Thackerie Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 The comment about the ex-wife's cousin shows that a person can shift from being a fundie into something else, while retaining the same bigoted views on social issues as fundies have and encourage. It's not enough to just stop being a fundie, people need to become rational humanists. Feminist drivel... I have to say this, this is name calling. She raised a valid point. He does a lot of name-calling and insulting in these forums. Still waiting for the christian "love" to kick into gear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'm still waiting... Waiting for an apology from End is the same as christians waiting for the return of Jesus. They hope and they hope and they hope. And it just never happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 I'm still waiting...Waiting for an apology from End is the same as christians waiting for the return of Jesus. They hope and they hope and they hope. And it just never happens... Not quite the same. Christians don't mock Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 *crickets* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Thinking most folks NK wish to live a life of non-harm, fairness, etc. Regardless of our methods for becoming better people, I don't know of any that ultimately overcome our ability to harm.....hence we are all doing what we can. The science reference was to the field of epigenetics.....what little I know about it, it appears nature and nurture may temporarily alter us genetically. Whether that dictates further behavior, I am not aware. Ever since End started mentioning this buzzword, epigenetics, I've been curious to find out what it means. I recently came across this article, which outlines some of the pitfalls of using this term without sufficient knowledge of this field of biology. Epigenetics. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/epigenetics-it-doesnt-mean-what-quacks-think-it-means/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penguin Posted March 6, 2015 Author Share Posted March 6, 2015 Christians, Where is there room for personal responsibility within Christianity? 1. You are told you sin because it is in your nature, and even after attaining salvation, you will sin. Why are you expected to take responsibility for something you cannot control? 2. Mercy and grace are provided in the event of sin, so where is your responsibility to avoid sin? 3. If you rely on God for everything, where is your sense that you control yourself? Is it not true that most Christians will pray "Lord, help me out here" instead of "Lord, I got myself into this mess, so I'll get myself out?" 4. Why is it Christians will repent often only after their sin is exposed? How can such repentance be legitimate? A child who is caught with his hand in the cookie jar will say "sorry" because that is what he is taught to do, not what he actually feels. Oh hell, let's look at number one. First, you need to define sin in an absolute. Perhaps we all might be better people if you could provide the absolute list before condemnation. Second, per the definition of salvation, I'm thinking deliverance from sin is that "twinkling" when we will be changed. AS I said, I don't know that any of us are "finished".....perhaps we disagree on that point. So yes, the reason we have FAITH in Christ is because he says, "forgive them Father, they don't know", they don't absolutely know You. Not sure I get your question about "why we are expected". I think most folks want to do the moral thing and are looking TO take responsibility for their actions. Let me get two while I'm here. Hell is a good deterrent.....fear of God. Heck, I'm on a roll, 3) The subscription is to Christianity. The point would be TO rely on the subscription for learning/advice. In my life, I don't know that I have found a better standard by which to live. 4) and the Professor's #5 are just stages of our own maturity....pride, etc. 1. "Define sin in an absolute." I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean, but let me see if I can clarify the issue. Sin is the disobedience of God, demonstrated pretty plainly by Adam (Genesis 3, Romans 5-6). There's not so much a list (though some are given in the Bible) as there is the standard that sin occurs when you reject God and/or disobey him (which is essentially the same thing). Romans 5:9 states you are justified (not that you will be), so you are saved at the moment of your belief, and you are granted justification at that point, meaning you have salvation. Also see Romans 10:9, which states that if you declare with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" and believe in your heart God raised Christ from the grave, you will be saved. The wording used (in the Greek) indicates it will happen at the moment the actions are completed. As for your statement referencing Christ's petition to forgive the people, that doesn't make sense. Perhaps you can clarify what you mean. As for the expectation of personal responsibility, let me clarify if I can. God tells you that you must accept him or face eternity in some kind of punishment (see this list, with proof of Hell's eternity in Mark 9:43, "where the fire never goes out," Also 2 Peter 2:4, where it mentions that fallen angels are in Hell, awaiting judgment; this reinforces the eternity of Hell). So your options are serve God or face an eternity of punishment. Humans will always sin while alive on this planet, as evidenced by the billions of people alive today. The articles mentioned on this forum about pastors being arrested is specific evidence that proclaimed Christians still sin. There's also Moses, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Samson, Ananias, Sapphira, and many others mentioned in the Bible who were punished (and some killed) as a direct result of their sin. "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). This means that no one who was born, is alive, or will be born can escape sinning. We are born in sin, according to Romans 5-6, so we're screwed from the start. With all of that, why are you expected by God to take responsibility for your sins when in fact you are destined to sin and can't actually help it? It's like kicking a baby because it cries. 2. Your answer to my second question didn't really answer it, but perhaps my question was poorly phrased. If you are a Christian, you've got your "get out of Hell" card. Mercy and grace are afforded to you as a Christian, so once you've got your card, what is your incentive to avoid sin? You won't go to Hell once you accept Christ (according to John 10), so what incentive is there not to sin? 3. If I understand your answer correctly, you mean to say that the point of being a Christian is to rely wholly on God to learn, but that doesn't answer my question. Again, I may have phrased it poorly. If you rely wholly on God for everything, then--when you fall into trouble--at what point do you take responsibility for your actions? Sure, you may ask God to forgive you for any sin, but that's not really taking responsibility. Responsibility would be saying, "God, I really screwed up here, so I'm going to face my consequences. I don't need you to keep me from harm." Most people I know will say, "God, I know I screwed up, but please, get me outta this one." I will accept your answer for #4. That's reasonable and pretty straightforward. Of course, I don't speak for others, and I won't speak for The Professor as to #5. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 lol this topic would take be a week to read to catch up.. sorry i didnt get the chance to get in from the beginning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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