Are You Part Of A Cult?

[Storm]

So, I ran across this article, in of all places, the CARM website. I found it interesting in that it describes Christianity almost to a T.

 

For those that want the quickie version, I present:

 

 

 

1. Submission:

     1. Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.

     2. Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.

     3. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

2. Exclusivity

     1. Their group is the only true religious system, or one of the few true remnants of God's people.

3. Persecution complex

     1. Us against them mentality. Therefore, when someone (inside or outside of the group) corrects the group in doctrine and/or behavior, it is interpreted as persecution, which then is interpreted as validation. 

4. Control

     1. Control of members' actions and thinking through repeated indoctrination and/or threats of loss of salvation, or a place to live, or receiving curses from God, etc.

5. Isolation

     1. Minimizing contact of church members with those outside the group. This facilitates a further control over the thinking and practices of the members by the leadership.

6. Love Bombing

     1. Showing great attention and love to a person in the group by others in the group, to help transfer emotional dependence to the group.

7. Special Knowledge

     1. Instructions and/or knowledge are sometimes said to be received by a leader(s) from God. This leader then informs the members.

     2. The Special Knowledge can be received through visions, dreams, or new interpretations of sacred scriptures such as the Bible.

8. Indoctrination

     1. The teachings of the group are repeatedly drilled into the members, but the indoctrination usually occurs around Special Knowledge.

9. Salvation

     1. Salvation from the judgment of God is maintained through association and/or submission with the group, its authority, and/or its Special Knowledge.

10. Group Think

     1. The group's coherence is maintained by the observance to policies handed down from those in authority.

     2. There is an internal enforcement of policies by members who reward "proper" behavior, and those who perform properly are rewarded with further inclusion and acceptance by the group.

11. Cognitive Dissonance

     1. Avoidance of critical thinking and/or maintaining logically impossible beliefs and/or beliefs that are inconsistent with other beliefs held by the group.

     2. Avoidance of and/or denial of any facts that might contradict the group's belief system.

12. Shunning

     1. Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled.

13. Gender Roles

     1. Control of gender roles and definitions.

     2. Severe control of gender roles sometimes leads to sexual exploitation.

14. Appearance Standards

     1. Often a common appearance is required and maintained. For instance, women might wear prairie dresses, and/or their hair in buns, and/or no makeup, and/or the men might all wear white short-sleeved shirts, and/or without beards, or all wear beards.

 

Just a simple examination of the church I attend irregularly, I can list 1 through 11 as things that are taught in the church to varying degrees and the last three are taught more subtly, but they are taught. 

 

How is Christianity not like any of the aspects listed in this article?

 

So, upon seeing this, how does your church stack up or how does your belief stack up, all you Christians out there?

 

Does what you believe classify you as a cult?

 

I would say that if you can answer yes to more than 50% of these, I suspect you should have an issue with what you believe.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Yeah, good list. 

 

The funny thing, despite Slick's article against cult's claims of special knowledge, is that Slick himself isn't far from that.  Even in the beginning of the article, he says this:

 

"Generally, it takes a trained person who can identify unhealthy patterns and teachings as compared to healthy ones and can then identify a cult."

 

A "trained person" like Slick?

[Ravenstar]

Irony at it's best.

[ironhorse]

So, I ran across this article, in of all places, the CARM website. I found it interesting in that it describes Christianity almost to a T.

 

For those that want the quickie version, I present:

 

 

 

1. Submission:

     1. Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.

     2. Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.

     3. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

2. Exclusivity

     1. Their group is the only true religious system, or one of the few true remnants of God's people.

3. Persecution complex

     1. Us against them mentality. Therefore, when someone (inside or outside of the group) corrects the group in doctrine and/or behavior, it is interpreted as persecution, which then is interpreted as validation. 

4. Control

     1. Control of members' actions and thinking through repeated indoctrination and/or threats of loss of salvation, or a place to live, or receiving curses from God, etc.

5. Isolation

     1. Minimizing contact of church members with those outside the group. This facilitates a further control over the thinking and practices of the members by the leadership.

6. Love Bombing

     1. Showing great attention and love to a person in the group by others in the group, to help transfer emotional dependence to the group.

7. Special Knowledge

     1. Instructions and/or knowledge are sometimes said to be received by a leader(s) from God. This leader then informs the members.

     2. The Special Knowledge can be received through visions, dreams, or new interpretations of sacred scriptures such as the Bible.

8. Indoctrination

     1. The teachings of the group are repeatedly drilled into the members, but the indoctrination usually occurs around Special Knowledge.

9. Salvation

     1. Salvation from the judgment of God is maintained through association and/or submission with the group, its authority, and/or its Special Knowledge.

10. Group Think

     1. The group's coherence is maintained by the observance to policies handed down from those in authority.

     2. There is an internal enforcement of policies by members who reward "proper" behavior, and those who perform properly are rewarded with further inclusion and acceptance by the group.

11. Cognitive Dissonance

     1. Avoidance of critical thinking and/or maintaining logically impossible beliefs and/or beliefs that are inconsistent with other beliefs held by the group.

     2. Avoidance of and/or denial of any facts that might contradict the group's belief system.

12. Shunning

     1. Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled.

13. Gender Roles

     1. Control of gender roles and definitions.

     2. Severe control of gender roles sometimes leads to sexual exploitation.

14. Appearance Standards

     1. Often a common appearance is required and maintained. For instance, women might wear prairie dresses, and/or their hair in buns, and/or no makeup, and/or the men might all wear white short-sleeved shirts, and/or without beards, or all wear beards.

 

Just a simple examination of the church I attend irregularly, I can list 1 through 11 as things that are taught in the church to varying degrees and the last three are taught more subtly, but they are taught. 

 

How is Christianity not like any of the aspects listed in this article?

 

So, upon seeing this, how does your church stack up or how does your belief stack up, all you Christians out there?

 

Does what you believe classify you as a cult?

 

I would say that if you can answer yes to more than 50% of these, I suspect you should have an issue with what you believe.

 

 

"So, I ran across this article, in of all places, the CARM website. I found it interesting in that it describes Christianity almost to a T."

 

 

 

You found it on CARM because it was showing ways to identify a cult. Cults are dangerous. I agree.

It's a good Christian apologetic site.

 

If you think this describes Christianity to a T, then we have very different views of the Christian faith.

 

I can answer NO to all of the questions.

[Ravenstar]

No, you can't. But you are welcome to try!  

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

 

"So, I ran across this article, in of all places, the CARM website. I found it interesting in that it describes Christianity almost to a T."

 

 

 

You found it on CARM because it was showing ways to identify a cult. Cults are dangerous. I agree.

It's a good Christian apologetic site.

 

If you think this describes Christianity to a T, then we have very different views of the Christian faith.

 

I can answer NO to all of the questions.

 

 

 

CARM is one of the most bizarre collections of crazy fundies I've ever seen.

[mymistake]

 

If you think this describes Christianity to a T, then we have very different views of the Christian faith.

 

I can answer NO to all of the questions.

 

 

 

Thank you Ironhorse for testifying that:

 

 

1.1  You can't trust pastors, priests, Jesus or God

1.2  There are no prophets, Gods or Sons of Gods.

1.3  We don't have to submit ourselves to God or Christ.

 

2  Christianity is no better for salvation than any other religion.

 

3  Christians are not singled out for persecution

 

4  God doesn't care what people do or think.  It doesn't matter.

 

5  Christians are not called to be set apart from the world.

 

7  There is no prophesy, divine vision, divine inspiration, sacred text or message.

 

8  Minors should not be taught Christianity

 

9  Christianity does not save anybody.

 

10  People should openly question the teaching of pastors, priests and the Bible.

 

11  The Bible is wrong about many topics and should be called out when it is in error.

 

12  Christians should not shun anybody nor engaged in any kind of culture war.

 

13  It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman.  There is no special role for either and women are not the weaker sex.

 

14  Christian modesty customs should be ignored.

 

 

 

We hear your answer and applaud the ramifications!

[ironhorse]

 

 

If you think this describes Christianity to a T, then we have very different views of the Christian faith.

 

I can answer NO to all of the questions.

 

 

 

Thank you Ironhorse for testifying that:

 

 

1.1  You can't trust pastors, priests, Jesus or God

1.2  There are no prophets, Gods or Sons of Gods.

1.3  We don't have to submit ourselves to God or Christ.

 

2  Christianity is no better for salvation than any other religion.

 

3  Christians are not singled out for persecution

 

4  God doesn't care what people do or think.  It doesn't matter.

 

5  Christians are not called to be set apart from the world.

 

7  There is no prophesy, divine vision, divine inspiration, sacred text or message.

 

8  Minors should not be taught Christianity

 

9  Christianity does not save anybody.

 

10  People should openly question the teaching of pastors, priests and the Bible.

 

11  The Bible is wrong about many topics and should be called out when it is in error.

 

12  Christians should not shun anybody nor engaged in any kind of culture war.

 

13  It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman.  There is no special role for either and women are not the weaker sex.

 

14  Christian modesty customs should be ignored.

 

 

 

We hear your answer and applaud the ramifications!

 

 

 

 

Those are your answers to the questions, not mine.

[mymistake]

 

 

 

If you think this describes Christianity to a T, then we have very different views of the Christian faith.

 

I can answer NO to all of the questions.

 

 

 

Thank you Ironhorse for testifying that:

 

 

1.1  You can't trust pastors, priests, Jesus or God

1.2  There are no prophets, Gods or Sons of Gods.

1.3  We don't have to submit ourselves to God or Christ.

 

2  Christianity is no better for salvation than any other religion.

 

3  Christians are not singled out for persecution

 

4  God doesn't care what people do or think.  It doesn't matter.

 

5  Christians are not called to be set apart from the world.

 

7  There is no prophesy, divine vision, divine inspiration, sacred text or message.

 

8  Minors should not be taught Christianity

 

9  Christianity does not save anybody.

 

10  People should openly question the teaching of pastors, priests and the Bible.

 

11  The Bible is wrong about many topics and should be called out when it is in error.

 

12  Christians should not shun anybody nor engaged in any kind of culture war.

 

13  It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman.  There is no special role for either and women are not the weaker sex.

 

14  Christian modesty customs should be ignored.

 

 

 

We hear your answer and applaud the ramifications!

 

 

 

 

Those are your answers to the questions, not mine.

 

 

 

Then you lied when you said your answer was no?  This is what no means.  You are trying to have your cake and eat it too . . . otherwise known as talking out of both sides of your mouth.  But go ahead and show us your answers that all paint Christianity as great while still all being "no".

 

Should I start the cricket noises now or wait until you log off for the day?

[sdelsolray]

 

So, I ran across this article, in of all places, the CARM website. I found it interesting in that it describes Christianity almost to a T.

 

For those that want the quickie version, I present:

 

 

 

1. Submission:

     1. Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.

     2. Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.

     3. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

2. Exclusivity

     1. Their group is the only true religious system, or one of the few true remnants of God's people.

3. Persecution complex

     1. Us against them mentality. Therefore, when someone (inside or outside of the group) corrects the group in doctrine and/or behavior, it is interpreted as persecution, which then is interpreted as validation. 

4. Control

     1. Control of members' actions and thinking through repeated indoctrination and/or threats of loss of salvation, or a place to live, or receiving curses from God, etc.

5. Isolation

     1. Minimizing contact of church members with those outside the group. This facilitates a further control over the thinking and practices of the members by the leadership.

6. Love Bombing

     1. Showing great attention and love to a person in the group by others in the group, to help transfer emotional dependence to the group.

7. Special Knowledge

     1. Instructions and/or knowledge are sometimes said to be received by a leader(s) from God. This leader then informs the members.

     2. The Special Knowledge can be received through visions, dreams, or new interpretations of sacred scriptures such as the Bible.

8. Indoctrination

     1. The teachings of the group are repeatedly drilled into the members, but the indoctrination usually occurs around Special Knowledge.

9. Salvation

     1. Salvation from the judgment of God is maintained through association and/or submission with the group, its authority, and/or its Special Knowledge.

10. Group Think

     1. The group's coherence is maintained by the observance to policies handed down from those in authority.

     2. There is an internal enforcement of policies by members who reward "proper" behavior, and those who perform properly are rewarded with further inclusion and acceptance by the group.

11. Cognitive Dissonance

     1. Avoidance of critical thinking and/or maintaining logically impossible beliefs and/or beliefs that are inconsistent with other beliefs held by the group.

     2. Avoidance of and/or denial of any facts that might contradict the group's belief system.

12. Shunning

     1. Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled.

13. Gender Roles

     1. Control of gender roles and definitions.

     2. Severe control of gender roles sometimes leads to sexual exploitation.

14. Appearance Standards

     1. Often a common appearance is required and maintained. For instance, women might wear prairie dresses, and/or their hair in buns, and/or no makeup, and/or the men might all wear white short-sleeved shirts, and/or without beards, or all wear beards.

 

Just a simple examination of the church I attend irregularly, I can list 1 through 11 as things that are taught in the church to varying degrees and the last three are taught more subtly, but they are taught. 

 

How is Christianity not like any of the aspects listed in this article?

 

So, upon seeing this, how does your church stack up or how does your belief stack up, all you Christians out there?

 

Does what you believe classify you as a cult?

 

I would say that if you can answer yes to more than 50% of these, I suspect you should have an issue with what you believe.

 

 

"So, I ran across this article, in of all places, the CARM website. I found it interesting in that it describes Christianity almost to a T."

 

 

 

You found it on CARM because it was showing ways to identify a cult. Cults are dangerous. I agree.

It's a good Christian apologetic site.

 

If you think this describes Christianity to a T, then we have very different views of the Christian faith.

 

I can answer NO to all of the questions.

 

 

Storm asked three questions, none of which involves or invites "Yes/No" answers.

 

Nevertheless, Ironhorse answered "'NO' to all of the questions." (his words)

 

The depth of Ironhorse's reading comprehension, analytical prowess and discourse is stunning.

[ironhorse]

 

 

 

 

If you think this describes Christianity to a T, then we have very different views of the Christian faith.

 

I can answer NO to all of the questions.

 

 

 

Thank you Ironhorse for testifying that:

 

 

1.1  You can't trust pastors, priests, Jesus or God

1.2  There are no prophets, Gods or Sons of Gods.

1.3  We don't have to submit ourselves to God or Christ.

 

2  Christianity is no better for salvation than any other religion.

 

3  Christians are not singled out for persecution

 

4  God doesn't care what people do or think.  It doesn't matter.

 

5  Christians are not called to be set apart from the world.

 

7  There is no prophesy, divine vision, divine inspiration, sacred text or message.

 

8  Minors should not be taught Christianity

 

9  Christianity does not save anybody.

 

10  People should openly question the teaching of pastors, priests and the Bible.

 

11  The Bible is wrong about many topics and should be called out when it is in error.

 

12  Christians should not shun anybody nor engaged in any kind of culture war.

 

13  It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman.  There is no special role for either and women are not the weaker sex.

 

14  Christian modesty customs should be ignored.

 

 

 

We hear your answer and applaud the ramifications!

 

 

 

 

Those are your answers to the questions, not mine.

 

 

 

Then you lied when you said your answer was no?  This is what no means.  You are trying to have your cake and eat it too . . . otherwise known as talking out of both sides of your mouth.  But go ahead and show us your answers that all paint Christianity as great while still all being "no".

 

Should I start the cricket noises now or wait until you log off for the day?

 

 

 

Is this what you think I meant by answering no to the first question?

 

1.You can't trust pastors, priests, Jesus or God

 

 

 

Here is the question:

 

1. Submission:

     1. Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.

     2. Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.

     3. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

 

 

1. I am free to question my pastor on anything he says.

 

2. I don't recognize any prophets, apostles, or special people unusually connected to God. I view the ones who make this claim as false teachers.

 

3. Not in the church I attend.

[mymistake]

 

Is this what you think I meant by answering no to the first question?

 

1.You can't trust pastors, priests, Jesus or God

 

 

 

Here is the question:

 

1. Submission:

     1. Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.

     2. Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.

     3. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

 

 

1. I am free to question my pastor on anything he says.

 

2. I don't recognize any prophets, apostles, or special people unusually connected to God. I view the ones who make this claim as false teachers.

 

3. Not in the church I attend.

 

 

 

So God is not a leader for you.  Christ is not a leader for you.

 

Or do you freely question anything God or Jesus Christ say?  Do you not recognize God or Christ?

 

Come on Ironhorse.  You have deluded yourself into thinking that you follow the creator of the whole universe.  

 

That is suppose to be the leader of your religion.

[ironhorse]

 

 

Is this what you think I meant by answering no to the first question?

 

1.You can't trust pastors, priests, Jesus or God

 

 

 

Here is the question:

 

1. Submission:

     1. Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.

     2. Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.

     3. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

 

 

1. I am free to question my pastor on anything he says.

 

2. I don't recognize any prophets, apostles, or special people unusually connected to God. I view the ones who make this claim as false teachers.

 

3. Not in the church I attend.

 

 

 

So God is not a leader for you.  Christ is not a leader for you.

 

Or do you freely question anything God or Jesus Christ say?  Do you not recognize God or Christ?

 

Come on Ironhorse.  You have deluded yourself into thinking that you follow the creator of the whole universe.  

 

That is suppose to be the leader of your religion.

 

 

 

Where did I say Christ is not my leader?

 

These questions are about cults. My answers are about NOT blindly accepting what a human leader says or teaches.

[mymistake]

 

Where did I say Christ is not my leader?

 

These questions are about cults. My answers are about NOT blindly accepting what a human leader says or teaches.

 

 

 

You are not going to get it.  You think your personal church is not a cult because it is mainstream Christianity.  What you don't understand is that Christianity is a cult.  Your personal church is a cult because it is mainstream Christianity.  

 

 

1  Submission

You submit to Christ your leader.

 

Cult

 

2  Exclusivity

Jesus is the only way

 

Cult

 

 

3  Persecution Complex

The Bible says people will hate you on account of Christ.

 

Cult

 

4  Control

The Bible has a long list of what you can or cannot do and think

 

Cult

 

 

5  Isolation

The Bible calls Christians to be set apart from the world.

 

Cult

 

 

6  Love Bombing

We have all seen how Christians love and fellowship with one another more than they care for "heretics" and "infidels".

 

Cult

 

 

7  Special Knowledge

The Bible is full of prophecy and divinely inspired messages, or so Christians claim.

 

Cult

 

 

8  Indoctrination

Teach a child in the way he should go and he will not depart from it.

 

Cult

 

 

9  Salvation

Hey the Gospel message.  Nuff said!

 

Cult

 

 

10  Group Think

Christianity was handed down from God and Jesus through the disciples and Bible writers.

 

Cult

 

 

11  Cognitive Dissonance

Questioning the authority of the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin.

 

Cult

 

 

12  Shunning

Paul instructed this.  Bring a witness the first time.  If they don't listen cast them out of your fellowship

 

Cult

 

 

13  Gender Roles

Do not permit a woman to teach.  She must remain silent.

 

Cult

 

 

14  Appearance Standards

The New Testament says women must keep their hair covered and so on.

 

Cult 

 

 

 

 

Christianity is a cult.

[duderonomy]

Ironhorse, you said,

 

"2. I don't recognize any prophets, apostles, or special people unusually connected to God. I view the ones who make this claim as false teachers."

 

Interesting. Unusually connected to God? How? How is one usually connected to God apart from your Christian faith, or is that impossible outside of your group?

[Ravenstar]

*snort*

[Penguin]

Evidence has been submitted to confirm Christianity as a cult. The next question (in my mind) would be whether a cult is inherently a negative entity. Christians will not admit they are in a cult, generally.

 

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/cult.shtml

 

This sheds some light on the subject.

[bornagainathiest]

 

So, I ran across this article, in of all places, the CARM website. I found it interesting in that it describes Christianity almost to a T.

 

 

 

You found it on CARM because it was showing ways to identify a cult. Cults are dangerous. I agree.

 

I see.

Ironhorse's understanding is working well enough for him today to see that cults are dangerous - but not well enough for him to see that Christianity is such a cult.

 

It's a good Christian apologetic site.

 

His understanding is working well enough for him to see that CARM is a good site.

 

If you think this describes Christianity to a T, then we have very different views of the Christian faith.

 

His understanding is working well enough for him to see that he and Storm have very different views of the Christian faith cult.

 

I can answer NO to all of the questions.

 

But his understanding seems to stop working from time to time.  (I.e, when he wants it to.)

 

 

Ironhorse's understanding stopped working here... http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66352-the-omnipotence-of-god/page-2#.VNxdvfmsUuk ... and it seems to have stopped working on these items too.

 

THE OMNIPOTENCE OF GOD

I patiently wait for Ironhorse to respond to my Jan 26 post, where I demonstrated a direct contradiction between the books of Job and 1 Timothy and therefore also demonstrated that the Bible is unreliable and untrustworthy. 

 

THE FAITH PROBLEM

The RedNeck Prof patiently waits for Ironhorse to respond to the eight Bible passages about breaking promises and lying.

 

We all patiently wait for Ironhorse to specify exactly what body of empirical (i.e., non-scriptural) evidence he uses to support his faith - so that we may examine and question it.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66413-and-so-we-wait/page-11#.VNxcF_msUuk (post # 213)

.

.

.

Whenever your understanding starts working properly again Ironhorse - please clear your 'In' tray!

[gall]

 

So, I ran across this article, in of all places, the CARM website. I found it interesting in that it describes Christianity almost to a T.

 

For those that want the quickie version, I present:

 

 

 

1. Submission:

     1. Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.

     2. Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.

     3. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

2. Exclusivity

     1. Their group is the only true religious system, or one of the few true remnants of God's people.

3. Persecution complex

     1. Us against them mentality. Therefore, when someone (inside or outside of the group) corrects the group in doctrine and/or behavior, it is interpreted as persecution, which then is interpreted as validation. 

4. Control

     1. Control of members' actions and thinking through repeated indoctrination and/or threats of loss of salvation, or a place to live, or receiving curses from God, etc.

5. Isolation

     1. Minimizing contact of church members with those outside the group. This facilitates a further control over the thinking and practices of the members by the leadership.

6. Love Bombing

     1. Showing great attention and love to a person in the group by others in the group, to help transfer emotional dependence to the group.

7. Special Knowledge

     1. Instructions and/or knowledge are sometimes said to be received by a leader(s) from God. This leader then informs the members.

     2. The Special Knowledge can be received through visions, dreams, or new interpretations of sacred scriptures such as the Bible.

8. Indoctrination

     1. The teachings of the group are repeatedly drilled into the members, but the indoctrination usually occurs around Special Knowledge.

9. Salvation

     1. Salvation from the judgment of God is maintained through association and/or submission with the group, its authority, and/or its Special Knowledge.

10. Group Think

     1. The group's coherence is maintained by the observance to policies handed down from those in authority.

     2. There is an internal enforcement of policies by members who reward "proper" behavior, and those who perform properly are rewarded with further inclusion and acceptance by the group.

11. Cognitive Dissonance

     1. Avoidance of critical thinking and/or maintaining logically impossible beliefs and/or beliefs that are inconsistent with other beliefs held by the group.

     2. Avoidance of and/or denial of any facts that might contradict the group's belief system.

12. Shunning

     1. Those who do not keep in step with group policies are shunned and/or expelled.

13. Gender Roles

     1. Control of gender roles and definitions.

     2. Severe control of gender roles sometimes leads to sexual exploitation.

14. Appearance Standards

     1. Often a common appearance is required and maintained. For instance, women might wear prairie dresses, and/or their hair in buns, and/or no makeup, and/or the men might all wear white short-sleeved shirts, and/or without beards, or all wear beards.

 

Just a simple examination of the church I attend irregularly, I can list 1 through 11 as things that are taught in the church to varying degrees and the last three are taught more subtly, but they are taught. 

 

How is Christianity not like any of the aspects listed in this article?

 

So, upon seeing this, how does your church stack up or how does your belief stack up, all you Christians out there?

 

Does what you believe classify you as a cult?

 

I would say that if you can answer yes to more than 50% of these, I suspect you should have an issue with what you believe.

 

 

"So, I ran across this article, in of all places, the CARM website. I found it interesting in that it describes Christianity almost to a T."

 

 

 

You found it on CARM because it was showing ways to identify a cult. Cults are dangerous. I agree.

It's a good Christian apologetic site.

 

If you think this describes Christianity to a T, then we have very different views of the Christian faith.

 

I can answer NO to all of the questions.

 

 

I think that is the exact point thanks for making it so clear.

 

We do not have your view of christianity, so don't expect the same views on faith or acceptance of the ridiculous. I can tell you with certainty the only people who think a apologetics webiste is a good one are people that think like you. I am gathering most non believers would not agree with you about that site.

[gall]

 

 

 

Is this what you think I meant by answering no to the first question?

 

1.You can't trust pastors, priests, Jesus or God

 

 

 

Here is the question:

 

1. Submission:

     1. Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.

     2. Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.

     3. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

 

 

1. I am free to question my pastor on anything he says.

 

2. I don't recognize any prophets, apostles, or special people unusually connected to God. I view the ones who make this claim as false teachers.

 

3. Not in the church I attend.

 

 

 

So God is not a leader for you.  Christ is not a leader for you.

 

Or do you freely question anything God or Jesus Christ say?  Do you not recognize God or Christ?

 

Come on Ironhorse.  You have deluded yourself into thinking that you follow the creator of the whole universe.  

 

That is suppose to be the leader of your religion.

 

 

 

Where did I say Christ is not my leader?

 

These questions are about cults. My answers are about NOT blindly accepting what a human leader says or teaches.

 

 

you sort of have to be willfully blind to accept anything you cannot see, hear, taste, touch, or smell. Most people call that fantasy.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

 

Is this what you think I meant by answering no to the first question?

 

1.You can't trust pastors, priests, Jesus or God

 

 

 

Here is the question:

 

1. Submission:

     1. Complete, almost unquestioned trust in the leadership.

     2. Leaders are often seen as prophets, apostles, or special individuals with unusual connections to God. This helps a person give themselves over psychologically to trusting someone else for their spiritual welfare.

     3. Increased submission to the leadership is rewarded with additional responsibilities and/or roles, and/or praises, increasing the importance of the person within the group.

 

 

1. I am free to question my pastor on anything he says.

 

2. I don't recognize any prophets, apostles, or special people unusually connected to God. I view the ones who make this claim as false teachers.

 

3. Not in the church I attend.

 

 

 

So God is not a leader for you.  Christ is not a leader for you.

 

Or do you freely question anything God or Jesus Christ say?  Do you not recognize God or Christ?

 

Come on Ironhorse.  You have deluded yourself into thinking that you follow the creator of the whole universe.  

 

That is suppose to be the leader of your religion.

 

 

 

Where did I say Christ is not my leader?

 

These questions are about cults. My answers are about NOT blindly accepting what a human leader says or teaches.

 

 

you sort of have to be willfully blind to accept anything you cannot see, hear, taste, touch, or smell. Most people call that fantasy.

 

 

Not exactly, Gall.

 

Ironhorse is on record as saying that there are things he can see that persuade him of god's existence.

 

I've asked him repeatedly to say exactly what these things are... but he consistently refuses to do so.

 

Maybe he'll do so if you ask him?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[mymistake]

 

Where did I say Christ is not my leader?

 

These questions are about cults. My answers are about NOT blindly accepting what a human leader says or teaches.

 

 

 

By the way it is terribly ironic that you think Christ is your leader but the humans who preach to you and wrote the Bible are not your leaders. When you

 

blindly accept the Bible you think you don't blindly accept the teachings of human leaders.  Never in your life have you ever seen Christ, heard Christ or

 

seen any communication from Christ.  Human leaders are the only real leaders.

[bornagainathiest]

 

(snip)

 

 

"So, I ran across this article, in of all places, the CARM website. I found it interesting in that it describes Christianity almost to a T."

 

 

 

You found it on CARM because it was showing ways to identify a cult. Cults are dangerous. I agree.

It's a good Christian apologetic site.

 

If you think this describes Christianity to a T, then we have very different views of the Christian faith.

 

I can answer NO to all of the questions.

 

 

If you answered NO to # 11, then you are lying, Ironhorse.

 

Here is the evidence against you.

 

11. Cognitive Dissonance

     1. Avoidance of critical thinking and/or maintaining logically impossible beliefs and/or beliefs that are inconsistent with other beliefs held by the group.

     2. Avoidance of and/or denial of any facts that might contradict the group's belief system.

 

You have consistently avoided thinking critically about the Bible when confronted (by us) with contradictions in scripture and facts that call into question the Bible's historical accuracy and trustworthiness.  Your standard responses to these threats are "I disagree" or "I don't understand (insert whatever)".  You disagree and claim that you don't understand to neutralize these threats and avoid thinking about them too deeply... or at all.  These are not honest responses from you - they are avoidance tactics.  

 

The honest person faces up to the facts, whatever the outcome may be.  You don't seem to have that in you, Ironhorse.

.

.

.

Re: maintaining logically impossible beliefs...

 

You believe that the Bible contains no contradictions.

Yet in Job 1 & 2 we see Satan in god's immediate presence, while 1 Timothy 6 : 16 tells us that god cannot be approached and 1 John 3 : 7 & 8 says that Satan sinned from the beginning - meaning that he never could have approached god and been in his immediate presence!

 

Logically impossible... yet you believe it, Ironhorse.

.

.

.

Therefore, by answering No to # 11, you are lying!

[Geezer]

The Church of Christ is an example of a Christian cult. I didn't see anything on the original posted list that didn't apply to them.

[Penguin]

The Church of Christ is an example of a Christian cult. I didn't see anything on the original posted list that didn't apply to them.

 

Southern Baptists, too. That's them to a T.