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Goodbye Jesus

Which Is The Right Christianity?


R. S. Martin

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FROM http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm

 

Rumour has it there's over thirty thousand different kinds of Christian denominations. Now I found the sources and it's totally bewildering. At that link are listed hundreds of denominations worldwide to choose from--so many names I never heard. And I'm sure every single one claims to be the last word on god's revealed will to man. The diagram below shows the main trends and timeline how they developed, also from that links.

 

34hw5tz.png

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And keep in mind the Religious Right political movement is a very recent thing.  For most of Christian history the different branches of Christianity hated each other and sometimes would even wage war or kill each other.

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The RCs don't hold in progressive revelation in the sense that the Bible could be added to.  They don't hold that a papal statement made ex cathedra is a new revelation.  They do hold that the HS guides the Church into deeper stages of understanding the original revelation of the Word in Jesus Christ, to which scripture is the primary but not only witness.  So they're like the Mormons in that they have an authority that makes binding judgments about interpretation, but they don't call these new "revelations."

 

Catholics do hold that there can be private revelations.  And some of these are made to more than one person at a time, as for instance some of the appearances of the BVM.  But the content of what is reported by the person who claims revelation must always be subject to the judgment of the hierarchy.  That's how they got Joan of Arc.

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They didn't include the gnostics..  :(

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I think the 30,000 estimate, and I've seen some as high as 40,000, refers to versions and sects of Christianity that have been identified since its inception. I don't think that figure refers to denominations per se. I would assume such large numbers would include sects with minute differences.

 

The number doesn't really matter the larger point is that Christians don't agree on what is and is not scriptural. I was fortunate enough to be a member of the one true Church that Jesus created personally on the day of Pentecost. I know that is true because they told me that over and over for my entire twenty seven year tenure with them. It sometimes made me sad to acknowledge that I was saved but all those other mislead pretend Christians in denominations were going to hell.

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where-our-movement-came-along-and-we-fin

 

 

Just saying . . . 

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I love that graph of church history. It's really simplified, but still it gets the gist across.

 

I always love that "claimed lineage" that Restorationist groups claim. No such thing, no "remnant church", but hey, whatever floats your boat...

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I was fortunate enough to be a member of the one true Church that Jesus created personally on the day of Pentecost. I know that is true because they told me that over and over for my entire twenty seven year tenure with them. It sometimes made me sad to acknowledge that I was saved but all those other mislead pretend Christians in denominations were going to hell.

Sorry, Geezer, but unless you were Assemblies of God, then you weren't a member of the one true church that jesus created personally on the day of pentecost.  You were one of those other misled pretend christians who were going to hell.  ;)

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I was fortunate enough to be a member of the one true Church that Jesus created personally on the day of Pentecost. I know that is true because they told me that over and over for my entire twenty seven year tenure with them. It sometimes made me sad to acknowledge that I was saved but all those other mislead pretend Christians in denominations were going to hell.

Sorry, Geezer, but unless you were Assemblies of God, then you weren't a member of the one true church that jesus created personally on the day of pentecost.  You were one of those other misled pretend christians who were going to hell.  wink.png

 

 

 

So sorry to burst your bubble Professor, but to be the one true church you have to follow the bible literally and precisely. Every teaching, belief, and tradition must be based on scripture. Call bible things by bible names bro. 

 

The name Church of Christ is scriptural. Romans 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send greetings. The name Church of Christ is in scripture. It is the name Jesus personally gave to his churches. Assemblies of God, not so much. It's Jesus church not God's. God might be the overseer, that trinity thing, but it ain't his church cause Jesus said it was his. God gave the Kingdom (the Church) to Jesus. 

 

Come on Professor. I am surprised, no shocked, that a scholar like you didn't know that. Them Assemblies folks did a number on you bro. They deceived you and that is why you slipped through the cracks. 

 

Yeah, I figure you're going to point out that the Apostle Paul sometimes supposedly used the term church of God, but that was a translation error. Paul didn't actually say that. Seriously he never did say that. And church of God sure ain't nothing like Assemblies of God and if that term is in the bible that's a translation error too, cause I was taught Church of Christ is the one and only true name of the church Jesus created. And the people that taught me that went to college so they know that's true.

 

Checkmate, end of discussion.

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Guest Furball

Hey R.S. - Thanks for posting that graph, it was a learning experience. I wish other christians could see that and realise just how their religion has (de)evolved over time. What a sham christianity is. There is no one true religion, but to don't tell that to them, they hate evidence and reality. -boosh

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That graphic is way too simplistic as it doesn't show how divided the early church was on topics such as;

  • Jesus' divinity
  • Mary's virginity
  • Trinity
  • Who God was / wasn't, how many of him there were?
  • ...

I know it's not meant to be accurate, but it implies that all Christians agreed until 431 which is most certainly NOT the case. Even remotely.

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I was fortunate enough to be a member of the one true Church that Jesus created personally on the day of Pentecost. I know that is true because they told me that over and over for my entire twenty seven year tenure with them. It sometimes made me sad to acknowledge that I was saved but all those other mislead pretend Christians in denominations were going to hell.

Sorry, Geezer, but unless you were Assemblies of God, then you weren't a member of the one true church that jesus created personally on the day of pentecost.  You were one of those other misled pretend christians who were going to hell.  wink.png

 

 

 

So sorry to burst your bubble Professor, but to be the one true church you have to follow the bible literally and precisely. Every teaching, belief, and tradition must be based on scripture. Call bible things by bible names bro. 

 

The name Church of Christ is scriptural. Romans 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send greetings. The name Church of Christ is in scripture. It is the name Jesus personally gave to his churches. Assemblies of God, not so much. It's Jesus church not God's. God might be the overseer, that trinity thing, but it ain't his church cause Jesus said it was his. God gave the Kingdom (the Church) to Jesus. 

 

Come on Professor. I am surprised, no shocked, that a scholar like you didn't know that. Them Assemblies folks did a number on you bro. They deceived you and that is why you slipped through the cracks. 

 

Yeah, I figure you're going to point out that the Apostle Paul sometimes supposedly used the term church of God, but that was a translation error. Paul didn't actually say that. Seriously he never did say that. And church of God sure ain't nothing like Assemblies of God and if that term is in the bible that's a translation error too, cause I was taught Church of Christ is the one and only true name of the church Jesus created. And the people that taught me that went to college so they know that's true.

 

Checkmate, end of discussion.

 

Diplomacy has failed.  I call for a holy war.  Kill the heretics and blasphemers!

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They didn't include the gnostics..  sad.png

 

Look further. I saw gnostics at least once in those lists, some more than once. He makes a number of different categories and not every name is on every list. 

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Redneck Professor said, "Diplomacy has failed.  I call for a holy war.  Kill the heretics and blasphemers!"

 

If we do that I don't think there will be anybody left and religion will no longer exist. Would that be a bad thing?

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I think the 30,000 estimate, and I've seen some as high as 40,000, refers to versions and sects of Christianity that have been identified since its inception. I don't think that figure refers to denominations per se. I would assume such large numbers would include sects with minute differences.

 

 

 

If you look at the link, you will see how the stats are calculated...I'll copy a few bits here but can't copy everything for copyright rules. 

 

The source for this website's information is: World Christian Encyclopedia by Barrett, Kurian, Johnson (Oxford Univ Press, 2nd edition, 2001).

 

Citing Barrett et al, volume 1, page 16, Table 1-5, the website says: A denomination is defined in this Encyclopedia as an organized aggregate of worship centers or congregations of similar ecclesiastical tradition within a specific country....

 

The quote goes on to clarify further. I can't figure out exactly what it all means. I don't think Catholics in Canada are considered separate from Catholics in the United States, for example, yet one could almost understand it that way. Maybe if you look at all the names on all the lists on this website you can figure it out. I wasn't smart enough but all I know really well is certain kinds of Mennonite and they're not listed.

 

The thing is, I grew up in a neighbourhood with at least four different Mennonite denominations on half a dozen farms. We were so similar that outsiders could not tell the difference but we would never have fellowshipped with each other. I'm thinking if this is representative of all Christian groups and denominations, then 33,000 is probably a very conservative number. 

 

he number doesn't really matter the larger point is that Christians don't agree on what is and is not scriptural. I was fortunate enough to be a member of the one true Church that Jesus created personally on the day of Pentecost. I know that is true because they told me that over and over for my entire twenty seven year tenure with them. It sometimes made me sad to acknowledge that I was saved but all those other mislead pretend Christians in denominations were going to hell.

 

 

LOL! Sorry to disillusion you but you were *lied to* all those years.

 

I realize you were joking to make a point and so am I. yelrotflmao.gif

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The OP raises a very apt question.

And a related question is,

"What is the right ex-Christianity?"

 

I think that's a non-question.  The beauty of the intellectual freedom we call ex-xianity is that each person is able, and encouraged, to reach their own understanding.  There is no need for one ex-xianity.  

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Redneck Professor said, "Diplomacy has failed.  I call for a holy war.  Kill the heretics and blasphemers!"

 

If we do that I don't think there will be anybody left and religion will no longer exist. Would that be a bad thing?

Not really.

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RS Martin said:

 

 

I'm thinking if this is representative of all Christian groups and denominations, then 33,000 is probably a very conservative number. 

 

I agree.  Just in my own town there are Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Catholics, Anglicans, AoG, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses but there are many more that consist of just that individual church of 100 people or so.  Then there are the families where the Dad decides the doctrine, down to individuals who decide their own.

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I was fortunate enough to be a member of the one true Church that Jesus created personally on the day of Pentecost. I know that is true because they told me that over and over for my entire twenty seven year tenure with them. It sometimes made me sad to acknowledge that I was saved but all those other mislead pretend Christians in denominations were going to hell.

Sorry, Geezer, but unless you were Assemblies of God, then you weren't a member of the one true church that jesus created personally on the day of pentecost.  You were one of those other misled pretend christians who were going to hell.  wink.png

 

 

Whoa there, Prof! The only ones who really got it right was my group of horse and buggy Mennonites. Just talk to my Dad. Well, that worked until he died. Now you can talk to his neighbours and ministers. They'll know it, too.

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I was fortunate enough to be a member of the one true Church that Jesus created personally on the day of Pentecost. I know that is true because they told me that over and over for my entire twenty seven year tenure with them. It sometimes made me sad to acknowledge that I was saved but all those other mislead pretend Christians in denominations were going to hell.

Sorry, Geezer, but unless you were Assemblies of God, then you weren't a member of the one true church that jesus created personally on the day of pentecost.  You were one of those other misled pretend christians who were going to hell.  wink.png

 

 

Whoa there, Prof! The only ones who really got it right was my group of horse and buggy Mennonites. Just talk to my Dad. Well, that worked until he died. Now you can talk to his neighbours and ministers. They'll know it, too.

 

Great!  Now I'm fighting a holy war on two fronts.

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That graphic is way too simplistic as it doesn't show how divided the early church was on topics such as;

  • Jesus' divinity
  • Mary's virginity
  • Trinity
  • Who God was / wasn't, how many of him there were?
  • ...

I know it's not meant to be accurate, but it implies that all Christians agreed until 431 which is most certainly NOT the case. Even remotely.

 

I've been thinking of that a lot. Even if you look at the website, there is no indication of the mess today's Christianities grew out of. My NT prof said there was more diversity then than today. I find that stretches my imagination almost beyond the breaking point. The graphs (and most of the histories) don't even address the issue.

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Redneck Professor said, "Diplomacy has failed.  I call for a holy war.  Kill the heretics and blasphemers!"

 

If we do that I don't think there will be anybody left and religion will no longer exist. Would that be a bad thing?

 

This comes a bit close to home.  

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I was fortunate enough to be a member of the one true Church that Jesus created personally on the day of Pentecost. I know that is true because they told me that over and over for my entire twenty seven year tenure with them. It sometimes made me sad to acknowledge that I was saved but all those other mislead pretend Christians in denominations were going to hell.

Sorry, Geezer, but unless you were Assemblies of God, then you weren't a member of the one true church that jesus created personally on the day of pentecost.  You were one of those other misled pretend christians who were going to hell.  wink.png

 

 

Whoa there, Prof! The only ones who really got it right was my group of horse and buggy Mennonites. Just talk to my Dad. Well, that worked until he died. Now you can talk to his neighbours and ministers. They'll know it, too.

 

Great!  Now I'm fighting a holy war on two fronts.

 

 

Not really. I'm backing out. I deconverted. 

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Guest Furball

The graph made it easier to understand at a quick glance was the point i think. It got the op's point across, well done from my pov -peace

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FROM http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/a106.htm

 

Rumour has it there's over thirty thousand different kinds of Christian denominations. Now I found the sources and it's totally bewildering. At that link are listed hundreds of denominations worldwide to choose from--so many names I never heard. And I'm sure every single one claims to be the last word on god's revealed will to man. The diagram below shows the main trends and timeline how they developed, also from that links.

 

34hw5tz.png

 

and Jesus pray:

 

20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me (john 17:20-23)

 

3 times their god pray for unity and 2000 years later......

 

 

 

 

That graphic is way too simplistic as it doesn't show how divided the early church was on topics such as;

  • Jesus' divinity
  • Mary's virginity
  • Trinity
  • Who God was / wasn't, how many of him there were?
  • ...

I know it's not meant to be accurate, but it implies that all Christians agreed until 431 which is most certainly NOT the case. Even remotely.

 

nope, even before 431 chirstians fight a lot among themselves

 

for example 20 years after the first church, some members leaving to Jordan because they are not agree regarding mary's virginity

451 was an attempt to unite after hundred of years of debating regarding jesus' divinity, a failed attempt as church divided again into coptic (eastern) and western church

 

there were never any golden era for christianity where people are agreeing to each other

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