themonkeyman Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hey folks was reading the gnostic bible and well what the hell is actually hell. From all the scriptures I've read here is my definition so far. Hell is a lake and a darkness and a cramped space and a house thats on fire. Unbelievers do and don't go there our bodies go there including/not including our souls. God is and is not present. We willingly sent ourselves there/ we did not send ourselves there. God does/does not rule over it. Its like Tarturus/Hades/Gehenna and not them. It is and is not a lake of fire. Sound accurate enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonkeyman Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 Also according to enoch. It does / does not have 7 levels and we get punished for our crimes with no lake of fire oddly though an Enochian Hell is literally If you blaspheme u get hung by your tounge. If you love money you stand in shit. If you look down at people u get chased up a hill by an Angel? Pushed over then do it all again. Same again for greed but also with a boulder. If you have an abortion ur unborn child punishes you. If you have a wank u get hung by your balls. Like seriously lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenWolf Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Just goes to prove how contradicting the Bible is. Christians claim it's perfect and never contradicts! They obviously have never read their own Bible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Welcome to the truth about the bible. It's all about the "which is it" game. Contradictions galore. But according to the non-humans (christians), there are no contradictions, only paradoxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeCycle Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hell and its seemingly inherent existence based on Christianity, with no real discussion on exactly what this place is within the bible really set me on the path to atheism. There's no grand introduction by God/Jesus... It's just like, it doesn't exist, there's no mention of it and then it exist? Wait? Where did that happen and why? Jesus seemingly talks about it but not really because the place he mentions is a real, physical place on earth. No honest, compassionate god would be so sketchy. But above that, no loving god would create such a place. It's just so sickening that people believe it all... And that a good god is behind it all. It's a mental disorder to think that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Even nowadays christians themselves are changing their mind about the reality of hell. Who cares, if i am going to hell for simply being human then god is a sadistic serial killer, not good or loving as christians would get you to believe. Monkeyman you should read the apocalypse of peter for an even more bizarre look at hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonkeyman Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 Read it tbh the early church must have had nothing better to do than to fabricate text. Heck we also only have 3 critics. Julian, celsus and prophyry. I'd also guess there were other critics wood works were burned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will02 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Gehenna, is the Greek transliteration that means "valley of Hinnom," it was a place where idolaters sacrificed children to Moloch, God then cursed the land and said it would be "valley of slaughter." It gets even more complicated than that. I've been doing some research lately and I read that Biblegod (Yahweh) and Molech were the same thing at one point. Apparently, the Yahweh priests decided to separate the two aspects for some reason and it has been like that ever since. Parts of the old fusion still exist in the bible, like the glowing fireball thing god appeared as in the "when Abraham made his covenant " story and the giant pillar of fire in the exodus story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'd also guess there were other critics wood works were burned Well yeah they don't want you to find out the real truth behind their scam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Gehenna, is the Greek transliteration that means "valley of Hinnom," it was a place where idolaters sacrificed children to Moloch, God then cursed the land and said it would be "valley of slaughter." It gets even more complicated than that. I've been doing some research lately and I read that Biblegod (Yahweh) and Molech were the same thing at one point. I have never heard this, where did you read this? If you could provide a link, i would be grateful. Thanks -CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will02 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I've been reading The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets by Barbara Walker. That bit of knowledge (plus much, much more) is in there and yes, she cites her sources. That book may be written for women but as a man I got a hell of a lot out of it. I was browsing the internet one day and someone's forum post lead me to it. I read a little bit and really got into it. It's massive-- I just finished it last week and I'd been reading a little at a time for about 4-5 months. It's (apparently) out of copyright for some reason despite being written in the 1980s so the full text is available on Archive.org (I doubt they would host it otherwise). I'm reluctant to do a direct link due to all the DMCA bullshit but do a Google search for a PDF and you'll find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ah yes. 1 Kings 13:1-2 King Josiah is going to offer up a human sacrifice. 2 Kings 23:20-25 Josiah kills people and burns them on an alter. God is pleased. Lev 27:28-29 Humans vowed to the Lord cannot be redeemed and must be put to death. Judges 11: 29-40 Jephthah sacrificed his daughter in a burnt offering to the Lord. Deut 13:13-19 Destroy entire towns (as long as they converted to follow foreign gods) so the entire population is butchered as a burnt offering to God. Gen 22:1-18 Abraham is commanded to sacrifice his son and this all seems perfectly normal to Abraham. Sounds like Molech to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will02 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Gehenna, is the Greek transliteration that means "valley of Hinnom," it was a place where idolaters sacrificed children to Moloch, God then cursed the land and said it would be "valley of slaughter." It gets even more complicated than that. I've been doing some research lately and I read that Biblegod (Yahweh) and Molech were the same thing at one point. Apparently, the Yahweh priests decided to separate the two aspects for some reason and it has been like that ever since. Parts of the old fusion still exist in the bible, like the glowing fireball thing god appeared as in the "when Abraham made his covenant " story and the giant pillar of fire in the exodus story. I definitely have no idea what you're talking about here, unless you're drawing a connection on fire alone. The first time Moloch is mentioned in the Bible is Leviticus 18:21 "You shall not give any of your children to offer them to Molech, and so profane the name of your God: I am the LORD." It seems that from the get go, there is a clear distinction made, and a prohibition against worshiping Molech (or Moloch) which is expressed through child sacrifice. Well, I just remember reading about that somewhere in that book I mentioned higher up in the thread. For the most part, the author seems to know what she's talking about. The other part about the fire connection between Yahweh and Molech was in there too, (I think somewhere near the back) because I remember reading that bit fairly recently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 The Bible teaches multiple things about this it would appear. Gehenna, is the Greek transliteration that means "valley of Hinnom," it was a place where idolaters sacrificed children to Moloch, God then cursed the land and said it would be "valley of slaughter." In the New Testament, Jesus is the only one that references Gehenna specifically, and it's unclear if a person remains there in torment (Matthew 25:46), or completely destroyed (Matthew 10:28). What the place is said to be like is also unclear, as it is only in metaphorical terms. If you read Gnostic texts then you'll end up even more confused. Haha Hope this helps, TS Good point, and I must say that the extensive knowledge of the Bible which you mentioned in the other thread certainly shows. Hope you don't mind if I play the nitpicker though. The word "hell" (referring to gehenna) is mentioned 13 times, 12 are from the lips of Jesus. The thirteenth is from James, " And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell." (James 3:6). Strangely this is the only use of the word hell in the Bible that I agree with. Unlike you I can't read the Bible in its original languages. There are translations, however, which render the words for hell distinctly (in fact these are meant to be separate words, and only more modern English translations such as the 1611 KJV subsume them as one). In the Old Testament sheol is used to refer to "the grave," i.e. a general term for death. In the New Testament we of course have gehenna, where the Israelites practiced child sacrifice and where people in Jesus' time would burn trash outside of the city. There is also "hades," which refers to the Greek concept of the afterlife and is roughly synonymous with hades. Or, at least, when New Testament authors quote Old Testament passages which use the word sheol, they render it hades. Finally, there is the curious usage of the word tartarus in 2 Peter 2:4. Peter uses it to refer to a place of judgment where God jails disobedient angels who sinned. To me this seems like a very Greek concept with a strong parallel to the mythology of the Greeks. According to Greek literature such as the Iliad, tartarus is a place far beneath the realm of Hades where Zeus imprisoned his father and the rest of the titans after defeating them. Unlike Western European Christian culture, Greeks did not believe that good people went to heaven while bad people went to hell. They believed that everyone goes to Hades' domain upon death, except for a select few from their mythology who curried favor with Zeus and were given a place in the Elysian Fields, and an equally select few mythological figures who committed such atrocious offenses against the gods as to earn eternal torment. From Paul's writings I would say there's a general thread throughout the Bible suggesting that non-Christians are eternally condemned. But it is clear that the New Testament authors drew heavily from the mythology of their time. Perhaps even more so than they did from the religion of Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 There actually is no reliable evidence to indicate that there was some kind of perpetual burning garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. No archaeological evidence, and the first reference came from a Jewish Rabbi named David Kimhi in the late 12th Century. Now, it's a popular commentary reference for fire and brimstone preachers. Gehenna in terms of judgment though would have most related to Isaiah 64, where God had defeated Israel's enemies and their corpses burned perpetually. I didn't know that! Cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 There actually is no reliable evidence to indicate that there was some kind of perpetual burning garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. No archaeological evidence, and the first reference came from a Jewish Rabbi named David Kimhi in the late 12th Century. Now, it's a popular commentary reference for fire and brimstone preachers. Gehenna in terms of judgment though would have most related to Isaiah 64, where God had defeated Israel's enemies and their corpses burned perpetually. I didn't know that! Cool. Nor did I. I read this explanation first from a non-Christian scholar, and have thus always assumed it true. Good to know it isn't universally accepted among historians who specialize in this era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 And all of the above is the second main reason I quit taking xianity seriously. If an all-knowing, all-powerful, omniscient god can't make sure that a clear, concise, understandable account of what is expected of us while we're alive, and what we can expect when we die, then I can't take an old book of stories passed down from person to person for years, then written and rewritten by humans, then translated from other languages seriously. If god didn't take his side of the equation seriously (giving us a clear, concise manual), then I can't believe in its existence and take the "god" concept seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts