I'm Confused As Hell.

[masquerade]

I apologize in advance if what I say is not coherent. I'm stressed out and have damn near lost my mind.

 

I believe in the occult. I also believe it's probably something very dark; something that can fuck a person up. I don't know specifics, I don't have the answers, but I do know I want nothing to do with it. For lack of a better way of describing it, my current views seem to be almost like belief in the satanic without belief in Jesus. I've tried to go back to being a Christian, but each time I do, I realize I clearly do not and cannot believe in its theology. Not only the corrupt institutionalized aspect of the church, but the core theology behind the faith. I'm not a Christian. Yet, I seem to believe, at least in some aspect, in its "bogeyman". Not only do I not believe in the Christian faith, but I also do not believe in a theistic interpretation of God which maintains a personal relationship with its creation.

 

My tinfoil hat doesn't seem to be going anywhere, unfortunately. But neither is my skepticism of Christian theology. People have their religious experiences, and I believe many of them go beyond what science can currently explain. What am I? Where do I fit? Can any of you relate?

 

EDIT: Shit. Wrong board. Can someone move this to Ex-Christian Spirituality?

[StJeffTheIncomprehensible]

Hi masquerade,

 

I'm sorry you're going through this--it must be confusing and frustrating.

 

Is your sense that this dark power is supernatural, or natural? I don't know, but it seems to me that the same arguments against god's existence work pretty well against the existence of any supernatural being--good, evil, or otherwise.

 

On the other hand, if this dark power is natural, it seems there is little you could do to either avoid or appease it. It just is, and we have to live our lives as we must regardless.

 

I know this probably isn't helpful--just trying to help you talk through it. Hopefully someone with more direct experience with your trouble can be of more help.

[masquerade]

Hi masquerade,

 

I'm sorry you're going through this--it must be confusing and frustrating.

 

Is your sense that this dark power is supernatural, or natural? I don't know, but it seems to me that the same arguments against god's existence work pretty well against the existence of any supernatural being--good, evil, or otherwise.

 

On the other hand, if this dark power is natural, it seems there is little you could do to either avoid or appease it. It just is, and we have to live our lives as we must regardless.

 

I know this probably isn't helpful--just trying to help you talk through it. Hopefully someone with more direct experience with your trouble can be of more help.

 

I don't know the details of what I believe. As for not being able to avoid it or appease it if this is the case, I agree. That's not as much the issue. The issue at hand is that, if the satanic, for lack of a better term, is real, it's difficult for me to reconcile that without also believing in the Christian faith. I don't want it to look like I'm just refusing to acknowledge a religion that I subconsciously believe in, because that isn't my motive. While there may or may not be some aspects I believe in, I cannot rationally believe in the doctrines of the Christian church. The Old Testament doesn't support the New Testament, and without the OT, the NT can't stand on its own. So many of Christianity's core doctrines are completely foreign to the Hebrew scriptures. Original sin/total depravity? It's not there. Eternal damnation for non-believers? No. The church had to invent a sickness before they could sell their cure. Jesus didn't fit the description of the coming Jewish Messiah. I clearly have my reasons for not believing. Yet, the testimonies of others, the usage of luciferian symbolism throughout the media, the existence of something as batshit crazy as the Bohemian Grove; these are only a few of examples of why I fear something is not right.

[Deva]

I think its OK if you don't know exactly what you believe and are able to put it down in some coherent way.  Seeing that there are dark forces in the world does not make you Christian. I think there have been demons and dark forces since humans began observing the world.  Maybe it will take you some time to work things out and why isn't that OK?

 

I am sure it is uncomfortable but maybe see that one day you will be able to work things out and - hate to use the word "faith" but have confidence that this confusion is temporary and you will sort these things out, although there are always mysteries in life.

 

I had never heard of the Bohemian Grove. Pretty bizarre.

[zuker12]

As far as i understood it, the bohemian grove is a social club for eccentric rich ppl who may or may not be involved in occultism. Depends on if you believe in Alex Jones or not.

 

There's however quite a lot i can relate to here... i used to obsess about conspiracy theories and occultism. It made me a ruin. I think the original reason i converted was compulsive thoughts and obsessiviness combined with a fear of monsters, putting in a good amount of christian horror stories for measure. I couldnt stand it, the very bleak and grim view of the world, where nothing was permitted or safe. Suffice to say, a couple of years laater, i didnt see the influence anymore. I just didnt find it believable. It didnt play out anyway near how things were supposed to be in these "end-times" and i didnt feel fear anymore. I felt it more reasonable and human to just look at things oon their own terms instead of capitulating on the "unbelief" or "occultic faith" some persons of a movement hold. (In this regard i view conspiracists alike to xtian apologists, grasping for straws and finding everyy little thing whether believable or not to support their viewpoint. There's also the fact that they view the world thru their conspiravision, hence they will interpret everything that way and make logical leaps to support their positions).

 

Later oon in my life i did study occultism but from a more neutral pov. I didnt really find it being extremely evil. Maybe at times, selfish, but much of it had admonitions to beehave well and act respectably towards other human beings. It is of course culturally more diverse and is not tied to a certain mindset in contrast to strict abrahamic religions which is why there is a lot of syncretism and blending of practices.

 

As to my view... i dont know for sure. The conspiracy/occult world is a shitstorm to delve into. It is as prone to chaos and disagreements as the religious/political field. Ive reasoned that if there are spirits, then you need to be careful and reasonable with them. Regarding magic, i view it (if it is even real aside from suggestion) as a tool. You are ultimately responsible for whatever happens when you use it, and you are expected to fix whatever trouble it might cause.

 

I might write more later on but now im just tired lol.

[Joshpantera]

 

Hi masquerade,

 

I'm sorry you're going through this--it must be confusing and frustrating.

 

Is your sense that this dark power is supernatural, or natural? I don't know, but it seems to me that the same arguments against god's existence work pretty well against the existence of any supernatural being--good, evil, or otherwise.

 

On the other hand, if this dark power is natural, it seems there is little you could do to either avoid or appease it. It just is, and we have to live our lives as we must regardless.

 

I know this probably isn't helpful--just trying to help you talk through it. Hopefully someone with more direct experience with your trouble can be of more help.

 

I don't know the details of what I believe. As for not being able to avoid it or appease it if this is the case, I agree. That's not as much the issue. The issue at hand is that, if the satanic, for lack of a better term, is real, it's difficult for me to reconcile that without also believing in the Christian faith. I don't want it to look like I'm just refusing to acknowledge a religion that I subconsciously believe in, because that isn't my motive. While there may or may not be some aspects I believe in, I cannot rationally believe in the doctrines of the Christian church. The Old Testament doesn't support the New Testament, and without the OT, the NT can't stand on its own. So many of Christianity's core doctrines are completely foreign to the Hebrew scriptures. Original sin/total depravity? It's not there. Eternal damnation for non-believers? No. The church had to invent a sickness before they could sell their cure. Jesus didn't fit the description of the coming Jewish Messiah. I clearly have my reasons for not believing. Yet, the testimonies of others, the usage of luciferian symbolism throughout the media, the existence of something as batshit crazy as the Bohemian Grove; these are only a few of examples of why I fear something is not right.

 

I've considered these very questions. Thanks for raising this problem because I want to wade through it with you, if you don't mind. 

 

You seem to understand quite well how Christianity has invented ideas that weren't there in the Bible previously. The glaring one that stands out at this time is Satan. Satan was not there in Genesis, he wasn't the snake, and that was all part of Christianity projecting ideas backwards. It's like the doctrine of the Trinity and other similar issues. I'll post a very informative video below, but, hang with me because even in the presence of what is discussed in the video we need to still come to terms with why in the hell Satanic symbolism is wide spread, even in the event that Satan is a mythological character like Jesus: 

 

 

I've researched into the Occult mostly through Blavatsky and Manly P. Hall. Their works rank as part of a total overview on comparative mythology and religion. The old myths were played around with and their symbolism used right on through the dark and middle ages. Secret societies arose like Freemasonry which make use of the old symbolism. In the case of the writers above they seem to understand that it's not literal, Satan, like other mythological characters represents something. It's that something that may ring as valid, that something beneath the surface of the myth. Satanism is about satisfying those selfish and self centered desires. They are true. The desires exist. But they don't come from a literal evil being playing games in your mind. At least that's not the way that the more advanced Occultist's understand it. 

 

It's our animal nature. The mark of the beast which is the number of man breaks down to Hebrew symbols "vav, vav, vav" which are 666. The oldest number of the beast was found on an old manuscript as 616. So there was some variant, the 616 may be original. The mainstream articles I've read about it suggest that 616 and 666 both refer to two different Caesar's who the early Christians thought would become the anti-christ and usher in the end of the world. But I went deeper than that. I looked at what the Hebrew characters mean symbolically, as well as numerically and alphabetically. In the symbolic sense 616 taken individually renders this:

 

to secure (6), strength, leader, first (1), to secure(6)

 

Each vav (6) tends to display a 616 because v =6, a=1, v=6. So 666 = vav, vav, vav which then gives 616, 616, 616. It's all very interwoven on close examination.

 

So I got to thinking about it. The symbols tend to suggest something about the survival of the fittest tendency in nature. To secure power you aim to become the strength, the leader, and the 1st. It's about the drive towards dominance and absolutism. It tends to incorporate the idea of hierarchy. These are being suggested as anti-christ and Satanic. And Rome with it's Caesar's was the physical representation at the time of the survival of the fittest tendency in nature. The number of the beast is also the number of man. Some translations say the number of a man, while others say man. So I'm looking at mankind in general which also includes an individual depending on how we're looking at it. 

 

Now look at the modern world of politics.

 

Who controls everything? Are world leaders largely involved in any secret societies? And are they people who have chosen to rise to the top?Are they mainly self centered individuals seeking personal wealth, power, and gain? 

 

You see large scale media coverage of occult symbolism because the people who orchestrate most of it are either privy to the occult or are themselves members of an occult group, in edition to their Christian membership or whatever. They promote their ideologies through advertising, NFL super bowl half time costumes and other public performances, cartoons, and basically everything that eccentric artistic people are involved in. To the extent of Disney! Look at the recent hub bub about Monster energy drinks. That hit facebook by storm. I looked into it because the claim is that the three lines that look like three claw marks are supposed to represent three vav's. They aren't identical to three vav's, but it's close and you can see that some eccentric and clever artist my have been intentionally playing around with Monster Energy Drink as unleashing the beast, and then associating the beast with the description in Revelation of vav, vav, vav through creative artistic rendition. As much as I have learned about Satan as basically a made up character, and how Theosophist's and secret society members know that it's symbolic and not literal, the symbolism is so wide spread that it even makes me give it all a second glance from time to time. It's seemingly everywhere! It looks as if the Christians may be right with their conspiracy theories. 

 

But the more I think about it the more I see that the most likely scenario is that people love to play around with mythology, the dark and light features of it. It's more innocent than it appears. Mythology is metaphorical and represents the energies of the human psyche. Demons are repression's within the psyche of an individual. You see clergy repressing sexuality and then it explodes into what they would like to call, "Satan made me do it." Satan did make them do it, but Satan is simply the animal instincts that were being repressed in an unhealthy manor through celibacy. The demons may seem real, and they are real, but they represent energies of the psyche, not literal spooks following us around or jumping into our bodies and forcing us to do things.

 

Joseph Campbell is an authority on world mythology that I often appeal to, even at the risk of appealing to authority, but what he said about the Hero's Journey is that when we turn inward the first thing we often encounter are the demons of repression. I don't know if that's what you've been encountering or the details of what may be repressed, but I'd explore that further if I were you. It may be something related to your animal nature and instincts which is very natural, yet is what the myths are referring to in terms of Satan. Seeing that as natural and finding a healthy solution may be the path that leads to conquering that particular dragon........ 

[Ellinas]

I apologize in advance if what I say is not coherent. I'm stressed out and have damn near lost my mind.

 

I believe in the occult. I also believe it's probably something very dark; something that can fuck a person up. I don't know specifics, I don't have the answers, but I do know I want nothing to do with it. For lack of a better way of describing it, my current views seem to be almost like belief in the satanic without belief in Jesus. I've tried to go back to being a Christian, but each time I do, I realize I clearly do not and cannot believe in its theology. Not only the corrupt institutionalized aspect of the church, but the core theology behind the faith. I'm not a Christian. Yet, I seem to believe, at least in some aspect, in its "bogeyman". Not only do I not believe in the Christian faith, but I also do not believe in a theistic interpretation of God which maintains a personal relationship with its creation.

 

My tinfoil hat doesn't seem to be going anywhere, unfortunately. But neither is my skepticism of Christian theology. People have their religious experiences, and I believe many of them go beyond what science can currently explain. What am I? Where do I fit? Can any of you relate?

 

EDIT: Shit. Wrong board. Can someone move this to Ex-Christian Spirituality?

 

Right, let's start with the most important issue.  Safety.

 

If you are uncomfortable with the occult, stay away from it.  If even researching it makes you uncomfortable, don't research.  There is one very big danger - the danger of over-reaching yourself, going beyond your own capacity to cope with the bizarre, the instinctual, the frankly wild side of your own psyche and of the spiritual (for want of a better word) realm (whether or not that is viewed as within your own mind or having some objective reality).  Occult ideas, let alone practices, can take you to areas of your mind and subconscious that are disturbing.  If you are not ready or willing to face that, for the sake of your own sanity, stay away.

 

Beyond that - I would say that "occult" is actually a pretty meaningless term, used pejoratively by the religious to vilify that which they do not understand and capable of encompassing a huge variety of ideas and practices - some better than others, some simply amoral and some potentially aimed at wrongdoing.  It may be that you are having trouble because of a hangover from old indoctrinated and almost certainly incorrect ideas of "the occult", which see it as a coherent body of evil doctrine and practice.

 

It is, however you analyze it, pretty odd to maintain a belief in the Christian concept of satan whilst ditching the idea of Christ.  Your best bet at resolving this may be to think through the logic of that position.

 

I am going to say nothing as to the objective reality or unreality of any possible spiritual realm as I don't want to influence your thought processes in how you come to terms with this by my own mere speculation.  Just be aware:

1. If any such exists objectively, it is no more supernatural than this physical reality.  The supernatural does not and cannot exist.  The unexplained may.
2. If any such exists objectively, its' capacity to affect this physical reality is limited by its' intangibility.  The most dangerous monsters you are ever likely to meet are flesh and blood.
3. Whether it exists objectively or not, the issues that arise are in your own mind as you consider and act upon "occult" matters.  Do not seek to deal with that of which you are not reasonably certain you can cope.
4. If it does not exist objectively, your fears and the dangers arise entirely within your own psyche.  That makes them no less real, but makes it all the more illogical to pursue what makes you uncomfortable.

If and when you are sufficiently certain of your own belief system, that is the time to start delving into the "occult".  For the time being, I would counsel that you concentrate on the here and now and on making sure of the logical foundation of your rejection of Christian fables.  Your attitude to the "satanic" should then fall into place.

[masquerade]

I appreciate each of your thorough responses, as well as the lack of judgement. I will reply more in depth after I get off work. Until then, I will digest what I've read.

[masquerade]

I feel as though I should clarify something that I said in an earlier post. I do not believe in a literal devil as Christians describe. The whole thing just seems absurd to me. Still, with that said, I can't get over some of these thoughts. My overly analytical mind tries to reason that, if this "darkness" is real, that must mean the Christians are right to some extent. And, if they're right, that means we were created by a tyrannical, bloodthirsty, evil being who will not hesitate to throw 99.9% of his creation into an eternal torture chamber. If this is the case, that would make my stance on religion as a believer who, instead of ceasing belief, turned his back on a creator he never stopped believing in. Is this the case? I don't know. Cognitive dissonance strikes again.

[florduh]

Fear not any religious or "occult" belief. There is no magic, but there is ego, profit, imagination, skewed perception, hallucination, mental aberrations, and wishful thinking. But there are no actual supernatural boogeyman or invisible powers out to manipulate, punish or "get" you.

[Joshpantera]

I feel as though I should clarify something that I said in an earlier post. I do not believe in a literal devil as Christians describe. The whole thing just seems absurd to me. Still, with that said, I can't get over some of these thoughts. My overly analytical mind tries to reason that, if this "darkness" is real, that must mean the Christians are right to some extent. And, if they're right, that means we were created by a tyrannical, bloodthirsty, evil being who will not hesitate to throw 99.9% of his creation into an eternal torture chamber. If this is the case, that would make my stance on religion as a believer who, instead of ceasing belief, turned his back on a creator he never stopped believing in. Is this the case? I don't know. Cognitive dissonance strikes again.

If you don't believe in a literal devil as Christians describe, then why reason to yourself that if this darkness is real then we were created by a "tyrannical, bloodthirsty, evil being?"

 

A trip to the science verse religion section ought to set the above ideas straight. Why don't you propose the above and see how they handle it over there. The issue of a creator God, any creator God, ventures into treatment too harsh for the spirituality section. And if you want these pesky ideas resolved, the harsh treatment angle is probably what you need to get past it all. 

 

From a spiritual angle, yes, that would make you some type of believer who strayed away but never lost belief. That's where the theological and scientific knowledge may help if want to get both legs in instead of one leg in, one leg out.....

[Orbit]

There is no such thing is evil spirits, Satan, or the like. These things were made up by Christianity. I wouldn't spend any time worrying about it, you'll psych yourself out.

[zuker12]

If i may ask, what has convinced you that this "ultimate evil" exists?

[Deva]

I feel as though I should clarify something that I said in an earlier post. I do not believe in a literal devil as Christians describe. The whole thing just seems absurd to me. Still, with that said, I can't get over some of these thoughts. My overly analytical mind tries to reason that, if this "darkness" is real, that must mean the Christians are right to some extent. And, if they're right, that means we were created by a tyrannical, bloodthirsty, evil being who will not hesitate to throw 99.9% of his creation into an eternal torture chamber. If this is the case, that would make my stance on religion as a believer who, instead of ceasing belief, turned his back on a creator he never stopped believing in. Is this the case? I don't know. Cognitive dissonance strikes again.

 

If a dark force exists, I really don't see how it necessarily follows that everything else Christians claim about God is true. The existence of this power or "darkness" could have always been. Why assume a creator god had any part in it?

[masquerade]

If i may ask, what has convinced you that this "ultimate evil" exists?

 

I'm not convinced. Just suspicious. My reasons? The Bohemian Grove rituals, the blatant symbolism used throughout mainstream media (along with denial without an explanation), experiences of family, friends, and people in general, both in my community and outside of it... Just to name a few. I'm not claiming the first two are necessarily spiritual; I'm just saying it's out there. It's weird. Initiating mock sacrifice ceremonies to pagan gods isn't exactly something I would consider one of my favorite pastimes. Everything we do, we do it for a reason. My question is nothing more than this. Why?

[florduh]

Do you have any video of Bohemian Grove rituals or an eyewitness account from an actual person we can question? Have you figured out there's a media conspiracy promoting EBIL or do you just take someone's word for it? Have you looked for any explanations of reported weird experiences by friends, family, your community, the world, or do you accept fantastic stories at face value and assume something supernatural is behind it all? Do you ever look for the most likely reasons behind things or do you look for and expect to find spooks under the bed?

[masquerade]

 

I feel as though I should clarify something that I said in an earlier post. I do not believe in a literal devil as Christians describe. The whole thing just seems absurd to me. Still, with that said, I can't get over some of these thoughts. My overly analytical mind tries to reason that, if this "darkness" is real, that must mean the Christians are right to some extent. And, if they're right, that means we were created by a tyrannical, bloodthirsty, evil being who will not hesitate to throw 99.9% of his creation into an eternal torture chamber. If this is the case, that would make my stance on religion as a believer who, instead of ceasing belief, turned his back on a creator he never stopped believing in. Is this the case? I don't know. Cognitive dissonance strikes again.

 

If a dark force exists, I really don't see how it necessarily follows that everything else Christians claim about God is true. The existence of this power or "darkness" could have always been. Why assume a creator god had any part in it?

 

 

I don't. I'm only weighing options. Hypothetically, if there is power behind the name of Jesus, why would that be if Jesus was not the Messiah? I'm not trying to preach anything; I'm merely thinking aloud. My goal is to be fully transparent with myself, and let the pieces fall where they will.

[masquerade]

[florduh]

Sorry, but David Icke is an easily and often debunked bunko artist. David Icke would have us believe that the world leaders are shape shifting alien lizards. He is a ridiculous man, but he has found a paying audience among the ill informed and paranoid masses, not unlike David Koresh or Jim Jones or Fox News. Read, demand verification, use logic and rational thinking.

[Orbit]

If you want real, actual peer-reviewed academic sociological research on the Bohemian Grove, see G. William Domhoff's book and website called "Who Rules America?". The goings-on at the Bohemian Grove are simply sophomoric buffoonery-- frat-party type stuff for people with more money than God. There's no mystery, and the only conspiracy is one of plain mutual benefit no different than goes on at any corporate retreat. You are hearing this from an academic sociologist if you'd like to consider the source.

[Joshpantera]

That clip from Alex Jones is something that we kid with at work. I'll periodically break out yelling, "you fools, you fools!" and the guys will crack up laughing. That's some funny shit. Somebody had that playing one day as an example of how fucked up some of our national leaders and public figures really are. What a bunch of jackass's we have for leadership in this country. You have to laugh at the idiocy, or you'll cry. 

 

What I still don't understand is how this role play and ritual has any bearing on the reality of spirits and Satan? 

[masquerade]

Florduh: I'm aware of such, and I'm not defending David Icke's work or views. I only posted that video for the footage itself; not the commentary.

 

Orbit: I'll check it out.

 

Joshpantera: I don't disagree. Our leaders are a bunch of fucking idiots.

[Joshpantera]

The main thing is that there isn't any significant evidence in favor of Satan. Least of all the Bohemian Grove or secret societies and Satanists. Belief in something doesn't make it real nor do numbers of believers or the authority of those who believe.

 

What is it exactly about the Bohemian Grove that you find so compelling?  

[masquerade]

The main thing is that there isn't any significant evidence in favor of Satan. Least of all the Bohemian Grove or secret societies and Satanists. Belief in something doesn't make it real nor do numbers of believers or the authority of those who believe.

 

What is it exactly about the Bohemian Grove that you find so compelling?  

 

The Cremation of Care ceremony, and the denial of those who are confronted about it.

 

 

I honestly found Clinton's response humorous, but as for the rest, these guys seem a bit anxious when confronted.

[zuker12]

My experience with this is... that upon examination, these things start to fall apart.

 

Ill take as an example a mini-celebrity among conspiracists, fundagelicals and witch-haters. John Todd, an obsession of mine, whose stories caused me to almost instantly convert to paranoid fundamentalism. Now, John Todd made many many claims, all of which I cant remember, but there were some that stand out in contrast to others. The gist of it is that there's a multi-generational conspiracy of Satanist/Luciferian witches, who cast demonic spells on rock music, use literature, TV and RPG's among other things to brainwash people into accepting the antichrist. They are supposedly everywhere - law enforcement, politics, economy, literature, even fundamentalist christianity. You name it. He knows this all because he was a Grand Druid on the witch Council of 13 before he converted. Or so he says.

 

As far as outsiders know, and those who dont believe him, he was baptized into Jesus-only brand of christianity in 1968, during the time he was supposed to be an Illuminist witch. The man who headed the church said that Todd testified to him being a witch while in the navy (he was maybe 19 or 20 years old at the time). Later on he said that he went to the army in 1969, which is true, but many other things he told of his army period were not true(his records were never destroyed for instance, and he didnt serve in Vietnam, and only briefly in Germany.)

 

Now, while these are glaring inconsistencies, they are not enough for the true believer who continues to parrot his claims. "I researched it and i wholly believe this man!" "He was framed and you know it you dishonest sinner!" His more outrageous claims are impossible to verify or falsify. Of course he also spoke a lot of bunk about occultism and religion that earlier christians than him claimed, for example, on Halloween. I tried researching some of his claims, and I didnt get none the wiser. Let's see..

 

-A "Zodiac Productions" (or Zodiac Records?) supposedly books and manages 95% of contemporary music, mainly rock music. They were the ones who cast spells on records. He worked with many known artists as the producer of "Zodiac Productions" (or Z productions?). The problem is I couldnt find no trace of a major music company in Texas, or anywhere else in the US, or in the world, that operated within Todd's given timeframe (they were supposed to be the ones who brought The Beatles into the US. That places them in the sixties maybe earlier. Theres a NZ music company, that however werent responsible for signing any contracts with the Beatles, this would be EMI/Capitol records. The only thing they did was record covers of The Beatles in the aftermath of the Beatlemania as far as i could determine.)

 

-John Todd was supposedly the progeny of Frances Collins, who is said to be a prominent witch. I couldnt ascertain whether they had any link at all, since Todd didnt name his parents. Or I didnt spot it. (Someone care to confirm this for me?) A mention was found in Fritz Springmeiers Bloodlines Of The Illuminati, but again, no parents were named and John Todd has been just basically added to the bottom oof the chapter dealing with the Collins bloodline. The hilarously bad of that essay is that he links people to the Collins just because of their last name and because they had moderate success in life or wrote fantasy fiction. No other reason is given. Without giving an explanation, he asserts that the Collins clan broke into the Putnams and Todds. I couldnt find info relating to this, and I also am not a genealogist. Who this Frances Collins is, I dont know. Legends say he was a witch and either got or didnt get killed iin the Salem witch trials. Hmm...

 

-Supposedly, the Salem witch trials were started as a way of killing christians by Todd's ancestor Frances Collins. This is hard to verify, as there is a shitload of research done on that event that speak of a different history. Of course most killed in Salem would be atleast nominally christian, and since it was predominantly puritan, which can be a rather agressive sect (name speaks volumes) its hard to ascertain. The link given was this, that Ann Putham, who was supposedly related to the Collins, spread the rumours of witchcraft because she was herself a witch. This is mostly following Springmeiers logic. The mayor of Salem was also a witch, on some accounts. Couldnt find any link between Frances Collins and Salem, nor Putham and Collins (this link i only looked at coincidentally, so i dont know. Mayybe? I am disinclined to believe Springmeier because a lot of his drivel is unexplained, nor does he state any sources atleast on the online versions of his materials.)

 

To be continued...