On My Way Out

[Eurasia]

My first post ever on a forum, so here goes. (Sorry that it ended up being so long)

 

I'm from a mixed nationality (European/Asian) Christian home. When I turned 18 I moved from the Middle East where I had grown up and back to Europe for university. I started studying Medicine and now I'm in my 4th year at 24 years old.

 

I grew up in a Protestant Christian household though I was never sure exactly about which denomination we belonged to. We went through several different churches from Evangelical to Baptist and others. I attended Sunday school as a kid and we were always active in the church, getting involved in weekend activities and later on bible studies and a more teenager orientated “Sunday school”. My parents (especially my mom) were quite devout but never too overbearing in comparison to some of the other stories I’ve read on this site. I was allowed to read the Harry Potter books and watch movies. Although sex, violence and swearing were very taboo and I ended up teaching myself about sex because my parents never, ever broached the subject (I was very happy for the internet then!).

 

In regards to my deconversion, there were a few moments when I seriously started to question what I was being told but aside from that there has always been a nagging feeling in my gut as long as I can remember. I’ve always been a curious person (probably the reason I chose to go into the sciences) and I remember asking questions about God, life, death and disease when I was a kid and not getting satisfying answers, but more being told to have faith.

 

So I did, I prayed and I went through the motions because that’s what I was supposed to do. There were a few turning points. Learning about Christian history and how bloody it has been, learning of similarities with Pagan stories and rituals that pre-date the bible. Learning how selective the church and Christians are in what they read and acknowledge from the bible. Even though I had these doubts I still attended church and prayed and part of me wanted to have faith and I felt guilty for not being able to open myself up and surrender myself to Christ.

 

I’m an only child and I have a typical ‘Tiger’ mom and in my household a difference of opinion was not welcome. I remember having a lot of pent up anger about this. Whenever I tried to voice an opinion that was different or I got angry about something, I would get days of anger back from my mom and I was back to square one. My dad was reasonable having grown up in Europe but he didn’t have much say about things next to my mom, in fact he was constantly overruled. We are fairly similar in the way that we both appreciate logical arguments but in the end I felt that he had just given over to my mom’s way of thinking. And while he tried to show himself as a devoted Christian I still remember him falling asleep during most of the church sermon’s (Granted he had a busy job). This all being said, they are extremely loving parents who did everything they could to make sure I had a good life and upbringing and I do love them very much.

 

Towards my late teenage years I just remember counting the minutes down at church or during a bible study and when asked to read a passage out loud it was like hearing my mouth say the words while I was elsewhere. The last church we attended really put me off church going completely. It was one of those churches with overly loud music and singing at the beginning and then the preacher would come on and his message wouldn’t grow more and more convincing but louder and louder and louder, resulting in people running around ‘talking (yelling) in tongues’, writhing around the place and people going to the front for healing and falling over. My mom wasn’t even convinced of the last part. To me it was just a circus show trying to pass itself off as a holy act.

 

I’ve always had an open mind, it probably helped growing up in a multicultural environment and exposed to a multitude of different faiths and cultures. When I left to university I started getting to know people who had never had the ties of religion on them and I admired how free they were. Free of judgment, free of worry about the things that weren’t under their control.

 

My relationship with my parents has also became more distant. I was having trouble in school that I didn’t dare talk to them about and I had split from the church but they don’t know that. My parents still live abroad (about a 7 hour flight away) and over the last few years the relationship hasn't evolved from what it was when I was a teenager and every time I try to address or change that, I'm met with resistance or its simply not acknowledged. Part of it is that we see each other once or twice a year for a few weeks and try to have as nice a time together as possible. 

 

Now I'm 24 and I decided to move in with my girlfriend (also 24) of 2.5 years. We had practically been living together for a year already but decided to get our own place. My parents have been very against this and are trying to get us to move back out again. Their reasons have ranged from it having a bad effect on my studies to, my mother being afraid I'm going to get my girlfriend pregnant, to the main reason of its not Christian and therefore improper.

 

Perhaps I am being naïve about this but looking at my life now compared to a few years ago, I’ve stopped going out to bars (as often) my friends group isn’t transient but more fixed now and I am finally happy in my living situation (former house mates have been either messy or just a disturbing influence) . My grades are up and my attendance is better. Even though I try and tell her that my girlfriend has a stabilizing effect on me (she works full time as a medical intern) and that its socially normal here, all of this seems to fall on deaf ears. As for the pregnancy part she has literally told me she will disown me and any kids I have if its out of wedlock (and before the age of 30). I'd like to tell her that living together isn't going to affect whether or not we have sex but I'm not sure how to have that awkward conversation. 

 

She has said repeatedly that I am choosing the path of weakness and the fact that I can't live by myself shows that I'm weak and that she is no longer proud of me. She asks how other students here manage to not live together with their significant others and when I try to tell her that they actually have other support systems in place (parents, siblings, life-long friends) she goes back to saying that I'm weak for not being able to go it alone. Having heard of a number of suicides in the medical student community here, I have no intention of letting myself go down a dark path (Again).

 

I want to tell them about my deconversion but I feel like that might be the final nail in the coffin of my relationship with my parents. I want nothing more than to have an honest, adult relationship with them but I don’t know if they are ready for the and if the relationship can survive the change.

 

Anyway thank you for reading, it’s a great weight off my shoulders just putting this down on ‘paper’. Any comments and advice are most welcome!

[StJeffTheIncomprehensible]

Hi Eurasia,

 

Thanks for sharing part of your life with us. I think there are some people here that can help you work through some of this--at the least, you can always come and blow off some steam when things get too stressful.

 

I don't have much by way of advice. I'm 44 yrs. old, haven't been to church in over 2 yrs., and still haven't told my parents I no longer believe. It would devestate them, and I simply don't feel the need to tackle that head on at this time. Gradually the truth will come out, and pehaps without a sudden shock of information they might handle it better. I'm just sharing my approach here, and letting you know that others of us are going through similar questions of when and where and how to share where we find ourselves in relation to religion with those closest to us.

 

Good luck on your journey.

[Orbit]

Welcome to ExC!

[Margee]

 

 

I want to tell them about my deconversion but I feel like that might be the final nail in the coffin of my relationship with my parents. I want nothing more than to have an honest, adult relationship with them but I don’t know if they are ready for the and if the relationship can survive the change.

 

 

Welcome to Ex-c Eurasia...and thank you so much for sharing your story with us. Relieving to others who we really are (non-believers) will take you to 2 places. One will be rejection and the other will be acceptance. These are the only two ways this can go. When one does not accept who you truly are, you will possible be rejected and that includes our closest relatives. I always ask myself this question. ''Am I ready if this particular person rejects me and throws me out of their life?'' If I have a whole lot in common with someone and feel the relationship is worth keeping, I may not tell the complete truth and I live with the fact that I can't be fully who I am. Others on the board will tell you that it's not worth not being able to be your true self, but I personally have learned how to work around this dilemma. 

 

Only you my friend can make these decisions. Keep reading what all the others have gone through and then take your time making up your mind as to what to do. We understand because it is a dilemma that most of us go through. None of my relatives on Facebook know that I am a non believer. I just can't bother getting into all the foolishness of trying to convince believers.

 

Keep posting all your concerns and the gang will help you to go in the right direction. i just wanted to add my 2 cents today. Best of luck.

 

hug

[Llwellyn]

You say you have a good relationship with your parents;  they love you; etc.  But the facts you've described tell a different story.  Your parents fed you, provided an education, and a home while you are a child -- and for that, you can give them the utmost thanks.  But they are unable or unwilling to adapt to a relationship with you as an adult, a peer, an equeal, who has just as much right to choose and to have confidence as they do.

 

 If I were you, I would resign myself to the reality that you cannot trust them anymore, and their opinions are not relevant to your life anymore.  Their approval or disapproval is inconsequential. It is really a foul thing to do for your mother to threaten to "disown" you for making life adaptations different than hers.  By even saying this, she has ALREADY disowned you, the "you" that is flexible, adapting, and constantly forming.  The you that is an adult with independent judgment and an independent environment and opinion.

 

I would have a heart to heart with them the next time you are together and say that you honor them for who they are and what they have been to you, but your relationship with them is now on a completely different footing, and you do not care what their opinions are for your life, because they have shown themselves to be untrustworthy, unadaptable, and irrelevant to the world of today, and to the social context of your life.

[Jeff]

Hi welcome

[Ellinas]

Welcome.

 

Seems to me you are in an advantageous position, being at some distance from and independent of your parents.  That means you can live your life according to your beliefs, needs and standards.  There are many who would envy you that position

 

Whether and, if so, when, you light the blue touchpaper in conversation with your parents is a matter for you.  The other advantage of distance is that, probably, it is not a pressing issue.  It may, however, be something more easily sorted when you are in different countries.  The bottom line here is that they seem determined to pressurize you and live your life for you - that is something you are going to have to face at some stage, so you may find it best to get all the issues over with at once.  However, these are just thoughts and only you can judge what is appropriate.  Whatever you decide, I wish you well.

[wyson]

I’m an only child and I have a typical ‘Tiger’ mom and in my household a difference of opinion was not welcome. I remember having a lot of pent up anger about this. Whenever I tried to voice an opinion that was different or I got angry about something, I would get days of anger back from my mom and I was back to square one. 

 

I'm not sure exactly what to call this, but this sort of suppression, if done in a bullying way by someone in authority would be described as emotional abuse.

 

I also lived with this sort of mother, and because of it, I grew up thinking the world of her.  As a child, I always felt I was wrong and she was right. She would keep pointing out, in not so many words that she was better than me.

 

 

Perhaps this could be seen to be reasonable in an adult / child relationship.  However, even though I am now middle aged, this hasn't changed.   If its something I did or said, and she sees differently, she is right and I am wrong.   She looks for opportunities to communicate her dominance over me.   It goes as far for her to imply that she knows more about the majors I studied at university, or my field of work.  It is absolutely impossible to have any kind of discussion with her.  Sometimes I quote sources and point her towards articles / videos / websites, by people prominent in their fields.  She refuses to read or watch anything, because, why should she waste her time when she is right?!!

 

She is driven by this sort of unreason in every aspect of her life.... would it surprise you if I told you that she is also a Christian fundamentalist?

 

You are right if you are thinking this has driven a huge wedge in our relationship.  Because it has.  And she isn't willing to change.  And lord knows I have tried.  Of course, I have also tried communicating to her in an adult way about where I am at and where I would like to go.  This was a total waste of time.  It was met yet again with talk about how wrong I was and how right she always is.

 

I have found the best approach is to let her be herself.  And then if she tries comment or interfer in my life, to fob her off with a yes, of course you are right, I'll do that and then carry on in the way I see fit.   And to treat her as I would treat any other adult.  After a while I realised that I didn't deserve to be put down or belittled for my life choices (like whether to be religious or not, or what career to pursue, choice of partner etc) and I started to fight back.  Which resulted in raging arguments.  Which resulted in distance.  Which I realised, for me and her, was a natural development of our differing values.  All relationships develop.  Sometimes in ways which you don't like.

 

You always have to ask yourself... is this person someone I really want in my life right now?  I mean if this lady wasn't my mother, just a random old lady what could I reasonably expect relationship wise from her?  Would I even want to know her?

 

Sadly with my mother, the answer to this question remains a big fat no.  As a child, she saw me as an extension of her ego, and therefore as someone to be nurtured.  Even as an adult, I remain in the same frame, and she is therefore incapable of seeing me as individual making their own way in life.    Although this sort of relationship is never healthy, as she is my mother,  we still carry on, albeit in a relationship based on duty rather than joy.   For us, I have come to realise that this is as it should be.

[duderonomy]

Eurasia, hello and welcome!  I don't post very often in this part of the forum, but a couple of things occurred to me as I read your post.

 

1) If whatever you are studying at university doesn't work out for you, you could make it as a writer. 

 

2) Who is paying the bills? You? Them? Not to be cold, but it often comes down to that. Your roof, your rules, right?

 

3) Don't disown your mom even if she disowns you. People change, and you only get one mom. She's right in a way to strongly suggest that pregnancy isn't the best thing right now. She may not say it well, and her reasoning may be clouded with emotion, but maybe she wants the best for you. Is that a bad thing? Later she can chide you for not giving her grandchildren, but she might have a good point about it right now. Be careful out there.

 

4) Sharing your de-conversion with your parents. I used to bristle when people would say that you have to choose your battles, but really it makes sense. If you and your parents aren't getting along right now because of other things, why throw fuel on the fire by bringing this up now? You don't have to lie (and I wouldn't) if the question is ever brought up by them, but why bring it up yourself? What will it prove? 

 

5) Your mom isn't/won't be proud of you.  Baloney.  She's your mom.  She's already proud of you, but don't fall for the guilt trip. Live your life. You only have one shot at this, there is no rewind button.

 

Anyway, that's my two cents worth. I hope you stick around here!

[DayLight]

I have an aunt who is a devout Christian.  She loves me dearly, but I can't talk to her "heart to heart" anymore since we have different views on life.

 

I have a choice: tell her and have her cry on my behalf and fast and pray and try to convert me back every time we meet? 

 

OR not tell her, pretend that I am still "with her" and just have an emotionally distant relationship.  Personally, it seems like the second choice is the "lesser of the evils".

 

She is a very nice person, but she strongly believes and her brain won't be able to understand any other point of view.  She will think that a horrible thing has happened (in reference to my deconversion).  So there is no benefit to telling her. 

 

So based on my experience, I would not tell your parents if I were you. (I also didn't tell my mom, but we have a more distant relationship with her in the first place.)