not search the matter out, nor make inquiry, nor examine, test or prove what they believe. In such, many claim the Bible says in the beginning that God created Adam and Eve, and the believers believe. Even those who reject the Gospel claim that God created Adam and Eve in the beginning.

 

Genesis 5

Verse 1: This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

Verse 2: Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 

While that doesn't prove that God actually created man, it does prove that the Bible does not represent that all men originated from a single male and female named Adam & Eve .  

 

But try telling that to Christians... 

 

How can believing what ignorant goat herders, who were too incompetent to know that they didn't understand the environment in which they lived and thus created gods to explain the unknowns, wrote in a book of myths ever lead anybody to the level of competence that allows them to know that they don't understand the environment in which they live?  This is precisely the reason that you, and many other believers, can't quite wrap your heads around evolution.

 

I think you misunderstand the DK Effect, certainly as it applies to your bible.

[StillLooking]

Profound display of Dunning Kruger effect below by Justus

 

 

 

Stupid people don't realise they're stupid.

That DK effect is just a revision of an old concept of the steps of enlightment of the conscious mind of man

Man begins in darkness, which is to say;

* Man does no know that he does not know;

And the first step is the awareness of his lack of knowledge.

* Once man obtains the conscious knowledge that he does not know, thus abtains the the level of competence of knowing that he does not know.

The next step of competence is reached;

* When man obtains the knowledge of that which did knot know.

Thus, man obtains the state of competence of knowing that they don't know.

* Since all men are 'believers', in case you disagree, please feel free to respond with the reason you believe that everyone is not a believer.

Since not all men have faith,I will leave it at that, but the believer does not search the matter out, nor make inquiry, nor examine, test or prove what they believe. In such, many claim the Bible says in the beginning that God created Adam and Eve, and the believers believe. Even those who reject the Gospel claim that God created Adam and Eve in the beginning.

Genesis 5

Verse 1: This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Verse 2: Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 

While that doesn't prove that God actually created man, it does prove that the Bible does not represent that all men originated from a single male and female named Adam & Eve .  

 

But try telling that to Christians... 

 

[mymistake]

So nice of Justus to provide an example of the DK effect in action.

[gall]

One of the more difficult lessons in life, for me at least, was to know/realize when I didn't know/understand something.

 

this is the true path towards wisdom. It is only when you can admit that you know nothing that you really are opening your mind to everything in my opinion. When we say I don't know and then seek to find the answers it is so much healthier than blindly believing in the imaginary.

[Onyx]

I know everything therefore I don't know everything! There, Dunning-Kruger and Imposter in one sentence.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I know nothing...

[Lucy]

The least skilled people act the most confident. And yet, others don't seem to realize this and they will just go with whoever acts the most confident in a situation where various people are offering their opinions. This can turn dangerous quickly under certain circumstances.

 

Don't follow the confident person who leads you down the wrong path.

 

Try to remember that when you're hiring someone to work for you. The more cocky they are about their abilities, the more likely it is they don't know what they're doing.

[mymistake]

The least skilled people act the most confident. And yet, others don't seem to realize this and they will just go with whoever acts the most confident in a situation where various people are offering their opinions. This can turn dangerous quickly under certain circumstances.

 

Don't follow the confident person who leads you down the wrong path.

 

Try to remember that when you're hiring someone to work for you. The more cocky they are about their abilities, the more likely it is they don't know what they're doing.

 

 

I just love it when a cocky, incompetent person is promoted to a position of leadership.  Invariably they reject any idea they didn't think of themselves.  They come up with a plan that is suicide.  They take it as insubordination if anybody warns them about the danger.  Then they look for somebody to blame when the crap hits the fan.

[Lucy]

 

I just love it when a cocky, incompetent person is promoted to a position of leadership.  Invariably they reject any idea they didn't think of themselves.  They come up with a plan that is suicide.  They take it as insubordination if anybody warns them about the danger.  Then they look for somebody to blame when the crap hits the fan.

 

 

I see that a lot. The cockiest people get promoted. They take credit for the work of others. They run others down. You're not allowed to tell them anything is wrong with their plan. Then when their plan fails, they blame the subordinates. If they consistently screw up they get moved into a position that's still high ranking, just with less subordinates. It's very rare for anyone to ever get demoted. To demote someone, the head manager would have to admit to themselves they shouldn't have promoted them in the first place. So that is unlikely to ever happen.

 

Peter Principle is an interesting concept. Basically in a company, people get promoted to their level of incompetency. Then they just stay there instead of being bumped down to what they were good at. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle

[VahnBlue]

I understand this but at the same it feels like it's saying I can't be a confident person and I end up slipping back into my insecurity...I don't get it.

[mymistake]

I understand this but at the same it feels like it's saying I can't be a confident person and I end up slipping back into my insecurity...I don't get it.

 

 

Confidence should mean that you have studied a field for a very long time and you have invested enough hard work that you have a decent chance of performing better than average.

 

 

It is arrogance to believe in yourself when the situation doesn't warrant such belief.  If you are out in public and somebody has a medical emergency you had better not try to give them a thracheostomy using a ball point pen when you are only going on that you once watched it on an episode of ER. 

 

In contrast, if you have gone to medical school, had nearly a decade in training, your expertise is recognized by other experts and so on then don't worry about a lack or emotional confidence.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I understand this but at the same it feels like it's saying I can't be a confident person and I end up slipping back into my insecurity...I don't get it.

 

There is a difference between being a competent person and being competent in an area of expertise.  I am competent in various areas and incompetent in others.  Knowing about the DK effect reminds me to only be confident in those areas where I am competent.   You can be a confident person in general without displaying confidence about an area in which you are incompetent.

 

Often if we have been raised in a xian home or a dysfunctional home or both, we have low self esteem/low self confidence.  By building competence in one area, then another, and so on, we can start to build our general self esteem.  You are already competent in many areas of life.  Remember that and have confidence in yourself.  We who grew up like this need to tell ourselves we are worthwhile, so we can build our own self esteem.  As we do this, it shows, and other people treat us better.  It becomes a positive cycle.

[StillLooking]

I understand this but at the same it feels like it's saying I can't be a confident person and I end up slipping back into my insecurity...I don't get it.

 

There is a thin line between humility and insecurity.

It is confidence and humility when I make a decision after information gathering and entertaining even the ideas I don't agree with, even if I am a novice. Confidence will bear humility too when I can admit my previous conclusion is wrong in light of new information.

 

It is insecurity when I can't voice my ideas because I am afraid of other people's judgement. If you have done the research and the critical thinking, you should be confident to voice your opinion. However, you should keep in your mind that you might be wrong so that you always judge both new ideas and your thought at the same time. However from my experience, most of the time people either judge only new ideas (being cocky) or only their thought (being insecure). I also include myself here.

[VahnBlue]

 

 

I understand this but at the same it feels like it's saying I can't be a confident person and I end up slipping back into my insecurity...I don't get it.

There is a difference between being a competent person and being competent in an area of expertise. I am competent in various areas and incompetent in others. Knowing about the DK effect reminds me to only be confident in those areas where I am competent. You can be a confident person in general without displaying confidence about an area in which you are incompetent.

 

Often if we have been raised in a xian home or a dysfunctional home or both, we have low self esteem/low self confidence. By building competence in one area, then another, and so on, we can start to build our general self esteem. You are already competent in many areas of life. Remember that and have confidence in yourself. We who grew up like this need to tell ourselves we are worthwhile, so we can build our own self esteem. As we do this, it shows, and other people treat us better. It becomes a positive cycle.

Thank you for that. I appreciate it. All of you.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Is this the same as me thinking I'm good at sex but the girl walks away upset. Or thinking I'm bad at sex and girl walks away with a big smile and a broken hip?