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Goodbye Jesus

God Doesn't Prevent Terrible Things Because:


FreeThinkerNZ

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I'd love to hear any xian responses to this.

 

I suspect they might answer B, which begs the question "Is biblegod loving and just?".  

 

Answers including the words "mysterious" or "higher" will be disregarded.

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Hey FTNZ!  

 

What about option E..?  

 

 

E) God lets terrible things happen because Adam and Eve sinned.

 

 

(Assuming you want to ignore this option's circular appeal to scripture..?)  

 

(And assuming you want to ignore the fact that God entrapped Adam and Eve..?)

 

(And assuming you want to ignore the fact that Adam and Eve were incapable of making a free choice..?)

 

(And assuming you want to ignore that fact that that science rules out the possibility of the human race descending from just one man and one woman..?) 

 

 

 

wink.png

  

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Hehe, thank you for debunking Option E before it got off the ground :)

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Maybe a Christian will respond and try and un-debunk Option E...?

 

GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif

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F:  Because homosexuality.

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I often hear "It's part of God's prefect plan".  Is that considered B or C?  I'm thinking perfect plan counts as C.

 

Now I also hear "because somebody else made a choice and God won't violate human freewill".  I think that answer counts as B.

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Epicurus dealt with this.

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

― Epicurus

 

He was a very wise man.

http://mobile.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/epicurus.html

http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/114041.Epicurus

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God doesn't prevent horrible things because humanity told and tells God to shove it.....so humans must learn via the University of Hard Knocks.

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God doesn't prevent horrible things because humanity told and tells God to shove it.....so humans must learn via the University of Hard Knocks.

Exactly, we should follow god's commands. *leaves to spread blood on the walls to cleanse my home of ebola*

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oh, and abhorrent women and homosexuality of course.

 

I'm here as an antagonist of course....carry on.

Yes. God will judge america for homosexuality. Makes you wonder what africa did to deserve its situation. They mustve been raping babies to cure aids because condoms actually transmit aids as stated by some big catholic nutjob
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God doesn't prevent horrible things because humanity told and tells God to shove it.....so humans must learn via the University of Hard Knocks.

 

end, I assume you are just being frustratingly argumentitive.  But if you would care to be serious for a moment, I assume you (and many of your Christian friends) have not told God to shove it, right?  And, I also assume you and some of your Christian friends have had pretty bad things happen to them.  So how do you reconcile what you said to your life and the lives of your Christian friends?  Or is it that if just one human tells God to shove it, are the rest of us doomed from God intervening?  Or is there another explanation as to why God doesn't help the people who don't tell God to shove it?

 

Also, I've never told God to shove it (or anything like that).  Now, I no longer believe a God exists, and I would imagine that your opinion would be that simply because I don't have have belief in a God (or your God) that my lack of belief is the same thing as telling God to shove it, and that is simply not true, but that is for another discussion.

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God doesn't prevent horrible things because humanity told and tells God to shove it.....so humans must learn via the University of Hard Knocks.

 

end, I assume you are just being frustratingly argumentitive.  But if you would care to be serious for a moment, I assume you (and many of your Christian friends) have not told God to shove it, right?  And, I also assume you and some of your Christian friends have had pretty bad things happen to them.  So how do you reconcile what you said to your life and the lives of your Christian friends?  Or is it that if just one human tells God to shove it, are the rest of us doomed from God intervening?  Or is there another explanation as to why God doesn't help the people who don't tell God to shove it?

 

Also, I've never told God to shove it (or anything like that).  Now, I no longer believe a God exists, and I would imagine that your opinion would be that simply because I don't have have belief in a God (or your God) that my lack of belief is the same thing as telling God to shove it, and that is simply not true, but that is for another discussion.

 

 

God doesn't prevent horrible things because humanity told and tells God to shove it.....so humans must learn via the University of Hard Knocks.

 

end, I assume you are just being frustratingly argumentitive.  But if you would care to be serious for a moment, I assume you (and many of your Christian friends) have not told God to shove it, right?  And, I also assume you and some of your Christian friends have had pretty bad things happen to them.  So how do you reconcile what you said to your life and the lives of your Christian friends?  Or is it that if just one human tells God to shove it, are the rest of us doomed from God intervening?  Or is there another explanation as to why God doesn't help the people who don't tell God to shove it?

 

Also, I've never told God to shove it (or anything like that).  Now, I no longer believe a God exists, and I would imagine that your opinion would be that simply because I don't have have belief in a God (or your God) that my lack of belief is the same thing as telling God to shove it, and that is simply not true, but that is for another discussion.

 

Read a verse yesterday that kind of sums it up....

 

1Pe 2:5

 

you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house [fn] to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

 

And to put it simply, I think we all come to this maturity by some path....maybe some don't. I think the silence by Christ right now is ultimately perfect grace. In other words, if a child won't accept instruction, there's really not much you can do other than love them and let them learn on there own.

 

And for me, the path is a specific theology... I don't really believe that there are other paths. That's just me specifically......But it's hard to ignore the language of other religions.

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Of course "by learn on their own" you mean invent lots of horrible diseases and bacteria to help them "learn on their own"

 

remind me again how someone eating an apple invents polio, tasmanian devil facial tumor disease and rabies. All horrible disease that have no other function than to cause suffering. one of them is even animal exclusive

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Of course "by learn on their own" you mean invent lots of horrible diseases and bacteria to help them "learn on their own"

 

remind me again how someone eating an apple invents polio, tasmanian devil facial tumor disease and rabies. All horrible disease that have no other function than to cause suffering. one of them is even animal exclusive

S, I don't know what an "unfallen world" is. Right now, in a "fallen world" as the story goes, I gather there are combinations that yield life and combinations that yield death. We could visit the story of Adam and Eve.....for the umpteenth time and see what we could surmise....but other than that, we are all here now and I whine too, but there are days when whining just gets old.

 

Ultimately and regardless of the story, don't most of us attempt to move towards being better people? You can find faults with my belief, I can yours. We can others? Should we say something or say nothing?

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Of course "by learn on their own" you mean invent lots of horrible diseases and bacteria to help them "learn on their own"

 

remind me again how someone eating an apple invents polio, tasmanian devil facial tumor disease and rabies. All horrible disease that have no other function than to cause suffering. one of them is even animal exclusive

S, I don't know what an "unfallen world" is. Right now, in a "fallen world" as the story goes, I gather there are combinations that yield life and combinations that yield death. We could visit the story of Adam and Eve.....for the umpteenth time and see what we could surmise....but other than that, we are all here now and I whine too, but there are days when whining just gets old.

 

Ultimately and regardless of the story, don't most of us attempt to move towards being better people? You can find faults with my belief, I can yours. We can others? Should we say something or say nothing?

Because christianity was so damging to my life, I will atrack it every chance I get and help ensure others dont have endure that little hell on earth which is being raised a fundamentalist christian :)

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because human brought on sufferings by themselves,,,,,,

 

because free will,,,,,

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Of course "by learn on their own" you mean invent lots of horrible diseases and bacteria to help them "learn on their own"

 

remind me again how someone eating an apple invents polio, tasmanian devil facial tumor disease and rabies. All horrible disease that have no other function than to cause suffering. one of them is even animal exclusive

S, I don't know what an "unfallen world" is. Right now, in a "fallen world" as the story goes, I gather there are combinations that yield life and combinations that yield death. We could visit the story of Adam and Eve.....for the umpteenth time and see what we could surmise....but other than that, we are all here now and I whine too, but there are days when whining just gets old.

 

Ultimately and regardless of the story, don't most of us attempt to move towards being better people? You can find faults with my belief, I can yours. We can others? Should we say something or say nothing?

 

Because christianity was so damging to my life, I will atrack it every chance I get and help ensure others dont have endure that little hell on earth which is being raised a fundamentalist christian smile.png

 

Well, I can believe that. I hope some day it passes in a good way.

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"And for me, the path is a specific theology... I don't really believe that there are other paths. That's just me specifically......But it's hard to ignore the language of other religions."

 

 

end, your response seems a little confusing.  I have no idea what you are talking about in your last sentence (other paths, specific theology, language of other religions), but going back to the verse in Peter, you are basically saying that bad things happen to us because they build us up in someway?  Maybe you think they give us character and make us more holy or refine us somehow?  At least, that is what I am guessing you are trying to say.

 

I don't think we will get anywhere discussing that concept, so I'll probably leave it alone.  But I will say that it is interesting how God does intervene in certain things in the Bible (a wedding needed more wine, so Jesus performed a miracle), yet someone's daughter gets killed by a drunk driver and God won't intervene with that.  Maybe the bridal party would not have had their character refined if they ran out of wine so God decided, "what the heck, let's make more wine for them", but the parents of the killed daughter somehow need more refining and so God doesn't intervene.  I suppose you don't see the twisted reasoning in this argument, and I know you probably will have an excuse for God, but it certainly doesn't sit well with me.

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Of course "by learn on their own" you mean invent lots of horrible diseases and bacteria to help them "learn on their own"

 

remind me again how someone eating an apple invents polio, tasmanian devil facial tumor disease and rabies. All horrible disease that have no other function than to cause suffering. one of them is even animal exclusive

S, I don't know what an "unfallen world" is. Right now, in a "fallen world" as the story goes, I gather there are combinations that yield life and combinations that yield death. We could visit the story of Adam and Eve.....for the umpteenth time and see what we could surmise....but other than that, we are all here now and I whine too, but there are days when whining just gets old.

 

Ultimately and regardless of the story, don't most of us attempt to move towards being better people? You can find faults with my belief, I can yours. We can others? Should we say something or say nothing?

 

 

The most fundamental fault in the Christian belief system is a reliance on the story of Adam and Eve to explain the suffering we see.  So if you're going to say something End, then why not say..."I'll address that fault by answering the four points raised in # 2" ..?

 

Or, if you're just going to believe that Genesis explains suffering, despite these four points - then say nothing and just keep on believing... regardless.

 

I can't force you to face up to the contradictions and flaws in your beliefs.

 

But you can address them, rather than saying nothing and just blindly believing they don't exist.

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Guest Furball

 

S, I don't know what an "unfallen world" is. Right now, in a "fallen world" as the story goes, I gather there are combinations that yield life and combinations that yield death. 

 

It would have never been a fallen world if god never put the tree there in the first place. Think about it. Oh wait you can't think, you let an ancient book written by a back mountain desert tribe tell you what to think.

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Guest Furball

God doesn't prevent horrible things because humanity told and tells God to shove it.....so humans must learn via the University of Hard Knocks.

So much for the doctrine of grace (unmerited favor). So tell me einstein, what did this poor person in the picture below do to god to make him bring this horrible situation upon him. I doubt all the hungry kids in africa told your god to shove it. So please explain to me how little kids in africa are students in your gods university of hard knocks when they didn't do anything to god. People like you make me want to puke. Your apologetics are laughable at best. So, look at the picture below and tell me end3 what this person did to deserve this!

 

 

 

fam.jpg

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Guest Furball

 

I'm here as an antagonist of course....carry on.

Right, because you have yet to provide any evidence that your god exists and you have not yet provided a single shred of evidence that proves the bible is true as well. So i will give you this one, you're only here as a hypocrite christian antagonist.

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Guest Furball

 

Read a verse yesterday that kind of sums it up....

 

1Pe 2:5

 

you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house [fn] to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

 

And to put it simply, I think we all come to this maturity by some path....maybe some don't. I think the silence by Christ right now is ultimately perfect grace.

 

In other words, if a child won't accept instruction, there's really not much you can do other than love them and let them learn on there own.

 

 

Ok the first part doesn't make any sense to what is being discussed here. 

 

Secondly, why is jesus waiting over 2,000 years when he told his disciples he would be right back? The silence means he doesn't exist, it also proves him a liar. 

 

Thirdly, you are sadly mistaken and don't know your bible. We don't have to accept instruction as god implants it in us, for us, against our will.

 

Let's look at Ezekiel 36

 

Ezekiel 36: 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Notice it has god doing all the work, it has nothing to do with people accepting or denying gods instructions statutes and judgements.

 

Can you atleast keep one command of the scriptures and study to show yourself a workman approved?

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Guest Furball

So what lesson in gods university of hard knocks does a devout christian learn? If he is an obedient devout christian, why is god still giving them "hard knocks" if they are repentant believers??????????/

 

 

 

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