That Distinct Specific Hole That Is Left

[Sitka]

I grew up with no religion.

I became a christian at age 17 at a youth convention (assembly of god).   I went because according my friend who invited me said it was going to be a "super fun trip with the youth group, with lots of bands, and music, and speakers, and cute boys."    In hindsight I feel like I was sucked into a cult.

 

It very much altered the course of my life for the next 10 years, until a gradual unraveling and breaking away from religion began within me.  

 

For about the last 2 years I've finally been able to admit to myself that I'm not a christian, (but not even to everyone in my life)  and during that time I've felt almost tormented with these nagging internal questions of what the point of this life is.  I feel like I don't know what to base my life on if I don't understand the bigger picture.  This is not something I ever thought about before I was christian.  ...but after experiencing that [false] sense of having it all figured out and knowing what the end game here is, I have this distinct hole now.  I really didn't want to be admit to myself what I truly believed because that meant losing this sense of security and feeling like I knew what was going on in this world, how to see the world, and what to base big life decisions on.
​ I literally had a panic attack while venting to my husband about these thoughts the other day.  (just to convey how much it's truly distressing me, on a constant backburner of my mind)

So, what now?  
Answers like "there is no meaning" and "life is whatever you want to make it" and "the purpose of life is different things to different people" and "there is no one truth" completely infuriate me.  I just feel like there can't be more than one truth.  There's one truth, and then everyone else is just lying to themselves and are wrong and they don't even know it.
  
Maybe those responses are true, maybe not.  The point is, I need help with how unsettled I am.  I would just really really appreciate any thoughts.  Feel free to point me to books or videos that might be helpful.  
Is there a way to get through this without lying to myself, or having faith that something is true, or without sinking into a depressive pit?  

 

Thank you!  

[mymistake]

Welcome to ex-C and welcome to the rest of your life.  What matters now is what you decide matters.

 

You seem to be struggling.  Can you be more specific about it?  I personally found watching videos from the NonStampCollector, DarkMatter2525 series, Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris to be very helpful.  In my case I had an emotional attachment to my faith and I had to deal with the fear.  Comedy was the only thing to break that because in my experience emotions rarely respond to logic.  As I became an atheist the depression that had griped me my whole life slowly lifted.

 

But I'm not sure those solutions would work for everybody.  We are all different.  You sound like you have existential questions.  If we are not serving God then who shall we serve?  Well you need to make your own meaning.  When we were Christians we were told that a life without God is meaningless but that isn't what I have found.  If this is the only life we have then that makes the time we have here so much more meaningful. We are not living for some other life that will happen later.  Live for yourself.  It's a good thing.  We are here for you any time you need to rant or just in case you have questions.  You are not alone and others have been through very similar situations.

[DragonTheDruid]

Hey there! Welcome to Ex-C, Sitka!  (First off, I see you're from Oregon, so, Hello fellow Pacific Northwesterner!)

 

I'm sorry you're feeling unsettled and insecure about things right now. It definitely is jarring to really face the feeling and thought of: ''I'm on my own. There's no all-powerful being silently supporting me through all I do, only me.'' It seems once one leaves Christianity, a change of mindset is called for. Really, there's many different ways to approach it, and I'm going to try to say this without using any of the phrases that infuriate you haha. I don't know of any books or videos that could help either since I'm pretty new into the ex-C scene myself.

 

I will say that last year, once I really admitted to myself that Christianity was false(which was preceded by a couple years of being utterly depressed and confused and doubtful), I hadn't felt more free and happy, because I didn't have to worry about denying any part of myself, and I didn't have to worry about some god judging me for doing things that brought me happiness or satisfaction. I didn't need to worry about what would happen after death, since death is inevitable and no one can know anyway.

 

I don't have to worry about doing certain things that may have previously made me wonder if that's what I am supposed to do or not (whether they were a part of 'god's plan or will or anything'), and really, there's just a lot less pressure, and I know that my actions are my own and not predestined by some being. I can 'make my own destiny' I guess, and mistakes are me just learning and figuring things out. Like Mymistake said, making your own meaning and living life for yourself is a good thing, and living with the mindset that this is the one shot you get makes you really question what's important and helps you set out your priorities. 

 

I wish you luck and peace through trying to figure it all out and come to terms with your new life! 

[wyson]

Hey Sitka, if you are feeling really distressed, have you considered seeing a therapist?  Marlene Winell's book "Leaving the Fold" really helped me process my deconversion.  The author is a "recovering from religion specialist" and would totally understand where you are coming from.  Check her website where you can find out how to get in touch with her and her fees: http://marlenewinell.net/index.html  She also has some good articles on the Ex-Christian website.

 

I would concur with you that there is one truth.  And that is reality!  There are lots of different ways to start understanding it and lots of different angles.  As you may expect in the real world, there are no pat answers and there is a lot of discussion and development.

 

When I left Christianity, I started reading voraciously... I found I was most satisfied by looking into 3 areas:

 

1) Politics and Economics

 

Absolutely no one can deny their political and economic situation and the institutions that have been created to govern our lives.  Its common for fundamentalist / conservative believers to deny the importance of these institutions because they think the supernatural has a bigger effect on their lives.  In which case I always point to North and South Korea.  Same people, language and culture divided in the near past by different political ideologies.  What is possible one and not possible in the other?

 

There are lots of resources on the net.  A good one is below:  You will see people talk about real problems and real solutions.

 

http://www.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/videoAndAudio/channels/publicLecturesAndEvents/Home.aspx

 

2) Science

Magazines like New Scientist and Scientific American provide great accessible insight and analysis into modern scientific ideas, discoveries and techniques.

 

3) Christianity

Scripture can be read in many ways.  The lecture series below looks at the scriptures through the lens of history.  What were the new testament writers going through at the time when they wrote the Bible?  Its a very different way of reading them.

 

 

In the secular way of looking at things, there is no such thing as "knowing" ie. you believe in a set of principles, and a narrative, these constitute your whole world view.

 

To be frank, once I resigned myself to accepting the limits of my knowledge, I felt really free.  Damn it, I will do what everyone else does, make decisions based on my current knowledge and live and learn.  Even Christians do this, even if their faith places them under the illusion that they "know" or that there is a concious supernatural hand guiding them.  The Christians I have met have their fair share of mishaps.  But instead of saying well, its life, or circumstance, or my lack of experience led me to make mistakes, they say, well, it was Gods will, or God moves in mysterious ways.  ie. They provide a pat answer that doesn't actually answer anything, but gives them the illusion that things are under conscious control.

 

So the answer to your dilemma is really simple.  Right now, knowing what I do what's the best decision I can make?  Then execute and move forwards.  Then learn from the results.   With or without "faith", this is what everyone does.  Feeling a certain degree of anxiety regarding its correctness etc is normal and healthy.  It helps you see mistakes, perceive knowledge and skills holes etc.

 

I will say, having gone through this process, over 10 / 12 years I have gone through a total paradigm shift in world view that required a career change.  Sometimes I tried to resist and cling to the past, but this always had bad results.   I can now see change is a normal part of my personal development and try to embrace it as much as possible.  I honestly don't expect to see the world in the same way in another 10 / 12 years time.  But frankly, that is far in the future.  I can only worry about tomorrow, the next week, a few months hence.  

 

When you wake up tomorrow ask yourself, what would I like to do today?  And then just do (of course you can't ignore your  day to day circumstance!).  Ultimately it isn't that complicated.  Christianity makes it so!

[wyson]

I was just wondering.  Were you generally anxious before becoming a Christian?   In which case, you may have to treat the underlying anxiety also.

 

One of my friends, after leaving education became super anxious.  She had no idea what she wanted to do with her life, what career to chase, if she even wanted one.  In the mean time she had money worries, was living away from home for the first time and in an unsatisfactory relationship, making her ripe to become a Christian at 23 years of age.   Its was her attempt at self treatment, to gain some semblance of order and direction but of course the underlying issues were/are still there.  Now she is anxious AND deluded.  I've been trying to get her to see a therapist recently as her thoughts become ever more detached from reality (God will of course intervene supernaturally to change to world for her) she has started talking about suicide.

 

Anyway, if you feel that your Christianity was a cover for something else, therapy will definitely help.

[Llwellyn]

Your post reminded me of this Stephen Fry YouTube video --  "How can I be happy?"

 

[rach]

I agree that there can only be one truth and answers like "everyone has to find their own truth" are absurd and pointless.  I have right about driven myself to insanity trying to figure out life.  I was raised in fundamentalist Christianity which claimed to have every answer for everything and claimed foreknowledge of history.  Everything was already predetermined and as saved Christians we were assured of a happy ending no matter what (it started to feel so unsettling and painful though, when I lost my beloved first pet, Mory.  I was told there was no happy ending for Mory, because he wasn't the right species and he wasn't saved.  My happy ending started to crumble.  No Mory, no happy ending).  Despite all the trusted adults in my life assuring me of my guaranteed happy eternity and the absolute trustworthiness of the Bible, it always felt so wrong. It is that feeling in the pit of your stomach when you feel like gravity has dropped out and you are about to be in a free fall.  Intellectually I trusted but Instinctually I knew the promises of Christianity were all B.S. and would amount to nothing, but still it took years to admit that to myself and to let go of the security blanket of a guaranteed happy ending. 

 

I know for a fact that I don't have the truth and no one does, and that truth is impossible to know.  Even if a "god" appeared to us and told us all the Truth about everything, how could we believe him?  Maybe he's not god, maybe he's a hologram.  Maybe he is god and he's lying about stuff.  Maybe he is god but he's insane.  Maybe we're all insane.  What we take as a well-established fact today may be proven false tomorrow as the world continues to evolve.  The only reality I know is what I can see with my eyes and feel with my hands, even that may be a lie (think of Jim Carrey on The Truman Show), but it's all I have to go on.  The only thing that's really real and really matters to me anymore is love.  Reality is that I love my pet dog, my dead mum, my best friend. 

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Here are some quotes from unbelievers about embracing the truth and feeling like life has meaning without myths.

 

“After sleeping through a hundred million centuries we have finally opened our eyes on a sumptuous planet, sparkling with color, bountiful with life. Within decades we must close our eyes again. Isn’t it a noble, an enlightened way of spending our brief time in the sun, to work at understanding the universe and how we have come to wake up in it? This is how I answer when I am asked—as I am surprisingly often—why I bother to get up in the mornings.” 
― Richard Dawkins

 

“We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Arabia. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively exceeds the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds, how dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state from which the vast majority have never stirred?” 
― Richard Dawkins, Unweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder

 

“For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.” 
― Charles Bukowski

 

“The only position that leaves me with no cognitive dissonance is atheism. It is not a creed. Death is certain, replacing both the siren-song of Paradise and the dread of Hell. Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more.” 

- Christopher Hitchens

 

“We can judge our progress by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers, our willingness to embrace what is true rather than what feels good.” 

― Carl Sagan

 

“When people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them that the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the big bang, so there is no time for god to make the universe in. It’s like asking directions to the edge of the earth; The Earth is a sphere; it doesn’t have an edge; so looking for it is a futile exercise. We are each free to believe what we want, and it’s my view that the simplest explanation is; there is no god. No one created our universe,and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization; There is probably no heaven, and no afterlife either. We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe, and for that I am extremely grateful.” 
― Stephen Hawking

 

And here is our list of favourite youtubers... you may find something in there that resonates with you. Philhellenes is good.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/66560-your-favourite-atheist-youtubers/#.VPQt03yUeug

[TheOutsider]

I can't recommend The Thinking Atheist podcast enough, find an episode with an interesting topic and start listening. I have a hard time imagining you will regret it, and it might help you get your mind off things. He also has a book, Deconverted, I haven't read it yet but I plan on picking it up soon, might be worth checking out.

[StJeffTheIncomprehensible]

Hi SItka,

 

Sorry to hear you're struggling through this--false beliefs can have a tenacious hold.

 

When I was a kid I believed in Santa Claus. I thought we had a pretty good relationship--I'd write him letters every so often, he'd stop in for a yearly visit, I even modified my behavior for a few weeks every December, just to make him happy. Thinking of him gave me hours of happiness. We had a good thing going. Then I found out he wasn't even real, and I felt betrayed, foolish, and, every Christmas, empty. Christmas just wasn't the same.

 

This lasted a few years, but I grew out of it.

 

Give it some time, Sitka. Your faith was something important to you, obviously, and there's going to be some mixed feelings for a while. It won't always be this way. You'll figure out what matters to you as you make your way through life without your false beliefs. You'll find you really don't need dogma by which to order your life, that you can manage just fine without a voice from heaven. You'll find that purpose is often not something we intentionally make, it comes naturally from just living the life we've been given, being a normal human being, a good friend to others, a good parent, spouse/partner,neighbor.

 

Just be you and see what happens. You might surprise yourself.

[Guest Furball]

I grew up with no religion.

I became a christian at age 17 at a youth convention (assembly of god).   I went because according my friend who invited me said it was going to be a "super fun trip with the youth group, with lots of bands, and music, and speakers, and cute boys."    In hindsight I feel like I was sucked into a cult.

 

You were sucked into that death cult. remember that jesus tells his followers to "fish" for converts. The bait that christians use these days, if not the fear of hell, is using worldly tactics like music and "fun" groups with cute boys etc. Whatever it takes to get you into their system of beliefs. I once went to a church where the pastor said they were going to rent a dance hall and play worldly music to entice unbelievers into the dance hall, when it was packed he said they would shut the music down and start preaching to them. 

[sparklingphoenix]

Hi! Welcome!

I was indoctrinated from birth. Deconverting left me feeling suspended in air with nothing to balance or hold on to. It was really terrifying. The way I got through it was by doing tons of research about science and atheist ways of thinking. I watched all of Richard Dawkins documentaries on youtube, I watched documentaries about christian cults, I also watched Darkmatter2525, Jaclyn Glenn, and Cult of Dusty. Communicating on this site and reading what others have to say about their experiences made me feel less alone and helped me gain a lot of new perspective.  I filled my hole with new knowledge and I gradually came to terms with life through a more realistic lens. It took me almost a year to fully process everything and heal from all the damage. I would say it's going to feel really shitty for a while, but if you keep educating yourself and talking to people on here, keep processing what you're going through, you'll eventually come to terms with it and you'll move on with your life. I was literally obsessed with consuming atheist and scientific material for a solid 9 months. Hope that helps. Good luck! <3 

[wyson]

Hey, if you are anywhere near San Francisco, or a cheap flight away this might appeal:

 

http://new.exchristian.net/2015/03/leaving-your-religion-come-to-journey.html

[disillusioned]

So, what now?  

Answers like "there is no meaning" and "life is whatever you want to make it" and "the purpose of life is different things to different people" and "there is no one truth" completely infuriate me.  I just feel like there can't be more than one truth.  There's one truth, and then everyone else is just lying to themselves and are wrong and they don't even know it.

 

Maybe there is only one truth. Maybe not. In either case, I certainly think its safe to say that if there is only one truth, then I don't know what it is. For me, what this has meant is that I have had to learn to embrace and take joy in the questions, irrespective of whether I know The Answer. I have found that usually I learn more by looking for the answers to questions even if I don't find them than I do by just being given the answer in the first place. So what this means is that I'm extremely hesitant to trust anyone who claims that they have it all figured out. Nobody does. We are all just making it up as we go along.

 

I'm not sure if that's helpful or not.

[Jaseph]

@OP - I've been in your situation. I used to look for one objective meaning for life. People telling me there wasn't any objective meaning to life, just subjective, well... it didn't make sense to me.

 

But, well...

 

...then I left christianity.

 

I feared being judged by people.

 

I feared having no more base for my life. I had the same hole as you describe.

 

Then I decided that it's true. There is no objective meaning. This was difficult at first.

 

But after some reprogramming, I discovered that this is great. Everything that makes me feel good, everything that I value, love or find interesting - everything can give me meaning!

 

I learned that reality is so much greater than myth.

 

Now I no longer desire objective meaning; my life is already filled with meaning. I don't want any fairytale distracting me from that!

[par4dcourse]

I think the purpose of life is the same as camping: leave it better than you found it.

[wyson]

I also wanted to say that you are not alone! Many, many people on this forum went through a phase like this, myself included. After my Christian bubble burst, I felt overwhelmed by the world I was seeing. Life became super painful because it was teaching me that everything I thought and did as a Christian was basically wrong. I was a total misfit in the everyday. What was worse was that the everyday was now reality, and not just something to be temporarily endured, to one day end in a blissful afterlife. I ended up shutting myself off from the world and spiralled down into depression. Better to be depressed than deal with the crippling emotional pain.   And my Christian indoctrination kept me there for some time.  I felt it was beautiful and just to be at odds with the world, because I thought the model of reality depicted in John was natural and normal. Other gospels depicted (was it Luke?) suffering leading to glory, again something that I felt was natural and normal.  What I "knew" had placed me in a dark, horrible pit and kept me prisoner there.  

 

It was only when I started to fight to make the everyday normal I realised that I needed help and only started to recover when I decided to move on from what I "knew".  This was a huge step.  It mean for one, accepting myself for who I was, good points, "bad" desires and all.  After thinking of myself as a worthless, undeserving sinner for most of my formative years, this was tough!     I also started to work on developing REAL skills, involving practice and training, everything from communication skills, to learning about how to develop a career and talk in professional situations, to training my thoughts into more healthy patterns using therapy books. Again this was hard because previously, in the main I had relied on supernatural faith based solutions.... eg. My boss would grant me a promotion because I prayed for it, rather than because I compiled a dossier of achievements to show him how valuable I was to his organisation.  

 

It's been a long process, much like growing up again. I think I have made a lot of progress (it took 15 years, so I guess I'm like a teen in middle age) but I am going to attend therapy in the near future to talk through issues anyway. I wish I had attended therapy from the beginning as I feel it would have allowed me to become a healthy functioning adult in far less time. But that's the thing.  If you are indoctrinated, and you think you "know" or think you once "knew" and want to feel that way again, well, how likely are you to turn to sources of real help?  How could you admit to a stranger that you don't "know?".

 

Regarding your "hole".  Marlene Winells' concept of an inner child helped me immensely.  Its basically that unsocialised part of yourself that knows what it is and what it wants.  Once I started to listen to my inner child, I stopped feeling a void or a hole because basically, I would tell myself what to do and act on my own wants and desires.  It was hard initially, because I had been conditioned into thinking my core self was fallen and things I would want were therefore intrinsically bad, but I persevered.   After listening to myself for a few months,  nurturing and caring for this "inner child" one day, I was walking along the road and realised that I was happy.   I felt a contentment I hadn't experienced since my conversion at 10.   

 

I also found my "inner child" wanted things thought to totally acceptable in society.  And doing my reading, I discovered that unless you are a sociopath (3-5% of the population, largely genetically determined), or have some underlying disorder or issue, then the great, great majority of people would want things and behave in a way acceptable to society, because that is how we evolved through natural selection.

 

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that you will have to go through a process, but one day you will be happy again.  Try to let go of what you "know" and embrace change.   If your Christianity was a cover for something else (feeling helpless and lost after death or sudden loss = My mom,  emotionally abusive parents = My friend etc) then try to resolve those issues too.  Get as much outside help as you can.

[Orbit]

So, what now?  

Answers like "there is no meaning" and "life is whatever you want to make it" and "the purpose of life is different things to different people" and "there is no one truth" completely infuriate me.  I just feel like there can't be more than one truth.  There's one truth, and then everyone else is just lying to themselves and are wrong and they don't even know it.

  

Maybe those responses are true, maybe not.  The point is, I need help with how unsettled I am.  I would just really really appreciate any thoughts.  Feel free to point me to books or videos that might be helpful.  

Is there a way to get through this without lying to myself, or having faith that something is true, or without sinking into a depressive pit?

Do you reject the idea that there isn't one truth as a habit of mind left over from Christianity? After all, we were heavily indoctrinated to believe that there was only one truth. In the months after my deconversion. I explored this question myself, and settled on the Perennial Philosophy, which basically says that there is wisdom in many world religions, and taking advantage of that wisdom can be the basis for your personal spiritual practice. There are also different levels of understanding religion. It sounds like you are operating on the "mythic" level, where you look to external authorities (the church, in the past) to tell you what is true, and to tell you the meaning to life. It may be helpful for you to transcend that way of thinking by turning inward and trusting your own experience. For me, this involves regular meditation. For you, it may take any form that promotes introspection. What does your gut tell you is the meaning of life? Go with that.

[florduh]

Answers like "there is no meaning" and "life is whatever you want to make it" and "the purpose of life is different things to different people" and "there is no one truth" completely infuriate me.  I just feel like there can't be more than one truth.  There's one truth, and then everyone else is just lying to themselves and are wrong and they don't even know it.

 

I can't see how there can be more than one Truth. Either (name a god) runs the universe or he/she does not. Either consciousness is a product of brain activity or it is not. We do or do not have souls. Prayer either works or it doesn't. We live in a magical universe that is largely unseen and undetected or we do not.

 

If you accept the premise that there exists some unseen realm where the rules of physics don't apply, then you will drive yourself crazy trying to figure out which construct or guess is actually true, if any. To me the only reasonable course is to accept that for which we have evidence, then you don't need to wonder if you've seen a ghost, demon, angel, alien, fairy or leprechaun and instead realize the many physical ways anomalous brain activity is caused.

[disillusioned]

 

So, what now?  

Answers like "there is no meaning" and "life is whatever you want to make it" and "the purpose of life is different things to different people" and "there is no one truth" completely infuriate me.  I just feel like there can't be more than one truth.  There's one truth, and then everyone else is just lying to themselves and are wrong and they don't even know it.

  

Maybe those responses are true, maybe not.  The point is, I need help with how unsettled I am.  I would just really really appreciate any thoughts.  Feel free to point me to books or videos that might be helpful.  

Is there a way to get through this without lying to myself, or having faith that something is true, or without sinking into a depressive pit?

Do you reject the idea that there isn't one truth as a habit of mind left over from Christianity? After all, we were heavily indoctrinated to believe that there was only one truth. In the months after my deconversion. I explored this question myself, and settled on the Perennial Philosophy, which basically says that there is wisdom in many world religions, and taking advantage of that wisdom can be the basis for your personal spiritual practice. There are also different levels of understanding religion. It sounds like you are operating on the "mythic" level, where you look to external authorities (the church, in the past) to tell you what is true, and to tell you the meaning to life. It may be helpful for you to transcend that way of thinking by turning inward and trusting your own experience. For me, this involves regular meditation. For you, it may take any form that promotes introspection. What does your gut tell you is the meaning of life? Go with that.

 

 

This seems to me to be good advice. Exploring different areas of knowledge has been very beneficial for me as well. Learn about different philosophies. Learn about logic. Learn about science and math. Learn about different religions. Learn about history. Unfetter your mind, and see where it takes you.