Why Does God's Voice Only Speak To The Mentally Ill?

[mymistake]

 

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion . . . "

 

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

Do you hold this truth as self evident, that all men are created?

 

 

 

It is self evident that no men were designed.

[Justus]

So no right to life, no right to liberty, no right to pursuit of happiness?

[Justus]

Well, I see you left, so I will just finish with the following...

Gen 5:1-2
n the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
 

So the ability to communicate using the spoken word is the product of evolution?

I find that an interesting concept since man has to hear the spoken word in order to learn how to speak, or at least that is the evidence demonstrated from feral children.

 

http://listverse.com/2008/03/07/10-modern-cases-of-feral-children/

[yunea]

Are you implying that only being created by God makes people worth anything? How could that possibly be true?

 

As for 'all men are created equal'... People aren't born equal, with equal chances to live a good life. How is a kid who is born with brain damage to a drug using mom equal to a kid born to a nice upper-class home with parents financially and mentally able and willing to support the kid?

[gall]

I never understood why modern day Christians will dismiss people who claim to be hearing from God, but believe 100% in the Bible authors.

 

But then if God spoke to someone in a dream, then it gains credibility. I've noticed if someone claims god told them something in a dream then people think it might be a real message from god.

 

they don't seem to dismiss easily near death experience in children that returns some fantastic sci fi like journey to heaven and back... oh wait most of them come out as liars later...

 

The ridiculousness never ends with christians.

[Justus]

Let me first thank you for the 'insult free' rebuttal, and regarding the God made man reference in the previous post, it was used to illustrate the male and female being man, and thus the principle of the founding fathers of this Nation being that all individuals both man and woman if you will, are entitled to the same rights and protections  in both law and equity.  Yet the law does nothing in fact except bring forth hope, it is the people themselves who establish the right by their conduct.

 

 In regards to God only making people worth anything, then how much more will people be worth without common assent.  But the story has been foretold so there is no need of me to say a word. 

[gall]

 

Drawing lots for decisions is a form of magic (divination), happens a lot in the Bible.

George Washington is quoted as saying that a Nation could not be rightly governed without God and the Bible. Which I'll say you will probably disagree with.

But if I asked you if a think a Nation can be rightly governed without Truth and Knowledge of History? would you say that is probably true?

 

There is old saying, the more things change the more they stay the same.

 

 

Just because someone coined a saying does not give truth or validity to it. There are plenty of bigotted sayings in the south and in those circles but no sane accepting person would count them as valid.

 

things are constantly changing they are never staying the same or none of us would exist nor would the universe. Things move and change daily and in every tiny amount of time passing. just because you can't see it or refuse to undestand that the universe has been here changing long before you got squeezed out means nothing.

 

There is no truth in much of ancient history. Can you accuratly tell me what really happened 8000 years ago? Geology can help us find out what was going on ecologically and sometimes about the civilazations that may have been there but really other than some mummies and ancient artifacts we really are guessing.

 

the one thing that doesn't change all that fast around here is us. We take thousands of years to change anything because we are stubborn and irrational most of the time. the thing that drives us is curiousity and for me there is no curiosity in religion or gods. With that we already know what to expect and we can see what a lack of change in that mode has brought us. People kill each other by the 10's of thousands over gods. it is small and inane.

[mymistake]

So no right to life, no right to liberty, no right to pursuit of happiness?

 

That does not follow.  Nothing I have said suggests any of that.  Generally I am for human rights.

 

Well, I see you left, so I will just finish with the following...

 

Gen 5:1-2

n the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 

So the ability to communicate using the spoken word is the product of evolution?

I find that an interesting concept since man has to hear the spoken word in order to learn how to speak, or at least that is the evidence demonstrated from feral children.

 

http://listverse.com/2008/03/07/10-modern-cases-of-feral-children/

 

Genesis is a myth.

 

Yes the spoken word evolved.  Clearly our ancestors were communicating with facial expressions and gestures long before complex spoken language was possible.  

 

Feral children do not get a culture.  This is different than humanity's ability to develop culture.

 

 

Let me first thank you for the 'insult free' rebuttal, and regarding the God made man reference in the previous post, it was used to illustrate the male and female being man, and thus the principle of the founding fathers of this Nation being that all individuals both man and woman if you will, are entitled to the same rights and protections  in both law and equity.  Yet the law does nothing in fact except bring forth hope, it is the people themselves who establish the right by their conduct.

 

 In regards to God only making people worth anything, then how much more will people be worth without .  But the story has been foretold so there is no need of me to say a word. 

 

Genesis has nothing to do with the Founding Fathers creating the United States.

 

Back then people in power (men) didn't value women so they didn't bother mentioning them.

[florduh]

 

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion . . . "

 

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

Do you hold this truth as self evident, that all men are created equal?

 

Do you realize the founders of this country meant that WHITE MEN were created equal in the eyes of the government? Women and other races were not granted equal rights by these people, and don't forget that people are created by a biological process, not magic. I venture to say that the idea that women should not have a say in government came from Christian indoctrination, but the evidence is clear that pains were taken from the start to assure the separation of church and state.

[Justus]

 

 

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion . . . "

 

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

Do you hold this truth as self evident, that all men are created equal?

 

Do you realize the founders of this country meant that WHITE MEN were created equal in the eyes of the government? Women and other races were not granted equal rights by these people, and don't forget that people are created by a biological process, not magic. I venture to say that the idea that women should not have a say in government came from Christian indoctrination, but the evidence is clear that pains were taken from the start to assure the separation of church and state.

 

Let’s see, since you used the term ‘meant’ it would indicate that it doesn’t actually make any statement to that effect  in the Declaration lest you had used the word ‘written’.  So is your presumption based upon factual evidence or was it some ‘special knowledge’ given only ‘those’ like you were given.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, which among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-

 

Let’s see, since you did not include any ‘material’ evidence for your accusation other than the conjecture of your imagination, then obviously you can provide something material in the way of showing where they made such statements in support of accusation you made against these men.  

 

Some might even consider your comments as slanderous unless you can produce some form of recorded journals, letters or articles written by the founding fathers themselves as evidence of the accusation that you are making.  Having read a sufficient number of their writing the thing I realize is your accusation has no merit, I will conclude by saying that the answer to your question is the same as it was.

[Penguin]

The only time we hear that God spoke to someone, that person is being hauled off to the mental hospital to be given medications that prevent the misfirings of their brains. Hearing voices is a known symptom of mental illness.

 

When Christians say god "spoke" to them, it means they just kind of had a feeling in their hearts, not that they actually heard a voice. They "hear" their own thoughts, which is not the same as hearing a voice.

 

Why doesn't God speak in a voice to people who are NOT mentally ill?

 

I am mentally ill. In addition to complex non-combat-related PTSD, I also have bipolar type 1 disorder. I am moderately educated about the former and more extensively educated about the latter. I used to believe I could hear God's voice. When I realized I could not, it made me doubt my salvation. Then I would have experiences that rekindled my faith. Back and forth I went, but I never once heard the voice of God in the way a schizophrenic or psychotic might have an auditory hallucination. I wondered why God would speak to people in the Old Testament in an audible voice, and even in the New Testament.

 

When The Holy Spirit came, it seems God was rendered essentially mute, leaving behind a sort of Robin Goodfellow figure in his stead. Most Christians, in fact, know there's something called the Holy Spirit, but they don't know much more than that. Supposedly, like Santa Claus, he hands out gifts (a completely bullshit concept brought about by the misinterpretation of a few verses). There are denominations within Christianity centered around the Holy Spirit--charismatic churches--but their understanding of the Holy Spirit borders on non-biblical; it's as if we were given Batman and they attempt to make him into Superman.

 

Many clergymen told me that the Holy Spirit's presence was the reason God did not speak in an audible voice. I asked why God would not provide a clear form of communication between him and his followers.

 

"Because it takes faith to know God."

 

But why does it take faith?

 

"Because that's how God designed it. It's not for us to understand. It's for us to obey."

 

So God wants us to blindly follow him without asking questions? What about Proverbs 1:7? "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge..." So those who fear the Lord aren't allowed to have knowledge of him? Or is it saying that you have to be afraid for your soul and your life, and that's the smart thing to do? Why would God not want us to ask questions?

 

Oh, wait. That's the clergy. Religion suffers under questions, under examination. It falls apart, and religion is a very useful tool for control and income. Sadly, it catches well-meaning people in its wake, and they're suckered into becoming part of the controlling force. Christians don't hear the voice of God because:

 

A) The Holy Spirit is there to guide them in his own Robin Goodfellow-esque way of riddles and games,

 

Their lack of faith prohibits them from hearing God (another explanation I've heard), or

 

C) God--including the Holy Spirit--doesn't exist.

 

Are those the only three options? Maybe, maybe not. They're the only ones I could come up with. The only people who hear an audible voice are either suffering an auditory hallucination, or they are frauds. A person who is willing to suffer a stay in a mental hospital for their belief in the voice of God is sincere in that belief, but the voice rarely tells them to do anything good. Furthermore, that voice does not persist once medication is administered and begins to take effect. If it really were the voice of the Almighty, I would think he could get over a small bump like psych medication.

 

As for the frauds, they can be ferreted out. Ask enough questions of a liar, and they'll eventually break. Liars have to remember their lies, and humans--unlike elephants--are forgetful.

 

God does not exist. The Holy Spirit does not exist. Jesus Christ--as the Son of God--did not and does not exist. It's kind of hard for them to speak up if they never had a voice to begin with.

[mymistake]

 

 

 

Let’s see, since you did not include any ‘material’ evidence for your accusation other than the conjecture of your imagination, then obviously you can provide something material in the way of showing where they made such statements in support of accusation you made against these men.  

 

 

 

Look troll, some of your precious Founding Fathers owned black people.  Owned them like property.  And none of the Founding Fathers allowed women to vote.  These are documented facts.

 

 

Why don't you troll somewhere else?

[Ravenstar]

Well, I see you left, so I will just finish with the following...

 

Gen 5:1-2

n the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 

So the ability to communicate using the spoken word is the product of evolution?

I find that an interesting concept since man has to hear the spoken word in order to learn how to speak, or at least that is the evidence demonstrated from feral children.

 

http://listverse.com/2008/03/07/10-modern-cases-of-feral-children/

You do not understand…biology… or evolution… or developmental physiology/psychology… or linguistics.

 

Chimpanzees have knowledge that isn't instinctual, but cultural.. i.e.: some chimps have certain skills in certain areas, that they pass down through communication and learning from watching others, which are different from other groups. (best practices for cracking open nuts is one example…if you take a young chimpanzee from one group and put him in the group that cracks nuts with a rock - he will learn that skill. An Orangutan washes clothes, imitating the people she has been exposed to. Koko, the Gorilla, has learned sign language - she doesn't imitate - she uses it in context.) So do many other animals, crows, elephants, orca's, etc... Language is cultural… communication is instinctual (though much more evolved in social creatures). Even ants communicate… very well actually.

 

Yes, our ancestors passed down language… at first very simple, but then growing in complexity. It's a product of evolution, not just Darwinian, but cultural evolution as well.(yes, it's a thing) Feral children will copy the animals they have witnessed… which is a form of communication. They will howl, bark, grunt, growl, screech, use body language… they aren't without language - just not human language. The way a child acquires language is a very complex thing, and is related to the stages of development that make sense for a young animal… by puberty a lot of this pathways in the brain for language (and sounds) are already hardwired - making it difficult to attain those basic skills later.

 

You have to actually study child development to really understand this. It makes sense then that higher social species have longer childhoods because of the skills they must learn from the parent, and their society. If you study animals you will see that the more intelligent the species the longer the young stay with the parents, relatively. If it was all instinctual then all animals would just lay eggs and walk away. Young animals wouldn't need parents at all.

 

However, It's apparent from studying animals, especially primates, that social behaviours are evolutionary (lemurs have very basic communication skills, monkeys have simple communication skills, apes have more complex communication skills, we have the most complex communication skills). Language makes it possible to cooperate and share information.. a pretty effective survival skill for a social species.. the better we can communicate the better we can cooperate, and survive.

 

Social species learn essential skills by being exposed to their culture, and adult behaviour. This is evolutionary. Social skills are too complex and variable to be hardwired as instinct. This is why we have a prefrontal cortex, it's for THINKING, not just reacting.

 

So… some BASIC tidbits on evolutionary and cultural evolution…and developmental science.

 

I suggest that taking sound bites from articles without understanding the theories behind them is, well, not the best way to understand things.

[florduh]

 

 

 

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion . . . "

 

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

Do you hold this truth as self evident, that all men are created equal?

 

Do you realize the founders of this country meant that WHITE MEN were created equal in the eyes of the government? Women and other races were not granted equal rights by these people, and don't forget that people are created by a biological process, not magic. I venture to say that the idea that women should not have a say in government came from Christian indoctrination, but the evidence is clear that pains were taken from the start to assure the separation of church and state.

 

Let’s see, since you used the term ‘meant’ it would indicate that it doesn’t actually make any statement to that effect  in the Declaration lest you had used the word ‘written’.  So is your presumption based upon factual evidence or was it some ‘special knowledge’ given only ‘those’ like you were given.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, which among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-

 

Let’s see, since you did not include any ‘material’ evidence for your accusation other than the conjecture of your imagination, then obviously you can provide something material in the way of showing where they made such statements in support of accusation you made against these men.  

 

Some might even consider your comments as slanderous unless you can produce some form of recorded journals, letters or articles written by the founding fathers themselves as evidence of the accusation that you are making.  Having read a sufficient number of their writing the thing I realize is your accusation has no merit, I will conclude by saying that the answer to your question is the same as it was.

 

History is not in my imagination. The slaveholders who framed the Constitution quite obviously didn't grant equal rights to blacks and females since it took many, many decades before this wrong was officially corrected. That everyone is created equal in the eyes of the government is a rather recent idea. Biblical mythology also shows preferred races and gender, and that's not imagination either.

[Ravenstar]

Sorry… is he saying that slavery didn't exist during the forming of America? Or that the founding fathers weren't slave owners? Am I understanding this correctly?

 

 

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/which-founding-fathers-owned-slaves/question-1471259/?link=ibaf&q=&esrc=s

[Justus]

 

 

 

 

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion . . . "

 

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp

Do you hold this truth as self evident, that all men are created equal?

 

Do you realize the founders of this country meant that WHITE MEN were created equal in the eyes of the government? Women and other races were not granted equal rights by these people, and don't forget that people are created by a biological process, not magic. I venture to say that the idea that women should not have a say in government came from Christian indoctrination, but the evidence is clear that pains were taken from the start to assure the separation of church and state.

 

Let’s see, since you used the term ‘meant’ it would indicate that it doesn’t actually make any statement to that effect  in the Declaration lest you had used the word ‘written’.  So is your presumption based upon factual evidence or was it some ‘special knowledge’ given only ‘those’ like you were given.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, which among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-

 

Let’s see, since you did not include any ‘material’ evidence for your accusation other than the conjecture of your imagination, then obviously you can provide something material in the way of showing where they made such statements in support of accusation you made against these men.  

 

Some might even consider your comments as slanderous unless you can produce some form of recorded journals, letters or articles written by the founding fathers themselves as evidence of the accusation that you are making.  Having read a sufficient number of their writing the thing I realize is your accusation has no merit, I will conclude by saying that the answer to your question is the same as it was.

 

History is not in my imagination. The slaveholders who framed the Constitution quite obviously didn't grant equal rights to blacks and females since it took many, many decades before this wrong was officially corrected. That everyone is created equal in the eyes of the government is a rather recent idea. Biblical mythology also shows preferred races and gender, and that's not imagination either.

 

 

You do realize that prior to the Revolution that American colonist where subjects to the King of England.   If you knew that you would know that as subjects the Sovereign King owns everything, including his subjects.  

The following is the Proclamation regarding the men running his plantations.   So how could they be slave owners before the Revolution if they didn't own anything.

 

 

 

So where in the Constitution does it state that women didn't have rights, that was the mindset of the people in the States.

As George Washington stated, A Nation can not be rightly ruled with God and the Bible.

 

Note that as Jesus taught, it is not what a man hear or reads that defiles him, it is the words out of his mouth.

 

Gen 5:1 & 2 "In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

 

Since man is the creation, being both male and female, the fact they wrote all men are created equal has nothing to do with 'white men' only.  But as written, he that is of God hears God's words.

 

Like I said you didn't have any proof your conjecture, moreover, the Constitution clearly opened to the door for the abolishment of slavery with 20 years within the document itself.  If that was not their intention why do you think it was placed there?   

 

So following the revolution, what do yo do just kick the people out  in a land and culture amongst godless white people that have no respect for the rights that all men are endowed with.  According to historical records, following the Civil war the people in the County where I lived took all the slaves they own and slaughtered them upon hearing of the Emancipation Proclamation 

 

So you claim there is no Creator, then what did man just magically appear?   Would not Nature itself be the Creator if evolution is true, but yet you even deny you own beliefs.  So you deny that all men, both male and female are created equal, then what were you born like Jesus, without a biological father? or a Spirit without the Truth?  I can only speak for myself but I am confident in the faith that I was born of a male and female, and of the Spirit and Word,

 

now my little buddy the Monkeman,  he can't communicate with spoken word because that was a Gift of God given only unto his children.

[sdelsolray]

This one is quite pathetic.  

 

Not. Worth. Any. Time. Whatsoever.  

Not. Even. For. The. Lurkers.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Hmm...  A history lesson from one who doesn't even understand the difference between Evolution and Abiogenesis...  Seems a bit suspect to me.

[duderonomy]

No Justus, we don't believe that man just appeared by magic.

We believe that a group of invisible Sky-Gods made a man from the dirt, and a woman from man's rib, thus making them equal. Then a talking serpent convinced the rib-woman to eat magic fruit from a magical tree. Really, Justus, I don't know where you get your ideas about us.

 

Maybe you should just let the monkey type for a while.

[mymistake]

So in Troll World:

 

Humans are God's children because God made them.

 

Monkeys aren't God's children because God made them.

 

 

[Penguin]

Was Justus hired as the cheap entertainment, or something? I honestly can't believe that he believes the shit he's been spewing.

[2PhiloVoid]

The only time we hear that God spoke to someone, that person is being hauled off to the mental hospital to be given medications that prevent the misfirings of their brains. Hearing voices is a known symptom of mental illness.

 

When Christians say god "spoke" to them, it means they just kind of had a feeling in their hearts, not that they actually heard a voice. They "hear" their own thoughts, which is not the same as hearing a voice.

 

Why doesn't God speak in a voice to people who are NOT mentally ill?

 

...well, because the mentally ill are the only ones willing to actually wear their tin-foil helmets without worrying about making a fashion statement...

[duderonomy]

 

The only time we hear that God spoke to someone, that person is being hauled off to the mental hospital to be given medications that prevent the misfirings of their brains. Hearing voices is a known symptom of mental illness.

 

When Christians say god "spoke" to them, it means they just kind of had a feeling in their hearts, not that they actually heard a voice. They "hear" their own thoughts, which is not the same as hearing a voice.

 

Why doesn't God speak in a voice to people who are NOT mentally ill?

 

...well, because the mentally ill are the only ones willing to actually wear their tin-foil helmets without worrying about making a fashion statement...

 

Could your God heal them?

[2PhiloVoid]

 

 

The only time we hear that God spoke to someone, that person is being hauled off to the mental hospital to be given medications that prevent the misfirings of their brains. Hearing voices is a known symptom of mental illness.

 

When Christians say god "spoke" to them, it means they just kind of had a feeling in their hearts, not that they actually heard a voice. They "hear" their own thoughts, which is not the same as hearing a voice.

 

Why doesn't God speak in a voice to people who are NOT mentally ill?

 

...well, because the mentally ill are the only ones willing to actually wear their tin-foil helmets without worrying about making a fashion statement...

 

Could your God heal them?

 

 

Sure,  ...........in a somewhat Cessational kind of way, Dude.  (No, I did not say "Sensational" kind of way.  There is a difference, and I'm not on Benny Hinn's payroll. ) 

 

Peace

2PhiloVoid

[duderonomy]

 

 

 

The only time we hear that God spoke to someone, that person is being hauled off to the mental hospital to be given medications that prevent the misfirings of their brains. Hearing voices is a known symptom of mental illness.

 

When Christians say god "spoke" to them, it means they just kind of had a feeling in their hearts, not that they actually heard a voice. They "hear" their own thoughts, which is not the same as hearing a voice.

 

Why doesn't God speak in a voice to people who are NOT mentally ill?

 

...well, because the mentally ill are the only ones willing to actually wear their tin-foil helmets without worrying about making a fashion statement...

 

Could your God heal them?

 

 

Sure,  ...........in a somewhat Cessational kind of way, Dude.  (No, I did not say "Sensational" kind of way.  There is a difference, and I'm not on Benny Hinn's payroll. ) 

 

Peace

2PhiloVoid

 

 

So God's power petered out when Peter petered out?  Or, we have the Bible, so we don't need to spend anymore on advertising? 

 

Even though it wouldn't cost us anything to keep advertising?