NoOne Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I know I've been posting a lot, and I have a feeling a lot of people are going to get sick of me very quickly. And I apologize for that, but this is really the only platform I have to talk about these things So I was literally just wishing dishes and painting my toenails (yeah at the same time...#skill) about 10 minutes ago, while thinking about Christianity. It's been on my mind a lot, I don't know if that's because of guilt, worry, or anger. But I was thinking about all the concepts or ideas within the religion, and I realize, a lot of them contradict each other. And believe it or not, it kind of surprised me because the key components to the belief system itself don't even go together. For example, God's plan contradicts the concept of free will. If God already has already planned our lives out for us, then how could we have a choice? And if we have daily choices that impact our futures, how can God plan our lives out? Free will contradicts the concept of a hell, because if God gave you total power to chose if you believed in Him or not and He had no power or desire to change the decision for the choice He gave you...why would He punish you? Because you chose the one He didn't want, but then why even be given a choice in the first place? Another thing is the idea of Christian love and open rebuke. Rebuking your neighbor when they did something "wrong" is good but you can't really yell or freak out on somebody in a loving fashion. You could express your views on their lifestyle, but that's not as good as good ole honest rebuking? Also, if someone is gay (I'm sorry I keep talking about gay people, I know it's getting annoying; it's just an example for this situation) and you tell them that they're going to hell, that's not loving. There's really no way around that, no matter if it's honest or in alignment with God's word. But if you treat them with compassion, you're not being honest with them because you're not lecturing them about their lifestyle and salvation. Prayer and God's will also contradict because if you pray you're messing with God's plan, it's kind of the same as free will and God's plan. The idea of tithing in church contradicts the whole "money is the root of all problems" verse. Okay, so I'm just going on here. But you see what I mean?I think I'm going to get a lot of "wow you really think things through/you think too much" followed by a request for me to worry about something else, because that's usually what I get when I talk about things like this lol. But honestly, when so many concepts in Christianity blatantly contradict on this, how can you believe it still? What is your take on this? Happy Monday <3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Short answer - lack of time. I'm impressed at your multi-tasking abilities... Yes - many contradictions. And about 2000 years worth of apologists trying to work out how they were never contradictions in the first place. Keep thinking - and also keep a weather eye on the mental gymnastics of the apologists. Recently I heard a preacher express the hope that describing the "nonsense view" that god in the old testament was genocidal would not shock the congregation too much. Presumably he would claim that slaughtering entire nations was an act of love. Faced with that mindset, you see the value of reaching your own independent-minded assessment 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The bible contradicts itself from start to finish. There is simply way too many contradictions and discrepancies to list here. The reason people keep believing it is because they have been brainwashed over and over every sunday for years that the bible is "literally" the word of god and they are convinced that the book they hold in their hands is based in reality and based on absolute truth. They are told not to question it as they will burn in hell forever if they do. They also keep believing it because they are told that there is a spiritual reality that they cannot see, but according to the bible is really there. If you were to take away all the contradictions, and discrepancies and the fact that there is absolutely -0- evidence, reality alone would disprove the bible To the sane person the bible is filled with contradictions/to the insane person the bible is filled with paradoxes If logic and reason are enemies to faith - then reality is the enemy to the bible If the bible were true, then whence all the apologists and theologists? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonkeyman Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'll write more tomorrow but honestly most people only see parts of the Bible that the pastor shows them. The best writer in the NT is Paul as he was an apologist notice how pastors only really teach Pauline Christianity and not that of the ebbonites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarflungWanderer Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 First: Goth, no fear, we're not gonna tire of you. Second: The issue of paradoxes and contradictions in the Bible is one apologists try their best to gloss over. When you're "in the faith", you tend to do the same: It's a more stable thought process. Drop that, though, and you begin to realize how flawed it all is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorPoet Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Christianity can be defined as that which the christian doing the defining believes. That's it. Everything that contradicts the beliefs of any given believer is ignored by that believer. This is one reason why there are roughly 38,000 different christian denominations. The bible is the great book of multiple choice. A christian can pick and choose pieces and parts of it do back up anything that they want to believe. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I know I've been posting a lot, and I have a feeling a lot of people are going to get sick of me very quickly. And I apologize for that, but this is really the only platform I have to talk about these things So I was literally just wishing dishes and painting my toenails (yeah at the same time...#skill) about 10 minutes ago, while thinking about Christianity. It's been on my mind a lot, I don't know if that's because of guilt, worry, or anger. But I was thinking about all the concepts or ideas within the religion, and I realize, a lot of them contradict each other. And believe it or not, it kind of surprised me because the key components to the belief system itself don't even go together. For example, God's plan contradicts the concept of free will. If God already has already planned our lives out for us, then how could we have a choice? And if we have daily choices that impact our futures, how can God plan our lives out? Free will contradicts the concept of a hell, because if God gave you total power to chose if you believed in Him or not and He had no power or desire to change the decision for the choice He gave you...why would He punish you? Because you chose the one He didn't want, but then why even be given a choice in the first place? Another thing is the idea of Christian love and open rebuke. Rebuking your neighbor when they did something "wrong" is good but you can't really yell or freak out on somebody in a loving fashion. You could express your views on their lifestyle, but that's not as good as good ole honest rebuking? Also, if someone is gay (I'm sorry I keep talking about gay people, I know it's getting annoying; it's just an example for this situation) and you tell them that they're going to hell, that's not loving. There's really no way around that, no matter if it's honest or in alignment with God's word. But if you treat them with compassion, you're not being honest with them because you're not lecturing them about their lifestyle and salvation. Prayer and God's will also contradict because if you pray you're messing with God's plan, it's kind of the same as free will and God's plan. The idea of tithing in church contradicts the whole "money is the root of all problems" verse. Okay, so I'm just going on here. But you see what I mean? I think I'm going to get a lot of "wow you really think things through/you think too much" followed by a request for me to worry about something else, because that's usually what I get when I talk about things like this lol. But honestly, when so many concepts in Christianity blatantly contradict on this, how can you believe it still? What is your take on this? Happy Monday <3 You ask good questions. Honest questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I know I've been posting a lot, and I have a feeling a lot of people are going to get sick of me very quickly. And I apologize for that, but this is really the only platform I have to talk about these things I can't imagine being sick of you. You look like you are going to fit around here just fine. It's nice to have you. You have a good handle on Christian theology. You are thinking for yourself. You've found your way out of the trap. Kudos to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven77 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Questions deserve answers. And I'm the type of woman that enjoys spinning her own wheels from time to time. So here ya go. If God already has already planned our lives out for us, then how could we have a choice? I never thought that God created us according to some masterful plan, carefully laying out every second of our lives and all that. God is not some teenager with a bad attitude playing the Sims. No, that'd be far too easy for this so-called supreme being. He decided to code something called Free Will, expecting that his creations would use this power to do his will. Or something like that, fwiw. Of course, there was this whole Sin program that he created too. Running them concurrently made the game challenging at first, but eventually, the creations rebelled and God lost it. Murdered his son and all of that. His creations have went off the rails too. We all have choices to make in this life. Most choose God out of fear. They simply cannot fathom a life apart from the bullshit fairy tales that were impressed upon their minds in their youth. A few think that they've found some new "authentic" version of the faith that is special and true and they go around blaming everything on sin and such. Please note that these types are almost always the ones who claim that Free Will is evil, that Man is Fallen and that Jesus Is The Answer....blaaaaaaaah. And if we have daily choices that impact our futures, how can God plan our lives out? God is in your head. Literally. God exists in your mind and is manifestation of your conscious. Nothing more, nothing less. Your choices can, will and do impact your future. Believers give God the credit for the decisions that they make. Glory, etc. Truth is, God had zip to do with all of the choices that they made that led them to their testimony on the big stage. It was all them and the people around them, the opportunities given, the roads taken, the choices made, the accomplishments celebrated. Free will contradicts the concept of a hell, because if God gave you total power to chose if you believed in Him or not and He had no power or desire to change the decision for the choice He gave you...why would He punish you? Not all versions of Christianity teach and preach a literal hell. Or even a conceptual one. My former church did not teach the doctrine of Hell. We were adherents to the "eternal separation" line. Eternal separation was not a punishment. It was viewed as a choice that an individual made when they rejected God and refused to accept his ghastly sacrifice for their sins. More traditional churches do teach and preach a literal or conceptual hell. The threat of burning alive outside of time is a real threat, no matter how benignly packaged by the man behind the pulpit. If you reject God, you've made a choice and to those types, you've chosen to burn. You've been warned! Because you chose the one He didn't want, but then why even be given a choice in the first place? Coerced belief is better than forced belief, but life-altering decisions are always best made under the duress of eternal Stockholm Syndrome don't cha know? There is no logic in Christianity, my dear Goth. Another thing is the idea of Christian love and open rebuke. Rebuking your neighbor when they did something "wrong" is good but you can't really yell or freak out on somebody in a loving fashion. You could express your views on their lifestyle, but that's not as good as good ole honest rebuking? To rebuke someone means : to express sharp disapproval or criticism of (someone) because of their behavior or actions. Surely you jest when say that modern believers do not rebuke anyone to their face? As a lesbian, I have faced my fair share of condemnation from the community of faith. I have been rebuked. Now, you can argue that one cannot be rebuked in a loving fashion. I'd say that is not entirely accurate. Most believers rebuke fellow believers on a regular basis. If you asked them why, they will feed you lines about "being a light in a fallen world" or "showing God's love" or some other such thing. Really, it's all about issuing backhanded excuses for why they are petty self-righteous shit-talkers and sometimes narrow-minded and ignorant to boot. Prayer and God's will also contradict because if you pray you're messing with God's plan, it's kind of the same as free will and God's plan. God lives in your head Prayer is talking to God. Therefore, prayer is talking to yourself. Or mental masturbation. Take your pick. Most of the time when a person prays, they are asking for things to go their way. They are usually asking for the world to conform to their vision, for blessings and rewards to be bestowed upon them, for them and their loved ones to be healed, etc. It's not really about having a relationship with God or Jesus or whatever. It's about doing something that makes them feel better about being unexceptional mouth-breathing space-taking sheeple with little in the way of personality, talent, or common sense. With few outlets for the stress, tension and emotion in their lives (because all of the fun stuff like drinking, drugs, sex and masturbation is banned or strongly prohibited in the Christian-o-verse), they make do with beating their Bibles and talking to themselves about the way they'd like things to be. Praying makes people feel better about doing what they want to do anyway. Or at least that's my experience with it. The idea of tithing in church contradicts the whole "money is the root of all problems" verse. If money is the root of all evil and the church relies upon on the monetary support of the body, then the institutions of faith are themselves evil. Whoaaaaaa. Jesus was a leech and he preached a message that was to his own benefit. This is why a portion of preachers and pastors are actually grifters of the highest order. You'll never hear that in church, but that's the truth. Jesus sought the widows, the tax collectors, the prostitutes...not because they were low on the totem pole, but because they often had access to wealth and were willing to part with it if they liked what a particular street preacher or rabbi had to say. Jesus and Paul supported themselves with church ministry. They had every reason to tell people to give the church money, because those people were actually PAYING THEM. So if money was the root of all evil, wtf were they so obsessed with it? Oh riiiiiight, it was because the whole story was made up. Any sect that eschews wealth is unlikely to be successful. Money talks and bullshit walks. You can walk around for awhile talking shit, but eventually you need money to live. Plus money can gain you access to the true seats of power in society. Just look at the governments of the US and UK if you need secular proof of this concept. Movements survive and thrive when they align themselves with the powerful, which is precisely why Paul was all about 'rendering to Caesar'. ------------------- That's all I have tonight. Hope I answered some of your questions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonkeyman Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hey Well the bible NT itself was written by many authors over a 200 year period. Other books were added that were completely fake but borrowed from an original source to give authenticity. Think brother jeffs bible. Now the problem here is that each writer had a different reason to interpret or word things a certain way. Before 320 AD there was no single source of writings so lots of mythical stuff was added in stand alone works. Now back then there are 3 known critics. celsus, prophyry, and Julian the Great. Although most of their writings ate lost due to the church burning them the parts that survive ate impressive. They speak of Jesus learning saucery in Egypt. Jesus dad being Ben Pantera not Joseph. Mary being a prostitute. And even comparing the bible with fact. Celsus says ' Christians change their holy books in face of criticism as if they were drunk' Hence why christianity looks some what cohesive. I am certain there was other literature but the church by 200 AD became powerful thanks to constantine so most was burned as well as books that ran at odds with the bible. Think Gravity or the works of hypatia. Definitely watch agora to see christianity run against science. Of course we had other spectacular people such as Mathias and Appolonus who did the same tricks as jesus. From what I've read according to the Jews miracle workers were a dime a dozen. Heck even celsus said is it not strange how Jesus never did tricks in his home town. Celsus also credits christianitys rise to it being taught to beggars, children and women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 27, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted January 27, 2015 Since you're clearly adept at multi-tasking, here's something for you to review during your next mani-pedi: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/08/19/an-incredible-interactive-chart-of-biblical-contradictions/ http://www.project-reason.org/bibleContra_big.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The jesus learned sorcery in egypt is a myth. There is a gap when jesus and his parents fled into egypt and when he shows up as an adult all of a sudden. I looked all over the internet and found nothing at all about the jesus learned sorcery in egypt theory, except a few people stating that it was just a guess on other people's part. I did however come across this website, take a look if you want. Jesus fake, debunking Jesus, historicity of Jesus, Atrott's Service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Updated - link to whether jesus was a sorcerer in egypt before his arrival in bible land Yeshu ben Pantera, page 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonkeyman Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Check Celsus and Julian the Great there works speak of it in great detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
older Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Hi GirlyGoth: What you've written is a big part of our reasons for being here. When thinking about Christianity, I like the term, "preposterous." I recall someone here writing about his or her adventures in a Bible study class after deconverting. He or she (I can't remember) kept raising the kinds of questions you raise, citing specific Bible verses. Fortunately, this person was more knowledgeable about the Bible than the folks in the class. Of course, the class couldn't come up with answers and, after two or three of these sessions, the writer was invited not to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Check Celsus and Julian the Great there works speak of it in great detail thanks for the help, much appreciated -peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts