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Goodbye Jesus

'scientific Miracles' Of The Quran


StarGazer

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I have a Muslim convert friend and whenever a religious debate comes up, he seems pretty keen on pushing the idea that the Quran is scientifically accurate.

Obviously, I don't buy this. But I was just wondering, when any of you were out of Christianity, did you consider Islam for this reason? 

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Why trade one oppressive, patriarchal, Middle Eastern religion for another? 

 

Aloha Snackbar! 

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All of the these supposed 'miracles' have been thoroughly debunked. Every example the give was either 1) known long before the Quran came about,

2) does not mean what the apologist is trying to get it to mean, 3) is scientifically inaccurate. There are thorough refutations of these 'miracles' on the following youtube channels:

 

therationalizer

captaindisguise

stopspamming1

 

Also, wikiislam.net has many good refutations of them.

 

I looked at Islam because I realized the inherent problems in the incarnation, blood atonement, the trinity, and Biblical accuracy. Islam keeps it very simple and as a result, comes out far more internally consistent than Christianity. However, it also faces huge problems. Muslims can not move the goalposts as much when it comes to their holy book. It is literally supposed to be the unchanged Word of God. You can't blame its many absurdities and historical and scientific inaccuracies on human error. Also, it literally boils down to: some guy claimed God was talking to him. That's it. No evidence given to distinguish him from the literally hundreds of thousands of people throughout history that have claimed God or gods were communicating with them while all contradicting eachother.

 

Also, the Quran is way too concerned with giving Muhammad special privileges, keeping his wives in line, and his followers in complete obedience to him. Oh yeah and its well established in Islamic sources that he married a six year old girl when he was in his fifties. Disgusting.

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On the topic of his marriage to Aisha, many Muslims refute this by saying 'Oh it was a different time then'.

 

Is it just me or does this argument fall flat when you consider that he's supposed to be an example for all of mankind?

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That and the fact that apparently Allah was in his ear about such trivialities as people staying at his house to long after meals (see sura 33) that maybe God could have bothered to say "hey, maybe it isn't such a good/healthy thing to marry such a young girl." Afterall, beyond the obvious grossness of the whole thing, such young girls are simply not ready for sexual activity. In the Islamic world, child marriages are justified by the prophet's actions and some of these girls who become pregnant as a result die in childbirth. At best, the Islamic God passively approved of the marriage.

 

It is a strange thing that many so-called 'prophets' and holy men (aka Joseph Smith, Sai Baba) seem to sexual preferences for children or young teenagers. I guess it comes with the eccentricity of claiming you are God's chosen mouthpiece.

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Hello Stargazer,

 

No, I've never considered Islam.

 

But I have spent some time and effort refuting some of these "scientific" miracles when debating with this ex-member... http://www.ex-christian.net/user/6724-eemaan/#.VQyOJI6sUul 

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These websites are very popular with Muslims and it's quite likely your friend is familiar with them.

 

http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_index.html

 

http://www.islamreligion.com/category/34/

 

http://www.islam-guide.com/

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I suppose it all depends on how you want to proceed with your friend, SG.

Do you want to confront him with the facts and show him how he's being lied to...?

Like this... http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_106.html

 

nebula.jpg

 

Which is a color-coded image of the Cat's Eye nebula, not a natural color image of it.

 

The Wikipedia page on this nebula... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Eye_Nebula ...shows it color-coded by scientists and if you do a Google Image search for 'Cat's Eye Nebula', that'll turn up lots of different-colored renderings.  So you can see what kind of trick is being pulled here, can't you?  Yep!  Whoever put together these sites selected an image color-coded red to fit in with the Quran verse they quote.

 

When the Heaven shall be cleft asunder, and become rose red, like stained leather. (Surat ar-Rahman, 37) 

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Or would you prefer him to discover these deceptions for himself, by doing some research?

 

If so, show him this page... http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_25.html ...and point out this diagram... 

 

part1_10_02.jpg

 

...and ask him to check the vertical scale (0 to 70 miles in depth) versus the horizontal scale (the British Isles to the Caucasus mountains).  The distance in miles from the city of London to the city of Tbilisi (in the Caucasus) is 2,203 miles.  So the vertical scale of this diagram has been exaggerated by a factor of 31.4.

 

According to the Quranic miracles website...

 

Formerly, it was thought that mountains were merely protrusions rising above the surface of the Earth. However, scientists realised that this was not actually the case, and that those parts known as the mountain root extended down as far as 10-15 times their own height. With these features, mountains play a similar role to a nail or peg firmly holding down a tent. For example, Mount Everest, the summit of which stands approximately 9 km above the surface of the Earth, has a root deeper than 125 km.24

 

Yes, these mountain roots certainly look like pegs or nails - which seems to confirm what the Quran is saying.

 

But only if you leave the horizontal scale off the diagram and squash the vertical scale by a factor of thirty + !

 

This other diagram says what...?

 

part1_10_01.jpg

 

"Horizontal distance not to scale"

 

So how is presenting images that are horizontally distorted, telling the truth?

 

Not so much 'scientific miracles' as trying to hook the gullible with disinformation, wouldn't you say?

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Anyway SG, it's your call as to how you want to do this.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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you can't disprove miracles any more than you can disprove something that somebody imagined or fabricated,  possibly a couple hundred years after the fact concerning the new testament, and who knows concerning the old testament. At least the actual life and times of Mohamed were documented during his lifetime.

 

Yeah,

 

-- the transformation of water into wine at the Marriage at Cana -- one of my favorites of the new testament, Hopefully thousands of gallons smile.png

 

-- in the Quran alcoholic spirits are forbidden. After death spirits are permitted, great  smile.png

 

 

As to miracles, the Quran has mostly the miracles of the old testament, similar to all the Abrahamic religions, from what I have read.

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It's quite interesting that the 'Scientific Miracles' are only understood once the discovery has been made. So did the Muslims just not get what the verses meant at all before?..

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I would never consider Islam.  Don't care how they cherry pick "science miracles".  Even if a few did exist that would not prove that their imaginary friend was real.

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Might point him to The Masked Arab, came across his channel not too long ago, pretty interesting.

 

I've come to the conclusion that Islam is more inline with Yahweh and the old testament than Christianity is, in fact I'd go so far as to say if Yahweh is real then Islam would be the correct religion. But I've never considered converting, Islam is revolting to me, even more so than Christianity could ever be. At least with Christianity you can get away with going hyper liberal with the doctrine.

 

Though I am a blasphemous materialistic heathen, maybe that has something to do with it.

 

Scientific miracles in the Quran? Analysis of Zakir Naik's claims
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It's quite interesting that the 'Scientific Miracles' are only understood once the discovery has been made. So did the Muslims just not get what the verses meant at all before?..

 

SG,

 

My personal opinion is, No.

 

No, the Muslims didn't get the 'scientific' meanings of those Quran verses any more than the Christians 'got' similar meanings from the Bible.  Instead, what's happening in both cases is that unscrupulous zealots who are very familiar with their own sacred texts are looking for scientific discoveries that they can match up with certain verse and passages from their respective holy books..

 

Then, once they've found something in the Quran or Bible that appears to predict a scientific discovery, they claim that it's a prediction and therefore, the Quran or the Bible must be true and must be the word of God.

 

In fact, what they're actually doing SG, is not highlighting an ancient pre-diction, but making a modern post-diction, falsely forcing the text and the science to line up as closely as possible, so that they can catch the gullible and the unwary and convert them into true believers.

 

It's a scam.  And not a particularly clever one at that.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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On the topic of his marriage to Aisha, many Muslims refute this by saying 'Oh it was a different time then'.

 

Is it just me or does this argument fall flat when you consider that he's supposed to be an example for all of mankind?

This applies to all religions. When I ask christians about the old testament, they say it was a different time. Then I ask "why didnt god correct them and show them how to be good, moral people? After all he is the moral authority is he not?" Usually no response or "god doesnt have to explain himself. God did not create us in his image. We created him in ours and he is constantly evolving to stay relevant.

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     After I was done with xianity I briefly (a course of weeks) considered a number of other religions but none of them on scientific principles.  I was trying to hold onto something I had lost and it wasn't science.

 

          mwc

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But none of them were appealing to you?

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     Appealing to me?  Not really, no.

 

     Where's the appeal of trading one silent god for the next?  Or trading one authoritative group for another?  Or one camp's philosophy for yet another's philosophy?

 

          mwc

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