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Goodbye Jesus

Ramtha Decribes The Multiverse


Joshpantera

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Yes, JZ Knight the cult leader who channels the spirit of a 35,000 year old man who came to earth from another planet, and lived in Atlantis for a spell, is teaching the cult (as Ramtha) about how existence works in the multiverse:

 

 

The precession cycle of multiverses? 

 

It's funny because I pretty much know about each issue that she's read in books, then tried to make her own sense of, and then repeats back to her audience as if an ancient knowledgeable spirit is speaking through her. This is a web of New Age information that she's obviously read and repeated. 

 

How is it that these people can't see through the scam?

 

Everything she's talking about is copied from books. Even to the extent that Ramtha is copied from HP Blatasky and the theosophy ideas about ascended masters. 

 

Does no one in the audience understand how exactly she's fabricated this Ramtha character? 

 

At any point does any one involved in this fact check Ramtha's science? 

 

They must not. The BS contiues....

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Hmmnn...They read it in a book, put their own spin on it, tells it to audience as if an ancient knowledgeable spirit is speaking through them.

 

Why does that sound so familiar?   huh.png

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And the audience buys it hook, line, and sinker. 

 

Sounds familiar too. 

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The only 'channelled' entity I could pay attention to was Seth. 'He' actually said some pretty amazing shit…(I read it though) but it's been a while since I've reviewed the work, so must go back and look at it again and reassess.

 

I've seen some of these people who claim they channel… whatever. Serious bunch of lunatics and charlatans. It's sad really, because the New Age crowd, for the most part are very nice people who seem to want to do good shit…and live good lives, they just have to have the woo for some reason.

 

At least they aren't lobbying for their 'channelled wisdom' to be made into law.  :P

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At least they aren't lobbying for their 'channelled wisdom' to be made into law.  tongue.png

 

 

Isn't "channeled wisdom" exactly what the Bible is purported to be? 
 
I like "Seth" as well. If I were to make up stories about How Things Really Are, the Seth view (and Neale Walsch's writings) reflect how I would like it to be and it has an internal logic. Of course, there's no reason to think any such "revealed wisdom" is based in reality. I think all such beliefs are nothing more than someone's idea of how they wish things to be.
 
As far as all this woo wisdom goes, at least Xenu is original.
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Good point about the 'channelled wisdom'...

 

Actually - it's very cool that humans can come up with this stuff… don't know why we have to give gods all the credit  :D

 

Walsch.. read most of it - good stuff. I think I still have the first three books somewhere.. It seemed to me like his philosophy was based on Ram Dass' writings, just a little more down to earth, I could be wrong though.

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The only 'channelled' entity I could pay attention to was Seth. 'He' actually said some pretty amazing shit…(I read it though) but it's been a while since I've reviewed the work, so must go back and look at it again and reassess.

 

I've seen some of these people who claim they channel… whatever. Serious bunch of lunatics and charlatans. It's sad really, because the New Age crowd, for the most part are very nice people who seem to want to do good shit…and live good lives, they just have to have the woo for some reason.

 

At least they aren't lobbying for their 'channelled wisdom' to be made into law.  tongue.png

 

What I find the most disturbing is that they take a lot of descend wisdom teachings and completely butcher it with the woo. I see what she's doing and how consciously it's done. Looking further I found some very telling interviews of a former employee who spilled the beans on it:

 

 

I'll have to look up Seth while I'm investigating this stuff.

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I used to love all this stuff. All I wanted was a piece of hope that this wasn't all there is to life.  A lot of it made great sense and I still think it does to a certain degree. I'm with you guys now - I think it wishful thinking. More and more everyday, I feel I am a true atheist. I have lost all hope in 'something' being there. I wanted desperately for 'something' to be out there in the universe and used to love Ramtha. Now, I think she's a good actress...and a fake.....sad.png

 

Her ex-husband's testimony is very good. I have watched this before. He really clears some things up.

 

I still hold on 1% that there might be 'something', but I am definitely losing hope. I understand when people like to hold on to 'something' because that 'something' gives them hope in a protector and a reason for being here on planet earth. I can still get 'bummed out' that this is all there is.....

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Well here's the thing Margee, I just don't claim to know either way. I 'm like you in feeling that the odds are stacked against it but I just don't know. I'm open to convincing evidence. I've lost the need to want it, though. I'm quite alright with fading away into non-consciousness, material body recycled into the earth and being done forever. That doesn't scare me like it would have while I was Christian. But I think it would be cool to discover that there's something more after all. 

 

What these people are doing actually discredits what could potentially exist beyond death. They are through and through bullshitting their way through it. I looked up Seth. What I found is a carbon copy template that JZ Knight more than likely used to create her "Ramtha" impersonation: 

 

 

Look at the the mannerism's. Listen to the India-style voice impersonation that tells you straight away that they're consciously trying to make this shit up based on pre-existing theosophical ideas about the Ascended Masters of old written about from the 1800's to early 1900's. By just after the next mid century this "business" of channeling spirits who sort of fit the description of Ascended Masters 'from the east' starts popping up. After this Seth act has already been out for a while, JZ Knight then comes along behind it in the late 70's jumping on the bandwagon. Then it seems more have jumped on the bandwagon too like Abraham Hicks and others. 

 

I say finding a place where you're perfectly ok and content with death as the end, is the best place to be. 

 

From there you can speculate about whatever without having a strong emotional bias involved in it and live pretty care free as far as that goes...

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At least they aren't lobbying for their 'channelled wisdom' to be made into law.  tongue.png

 

 

Isn't "channeled wisdom" exactly what the Bible is purported to be? 
 
I like "Seth" as well. If I were to make up stories about How Things Really Are, the Seth view (and Neale Walsch's writings) reflect how I would like it to be and it has an internal logic. Of course, there's no reason to think any such "revealed wisdom" is based in reality. I think all such beliefs are nothing more than someone's idea of how they wish things to be.
 
As far as all this woo wisdom goes, at least Xenu is original.

 

Actually, HP Blavatsky's theosophical influence reached into alien theories as well as Atlantis and Lemuria: http://blavatskytheosophy.com/the-men-from-other-planets/

 

So the seeds of this sort of thing were sown. And it turns out that L Ron Hubbard's influence is a direct descent from Theosophy to Neo-Theosophy to his Xenu myth creation based out of earlier ideas about spirituality around the universe. It's quite interesting to chart the evolution of modern day New Age woo through it's roots and branches. The obsession with trying to reconcile spiritual woo with the science of the day has been hand in hand the entire time. I own a copy of the Secret Doctrine just because some one told me it's a great reconciliation of science and religion. I started reading and immediately went, WTF! 

 

So Seth talking about our "atoms and molecules," and this attempt by Knight to reconcile modern science's theories of a multiverse with alien and Altlantian spirituality is right in line with it's descent from Theosophy through Neo-Theosophy. And it's hardly anything that can even be remotely compared to science if any one would care to fact check their spiritual leaders. I can see how in the 1800's people might have been less informed about science back then. But now, come on!  I just don't get how in the hell people are still signing up for this. Scientology, the channeling, all of it. As mentioned earlier, I guess on the bright side it's not influential enough in politics, but then again with all of the secret society involvement among politicians, Skull and Bones, Bohemian Grove, etc., I'm not sure that this type of woo doesn't already have a subtle influence on political decision making...

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The religiously-obsessed group of people who would go on to become the Seventh Day Adventists were just as gullible and hung on every word of their venerated 'prophet'... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_G._White ...when she experienced visions (via the Holy Spirit, she claimed) of life on other planets.
 
What I find most interesting is that some of her claims have now been totally falsified by modern astronomy. 
 
For instance...
 
"The inhabitants [of Saturn] are a tall, majestic people, so unlike the inhabitants of Earth.  Sin has never entered there."
.
.
.
BS!!!     eviltongue.gif

 

 

 
 
 

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Oh.. I was BIG into the theosophy thing at one time… Mme. Blavatsky had a huge influence on modern spiritual thought. It's amazing what one charismatic person can do.

 

Nandor Fodor, the Hungarian psychologist and parapsychologist published a very extensive encyclopedia on the entire movement and related persons and alleged phenomena in 1934. It's biased but thorough, and has a wealth of information and reference in it. I still have it some where...

 

There are still Spiritualist Churches around…same thing really just 'organized'.

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The religiously-obsessed group of people who would go on to become the Seventh Day Adventists were just as gullible and hung on every word of their venerated 'prophet'... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_G._White ...when she experienced visions (via the Holy Spirit, she claimed) of life on other planets.

 

What I find most interesting is that some of her claims have now been totally falsified by modern astronomy. 

 

For instance...

 

"The inhabitants [of Saturn] are a tall, majestic people, so unlike the inhabitants of Earth.  Sin has never entered there."

.

.

.

BS!!!     eviltongue.gif

 

 

 

 

 

This is the part that gets me the most. JZ Knight is doing precisely now what EG White was doing in the 1800's, only White claimed communication with Angels instead of this new age disembodied spirit thing. Visions instead of channeling as you mention.

 

But the rest of it is nearly identical. Especially the sociopath aspect. White also plagiarized the hell out of existing books of the time as if the information was divinely inspired. All of the medical writings were taken right out of existing books of the time. She would read stuff then have a "vision." I wonder if she read Blavatsky or something to the effect of Blavatsky's sources because they were contemporaries. It seems strange that both Theosophists and Adventists both had the idea that people lived on the nearby planets in our own solar system. Perhaps there was a common source material everyone was pulling from. Science laid waste to it, but there was some type of source material. 

 

Did it come from Smith? 

 

He likely pulled from an earlier source as well. 

 

I wonder where the alien spirituality thing first popped up? 

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Very Interesting discussion. What does anyone think of Edgar Cayce's thousands of predictions. I used to love to dabble in his websites. I have to say he was right on with hundreds of things he said. Do you guys think he was just copying everyone too? 

 

I am going away tonight for a week. I'll be really interested in taking this back up when I get home!! Thanks guys, I love these discussions. kiss.gif

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I only know of Cayce through mystery programs on TV. I'd look at Nostradamas too. They'd usually both get covered together on those types of programs. It's very strange with Cayce because he was under hypnosis. Here's a link for those who may want to check him out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Cayce

 

When out of the trance, Cayce would not remember what he had said during the reading. The unconscious mind, according to Cayce, has access to information that the conscious mind does not—a common assumption about hypnosis in Cayce's time.

 

Coming out of this general time of the early 20th century was Robert Collier's book, "The Secret of the Ages," which is what the "The Secret" revival is based on. I have it in my library. The idea is that there's 3 types of consciousness 1) conscious 2) sub conscious 3) super conscious. The subconscious is alleged to be in communication with super consciousness, or universal mind. And it's through our conscious mind that we affect our sub conscious mind that can communicate with universal consciousness right through the environment. I suppose you can envision each brain sending out waves into the environment. Waves from the environment coming back in. Two way communication happening at all times, more or less subconsciously. 

 

That's the sort of thing that was coming out around the Cayce time frame, behind Theosophy and all that was happening in the 1800's with psychics, mediums, channeling, etc. This is also the sort of thing Houdini had set out confront. But I think Cayce seemed like a good guy who just wanted to help people, whatever the case of his condition. I don't see him as a sociopath like EG White and JZ Knight and the cult leader types. If he was real, I don't know what to attribute it to aside from there actually being a reality to what the sub conscious mind can do, and tap into. 

 

So I wonder what the critics have to say about it? 

 

Controversy[edit]

 

Cayce advocated some controversial and eccentric ideas from his trance readings. In many trance sessions, he reinterpreted the history of life on Earth. One of Cayce's controversial claims was that of polygenism. According to Cayce, five human races (white, black, red, brown and yellow) had been created separately but simultaneously on different parts of the Earth. Cayce also accepted the existence of aliens and Atlantis and claimed that "the red race developed in Atlantis and its development was rapid". Another claim by Cayce was that "soul-entities" on Earth intermingled with animals to produce "things," giants that were as much as twelve feet tall.[28][29]

 

Olav Hammer wrote that many of Cayce's readings discussed race and skin color and that the explanation for this is that Cayce was not a racist but was influenced by the occult ideas of Madame Blavatsky.[30] Robert Todd Carroll, in his book The Skeptic's Dictionary wrote, "Cayce is one of the main people responsible for some of the sillier notions about Atlantis." Carroll mentioned some of Cayce's notions, which included his belief in a giant solar crystal, activated by the sun was used to power energy on Atlantis and his prediction that in 1958 the United States would rediscover a death ray that had been used on Atlantis.[31]

 

 

Well, it seems Blavatsky's influence runs deep. Coming behind her work on esotericism and the occult, and then sub consciously spewing things out seems more likely than tapping into an unknown web of energy and information exchange through his subconscious mind. The Atlantis stuff seems to straight away reveal that he's had some contact with esoteric writings that come back out of his mind while in a trance state. Reincarnation, all of it. However I don't think Cayce bold faced faked his way through it, like White and Knight can pretty much be shown to have done. This stuff just came out while he was hypnotized. What goes in comes back out. 

 


Criticism[edit]

 

Skeptics say that the evidence for Cayce's powers comes from contemporaneous newspaper articles, affidavits, anecdotes, testimonials, and books. Martin Gardner, for example, wrote that while Cayce's trances did happen, most of the information from his trances was derived from books that Cayce had been reading by authors such as Carl JungOuspensky, and Blavatsky. Gardner's hypothesis was that the trance readings of Cayce contain "little bits of information gleaned from here and there in the occult literature, spiced with occasional novelties from Cayce's unconscious".[32]

Skeptics are also critical of Cayce's support for various forms of alternative medicine, which they regard as quackery.[33] Michael Shermer writes in Why People Believe Weird Things, "Uneducated beyond the ninth grade, Cayce acquired his broad knowledge through voracious reading and from this he wove elaborate tales."[34] Shermer wrote that, "Cayce was fantasy-prone from his youth, often talking with angels and receiving visions of his dead grandfather." Shermer further cites James Randi as saying "Cayce was fond of expressions like 'I feel that' and 'perhaps'—qualifying words used to avoid positive declarations." Examination of the readings do not show qualifying terms.

Biblical Christians are critical[35] of Cayce's views on issues such as reincarnation,[36] oneness[37] and the Akashic records.[38]

 

Yeah, it seems that at the end of the day Cayce is most likely to have fallen in rank along with the rest of those who were influenced by Blavatsky. His future predicting apparently wasn't all that good: 

 

Although Cayce seemed to have acquired the ability to correctly diagnose an illness in the individual,[citation needed] he was often incorrect in his predictions of a distant future. He stressed that the future is determined by man's free will and our collective actions shape the destiny of mankind for better or for worse.

 

Here's a link I found to a skeptics view of Cayce that pretty much dives in: http://skepdic.com/cayce.html

I don't enjoy trying to debunk this guy because he doesn't strike me as a major asshole like a lot the others who deserve it. But if he's pretty much fantasy land material then it still needs to be deconstructed all the same:

 

He used this "knowledge" to predict that California will slide into the ocean and that New York City will be destroyed in some sort of cataclysm. He predicted that in 1958 the U.S. would discover some sort of death ray used on Atlantis.Cayce is one of the main people responsible for some of the sillier notions about Atlantis, including the idea that the Atlanteans had some sort of Great Crystal. Cayce called the Great Crystal theTuaoi Stone and said it was a huge cylindrical prism that was used to gather and focus "energy," allowing the Atlanteans to do all kinds of fantastic things. But they got greedy and stupid, tuned up their Crystal to too high a frequency and set off volcanic disturbances that led to the destruction of that ancient world. He made other predictions concerning such things as the Great Depression (that 1933 would be a good year) and the Lindbergh kidnapping (most of it wrong, all of it useless), and that China would be converted to Christianity by 1968...

 

Ouch!!!

 

Even though Cayce didn't have a formal education much beyond grammar school, he was a voracious reader, worked in bookstores, and was especially fond of occult and osteopathic literature.

 

Yeah, I think the simplest explanation seems the most fitting...

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Adding more fuel to the fire...

 

I was in England, staying with friends, when this so-called prophet and "Son of the Godhead"...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke

 

...crucified himself (metaphorically speaking) on a BBC chat show, in front of millions. 

 

As well as the many failed predictions he made in his "Turquoise Period" I remember Icke saying in 91' that Saddam Hussein couldn't possibly be in command of Iraqi forces, because...

 

...he'd already died of a heart attack!

.

.

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So the guy they pulled out of that hole near Tikrit on 12/13/03 must have been Hussein's clone...?

 

And this poor schmuck was tried with Hussein's war crimes, found guilty and duly hanged on 12/30/06...?

 

Oy vey! 

 

Wendytwitch.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Erich von Daniken http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_von_D%C3%A4niken 

 

Zacharia Sitchin:

 

 

And thus enters David Icke into the arena trying to make creative extensions on these guys ideas about ancient aliens. Of course the show "ancient aliens" is founded on the same. JZ Knight decided to claim that reptilian aliens are out to do no good and failed at predicted conflicts, or rather "Ramtha" failed. Where did she get these ideas aside from either Ike or his source material? 

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http://www.unitypublishing.com/prophecy/HildigardSaint.htm

 

Q.

So where did Hildegard of Bingen (1098 - 1179) get her source material from?

 

A.

The Bible, the Apocrypha and many other religious texts that she access to from the age of 8, when she joined the monastery of Disibodenberg.

Also, there were two very bright comets seen in the year 1066 ...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halley%27s_Comet and in 1106 ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X/1106_C1

So she never really steps outside of her historical, cultural and religious frame of reference.  Or does she? 

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.

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Could this sentence be interpreted as a comet crashing into the sea and raising huge tsunamis...?

 

"The Comet by it's tremendous pressure, will force out much of the ocean and flood many countries, causing much want and many plagues."

 

Wendyshrug.gif

 

 

 

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Strange story. Odd times. Yes, looks like a clear case of her imagination running away with Biblical influences. 

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So much of the New Age movement traces to influence from Blavatsky. Never having checked up on Blavatsky's source material I decided to look into it: 

 

http://www.blavatskyarchives.com/colemansources1895.htm

 

In Isis Unveiled, published in 1877, I discovered some 2000 passages copied from other books without proper credit. By careful analysis I found that in compiling Isisabout 100 books were used. About 1400 books are quoted from and referred to in this work; but, from the 100 books which its author possessed, she copied everything inIsis taken from and relating to the other 1300. There are in Isis about 2100 quotations from and references to books that were copied, at second-hand, from books other than the originals; and of this number only about 140 are credited to the books from which Madame Blavatsky copied them at second-hand. The others are quoted in such a manner as to lead the reader to think that Madame Blavatsky had read and utilised the original works, and had quoted from them at first-hand, - the truth being that these originals had evidently never been read by Madame Blavatsky. By this means many readers of Isis, and subsequently those of her Secret Doctrine and Theosophical Glossary, have been misled into thinking Madame Blavatsky an enormous reader, possessed of vast erudition; while the fact is her reading was very limited, and her ignorance was profound in all branches of knowledge.

 

That's what I thought. Just like her contemporary Ellen G. White who also plagiarized other writers. The apologist's will say that the laws were different at the time and that she didn't brake them. Well that's a great way of side stepping the issue that White copied people's books and then claimed that it came from an "Angel" and that she had the "spirit of prophecy." With Blavatsky she claimed spiritual sources two, through the ancient ones. And in the end simply plagiarized other peoples work without citation and called that the Mahatmas.  

 

The Secret Doctrine is ostensibly based upon certain stanzas, claimed to have been translated by Madame Blavatsky from the Book of Dzyan, - the oldest book in the world, written in a language unknown to philology. The Book of Dzyan was the work of Madame Blavatsky, - a compilation, in her own language, from a variety of sources, embracing the general principles of the doctrines and dogmas taught in the Secret Doctrine. I find in this "oldest book in the world" statements copied from nineteenth-century books, and in the usual blundering manner of Madame Blavatsky. Letters and other writings of the adepts are found in the Secret Doctrine. In these Mahatmic productions I have traced various plagiarised passages from Wilson’s Vishnu Purana and Winchell’s World Life, - of like character to those in Madame Blavatsky’s acknowledged writings. Detailed proofs of this will be given in my book. I have also traced the source whence she derived the word Dzyan.

 

The Mahatma's were the ancient teacher's of enlightenment. This fabrication of communicating with the Mahatmas along with it's ties to India and the east is precisely what the impersonations of "Seth" and "Ramtha" are based on. Why is always an Indian accent? Saying things that are common knowledge in Hinduism like everything is consciousness, we create our own realities. It's interesting what some 19th century plagiarized work promoted through deceptive means would inspire over the next century.

 

The doctrines, teachings, dogmas, etc., of theosophy, as published by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, and affirmed to be derived from the quasi-infallible Mahatmas of Thibet, were borrowed from the philosophies and religions of the past and present, with some admixture of modern science. There is nothing original in this "Wisdom of the Gods," or "Wisdom Religion," save the work of compilation into a composite whole of the heterogeneous mass of materials gathered by Madame Blavatsky from so many sources, and the garblings, perversions, and fabrications indulged in by her in the preparation of the system of thought called theosophy. A careful analysis of her teachings shows that they were collected from the sources named below. (1) Madame Blavatsky was a spiritualistic medium many years before she became a theosophist, and in its inception theosophy was an off-shoot from spiritualism; and from this source was a large part of her theosophy taken. I find that its teachings upon some 267 points were copied from those of spiritualism. (2) In its later form, Hinduism constitutes one of the larger portions of theosophy. I have not attempted an exhaustive classification of the numerous minor points taken from this source, but I have noted 281 of the more important. (3) From Buddhism I have noted 63. (4) In the beginnings of theosophy, the basis of most of its teachings was derived from the works of Eliphas Levi, and I count 102 points therefrom borrowed. (5) From Paracelsus’s works were taken 49. (6) From Jacob Bohme, 81. (7) From the Cabbala, 86. (8) From Plato, the Platonists, the Neo-Platonists, and Hermes, 80. (9) From Gnosticism, 61. (10) From modern science and philosophy, 75. (11) From Zoroastrianism, 26. (12) From Kingsford and Maitland’s Perfect Way, 24. (13) From general mythology, 20. (14) From Egyptology, 17. (15) From the Rosicrucians, 16. (16) From other mediaeval and modern mystics, 20. (17) From miscellaneous classical writers, 16. (18) From Assyriology, 14. (19) From Christianity and the Bible, 10. In addition, doctrines and data, in lesser number, have been derived from the following-named sources: The writings of Gerald Massey, John Yarker, Subba Row, Ragon, J. Ralston Skinner, Inman, Keeley, Godfrey Higgins, Jacolliot, Wilford, Oliver, Donnelly, Mackenzie, Bulwer-Lytton, Kenealy, and various others; also from Chinese, Japanese, Phoenician, and Quiche mythologies.

 

Essentially all of the stuff you see these modern New Age channels saying about Jesus and about God "within you," comes directly from Blavatsky who simply pulled this out of eastern and western mysticism and popularized it. Eventually it went past Blavatsky to Indian sources and evolved in that direction. But it's little wonder that these ancient spirits are copied from the Mohatma's of Blavatsky and Indian accents are used for the act. While this stuff is based on eastern religion and basically the height of mythological thinking, which is the realization that ultimate reality (God?) and you yourself are interconnected and whole, they've presented it in such a dishonest and intentionally deceptive way that it basically taints any philosophical truth that may be found in it. That's not the way to present in depth philosophical understandings and realizations. This circus side show works against the philosophical points that they're trying to make. 

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Oh… Bravo Josh!  

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