R. S. Martin Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Finally I have found a term for the "angry at god" kind of atheist Christians are always accusing us of being. The craziest I've seen is Christians accusing atheists of being crazy for being angry at something we don't even believe exists. That's right; the Christians clued in how crazy it is for atheists to be angry at God and made fun of atheists for doing it anyway. But the atheist wasn't angry at God. So here's what Ken Hood Jr. calls it on his blog Reflections: misotheism. He defines misotheism as hatred for god/gods. You know how "mis" is a prefix for bad or hate as in misanthrope or misogynist. Put miso in front of theist and you've got a person who hates/is angry at god. Ken Hood Jr. posts this at http://kch.me/misotheism-and-atheism. For an example, he uses Kevin Sorbo's character in the film God's Not Dead, a so-called atheist professor, who blamed God for the death of his mother when he was a child but converted back to Christianity moments before his death. Hood says, and I agree: This sort of abrupt conversion would obviously be problematic for an atheist who was truly convinced in their skepticism. However, for the person for whom "atheism" is "a smokescreen for his emotional problems with a god he clearly does believe in" this would not be so much of a problem. Also from Hood: A classic example of a misotheistic character would be Satan from Paradise Lost. That character is unable to have any doubts about God’s existence yet he still hates God and actively works to overthrow his plans. Hood discusses it in more detail at the link above. So next time a Christian accuses me of being angry at God, I can reply, "I think you've mistaken me for a misotheist." 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 And technically a misotheist can't be an atheist. You have to believe something exists in order to hate it or be mad at it. That's like saying I blame all my life's problems on the pink unicorn in the other room but I also know there is no pink unicorn in the other room. One or the other. So yes, that would be a good comeback the next time someone accuses you of being angry with god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 I agree, VioletButterfly. I've been reading this again. You know how Christians are always making comments that make it sound like we must have emotional problems if we left Christianity. People keep saying to me, "I hope you find what you're looking for," as though atheism were an indication of a missing life ingredient. I could never understand those comments when I'd just got done telling them how I'd found answers and peace. But look at this quote. Ken Hood Jr. posts this at http://kch.me/misotheism-and-atheism. However, for the person for whom "atheism" is "a smokescreen for his emotional problems with a god he clearly does believe in" this would not be so much of a problem. If you decide to quit being a Christian to get back at God for making your mother die when you were young, or for making you lose your job, or [fill in the blank], you are responding emotionally and possibly you've got an emotional issue. Such action shows belief that god caused the misfortune, and it shows anger at the God who caused it. You know God exists and he's evil; you hate him! This is misotheism. If you conclude that no moral agent could cause such things to happen, and that in the face of such misfortune you cannot continue believing in a Supreme Moral Agent, i.e. the Christian God, you have reached a logical conclusion. This conclusion shows belief that misfortune occurs outside the jurisdiction of moral agents. The Christian God is said to exist everywhere at all time; there is no place outside his jurisdiction if he exists. Belief in god ends. This is atheism. We might still struggle with emotional issues but we will find help or coping mechanisms outside religion that work better than the empty promises, threats, and anxiety that caused them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
older Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 "Misotheism," what a great idea. This one will go into the notebook for sure. Thanks. However, I don't think it will impress Christians much. I find them quite set in their opinions and, while they might find this new term amusing, will continue to believe that we are just a bunch of angry grumps. I just don't think they can wrap their minds around the illogic of being angry at nothing. After all, logic and Christianity constitute an oxymoron. Once in a discussion I tried to use Santa as an analogy — that not believing in Santa does not mean one is angry at Santa. But the person on the other end of the conversation just kept saying, "But I'm not talking about Santa. I'm talking about God." Even the idea of analogies or examples couldn't bring this person to a place of common sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 You're right, older. No matter what argument we come up with, it's always only a matter of time till they invent a counterargument. The logic never improves. But maybe it helps us in our search for models and self-understanding to refine and define the terms. I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExCBooster Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Narratives. It's all about protecting the narratives. People like to make up stories that explain how and why things happen. This goes double for things that are scary, or challenging. For some Christians, the existence of anybody who remains unconvinced by their religion is a threat to their beliefs. They have a narrative that says that anybody who hears their message will be convinced. They must be. If not, then the choices rapidly narrow: either the person is evil, the belief isn't true, God doesn't exist, or God is evil. Anyone non-Christian (Atheist or not) is a massive challenge to these kinds of Christians. So, to defend their beliefs, and this first narrative, they have to come up with another one: non-Christians are broken somehow - they had a bad experience that turned them against God, for example. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 What if you are atheist who dislikes or hates the character of god? Are you misotheist or something else? It seems you can be atheist and indifferent to god. Or be atheist and dislike Bible god. You can both dislike and disbelieve something. I have strong dislike of some characters in books and movies but have no delusion that they are real. And yes, people can get into long debates about characters and their actions without anyone thinking that anybody in the argument thinks those characters are real. Some characters promote certain ideologies. When we argue about what characters in a book are doing, it doesn't mean we think it happened. We are arguing about whether or not the ideologies and morality shown by the character should be promoted or denounced in real life. When a character does something you think is immoral, then others say that character was good, you can become angry because an idea is being promoted which you are against. This matters because the people who believe the character was good and just might let it affect how they conduct themselves when interacting in society. When someone is praising how wonderful Bible god is, I can't help but think of the character's very bad traits and become irritated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillLooking Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 If you decide to quit being a Christian to get back at God for making your mother die when you were young, or for making you lose your job, or [fill in the blank], you are responding emotionally and possibly you've got an emotional issue. Such action shows belief that god caused the misfortune, and it shows anger at the God who caused it. You know God exists and he's evil; you hate him! This is misotheism. If you conclude that no moral agent could cause such things to happen, and that in the face of such misfortune you cannot continue believing in a Supreme Moral Agent, i.e. the Christian God, you have reached a logical conclusion. This conclusion shows belief that misfortune occurs outside the jurisdiction of moral agents. The Christian God is said to exist everywhere at all time; there is no place outside his jurisdiction if he exists. Belief in god ends. This is atheism. We might still struggle with emotional issues but we will find help or coping mechanisms outside religion that work better than the empty promises, threats, and anxiety that caused them. I admit in the beginning of my deconversion I was a misotheist. After a few years as a misotheist who swore at biblical god I came back to the religion, feeling all sorry and apologetic. Then someone pointed to me that my problem was smaller compare to Somalians' problem so this was why god didn't do anything for me. Instead of feeling better it made me started thinking, what god was doing to the Somalians. I received answer that I had to stop searching and just opened my eyes and heart to god, that I was looking for god too hard. Too late. I started researching catholic doctrines (I was a catholic) and the bible and my research turns me to atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 What if you are atheist who dislikes or hates the character of god? Are you misotheist or something else? It seems you can be atheist and indifferent to god. Or be atheist and dislike Bible god. You can both dislike and disbelieve something. I have strong dislike of some characters in books and movies but have no delusion that they are real. And yes, people can get into long debates about characters and their actions without anyone thinking that anybody in the argument thinks those characters are real. Some characters promote certain ideologies. When we argue about what characters in a book are doing, it doesn't mean we think it happened. We are arguing about whether or not the ideologies and morality shown by the character should be promoted or denounced in real life. When a character does something you think is immoral, then others say that character was good, you can become angry because an idea is being promoted which you are against. This matters because the people who believe the character was good and just might let it affect how they conduct themselves when interacting in society. When someone is praising how wonderful Bible god is, I can't help but think of the character's very bad traits and become irritated. True, but I think the difference is that theists are going off the idea that their god is as real as you and me, and an atheist MUST be mad at him if he's not a loud and proud follower. They believe in the existence of the fictional character, so they can't separate being mad at the god and being angry at the idea of god. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 i enjoy swearing at god and jesus. if someone wants to label it, whatever, either way cursing and cursing at god and jesus was/is cathartic for my deconversion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 CC cursing is cathartic period. I saw an interesting study on that recently. I still find it cathartic to blaspheme but I've been out less than a year. Go for it, I say. There's a lot to dislike about the character and qualities of the desert god of the Abrahamic religions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
older Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 While we can't be angry at something we don't believe exists, I'll tell you what I am angry with. Christians. And for all the reasons that are all over this site. So if we now have a term for those who are angry at gods, what sort of term could we come up with for those of us who are angry at Christians? Somehow I don't think I'd want to use "misochristian." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Is there a cute Greek word for angry at Christianity? I get so pissed at all the bone-headed apologetics and all the absurd demands Christians make on everybody else. The systematic stupidity is beyond words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Older, mymistake...exChristian probably does it. We are known far and wide for our anger at Christians. And that is legitimate. Christians are human beings that one can be angry at. But for those of us who conclude that there is no god to be angry at...well, I just found it really good to discover a term to hide behind for my own self-esteem when the christies get to slinging the angry-at-god mudballs. As usual, they're misguided (often willingly so) and throwing their crap at a shadow, not at who I really am, if they're throwing it at a misotheist when I am an atheist. That's all this thread was about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 If you decide to quit being a Christian to get back at God for making your mother die when you were young, or for making you lose your job, or [fill in the blank], you are responding emotionally and possibly you've got an emotional issue. Such action shows belief that god caused the misfortune, and it shows anger at the God who caused it. You know God exists and he's evil; you hate him! This is misotheism. If you conclude that no moral agent could cause such things to happen, and that in the face of such misfortune you cannot continue believing in a Supreme Moral Agent, i.e. the Christian God, you have reached a logical conclusion. This conclusion shows belief that misfortune occurs outside the jurisdiction of moral agents. The Christian God is said to exist everywhere at all time; there is no place outside his jurisdiction if he exists. Belief in god ends. This is atheism. We might still struggle with emotional issues but we will find help or coping mechanisms outside religion that work better than the empty promises, threats, and anxiety that caused them. I admit in the beginning of my deconversion I was a misotheist. After a few years as a misotheist who swore at biblical god I came back to the religion, feeling all sorry and apologetic. Then someone pointed to me that my problem was smaller compare to Somalians' problem so this was why god didn't do anything for me. Instead of feeling better it made me started thinking, what god was doing to the Somalians. I received answer that I had to stop searching and just opened my eyes and heart to god, that I was looking for god too hard. Too late. I started researching catholic doctrines (I was a catholic) and the bible and my research turns me to atheism. That's a common story on these forums. People start seeking to really understand the faith they're supposed to profess by reading the Bible or studying history or whatever, and they find themselves without any faith at all. It's not for no reason that for centuries the RCC didn't let lay people read the Bible or theology. And banned books like Galileo's writings. And that conservative churches control information access to members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 If you decide to quit being a Christian to get back at God for making your mother die when you were young, or for making you lose your job, or [fill in the blank], you are responding emotionally and possibly you've got an emotional issue. Such action shows belief that god caused the misfortune, and it shows anger at the God who caused it. You know God exists and he's evil; you hate him! This is misotheism. If you conclude that no moral agent could cause such things to happen, and that in the face of such misfortune you cannot continue believing in a Supreme Moral Agent, i.e. the Christian God, you have reached a logical conclusion. This conclusion shows belief that misfortune occurs outside the jurisdiction of moral agents. The Christian God is said to exist everywhere at all time; there is no place outside his jurisdiction if he exists. Belief in god ends. This is atheism. We might still struggle with emotional issues but we will find help or coping mechanisms outside religion that work better than the empty promises, threats, and anxiety that caused them. I admit in the beginning of my deconversion I was a misotheist. After a few years as a misotheist who swore at biblical god I came back to the religion, feeling all sorry and apologetic. Then someone pointed to me that my problem was smaller compare to Somalians' problem so this was why god didn't do anything for me. Instead of feeling better it made me started thinking, what god was doing to the Somalians. I received answer that I had to stop searching and just opened my eyes and heart to god, that I was looking for god too hard. Too late. I started researching catholic doctrines (I was a catholic) and the bible and my research turns me to atheism. That's a common story on these forums. People start seeking to really understand the faith they're supposed to profess by reading the Bible or studying history or whatever, and they find themselves without any faith at all. It's not for no reason that for centuries the RCC didn't let lay people read the Bible or theology. And banned books like Galileo's writings. And that conservative churches control information access to members. This happened to me also. I turned to Christianity for comfort during a hard time and came out an atheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsiderTheSource Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 If i was to be approached about any anger i was showing i would be honest. The real anger i have is with myself. How could i be so stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 If i was to be approached about any anger i was showing i would be honest. The real anger i have is with myself. How could i be so stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. Honesty is good. Eventually the anger will fade. At least, more of life will accumulate after Christianity that you can be proud of so the regrets will hopefully recede to the background. You don't sound like a misotheist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Christians also are angry at things they don't really believe exist: They rail against Harry Potter and any number of fantastical characters, because they are railing against the ideas. We are angry and what the Abrahamic god seems to be producing in people. People are directed against their better nature and conscience to ostracize and hate other groups of people, join forces with one group in persecuting another in order to facilitate their imminent apocalypse and their more immediate blessing, and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsiderTheSource Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Thanks Martin. I am pretty much "already there". I have a hard time getting angry with the folks who I CHOSE to associate with because, although soooo disguided, they definately thought they were "in the right". So, i can only really look to myself on the rare occasion i get a bit upset about what happenned to me. But... i have little issue TODAY getting upset with these folks and what they do. It sure helps to have the corrective lens of truth and reality firmly in place in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thanks Martin. I am pretty much "already there". I have a hard time getting angry with the folks who I CHOSE to associate with because, although soooo disguided, they definately thought they were "in the right". So, i can only really look to myself on the rare occasion i get a bit upset about what happenned to me. But... i have little issue TODAY getting upset with these folks and what they do. It sure helps to have the corrective lens of truth and reality firmly in place in my mind. It sounds like you converted to Christianity. That's not something I can identify with. I was born into it and my questions started early. What I have to come to terms with is not leaving decades earlier but the reasons are so obvious that it's easy to explain it to myself, much like you seem to be doing for your own case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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