Justin Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Christians who reject evolution, namely macro evolution, I want to ask a question. Many branches of Christianity have no problem with micro evolution. They accept this and call It adaptation and use it to help prop up their diversification of species after the biblical flood. They say an animal can change but not one species to another. Let's take snakes for example, because I love snakes. They say that there were only two snakes on the ark and they diversified into the thousands we have now. But let's look more closely at this. We have snakes that are 30 feet long, some that are thread sized and shorter than your hand. We have sea snakes that have a paddle instead of a tail, snakes with venom, snakes with heat sensitive pits, snakes with hollow fangs, some with rear fangs. We also have snakes that have horny projections above their eyes and some on their nose. Some snakes can puff out their necks and some snakes have rattles on their tails. Point is there are hundreds of huge differences between many snake species. Christians, is it to much a stretch in your imaginations to see that in your own view of things, that from two snakes we now have thousands of species, many night and day different from the others, how macro evolution works? Can't you see how a new species can evolve? You ask how can a dog develope fins? Well how can a snake develope a fin Instead of a tail? You ask how can a lizard grow feathers? Well how can a snake develope venom and hollow fangs? You ask how a bird can come from a reptile? Well how can a snake develope a rattle on its tail? True these are all still snakes but can you honestly not see how if you can get a fin or venom or rattle you can also get a feather, a scale or legs were there were none or no legs were there were once some? In your world view this has had to have happened to snakes in the last four or five thousand years. Now just imagine what can happen in four or five hundred million years. Think about it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Great question Justin. There's another issue with the whole macro vs micro evolution thing. Let's say the creationists are right. The giant boat incident is supposed to have occurred, what, 4000 years ago? 5000? Let's say 6000 years ago. So 6000 years ago there were 2 snakes, both presumably of the same species. Now we have roughly 3000 species of snake. That's a new species every two years. This. Is. Way. Too. Fast. Evolution does not work that quickly. Period. If it did, we'd be noticing much more drastic changes all the time. Evolution, whether micro or macro cannot be used to support a creationist worldview. It's one or the other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongWayAround Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 And what about vestigial legs on Pythons and Boa Constrictors; what are they doing there? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 And what about vestigial legs on Pythons and Boa Constrictors; what are they doing there? Come on man. Don't you know that snakes in Eden had legs until God cursed them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Usually the people who bring up the macro/micro issue are Christian apologists. Really the only difference is time. If you look at evolution in the short term you can see what happens in one generation. Some species have generations is very short time. However there is no mechanism that prevents evolution from continuing in every generation all through time. I've seen Christian apologists who deny macro evolution but there is no magic that stops evolution on large scales. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Usually the people who bring up the macro/micro issue are Christian apologists. Really the only difference is time. If you look at evolution in the short term you can see what happens in one generation. Some species have generations is very short time. However there is no mechanism that prevents evolution from continuing in every generation all through time. I've seen Christian apologists who deny macro evolution but there is no magic that stops evolution on large scales. This is true. The only difference is time. Given enough time, small changes can add up to big changes. This doesn't take much intelligence to see. But since creationists only believe in about 6-10 thousand years of geological history, they are closed to the idea of macroevolution. What it really boils down to is a lack of understanding, and wishful thinking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Here's an actual dialogue I had with a Creationist recently on another forum concerning macroevolution: ME: What is the biological process or mechanism that stops microevolution from continuing over time to become macroevolution? HIM: The added new DNA coding. Like working with legos the blocks are fixed but you can change the build. The DNA in another kind would have a different block and a different build. We can see many kinds of dogs yet we never observed any "kind" changing to another. With bacteria, no matter what evolves, we still end up with bacteria. ME: Please identify this "added new DNA coding" or "different blocks" (your words) which is responsible for the biological process or mechanism which limits microevolution from becoming macroevlution over time. A few questions: 1) On which chromosome is this "added new DNA coding" located in humans? In dogs? 2) Is this "added new DNA coding" the same for each species, family or genus? 3) How does this "this added new DNA coding" in each single organism keep tract of changes in allele frequencies within a population of organisms (say thousands of organisms) to make sure there's not too much microevolution within the population? Does it count them? Does it inspect all the other genes to determine whether they have mutated with each generation? How does this "added new DNA coding" do this? 4) If "this added new DNA coding" does do all these things above, how does it thereafter stop mutation, natural selection, genetic drift and horizontal gene transfer from occurring? He never responded to my last questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 Yeah this debate is really a non issue and ridiculous on so many levels. I just wanted to address this concept because it's something I've wondered about for some time. Christians will accept micro evolution in their silly 5,000 year old time frame but fail to see the macro evolutionary change that would surely have had to occur in the same said silly time. I thought about putting this in the science vs religion forum but since more Christians frequent this forum I figured I'd put it in here. I'm really wanting to hear a Christian try and explain all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongWayAround Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 And what about vestigial legs on Pythons and Boa Constrictors; what are they doing there? Come on man. Don't you know that snakes in Eden had legs until God cursed them? You would think the perfect, omnipotent, creator of the universe would have done a proper job of removing their legs rather than doing it in a half-assed manner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Yeah this debate is really a non issue and ridiculous on so many levels. I just wanted to address this concept because it's something I've wondered about for some time. Christians will accept micro evolution in their silly 5,000 year old time frame but fail to see the macro evolutionary change that would surely have had to occur in the same said silly time. I thought about putting this in the science vs religion forum but since more Christians frequent this forum I figured I'd put it in here. I'm really wanting to hear a Christian try and explain all this. They can't support their claim, at least I've never seen a Creationist (regardless of religion) provide any rational explanation as to why macroevolution does not occur. It's just another of their mere assertions. I believe their source for the claim is the "kinds" issue from the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 And what about vestigial legs on Pythons and Boa Constrictors; what are they doing there? Come on man. Don't you know that snakes in Eden had legs until God cursed them? You would think the perfect, omnipotent, creator of the universe would have done a proper job of removing their legs rather than doing it in a half-assed manner. One would assume. But then again, His ways are not ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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