VahnBlue Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Simply headed there to pick out who are the true friends and who are the fake salesperson-like friends(Other than the ones I see regularly outside of the church, because the others live fairly far away). Also to tell each n every last person, who asks why Ive been away, well, why I've been away lol Can't wait for the responses. My old pastor will likely challenging my position. I don't have all the correct ways to every apologetic response, but what matters, is that I won't be moved by the fairy tales that are being believed. I'm probably going to sleep or play on my phone throughout the entire morning sermon. I can just hear all the guilt trips that'll be presented me now. Wish me luck and may the devil bless me ???? I will keep those who are interested in my day around the church people, posted. Also, feel free to provide self input on things I should say to things that could possibly leave me staring down the path of circular arguments, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Have fun! I have no advice for you. If you leave with any friendships intact, it will be an anomaly, at least that was my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LimitedEdition Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 "Why did you come back if you don't believe anymore, VahnBlue? You're here because you can feel the tug in your heart of god calling you back!" and then you'll tell them that you're just here to see your friends and they'll be like uh huhhh.. sureee *wink wink* (you know it's really god who has called you to be here with us today!) and all you'll really be able to do laugh as if they're making a joke and move the conversation on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Well, were I in your position, I would not go back. Therefore I have no advice, but can only wish you well and hope you do identify some real - as opposed to merely religious - friends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I hope all has worked out for you. If you had asked for advice before you had decided to go, my advice would have been not to go to their territory, the church full of Christians, and challenge their beliefs because you put yourself in a most difficult position. You will be deep within Christian territory with no allies on your side. If you must tell various people why you left the church, do it one-on-one and in neutral territory (on the phone, by Internet communication, coffee shop and the like). That way more than one Christian can't join forces and collectively challenge you with their apologetics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VahnBlue Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 I hope all has worked out for you. If you had asked for advice before you had decided to go, my advice would have been not to go to their territory, the church full of Christians, and challenge their beliefs because you put yourself in a most difficult position. You will be deep within Christian territory with no allies on your side. If you must tell various people why you left the church, do it one-on-one and in neutral territory (on the phone, by Internet communication, coffee shop and the like). That way more than one Christian can't join forces and collectively challenge you with their apologetics.I'm well aware, and have done this as such, but in a multi-fire way since I'm I knew most would e attend. I pulled various of them aside, except for the pastor(not too much bothered with him. I shook his hand and left it at that, when he spotted me from the pulpit & after his preaching, he came up and say hi). The talks never really went anywhere but for the most part they just had to accept it(for now at least) and practically as for me to continue to hang out with them as friends, even if it's only outside of the ACTUAL church building. Even though, technically, a "church" can be anywhere as long as a group of Christians are gathered at whatever area they are in. None bothered to pester me about my standings after the talks or hit me with the salesperson friendship, yet, at least. We just agreed to disagree and was asked to come hang out to play sports, movie gatherings, etc. There's only two I haven't put aside yet, the Pastor and one other individual who I know likes to be very challenging and analytical. Surprisingly it seems like he tosses out his smarts and critical genius(he's a math & engineering wiz who graduated from a tech school) in the garbage, when it comes to his belief in Christianity. That doesn't mean he wouldn't like to sit there and debate all day on my personal standing, which I'm in no mood for. Him & the pastor are my tough cookies and I avoid them for the most part. I'm waiting on word of mouth by surpringly the several Ive told OUTSIDE the church months ago, haven't so much as spoken a word about it to others. The rest I told today, all had no clue. They gossip about everything else but kept my deconversion amongst themselves, as individuals? Odd, but respectful, I suppose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesaway Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 My best guess is that they're probably afraid if someone else found out about your departure. You're a reminder of their own fears, and if someone like you could lose your faith, what does that say for the rest of them? Keep your interactions with your former congregation to a bare minimum. Short and simple is best, and you don't owe them explanations. I've been doing fine. I've just been busy. Life's picking up for me outside of church. I don't have time to stay and talk right now, my friends and I have to be somewhere. It sounds like you're one of the lucky few here who left with good friends. You really lucked out, and it sounds like you've got some true friends on your side. Hang on to them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VahnBlue Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 My best guess is that they're probably afraid if someone else found out about your departure. You're a reminder of their own fears, and if someone like you could lose your faith, what does that say for the rest of them? Keep your interactions with your former congregation to a bare minimum. Short and simple is best, and you don't owe them explanations. I've been doing fine. I've just been busy. Life's picking up for me outside of church. I don't have time to stay and talk right now, my friends and I have to be somewhere. It sounds like you're one of the lucky few here who left with good friends. You really lucked out, and it sounds like you've got some true friends on your side. Hang on to them! Only time will tell for the rest but I know, for sure, 4 of them are fine and have accepted it. One I knew for almost 10 years now, even before I converted back to Christianity, so it goes beyond religion. No telling how much cognitive dissonance, I must've caused though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Sounds like it worked out well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I lost all my friends when i left church, the only reason they were nice to me afterward was the hope that they could reconvert me back into the church. No thanks, being alone is a price i had to pay for leaving church, but it's a tab i am glad to pick up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VahnBlue Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 I lost all my friends when i left church, the only reason they were nice to me afterward was the hope that they could reconvert me back into the church. No thanks, being alone is a price i had to pay for leaving church, but it's a tab i am glad to pick up.Those are the ones that I am waiting to show their true colors, so I can weed them out. As far as being alone, I'm sorry to hear that. I would gladly pay that price too. I'm very lucky to have established multiple friendships with other atheistic friends, growing up in to adulthood. I managed to hold a few religious friends after my deconversion but even if it weren't possible, I still would've had my atheist friends regardless of the fact. Now, who knows if I were to ever have to leave the state for job purposes, that would suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesaway Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Only time will tell for the rest but I know, for sure, 4 of them are fine and have accepted it. One I knew for almost 10 years now, even before I converted back to Christianity, so it goes beyond religion. No telling how much cognitive dissonance, I must've caused though. You probably caused them a TON of cognitive dissonance, especially if you were one of the more devoted ones there who took their faith so seriously. Time will tell whether or not the rest of them will continue to have a place in your life. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. Every single friend/acquaintance I thought I made during the 2 years I spent at the last church I went to all disappeared from my life. The people at the xtian dating site I was a member of at that time all turned against me and shut me out in that site's chatroom when I told them I wouldn't be joining the church due to personal circumstances that year, with one exception. It really hurt, but now I understand that they were a bunch of phonies that never cared about me to begin with. Fortunately I had friends outside of church, and we've known each other for years, even before my rodeo with church. Life kind of took us in different directions at that time, so we didn't really see much of each other for a bit. We were able to pick up right where we left off, and it's been gravy ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VahnBlue Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Some of the religious mess I heard today(for those interested). Parts of the morning sermon, that I somewhat tried to pay attention to, involved that such as groveling(aka worshipping, begging, and pleading). The pastor indirectly accusing whomever within the congregation of being lukewarm Christians(aka guilt trips), blah blah blah, then ending the sermon with a prayer of several things(aka trying to go against "God's plan" in favor of their personal happiness). Then asking to see if there were any newcomers to the church, that morning. There were a couple and they all clapped for them. I didn't clap for obvious reasons. I felt my cult radar going off. I started getting flashbacks from those pyramid scheme conventions. You know the ones! The MLM invites that you got tricked into going into, you find out that the majority are already in on it and have a part to play in the presentation, and they all clap for you as you enter the house that's hosting this meeting? Yeah that feeling. Anyway... Later on in the morning/afternoon, played a game during lunch with other Christian friends. Saying the first word that comes to mind, seeing what all those words have in common, and then all of us trying to say the same vague word thats bring the one that was most common, together; however, you can't repeat any. RIDICULOUSLY long story short, we ended up with the one person saying Life. That was the pretty much the most vague said without repeating a word. Until, after someone made a hint, they all decided to say God. I said nothing. They went around to ask each & everyone if they all said the same thing, to make sure. They get to me, I just said game over, next game, please lol And enter many group prayers in public, over lunch and, later, dinner; whilst I stand or sit there, being polite as possible as they all think and talk to themselves(creepy now that think about it and now no longer brainwashed). Though I did find it a bit odd how I caught a few high ranking members of the church(like pastors, deacons, elders, etc) with their eyes wide open as I did. I'm on to you money grubbing asshats. Why aren't you're eyes closed like the rest of em, buddy?! Do you not believe?! Maybe I'm just being paranoid & uppity? lol Even though I believe the elders(the old ass people practically above the pastor) are probably liers. They have to know where all that money is going and keep up charades and appearances to keep the pigs headed for the slaughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 ^^^Sounds similar to the last church service I went to, a couple years ago. Thanks for going and checking that out for us and taking the bullet! I like your description of how some of the uppity-ups didn't close their eyes during prayer! I used to like looking around during the prayers and seeing who else wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VahnBlue Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 ^^^Sounds similar to the last church service I went to, a couple years ago. Thanks for going and checking that out for us and taking the bullet! I like your description of how some of the uppity-ups didn't close their eyes during prayer! I used to like looking around during the prayers and seeing who else wasn't. Maybe that's what they were doing, who knows. I do know that the ones in power have to be lying though...they reap most of the benefits. I doubt there is ANY church where the high ranks aren't corrupt in some kind of way. You're very much welcome though! It was something I had to do, for myself. I'll never be able to get sucked back in that death cult. It was hard trying to keep my tongue on things. I heard so much hypocrisy, especially when it came to other religions & calling them a cult. One of my christian friends, laughs at the Mormon churches, whenever he sees one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Though I did find it a bit odd how I caught a few high ranking members of the church(like pastors, deacons, elders, etc) with their eyes wide open as I did. I'm on to you money grubbing asshats. Why aren't you're eyes closed like the rest of em, buddy?! Do you not believe?! Maybe I'm just being paranoid & uppity? lol They're looking for "targets." Those people who aren't really into the prayers so they can come after either to prey on them or to weed out of the group. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I doubt there is ANY church where the high ranks aren't corrupt in some kind of way. If you mean the top of each denomination, then you may be correct. I do believe, though, that there are ministers and leaders in some churches who are not corrupt. They're simply mistaken. That would be more likely among the smaller churches, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VahnBlue Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Though I did find it a bit odd how I caught a few high ranking members of the church(like pastors, deacons, elders, etc) with their eyes wide open as I did. I'm on to you money grubbing asshats. Why aren't you're eyes closed like the rest of em, buddy?! Do you not believe?! Maybe I'm just being paranoid & uppity? lol They're looking for "targets." Those people who aren't really into the prayers so they can come after either to prey on them or to weed out of the group. mwc That's what I was thinking. You may be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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