Being A Women Automatically Makes You A Worse Person.

[LimitedEdition]

Accord to the christian religion, and most other religions, being a women automatically makes you a worse person than if you had been born a man. I was indoctrinated from birth, and I don't hate my parents at all (in fact they were wonderful parents) I know they didn't mean to teach me this, but when you are entwined with the christian faith, the message is clear weather the community wants it to be or not.

 

The catholic church loves to pretend that it thinks that women are equals. Yet real leadership positions are given solely to men with the only explanation being that the first leader was a man, and the reason he was a man was because it was just the culture at the time and the prophet needed to be taken seriously by the locals, and so now all leaders have to be men just like the first one because that trait was chosen out of the other hundreds that a person might have, for... some reason. Sorry ladies, you're equals there's just technicalities!

 

Sex-shaming. I get it, I get the ancient thinking and the modern thinking. The old days, females needed to be controlled so that a man knew that his children were his, and the modern thinking is to protect your daughters from STDs and pregnancy. There are also two other worries that these ancient and modern people both hold. One is sin, of course. Don't want the women going to hell for sleeping around and dragging the men down with them by their temptation. The other being that men wanted to protect themselves from the absolute power a women's sexuality has over them. I'm sorry, but men are the ones paying out in dollars and diamonds just for sex and the women are the pathetic ones in this situation? Forget the whore being in the wrong, what about the poor desperate souls giving up their livelihood GOING to them? Porn stars have A LOT of confidence in themselves (well, could YOU get naked on camera?) half the guys watching and buying these sex workers probably cry at night (if not just on the inside). 

 

Oh yes, they turned it around and they turned it around good. I want you, dear reader, to think about this phrase: "Grow a pair you pussy!" What do you think about that phrase? I think it's a little backwards myself. Pussies... not only can they be stretched and pounded (pounded HARD I might add), a bowling ball can get shoved right through and they will STILL retain their shape (birth does change it a little though, but they still go back to being tight and ready for sexual pleasure). Balls? you get nicked there once, you're down for the count. Yet balls are a symbol of strength and pussies are a symbol of weakness. So what's with this bass akwards thinking? Men needed to protect themselves from being taken advantage of and controlled, so they made women feel shameful about their bodies and think that their strength was a weakness. 

 

This probably all makes sense from an evolutionary standpoint. Males want the procreating act so bad that it gets done, and females make sure they get the supplies they need by getting males to get them. Whatever, the implications of that statement can and does fill volumes. The social structure of humans since the beginning of agriculture has changed dramatically, and this dynamic between men and women may not serve us the way it used to. In fact, it may do more harm than good but, we are stuck dealing with it anyway, and so far religious sex shaming as been the answer. 

 

I'm not sure what the answer to dealing with our hunter gather nature in the captivity we've put it in is (probably evolving again lol), but the world seems to be wanting to get away from the female sex shaming. I believe that this is the reason we have obnoxious advertisements using hyper-sexualized images of females to sell products comes from. Female sexuality is a powerful thing, not a shameful weakness. Society, in a good way or a bad one, is showing that it is coming to admit that. 

 

If this post seems to contain misandry or an over the top look at female sexuality, I'm very sorry. The ideas presented here are over simplified (it's a forum post, people) and of course I have my own issues. I am not saying that excuses misandry or any other negative attitude this post may contain, maybe it doesn't have misandry after all and I'm just worried that it does, maybe it has misogyny!! I don't know. This is my rant, this is how I feel, I want to get better so that I don't have to have an emotional break down every time I have sex.

 

 

 

 

[Fweethawt]

Any evidence to back up the bowling ball thing?

 

And, yes, its true; men only buy women stuff to get to that sweet-sweet pussy! I mean, what other reason could there possibly be?

[Thurisaz]

I have absofuckingly no problem with you calling men who want to control and subjugate women assholes LimEd. Turnabout's fair play, if they can't take as well as they can give, maybe they shouldn't have given for starters.

 

That said, the people all by themselves tend to be much much better than what others keep telling us about them, at least that's my experience over here. Granted that morontheist cults (and, I suppose, all other authoritarian groups) are asshole gangs in that way, but when I look around over here and see how the media insist that all women are liars and gold diggers and simultaneously all men are cold cruel rapists and such... fuck it, if even just 10 % of the population really were like that this country would be in flames. Permanently.

 

But the media need to keep us shocked and afraid to get into our wallets. And the politicians love it when we're afraid because fear motivates to bow to those in power ("Protect us with your power pleeeeease!").

[Ravenstar]

^^^ They also love it when we don't trust each other… polarization is a powerful control method. Not just 'liberal' vs. 'conservative', but the 'battle of the sexes' is used extensively to keep people from productive and positive political and social relationships.

 

Nice post, by the way.

[Leo]

At the same time, I agree with the last post ad feel sorry for the original poster. It's true, and people are made to feel guilty because of it all.

 

But as humans, rather than divide and conquer, as humans:

 

We can do much better. We can do much better than people who sex shame men as senseless horn dog creepers or women as sluts.

And I think by 'men' you actually mean 'powerful men', not working guys that may help load up the food boxes or just come and go. I don't believe in collective responsibility anymore, frankly. Leads to that original sin construct, whether it's the society for cutting down women -- religion, or the terrorist outfit the Society For Cutting Up Men -- and its related and supporting infrastructures.

 

I'll admit I've always hated the "battle of the sexes" or "defend your gender," even popularized on Christian radio. Be a couple in a marriage class, where not just one of you, but both of you doesn't fulfill the roles required.

 

I'm gonna sound pretty tinfoil hat here, but I think it's a clear strategy to divide and conquer less powerful humans. The concept of "white" wasn't even considered until the 16th century when it came time to divide the workers against each other, to keep them from uniting against the nobility.

 

I will forever mistrust any movement that does such dividing. I don't mean the individual humans in it: I mean the *system* be it JudeoChristlam or radical feminism or the loud tards so-called 'movement' slacktivists on Youtube calling themselves a men movement with nothing to show for it.

 

I mistrust them deeply because for each of them there is a blame requirement, a blame based on birth. And there is a division which is decidedly aimed at keeping people fighting against each other. And within each, you'd find any number of sensible people who really don't go along as far as the leadership would have it, people who are genuine working people trying to work together and get along.

 

There is something to the gang mentality, and it's not a male thing. It's a gang thing. You create the us against them, and pressure to conform, and you have a recipe for disaster. They know it. They exploit it. I'm simply not willing to be part of any of those anymore.

[mymistake]

It is not possible to believe in the Bible and also support gender equality.  It just can't be done because the ancient goat herders who wrote the Bible are simply too extreme.  You can't use that source without being contaminated by it.  Perhaps there are religions that can support equality but I'm sure they have nothing to do with the Bible.

 

 

 

 

Oh yes, they turned it around and they turned it around good. I want you, dear reader, to think about this phrase: "Grow a pair you pussy!" What do you think about that phrase?

 

 

Sounds like something I would only hear if I were watching Full Metal Jacket.  Outside of a drill instructor from the Vietnam War I just can't imagine anybody saying that.  Maybe BO talked like that but only to troll.

 

 

 

 

Yet balls are a symbol of strength and pussies are a symbol of weakness.

 

I have no idea how that silly idea became part of our culture.

 

 

 

The ideas presented here are over simplified . . . 

 

Yeah, I get the rage.  However there are a lot of people today who are striving for equality.  Much of what you describe is the older culture that is dying off.  Soon it will go the way of the dinosaur.  Our new culture we are developing may not be perfectly equal but it will be a hell of a lot better than anything humans have enjoyed before.

[Leo]

Mymistake, I know you qualified by saying a religion that is based on the Bible. I agree.

 

I'm not one of these but felt the need to speak up on their behalf: Pagans. They seem to express real equality. I've met a few feminist pagans / goddess worshippers or hell maybe they think they're goddesses too I dunno. And they're not in the so-called gender war either. I don't believe what they believe about gods / goddesses / nature / woo, but honestly I find them to be a fantastic group of people, the ones I've met. If anyone of a religious bent was gonna be gender egalitarian like many of us nontheistic types, I'm pretty sure it would be those pagans.

[Thurisaz]

Divide et impera (divide and conquer). It's not Latin in the original for no reason. Imperial Rome used this principle all across the place already and we know how long the empire lasted.

 

The only divide that is worth dealing with is rich vs poor. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors to preserve the rule of the self-proclaimed herrenmenschen.

[gall]

I have absofuckingly no problem with you calling men who want to control and subjugate women assholes LimEd. Turnabout's fair play, if they can't take as well as they can give, maybe they shouldn't have given for starters.

 

That said, the people all by themselves tend to be much much better than what others keep telling us about them, at least that's my experience over here. Granted that morontheist cults (and, I suppose, all other authoritarian groups) are asshole gangs in that way, but when I look around over here and see how the media insist that all women are liars and gold diggers and simultaneously all men are cold cruel rapists and such... fuck it, if even just 10 % of the population really were like that this country would be in flames. Permanently.

 

But the media need to keep us shocked and afraid to get into our wallets. And the politicians love it when we're afraid because fear motivates to bow to those in power ("Protect us with your power pleeeeease!").

 

you can eliminate that shock by ignoring the media. Skip the news skip the crap skip the drama. You can't most likely personally affect any of that scary shit its just there for the very reason you said.

 

it is easier to control with fear than love and responsibility.

 

Anyone men or women who seek to control others are assholes. Gender is just an excuse for bad behavior mostly in this case in the worlds history mens bad behavior. it sucks ass really since I have never been that way and seek to control nothing other than my own thoughts, yet as a man I am partly being blamed for something I never did and had no hand in furthering.

 

I have distanced or dropped myself from any friendship with any other males I know that won't treat women the same way I do. I treat them how I would prefer to be treated, its how I treat all people.

 

yes I am an asshole sometimes and expect that in return from others sometimes, but I promise no one knows better for me than me. For all those women out there that have suffered men that are fucking moron control assholes or short sighted pigs I am sorry that it happened please don't judge us all, some of us are humans first and see you the same way.

[rerics]

 

 

 

Yet balls are a symbol of strength and pussies are a symbol of weakness.

 

I have no idea how that silly idea became part of our culture.

 

 

 

Just a guess, but I wonder if the male sexual anatomy has come to symbolize power or strength due to the its use as the initiator or aggressor in the sexual act, whereas the female sexual anatomy symbolizes weakness by virtue of its role in submitting to that act.

 

 

 

[LimitedEdition]

Well, thanks for the support you guys. I know perfectly well that ideas like these are quickly becoming outdated, and I'm very glad for that. It's just that I was taught that these were the correct ideas. I wanted to talk more about how the church I grew up in tried to explain things away so we could all shake our heads, laugh, compare it to how other churches handled the same problems etc but then it just kinda turned into a personal feelings rant, especially the last line ah hahaha. 

[♦ ficino ♦]

LimitedEdition, I think you are right that Christianity presents women as being worth less than men, on a whole lot of levels.  I see that in Judaism, at least in its Orthodox versions, in Islam, in Hinduism.  People used to talk about the ancient religion of The Goddess, but I don't know whether that's much in vogue anymore.

 

I remember, perhaps in a post on this site a while back, that most religions seem to promote the idea that there is something wrong with women's bodies.  As well as with their minds.  They try to deny it, but it's deepseated in the culture.  I always notice when women use tropes of language that refer to balls as symbols of strength and to pussies as symbols of weakness.  I agree with your take on that. 

 

Before I retired I was the head of a girls' high school.  We all tried (including the students themselves) to reinforce positive ideas and models about gender.  But it's surprising how often we all tripped up out of habit.  My final speech to the school, when a good number of parents were also present, I threw in the wish that the students would not only find happy marriages but good sex, that it's part of the joy of life.  I noticed some people doing a double take.  usually in public nothing positive would be said about sex, mostly warnings about it. Afterwards a number of mothers thanked me for saying that.

 

One of my colleagues used to theorize that gender inequality increased, the more material assets increased, and that this started around the time of the agricultural revolution.  That is in line with what you suggest in your OP.

[traveller2]

Women can be the absolute worst for perpetuating the old gender stereotypes.at the end of the day you cannot really get away from hundreds of millions of yrs of animal evolution just coz you think it makes sense.

[LimitedEdition]

ficino, that's very interesting that it would be the material assets that would increase the inequality. The nuances of how that social structure led or leads to that can probably fill volumes. I wonder why it happened like that. Thank you for replying, I would reply longer but I am pulling an all-nigher and thinking isn't happening! lol

 

 

 

Women can be the absolute worst for perpetuating the old gender stereotypes.at the end of the day you cannot really get away from hundreds of millions of yrs of animal evolution just coz you think it makes sense.

 

They've been motivated by fear. 

[Margee]

 

it is easier to control with fear than love and responsibility.

 

Anyone men or women who seek to control others are assholes. Gender is just an excuse for bad behavior mostly in this case in the worlds history mens bad behavior. it sucks ass really since I have never been that way and seek to control nothing other than my own thoughts, yet as a man I am partly being blamed for something I never did and had no hand in furthering.

 

I have distanced or dropped myself from any friendship with any other males I know that won't treat women the same way I do. I treat them how I would prefer to be treated, its how I treat all people.

 

yes I am an asshole sometimes and expect that in return from others sometimes, but I promise no one knows better for me than me. For all those women out there that have suffered men that are fucking moron control assholes or short sighted pigs I am sorry that it happened please don't judge us all, some of us are humans first and see you the same way.

 

 

Gall....just my opinion, but I classify this as a 5 star post. *****

 

Beautifully said. And thank you so much for being a person of integrity. I honor that quality as the highest attributes in my books.

 

hug 

[traveller2]

ficino, that's very interesting that it would be the material assets that would increase the inequality. The nuances of how that social structure led or leads to t

 

 

 

 

Women can be the absolute worst for perpetuating the old gender stereotypes.at the end of the day you cannot really get away from hundreds of millions of yrs of animal evolution just coz you think it makes sense.

They've been motivated by fear.

respectfully that's not what I've observed.

[♦ ficino ♦]

ficino, that's very interesting that it would be the material assets that would increase the inequality. The nuances of how that social structure led or leads to that can probably fill volumes. I wonder why it happened like that. Thank you for replying, I would reply longer but I am pulling an all-nigher and thinking isn't happening! lol

 

 

 

All the best on what you're working on!  Get SOME rest!

 

My former colleague, who was a history teacher and all-but-dissertation person from university, held to the theory that with agriculture came fixed assets.  That led to the problem of sorting out inheritance.  There was then the fear that if you couldn't be sure of who your children were, outsiders would claim kinship with you and thus, a piece of an inheritance.  So it became economically important to regulate women's sexuality, to prevent "bastards" from getting a piece of the inheritance.  To have the category "bastards" requires a lot of other categories. 

 

I don't know how current this is; I think Diana's position was fairly common maybe in the 70s and 80s.  I also don't know the research it rests on.  I have heard that hunting and gathering societies often had less gender disparity than agricultural ones, even as the hunter-gatherers did have some differences of gender roles.  But that's as much as I know.

[Aiyana]

mymistake, you must live in a very, very different world than me if you can only imagine someone saying "Grow a pair, you pussy!" in a movie or in the Vietnam War era. Also, to say that these ideas are going the way of the dinosaurs... well, hopefully someday... but it's not going to be anytime soon.

[Mike D]

Even though Christianity does promote the idea that men or better than women, I never bought into it personally. 

 

I actually always used intelligence as a measure of superiority/inferiority, not gender.

 

This is all relative though, some churches teach that certain races are inferior.  Most teach that gay people are inferior.  Etc....

[Deva]

In my experience, a divorced woman can never be a full member of the church in the same sense as other married people are.  They are looked down upon and made to feel inferior.  Its a major reason I could never go back to the Baptist church, even if there were no other reasons.

[mymistake]

mymistake, you must live in a very, very different world than me if you can only imagine someone saying "Grow a pair, you pussy!" in a movie or in the Vietnam War era. Also, to say that these ideas are going the way of the dinosaurs... well, hopefully someday... but it's not going to be anytime soon.

 

Well my son is begging me to get Xbox live so he can play Modern Warfare online.  I'm sure that would be a place where people would say that sort of thing.  But I imagine none of those boys can buy beer . . . or vote . . . or buy M rated games such as Modern Warfare.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I too went through a stage where I thought using profanity made me sound mature.  I think I was in 5th grade at the time.

[Blood]

Basically, most forms of progress over the last 300 years have occurred because people finally gained the freedom to stop accepting the church hierarchies and authority. 

[StillLooking]

 

The catholic church loves to pretend that it thinks that women are equals. Yet real leadership positions are given solely to men with the only explanation being that the first leader was a man, and the reason he was a man was because it was just the culture at the time and the prophet needed to be taken seriously by the locals, and so now all leaders have to be men just like the first one because that trait was chosen out of the other hundreds that a person might have, for... some reason. Sorry ladies, you're equals there's just technicalities!

 

 

 

Uh uh... Awhile ago I came across this about why catholics should accept women as less than men. I had a "What the ???" moment reading this:

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/how-do-we-know-it%E2%80%99s-the-true-church

 

 

Sometimes we have to deny some lesser good in order to affirm the greater good. I think you have to deny women’s ordination in order to affirm the apostolic ministry. If the apostolic authority says no to women’s ordination, then to affirm the greater good of apostolic authority you will have to deny the lesser good of women’s ordination. Because if we deny the greater good, then eventually we will lose the lesser good as well.

 

I imagine this is the same argument that people use in keeping the altar boys sex abuse scandals under the cover, make that any sex abuse cases within the church. Make me want to scream at the whole lot of them.

[Thurisaz]

 

...But the media need to keep us shocked and afraid to get into our wallets. And the politicians love it when we're afraid because fear motivates to bow to those in power ("Protect us with your power pleeeeease!").

 

you can eliminate that shock by ignoring the media. Skip the news skip the crap skip the drama. You can't most likely personally affect any of that scary shit its just there for the very reason you said...

 

That's what I do these days. Well at least the mainstream media. Outside the mainstream you can find lots of good stuff. But to actually get to that point, to tell the liars' guild to go fuck itself on every topic, that was damn hard. I kept finding myself accepting their bullshit for some topics though I gave them the finger for most other ones already for quite some time.

 

Women can be the absolute worst for perpetuating the old gender stereotypes.at the end of the day you cannot really get away from hundreds of millions of yrs of animal evolution just coz you think it makes sense.

 

No shit.

Really, a vast majority of the crap coming from the lunatic fringe of feminism over here can (quite interestingly) be summed up as "take the reasoning of the old crappy patriarchy, slap some new, 'feminist'™ reasons on it, then sell the old crap as new". For example, where "back in the day" women couldn't be allowed to sleep around lest they're called sluts and be worthless and unmarriable, today they mustn't sleep around because sex is done with men and thus automatically a surrender to evil and thus only to be done in absolute emergencies if the price to be gained is right. That, and other crap.

Or, all that fashion bullshit. Unless you literally run around in a garbage bag, I dare say that most men (at least here in Germany) don't care much about how you style and what you wear in everyday life (though I admit that dating and such would be another thing ), but for all I know you'll get truckloads of shit from other women if you dare to ignore fashion dogma. And so on.

I'm sure it's not all women; this shit does come from a lunatic fringe after all. But yeah, those nutjob gals are really good at upholding the ancient misogyny, just under new names - and sometimes not even caring about the names.

 

mymistake, you must live in a very, very different world than me if you can only imagine someone saying "Grow a pair, you pussy!" in a movie or in the Vietnam War era. Also, to say that these ideas are going the way of the dinosaurs... well, hopefully someday... but it's not going to be anytime soon.

 

I dunno Aiyana... as far as I can tell watching it all from Germany, the misogynists in the US seem to act more over-the-top batshit insane with every day. Quite the same as the political rightards. And I've seen it said that statistics show that rightardism is actually dying out slowly but steadily, that the shrill rightards are really crying as loud as they do because they're increasingly desperate.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if it was the same with those misogynists? Just sayin'...

[mymistake]

.. as far as I can tell watching it all from Germany, the misogynists in the US seem to act more over-the-top batshit insane with every day. Quite the same as the political rightards. And I've seen it said that statistics show that rightardism is actually dying out slowly but steadily, that the shrill rightards are really crying as loud as they do because they're increasingly desperate.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if it was the same with those misogynists? Just sayin'...

 

 

 

A couple of elections ago we had some whackos who wanted to debate fake vs. real rape and use unnecessary and invasive medical procedures as a deterrent for getting abortions.  They all did terrible at the poll.  If it wasn't for our Religious Right's home schooling blitz over the last decade the Republican Party would be completely dead right now.  However I do believe they are getting the message.  Anti-women legislation and rhetoric are political suicide.