"you Sound Like Me When I Was 20..."

[eXcelInferno]

My brother says this to me all the time.

 

The first time he said it to me, it drove me nuts. I was still a devout catholic (albeit with a few doubts), and he was a full-blown anti-theist. He was throwing anti-theist arguments at me and I was doing my best to muster up some answers to his well-thought out points. But I knew I was on the losing side.

 

A bit about myself: I grew up Catholic. My parents are very serious about it, as are my grandparents and pretty much every other older relative on either side of my family. Ever since I was a child we had Bible readings, daily prayer time, went to church every Sunday, and were always taught to seek God's will. Marriage was "the most important decision of our lives", and I think that was double for me because I am the female child in our family. Sex outside of marriage was THE most horrible thing you could possibly do with your life, and we were fed stories about how people waited till marriage and had the best marriages, the best relationships with God, and the best prosperity.

 

It was easy to believe. My parents have a good marriage. They are happy and well off. If they did it and are happy, who am I to question?

 

During my teens and early adulthood I got quite involved with the church doing music, vacation bible school and other camps. You name it, I was there. My parents were very supportive of all this, and I made quite a name for myself. Everyone in each church knew me. It was great. I had this weird fame that revolved around my music playing, church activity, and of course, youth. People love young church-goers.

 

Even among all this though, there was always this guilt. Always this fear of not doing enough. Not being good enough. I rarely read the Bible, I didn't like going to confession, I didn't stick up for the faith sometimes. When I went to university I knew that I couldn't help the poor with where I was at, I rarely had time to myself, let alone for prayer, and I could never figure out God's will for me. I remember that I would have a recurring episode in which I would lay in bed at night and cry, talking to God, apologizing for... for something. It would happen on a regular basis. This is something I tell people when they try to bring me back to the faith by saying, "You were so happy before!" No. I was not.

 

The importance of waiting till marriage was also perpetuated throughout my teen and young adult years. I must admit I was convinced. I bought all of the phrases such as "If he won't wait for you then he doesn't love you," "Don't settle for anything less than what God has intended for you," and "Sex is so beautiful that it's the closest thing to what it's like to be with God."

 

Wait what?

 

This all became very interesting when I started dating a non-catholic man. I started dating him because he was a virgin and "seemed to respect women," and yes I will admit, I wanted to convert him. I apologize to every single person who has ever had this happen to them. It is a horrible thing to have happen to you. I deeply regret my motivation behind starting to date him but I sure as hell do not regret the decision as a whole.

 

I straight up told him I would not have sex with him before marriage. He seemed to be okay with it. I slowly learned, however, that he was not. Every time we were alone, we would go a bit further. I wanted to do these things with him but I knew they were wrong and dirty. I tried so many times to push boundaries on him and retract things that had already been done. I felt guilty every time things went further than before and went to confession for that reason many times. It was a horrible cycle of guilt, confusion, and blame. I prayed about it constantly and got mixed signals from God. I was always thinking that I should break up with him because I was always so confused, but he was such a wonderful guy. His trust in me suffered because of this, as did his self image.

 

I did break up with him once. We got back together but I really don't know why he gave me a second chance.

 

It finally got to the point where we were doing everything except having intercourse. I was frustrated. I was tired. I was wondering why God would do this to me and my man was sick of the games of the church. Then I visited my brother.

 

My brother didn't say anything to me about sex. We had an argument over religion itself, but nothing to do with sex. But I saw how he is with his girlfriend, and that sex doesn't seem to ruin their lives, nor the lives of other close family members. In fact, my brother has a great relationship with his girlfriend. I wondered if my relationship could be like this if our favourite argument topic (sex) was no longer an issue.

 

Back at home, my boyfriend is shitting himself because every time I've gone away somewhere it's been bad news for our relationship (for example, breaking up with him right after coming back from a trip...) So imagine his shock when I come back and give him my consent to have sex! He is very courteous and respectful about it, asks me if I'm sure, and makes sure I'm 100% serious.

 

I don't know how I avoided the guilt. I think there was some initially but eventually I slowly realized that sex was actually IMPROVING our relationship by leaps and bounds. And not even necessarily the act itself, but just goddamn AGREEING on it and not having to unhealthily shoot down any "lustful" thought. My man still loved me deeply, and because of my changing beliefs his self esteem improved considerably. I stopped worrying about him "corrupting" me and actually decided to commit to him instead of being the girl who cried breakup. All of this put together has created this amazing upward spiral in which I appreciate my man more, we both feel better about ourselves, and we both are inspired to grow both outside and inside our relationship. We used to be very clingy, see.

 

Now then. My initial doubt towards God, combined with this stark evidence that the church is so utterly wrong about sex before marriage gave me no choice but to change my views. I was thoroughly devastated and confused. I tried to go back a few times and had the misfortune of moving in with some very religious people right before my deconversion. But after more thinking, researching, and discussing, I finally decided I can never go back. The crux of it all? The God of the Bible is not loving… and neither are the people who advocate him.

 

It is tough to extricate myself from the churches I became famous in. My grandma keeps telling me that everyone in my church loves me and the church needs people like me. She calls me and tells me to please, please don't stop going to church. She cries every time she gets the feeling I'm not coming back. My parents cried when I told them. They partially blame my boyfriend (though they already really liked him before all this so that's a plus). They send me and him stuff telling me why they're catholic every now and then. It really hurts receiving those because I know, god damn do I know, how deeply I have hurt them. I used to feel that way about people I loved who turned away too.

 

But this is where I am now, and despite all this, I truly do feel free. I’ve been ex-Christian for about 6 months now, and I am happier than I have ever been. I would do it all again if I had to. My parents tell me that my brother says that too. He went through the same thing, and he supports me. He's been helping me a lot through this.

 

I sound like him when he was 20… Maybe not such a bad thing after all.

[StJeffTheIncomprehensible]

Hi eXcellnferno,

 

Yeah, the bible is wrong about sex too, just like on every other subject. Thanks for sharing a little part of your story, and I hope you will find much to help you here--good conversation, good support, and people who have shared similar experiences.

 

(For what it's worth, my wife and I had sex before marriage too, and I suffered horrible guilt for it. But, my penis didn't fall off, we didn't ruin our lives, and 25 yrs. later we're still happily married.)

[♦ ficino ♦]

The crux of it all? The God of the Bible is not loving… and neither are the people who advocate him.

Great account of how you got to this realization, EI! Welcome to this site. You have a lot of insights. Thank you for sharing some of them.

[Llwellyn]

Inferno --

 

Thanks for sharing your story -- that was very kind of you.  You ARE good enough -- good enough for me, good enough for you.  All it takes is humanity.  As an atheist, I will tell you that you are NOT a sinner, and you are worthy and worthwhile to the rest of us.  Congrats on removing the mental blockages about sex.  You have crossed the threshold that all of our ancestors did.  When our artificial religion conflicts with our deepest impulses and biology, then it is obvious which one must fall.  It's tough to break from family, but wht you are experiencing is not simply leaving the religion, but also growing up and forming new bonds of loyalty.  Hopefully your parents will support you no matter what your religion -- especially when they see that atheism offers you so many vital benefits.

 

 

 

[eXcelInferno]

Thanks guys. Good to know there's some true unconditional love here.

 

Also heartening to be reminded that premarital sex does not spontaneously eradicate genitals. Phew!

[StJeffTheIncomprehensible]

Also heartening to be reminded that premarital sex does not spontaneously eradicate genitals. Phew!

 

You can imagine my relief at finding this out.

 

Speaking of genitals . . . I used to chant in church. Every Orthodox Vespers service ends with a biblical hymn taken known in the West as the Nunc Dimittis--as a former Catholic you should be familiar with it. "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace." There's a line toward the end that says, "A light to enlighten the Gentiles." Yep, you guessed it--once I was on auto-pilot while chanting and came out with, "A light to enlighten the genitals."

 

There was tremendous joy in the house of the Lord over that one.

[amateur]

Hi eXcelInferno!  I like what you've written, you've described well what you've lived through and your thoughts on it.

 

In my opinion, sex between consenting adults is how adults get to play together.  Nothing to do with sin or good or bad.  It's just playing.  Like when you're a kid, you play with your friends, not just one friend, but any friends you have, and any kid you meet at a playground on or on the beach that seems friendly enough.  Playing is fun, as a kid or adult.

 

In pre-good-health-care and good-contraceptive times, I can see why people said wait until marriage to have sex, and only have sex with your spouse.  But with the good contraception we have today, antibiotics, and other safety nets, sex really can be just an enjoyable, fun thing between adults!  And that doesn't belittle it or make it meaningless.  Sex is truly a joy in life!

[Ellinas]

Welcome.

 

It's amazing that a religion can be so far off the mark that it cannot see how a natural act of (for want of a better word) bonding enhances a relationship.

[eXcelInferno]

Jeff - That is hilarious! Would've been great to watch. I hope you weren't TOO embarrassed.

 

Amateur - That is an interesting way to look at it! I can't say I'd say the same but it's good to know that not everybody has such a stigma about it.

 

Ellinas - Thanks! And absolutely. One of the big things that really confused me was the huge difference they seemed to create between a married couple and a dating couple. They are essentially the same thing, except one pair walked down an aisle and gave each other rings... But only one group is allowed to have sex? Sounds bizarre to me.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Jeff - That is hilarious! Would've been great to watch. I hope you weren't TOO embarrassed.

 

Amateur - That is an interesting way to look at it! I can't say I'd say the same but it's good to know that not everybody has such a stigma about it.

 

Ellinas - Thanks! And absolutely. One of the big things that really confused me was the huge difference they seemed to create between a married couple and a dating couple. They are essentially the same thing, except one pair walked down an aisle and gave each other rings... But only one group is allowed to have sex? Sounds bizarre to me.

For orthodox Catholics, the married couple is only supposed to have sex when procreation of children is part of the intention, at least potentially. Though it seems sort of hypocritical that the strict Catholics allow even the rhythm method.

[eXcelInferno]

Yeah there was elements of that in my former faith too, but nobody seemed to really be able to explain it or give good reasons for it. I don't know where that idea even came from, it's just so counterintuitive.

[SCM]

Loved reading this, and welcome to the site! there are some good people here.

you have a great way of presenting your ideas/story

 

I'm glad to hear you have at least one family member who supports you, and being six months out feels pretty good amiright

[LifeCycle]

Excellent extimony! All great points! You're right, life is so much better on this side. They'd like to say, "because you get to do what you want without the guilt." Well, that's what they're supposed to say. But the truth is, there's no freedom in Christ. It's complete control, just like every other religion before it. It's not any different... Which is why it's just as much a myth as the rest it also likes to discount.

 

[eXcelInferno]

Thanks a lot guys!

 

Yeah it feels really good. I've been finding that I've been struggling a bit more with the emotional aspects lately though. I'm past all the intellectual decisions and now it's just about removing myself and feeling good about it. Tough when people are always telling you that you're becoming the corrupt version of yourself. But it goes. I have some good support and I know things will get better, I've seen it with my brother!

 

So true. It's one of the things that irks me most, that they say Christ is "true freedom," when really it's the biggest form of mind control ever. If you look at some models of mind control and groupthink it is obvious that Christianity checks every single one of the boxes.

[00LukeMan]

Your story is really encouraging to me.

Having entirely discarded my old faith, I am now in the interesting period of reevaluating my position on just about everything. Naturally one of the many things I have had to think about has been sex. I've never really had a problem with anyone else doing it, as long as they are consenting adults I don't care about their gender or even how many of them there are. But for me it was somehow always different.

Imagine my surprise when, for example, I realized that if I get married, I will likely want to marry an atheist. A godless atheist! Oh wait, I'm an atheist, right. But it was somehow still a surprise after a lifetime of teaching that only Christians were okay to marry.

Another thing was sex outside of marriage, obviously out of the question, except it's not. Weird.

Hearing from people like yourself has been so very uplifting. People can live godless un-Christian lives and being happier for it. So thank you.

 

Luke

[eXcelInferno]

Luke,

You are so welcome! I'm glad my story has encouraged somebody. I am in the same boat as you, re-evaluating everything. It's an interesting process, isn't it? I find a lot more freedom though, now that I can actually choose what I think rather than being forced to believe something and having to search desperately for reasons why it's right.