Can We Overcome Our Genetic Predispositions?

[Ravenstar]

 

Thank you, I understand this. I'm not sure you are understanding my question though. MM also says I am crapping on a science thread (MY science thread), when I say "I don't know and am ignorant"....which is not a crime mind you.....but the reality is I'm not sure anyone knows the answer to what I am asking. And your response does not answer, for me anyhow, my question.....so I will restate to the best of my ability...with added ignorance of course. Hell, at least I admit to such. So here goes.

 

I guess my question is, if there are parts of the body that would have no control over genetic susceptibility, then why does the brain have any more capability to overcome susceptibility than the rest of the body? I'm not looking for a general answer like Ravenstar suggested. I am looking for a mechanism like RougeScholar put forth.

 

it would be easier to answer if you were more specific in your question… it is vague, and will most likely get a vague answer.

 

First of all WHICH parts of the body are you referring to when you say parts that have no control over genetic susceptibility? I don't get it… there are autonomic responses, like insulin regulation or sneezing… breathing - which is an automatic function… the brain is a computer, basically - a very complex one, but it does computations, comparisons, file retention and retrieval… associations…the brain controls ALL the other parts. Either subconsciously, automatically or in response to stimuli (internal or external) or consciously - we can override some processes with our cognition and volition…some we can't (automatic systems for example - insulin regulation - though we can affect it by consciously choosing a better lifestyle to take care of our sugar intake and metabolism, for example).

 

What the hell are you getting at?

[Ravenstar]

 

 

MM also says I am crapping on a science thread (MY science thread), when I say "I don't know and am ignorant"....which is not a crime mind you.....but the reality is I'm not sure anyone knows the answer to what I am asking.

 

No, not for admitting that you are ignorant.  Rather for the way afterwards that you assert that it must be a specific thing because God.

 

I suck at chemistry.  You don't see me barging into a chemistry thread saying "I know I am ignorant but clearly base and acids are just two sides of the same coin because the Flying Spaghetti Monster".

 

Look, it's pretty simple, it either happens through chemistry AND God or just through chemistry. I never asserted that it was because of God, I said it could be.....but if you will notice, the overwhelming majority of my thoughts point to the mechanics of chemistry. Why the hell can y'all just not leave the "stupid Christian" part out and go with the flow....the very reason I put her on ignore.....because she thinks it's fun being a bitch supported by her anti-Christian and feminism crutches.

 

And, any anti-God person would know that I am actually arguing for something that they espouse anyhow. How profoundly stupid is that? But, reductionism doesn't disallow God....it just makes a better case for sin.

 

So, let's please carry on. I will try to put my crutches away as well. Thanks.

 

No, it doesn't.

[mymistake]

 

 

MM also says I am crapping on a science thread (MY science thread), when I say "I don't know and am ignorant"....which is not a crime mind you.....but the reality is I'm not sure anyone knows the answer to what I am asking.

 

No, not for admitting that you are ignorant.  Rather for the way afterwards that you assert that it must be a specific thing because God.

 

I suck at chemistry.  You don't see me barging into a chemistry thread saying "I know I am ignorant but clearly base and acids are just two sides of the same coin because the Flying Spaghetti Monster".

 

Look, it's pretty simple, it either happens through chemistry AND God or just through chemistry.

 

 

False!

 

It either happens though just chemistry,

 

or it happens through chemistry and God,

 

or it happens through chemistry and God and Odin,

 

or it happens through chemistry and Odin

 

or it happens through chemistry and God and Odin and Ra,

 

or it happens through chemistry and Odin and Ra,

 

or it happens through chemistry and Ra,

 

or it happens through chemistry and God and Odin and Ra and Aphrodite,

 

or it happens through chemistry and Odin and Ra and Aphrodite,

 

or it happens through chemistry and God and Ra and Aphrodite,

 

or it happens through chemistry and God and Odin and Aphrodite,

 

or it happens through chemistry and Aphrodite,

 

or it happens through chemistry and God and Odin and Ra and Aphrodite and Krishna,

 

or it happens through chemistry and Odin and Ra and Aphrodite and Krishna,

 

Plus millions of other combinations

 

 

 

 

 

Now the proper thing to do is apply Occam's Razor and cut away all the possible causes that have no evidence that they even exist.  You commit the spacial pleading fallacy if you make an exception for God without a decent reason.

 

 

 

. . . leave the "stupid Christian" part out . . . 

 

I do try to respect you but you make that very hard.  I don't force you to be a racist, sexist, anti-science or just plain rude.  You don't communicate well and you get pissed off when people can't understand you.

 

 

 

And, any anti-God person would know that I am actually arguing for something that they espouse anyhow. How profoundly stupid is that? But, reductionism doesn't disallow God....it just makes a better case for sin.

 

This is nonsensical.  Really I can't tell what you think you are saying.

[Guest end3]

 

Thank you, I understand this. I'm not sure you are understanding my question though. MM also says I am crapping on a science thread (MY science thread), when I say "I don't know and am ignorant"....which is not a crime mind you.....but the reality is I'm not sure anyone knows the answer to what I am asking. And your response does not answer, for me anyhow, my question.....so I will restate to the best of my ability...with added ignorance of course. Hell, at least I admit to such. So here goes.

 

I guess my question is, if there are parts of the body that would have no control over genetic susceptibility, then why does the brain have any more capability to overcome susceptibility than the rest of the body? I'm not looking for a general answer like Ravenstar suggested. I am looking for a mechanism like RougeScholar put forth.

it would be easier to answer if you were more specific in your question… it is vague, and will most likely get a vague answer.

 

First of all WHICH parts of the body are you referring to when you say parts that have no control over genetic susceptibility? I don't get it… there are autonomic responses, like insulin regulation or sneezing… breathing - which is an automatic function… the brain is a computer, basically - a very complex one, but it does computations, comparisons, file retention and retrieval… associations…the brain controls ALL the other parts. Either subconsciously, automatically or in response to stimuli (internal or external) or consciously - we can override some processes with our cognition and volition…some we can't (automatic systems for example - insulin regulation - though we can affect it by consciously choosing a better lifestyle to take care of our sugar intake and metabolism, for example).

 

What the hell are you getting at?

 

Autonomic still requires some chemical mechanism, regardless....a reacts with b and b reacts with c to form d. One would think that these involuntary processes would be a very good example of something that could be vulnerable to genetic susceptibility. CF, Sickle cell. To answer, I'm sure there are a myriad of processes within the body that are involuntary. So my thoughts are that there almost has to be genetic susceptibility in the brain regardless of how well "the computer" works or nurture or subjection to environment etc. If it doesn't work as it should (brain disease), or any other result of genetics, then why in the world would we not expect it behave any differently than some autonomic process. And specifically, is a brain cell involuntary on it's own but voluntary in a group? Does genetics even override voluntary control. I'm thinking most certainly it does.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

End, trying to take a cheap shot at feminism doesn't make you appear more intelligent, thoughtful or ethical than you otherwise would.

 

People like you are no different to those who wonder why African Americans are still trying to get effective civil rights and end racism, especially in the South.

 

You, as a middle class white xian male, are unlikely to understand why anti-racism and feminism are needed in 2015, but there are plenty of guys in your shoes who have made the effort to find out.

 

You claim you are no longer a fundamentalist xian.  Perhaps if you made more of an effort to let go of the prejudices that go with that, we might start believing you.

[Guest end3]

Ok Ravenstar.

 

My question is, what makes the brain chemistry voluntary rather than involuntary. I expect this is a much easier way to express my thoughts....the very long way around.

End, trying to take a cheap shot at feminism doesn't make you appear more intelligent, thoughtful or ethical than you otherwise would.

 

People like you are no different to those who wonder why African Americans are still trying to get effective civil rights and end racism, especially in the South.

 

You, as a middle class white xian male, are unlikely to understand why anti-racism and feminism are needed in 2015, but there are plenty of guys in your shoes who have made the effort to find out.

 

You claim you are no longer a fundamentalist xian.  Perhaps if you made more of an effort to let go of the prejudices that go with that, we might start believing you.

You pretend to know what I think. Equal is equal. You show me equal and I have no problem. Other than that, activism can certainly become a crutch much like this entire response you have formulated. "Your" crap just gets incredibly wearisome and PCish to the point of doing the activism a disservice. Not that you would take this to heart. Please sweetheart, put me on ignore as well and we will both be better off.

[mymistake]

Ok Ravenstar.

 

My question is, what makes the brain chemistry voluntary rather than involuntary. I expect this is a much easier way to express my thoughts....the very long way around.

 

 

 

Even thought I suck at chemistry I understand that voluntary refers to consciousness.  Consciousness is something a healthy, functioning mammal brain can do.  Consciousness arises - it is an emergent property.  The part of you that you call "me" is something your brain creates.

 

You do not micromanage your body on a cellular level.  You have some control over some of your body's systems.  Mostly you have power over locomotion and movement.  That isn't chemistry.  Your nervous system or your brain stem control your chemistry on a subconscious level.

[Guest end3]

 

Ok Ravenstar.

 

My question is, what makes the brain chemistry voluntary rather than involuntary. I expect this is a much easier way to express my thoughts....the very long way around.

 

 

Even thought I suck at chemistry I understand that voluntary refers to consciousness.  Consciousness is something a healthy, functioning mammal brain can do.  Consciousness arises - it is an emergent property.  The part of you that you call "me" is something your brain creates.

 

You do not micromanage your body on a cellular level.  You have some control over some of your body's systems.  Mostly you have power over locomotion and movement.  That isn't chemistry.  Your nervous system or your brain stem control your chemistry on a subconscious level.

 

I'm saying your body micromanages your body on a cellular level and less. It's ALL chemistry.

[mymistake]

 

 

Ok Ravenstar.

 

My question is, what makes the brain chemistry voluntary rather than involuntary. I expect this is a much easier way to express my thoughts....the very long way around.

 

 

Even thought I suck at chemistry I understand that voluntary refers to consciousness.  Consciousness is something a healthy, functioning mammal brain can do.  Consciousness arises - it is an emergent property.  The part of you that you call "me" is something your brain creates.

 

You do not micromanage your body on a cellular level.  You have some control over some of your body's systems.  Mostly you have power over locomotion and movement.  That isn't chemistry.  Your nervous system or your brain stem control your chemistry on a subconscious level.

 

I'm saying your body micromanages your body on a cellular level and less. It's ALL chemistry.

 

 

 

Yes, the brain is part of the human body so one's body micromanages one's body.  That would mean it is involuntary so questions of what makes it voluntary are irrelevant.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Ok Ravenstar.

 

My question is, what makes the brain chemistry voluntary rather than involuntary. I expect this is a much easier way to express my thoughts....the very long way around.

End, trying to take a cheap shot at feminism doesn't make you appear more intelligent, thoughtful or ethical than you otherwise would.

 

People like you are no different to those who wonder why African Americans are still trying to get effective civil rights and end racism, especially in the South.

 

You, as a middle class white xian male, are unlikely to understand why anti-racism and feminism are needed in 2015, but there are plenty of guys in your shoes who have made the effort to find out.

 

You claim you are no longer a fundamentalist xian.  Perhaps if you made more of an effort to let go of the prejudices that go with that, we might start believing you.

You pretend to know what I think. Equal is equal. You show me equal and I have no problem. Other than that, activism can certainly become a crutch much like this entire response you have formulated. "Your" crap just gets incredibly wearisome and PCish to the point of doing the activism a disservice. Not that you would take this to heart. Please sweetheart, put me on ignore as well and we will both be better off.

 

 

Noted, another sexist term, when used in this context.

 

You can try and justify your sexism and general bigotry all you like.  No one is buying it.

 

Put you on ignore?  No need.  Your posts amuse me.

[Orbit]

Ok Ravenstar.

 

My question is, what makes the brain chemistry voluntary rather than involuntary. I expect this is a much easier way to express my thoughts....the very long way around.

End, trying to take a cheap shot at feminism doesn't make you appear more intelligent, thoughtful or ethical than you otherwise would.

 

People like you are no different to those who wonder why African Americans are still trying to get effective civil rights and end racism, especially in the South.

 

You, as a middle class white xian male, are unlikely to understand why anti-racism and feminism are needed in 2015, but there are plenty of guys in your shoes who have made the effort to find out.

 

You claim you are no longer a fundamentalist xian.  Perhaps if you made more of an effort to let go of the prejudices that go with that, we might start believing you.

You pretend to know what I think. Equal is equal. You show me equal and I have no problem. Other than that, activism can certainly become a crutch much like this entire response you have formulated. "Your" crap just gets incredibly wearisome and PCish to the point of doing the activism a disservice. Not that you would take this to heart. Please sweetheart, put me on ignore as well and we will both be better off.

 

"Sweetheart"? Really?

[RogueScholar]

End, you seem to be neglecting many other complex processes that occur outside of DNA. [EDIT: This is quite easy to do because complex processes are involved that are not discussed in day to day conversation] While the general picture does follow DNA --> Copied to RNA (transcription)--->RNA "read" by ribosomes to produce proteins (translation), an entire complicated picture revolves around concepts that are outside of transcription and translation. In fact, a contemporary field of study known as epigenetics has risen and is beginning to understand changes that do not involve the actual base pairing or DNA sequence (the genome) but may alter the expression of certain traits (the genotype). 

 

You must remember, the nucleus is exceptionally complex and contains much more than just the DNA.  In fact, the nucleus is dense in protein. In fact, DNA is wrapped around special proteins known as histones. Additionally, many enzymes exist in the nucleus that assists with the folding, unfolding and copying of the DNA. Also remember, the nucleus in eukaryotic cells (like human cells) is enveloped in a nuclear membrane.  This membrane has pores and can regulate what substances pass into and out of the nucleus. All of this means that the phenotype may be altered by multiple processes that are not directly related to the sequence of DNA base pairs.

 

To give another pharmacology/biochemistry example, I will refer to a drug known as phenobarbitol. We have known for several decades that patients who receive phenobarbitol have a markedly increased expression of cytochrome P-450 enzymes (CYP's). This leads to marked alterations in the way these patients metabolise other substances. More recently, we have been able to elucidate the mechanism for this response and it is a little mind blowing if I may be so bold to say so.

 

I believe Curt J Omiecinski's lab in Seattle were one of the first to hypothesise that a certain area of DNA may be involved by experimenting with mice that lacked this particular "section" of DNA. Predictably, the mice without this area did not respond to the phenobarbitol. This may seem like just another case of altering DNA leads to a change in phenotype? However, the story takes a turn to the strange.

 

A few other groups did additional work that narrowed the region of DNA involved. This area is currently known as the phenobarbitol responsive unit (PBRU). However, more recent work out of the NIH labs under Dr. Masahiko Negishi revealed an astounding "fact." They demonstrated that phenobarbitol did not mutate the DNA to cause said changes but rather the phenobarbitol interacted with a receptor known as the constitutive androstane receptor (CAR). When this receptor and a partner molecule were present, they actually suppressed the PBRU. Then, after phenobarbitol was given, it reversed the gene repression that was normally kept in check by the CAR and its "partner."

 

This is significant to me because it demonstrates the fact that there are genes in or DNA that are kept in a state of repression and outside influences can essentially turn these genes on and cause the expression of a phenotype that would not "naturally" exist. This is even more significant because it does not involve altering the DNA structure, but rather involves processes that are not "directly" related to the DNA.

 

The bottom line being that there is a complex interplay between the concepts of "nature" and "nurture" if you will. Applying what we already know to a field that neither you nor I understand well, mainly neuroscience, it is plausible that this complex interplay likely impacts cognitions and behaviour. Think about all the different receptors, ion channels and neurotransmitters involved with the basic function of even one neuron? I would be happy to discuss basic neurophysiology, but hopefully you are beginning to see a vast world emerging from the application of rigorous scientific inquiry and methodology?

 

[Orbit]

 

So, End3, I write a post in which I share how I overcame two different, yet connected, genetic predispositions and you have no response?  Is it because you don't understand how someone could do such a thing without the love of jesus that you're not responding?  I know you're not too busy wrestling your own demons because you have responded to others (albeit, rather rudely).  So, why not respond to mine?  Have I graduated to "ignore"?

No, she started the shit unprovoked. I just want to discuss the thread. For the love of God, I have no understanding why, after a given period of time, people can't put their shit away. Which is likely why I am seeking this understanding, because I would like to put MY shit away. Given we could understand this question, I'm gathering we could throw our crutches away....like feminism. Lol, sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

Feminism is not a crutch. Without feminism women couldn't vote, own property, inherit, or have credit in their own names. Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Guest end3]

Yes, the brain is part of the human body so one's body micromanages one's body.  That would mean it is involuntary so questions of what makes it voluntary are irrelevant.

Be careful, you are about to make a point for my side.

[mymistake]

 

Yes, the brain is part of the human body so one's body micromanages one's body.  That would mean it is involuntary so questions of what makes it voluntary are irrelevant.

Be careful, you are about to make a point for my side.

 

 

 

Huh?  What is your side and how am I making a point for it?  

 

Look, I don't mind if you understand something within science.  That would actually be great.

 

I would only encourage to to understand more.  That is what I am trying to do.

[Ravenstar]

"My question is, what makes the brain chemistry voluntary rather than involuntary. I expect this is a much easier way to express my thoughts....the very long way around."

 

​Brain chemistry isn't voluntary… THINKING is voluntary, your brain takes those thought and INVOLUNTARILY makes the chemicals and signals that correspond with those thoughts (memories, pathways, etc…)

 

I am ADHD (without the H) my brain CHEMISTRY and neurotransmitters function differently from many peoples. They can now see this on an MRI. It's genetic…it tends to run in families. I'm also hyper-sensitive and prone to depression and anxiety… that too is probably a genetic predisposition. I have challenges because of these traits.. people with ADHD tend to be impulsive - i.e.: we don't have the *brakes* regular people do between an urge and an action… I have to CONSCIOUSLY work hard to align my actions with my true values - because sometimes my brain doesn't work well and it wants to do, or say, something RIGHT NOW DAMMIT!. If anyone has foot in mouth disease it's us ADDer's…. It COULD be suggested, because of this lack of impulse control (which is a role of the higher brain - executive function, or the judgement area of the brain) that people with ADHD would be more likely to be immoral - or more likely to 'break the rules'… and this can happen - BUT!  It doesn't have to, because we have the ability, as humans, to override our brain chemistry and act against our impulses. Most of us do… and there are many very good and successful people with ADHD. Richard Branson of Virgin is just one.

 

​I know a bit about psychology and biology because I had this struggle my entire life, and was undiagnosed - didn't have a clue why I was having such a hard time doing what most people have no problems with - mainly life in general. I sought for many years for the problem and solutions… learning a lot along the way about how the human body and brain work. Although I'm no scientist I've got a pretty good idea how this all works.. I have to or I would be a complete mental mess. This knowledge has led me, finally, to being able to live with and manage my ADHD, depression and anxiety - without a shitload of drugs.

 

I'm haven't given you a 'general' response - I'm giving you a factual response - you just don't like it. You don't comprehend it, either…and from what you've said I can see it's because you have a preconceived notion of how it works. You will not let go of your pet theories to take in the information given. It's much more complicated than any one simple concept will cover… but ya, it basically boils down to a combination of nature, nurture and will.

 

In a nutshell; DNA is the underlying building block/template for cell structure, organization and functions, our bodies are perception receivers and the brain is the interpreter of those perceptions. So.. at this incredibly simplified level… genes don't have much to do with your daily life choices - but more with HOW your body processes that experience.  Not how your brain interprets it so much - that's far more the realm of psychology. 

 

There's no way I can see to dumb it down any farther. 

[Guest end3]

"My question is, what makes the brain chemistry voluntary rather than involuntary. I expect this is a much easier way to express my thoughts....the very long way around."

 

​Brain chemistry isn't voluntary… THINKING is voluntary, your brain takes those thought and INVOLUNTARILY makes the chemicals and signals that correspond with those thoughts (memories, pathways, etc…)

 

I am ADHD (without the H) my brain CHEMISTRY and neurotransmitters function differently from many peoples. They can now see this on an MRI. It's genetic…it tends to run in families. I'm also hyper-sensitive and prone to depression and anxiety… that too is probably a genetic predisposition. I have challenges because of these traits.. people with ADHD tend to be impulsive - i.e.: we don't have the *brakes* regular people do between an urge and an action… I have to CONSCIOUSLY work hard to align my actions with my true values - because sometimes my brain doesn't work well and it wants to do, or say, something RIGHT NOW DAMMIT!. If anyone has foot in mouth disease it's us ADDer's…. It COULD be suggested, because of this lack of impulse control (which is a role of the higher brain - executive function, or the judgement area of the brain) that people with ADHD would be more likely to be immoral - or more likely to 'break the rules'… and this can happen - BUT!  It doesn't have to, because we have the ability, as humans, to override our brain chemistry and act against our impulses. Most of us do… and there are many very good and successful people with ADHD. Richard Branson of Virgin is just one.

 

​I know a bit about psychology and biology because I had this struggle my entire life, and was undiagnosed - didn't have a clue why I was having such a hard time doing what most people have no problems with - mainly life in general. I sought for many years for the problem and solutions… learning a lot along the way about how the human body and brain work. Although I'm no scientist I've got a pretty good idea how this all works.. I have to or I would be a complete mental mess. This knowledge has led me, finally, to being able to live with and manage my ADHD, depression and anxiety - without a shitload of drugs.

 

I'm haven't given you a 'general' response - I'm giving you a factual response - you just don't like it. You don't comprehend it, either…and from what you've said I can see it's because you have a preconceived notion of how it works. You will not let go of your pet theories to take in the information given. It's much more complicated than any one simple concept will cover… but ya, it basically boils down to a combination of nature, nurture and will.

 

In a nutshell; DNA is the underlying building block/template for cell structure, organization and functions, our bodies are perception receivers and the brain is the interpreter of those perceptions. So.. at this incredibly simplified level… genes don't have much to do with your daily life choices - but more with HOW your body processes that experience.  Not how your brain interprets it so much - that's far more the realm of psychology. 

 

There's no way I can see to dumb it down any farther.

I don't think it's that cut and dry. Conscious thought vs. subconscious come to mind. Sleep paralysis....our minds are active and our body isn't. You raise good points that seem reasonable. Thanks.

[Guest end3]

R, you mention "will". So what does will look like in the brain. A new pathway? A new set of reactions? A contaminant in my water? I'm not trying to be argumentative. And then what happens when this water contaminant changes my genetic makeup?

 

Why would our "true values" be anything different than our physical history? Why would there be a need to work outside, or strive for anything that is not consistent with our physical history?

 

Perhaps we need to change our physical history to match social norms for survival? Again, just thinking out loud.

[RogueScholar]

End, have you studied genetics and do you understand the pathophysiology of cell damage? It's quite interesting actually. [Edit: being serious, no sarcasm intended] When cells take on damage, including damage to the DNA, three typical things occur. The cell "recognises" it is doomed and complex pathways lead to apoptosis (programmed death), the cell dies and undergoes necrosis or the cell can repair the damage. In the case of DNA, the extent of the damage determines the cells ability to repair. Point mutations to DNA may be repaired while extensive damage may signal apoptosis.

 

You would have to identify the toxin in the water if you want a more detailed discussion. In general toxins tend to be electrophilic (electron loving) and attack nucleophilic (nucleus loving) atoms and functional groups. Lone pairs of electrons and thiol (SH-R groups) are common targets of this attack. Unfortunately, DNA, RNA and proteins happen to contain many nucleophilic targets due to the many SH groups in amino acids such as cystine (cystine residues actually) and many Nitrogens that have lone pairs of electrons.

 

This can lead to a fourth thing occurring. The mutated DNA may prevent the cell from doing it's normal job; Even worse would be if the cell quit doing it's job and started to divide unchecked as this is the basis of cancer development. It gets worse if certain genes such as the tumour suppressor types are taken out and special genes known as proto-oncogenes are altered and turned into oncogenes.

[mymistake]

 

"My question is, what makes the brain chemistry voluntary rather than involuntary. I expect this is a much easier way to express my thoughts....the very long way around."

 

​Brain chemistry isn't voluntary… THINKING is voluntary, your brain takes those thought and INVOLUNTARILY makes the chemicals and signals that correspond with those thoughts (memories, pathways, etc…)

 

I am ADHD (without the H) my brain CHEMISTRY and neurotransmitters function differently from many peoples. They can now see this on an MRI. It's genetic…it tends to run in families. I'm also hyper-sensitive and prone to depression and anxiety… that too is probably a genetic predisposition. I have challenges because of these traits.. people with ADHD tend to be impulsive - i.e.: we don't have the *brakes* regular people do between an urge and an action… I have to CONSCIOUSLY work hard to align my actions with my true values - because sometimes my brain doesn't work well and it wants to do, or say, something RIGHT NOW DAMMIT!. If anyone has foot in mouth disease it's us ADDer's…. It COULD be suggested, because of this lack of impulse control (which is a role of the higher brain - executive function, or the judgement area of the brain) that people with ADHD would be more likely to be immoral - or more likely to 'break the rules'… and this can happen - BUT!  It doesn't have to, because we have the ability, as humans, to override our brain chemistry and act against our impulses. Most of us do… and there are many very good and successful people with ADHD. Richard Branson of Virgin is just one.

 

​I know a bit about psychology and biology because I had this struggle my entire life, and was undiagnosed - didn't have a clue why I was having such a hard time doing what most people have no problems with - mainly life in general. I sought for many years for the problem and solutions… learning a lot along the way about how the human body and brain work. Although I'm no scientist I've got a pretty good idea how this all works.. I have to or I would be a complete mental mess. This knowledge has led me, finally, to being able to live with and manage my ADHD, depression and anxiety - without a shitload of drugs.

 

I'm haven't given you a 'general' response - I'm giving you a factual response - you just don't like it. You don't comprehend it, either…and from what you've said I can see it's because you have a preconceived notion of how it works. You will not let go of your pet theories to take in the information given. It's much more complicated than any one simple concept will cover… but ya, it basically boils down to a combination of nature, nurture and will.

 

In a nutshell; DNA is the underlying building block/template for cell structure, organization and functions, our bodies are perception receivers and the brain is the interpreter of those perceptions. So.. at this incredibly simplified level… genes don't have much to do with your daily life choices - but more with HOW your body processes that experience.  Not how your brain interprets it so much - that's far more the realm of psychology. 

 

There's no way I can see to dumb it down any farther.

I don't think it's that cut and dry. 

 

 

What the heck?  Based on what?  Your ignorance is what allows you to question science?  This is what I am talking about End.  You look at science and declare it wrong.  What the heck?

 

 

 

 

Conscious thought vs. subconscious come to mind. Sleep paralysis....our minds are active and our body isn't. You raise good points that seem reasonable. Thanks.

 

   On a chemical level your body is always active.  The cells are always doing something unless they die.

[Ravenstar]

It's interesting that you mention sleep paralysis, which is the body's way of inhibiting movement during sleep - so we don't harm ourselves. This is apparently because we are never truly 'off', the body and brain are always doing lots and lots of stuff.

 

We are much more active neurologically than physically.. the brain is forever making connections (awake and asleep - since it controls all other processes it has to be 'on' all the time), comparing memories with perceptions, forming thoughts and trying to make sense of the environment, INCLUDING one's inner world (we have an inner 'map' of what we think the world is like, a matrix if you will) that is the template that the brain works from to make sense of things… this is mainly formed by the time we are 6 or 7 years old (which is why indoctrination is so insidious) - but continues to be amended, especially during puberty and kind of drops off from there - which is why it's harder for older people to change ingrained habits, but not impossible since the brain is very plastic. (a study of some personality disorders is quite informative on this process - it's interesting that the only thing that seems to help those with personality disorders is DBT - which is based on mindfulness training and changing thought patterns)

 

One thing I think a lot of people are unaware of is that the brain is unable to tell the difference between it's physical experiences and imagination. This is well expressed in phobias - and anxiety. If we think we are in danger, even on a subconscious level, - the brain will trigger all the physiological responses to that 'threat' - whether it is real or not. If we have a deep-seated belief that we NEED someone for our survival (a love interest maybe) then if we imagine they may leave us the brain will create the same response it would to an real and imminent risk of death or injury, along with the emotional responses…(emotions are basically transient energetic and chemical responses to either pleasure or pain - related to our survival needs, on a basic level, providing us with the motivation and energy to action…)

 

It's not just our physical history we work from but our inner map - the way we have interpreted our experiences that filters all of our present perceptions and interpretations. This is where critical thinking comes in… without it we are subject to interpretation filters that can keep us from being actually free to change our minds about almost anything… and we are creatures of habit, a survival strategy that can backfire in the modern world. However… the main human strength is our adaptability.    We are probably one of the most adaptable creatures on earth.

[FarflungWanderer]

Good points to this thread: I'm gonna come back and copy-paste all the science into a word document so I can learn something I didn't know.

 

Bad points to this thread: End3, do you really think your actions are Christlike? Swearing, insulting, prejudicial statements... Say what you will about the last two, but you know the first one doesn't fly. Jesus speaks about someone calling their brother "Raca" is in danger of hell, yet you go around calling FTNZ a bitch?

 

You are free to say what you want, I can't stop you. But you should look at yourself and wonder if you have that moral high ground you think you have. From my perspective, you're on the ground like everyone else.

 

Maybe a bit lower.

[Guest end3]

So what is the result when two people with heritable epigenetic mutations produce a baby.

[mymistake]

So what is the result when two people with heritable epigenetic mutations produce a baby.

 

 

God gets an orgasim when he gets to smite an innocent baby with a genetic disease.

[Guest end3]

 

So what is the result when two people with heritable epigenetic mutations produce a baby.

 

 

God gets an orgasim when he gets to smite an innocent baby with a genetic disease.

 

Good point. You make a case for a fallen world and needed grace. Thanks.