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Goodbye Jesus

Entheogens?


RogueScholar

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Until about three or for years ago when I started a course of study that looked at pharmacology in detail, specifically the evidence, I had a rigid opinion regarding the use of psychedelic substances for entheogenic purposes. However, my views have changed markedly after an honest look at the evidence. Particularly, contemporary psilocybin and MDMA studies.

 

I feel if I am to continue to discuss these agents and perhaps look at research, I think having a personal experience in a controlled setting may be illuminating but admittedly subjective. It is not my intent to use said experience to make claims about the universe. I now have the opportunity to embarke on such an experience and I will be given a dose of a certain agent that should result in the characteristic subjective findings associated with the use of said agent. Additionally, the experience should last several hours and I will expect to have a rough time physically with nausea and vomiting.

 

My question really revolves around set and setting as this appears to be very important for the overall experience. The setting will be out of doors and in a beautiful area of the world. However, my mindset is another matter. In the years following my deconversion I find I am more at peace with my life than ever. I have a strong, loving relationship with my spouse and I have a few wonderful friends. I am also on great terms with my family and have had some recent experiences that have been overwhelmingly positive. In other words, I am a pretty content dude. Therefore, I am a bit sketchy on how to enter this experience regarding mindset. Should I consider looking at past traumatic experiences? I used to be in flight medicine but left after loosing several friends including a beloved manager to horrific accidents. I used to have terrible nightmares and felt significant angst. However, I've started to fly commercially again after several years and I'm surprisingly good and not at all having nightmares or anxiety. Should I revisit my time overseas as these experiences started me on the path to deconversion? Should I just go in and wing it?

 

If I am to experience this opportunity I want to try to get as much out of it as possible. I understand if you are hesistant to discuss taboo subjects but I know at least a few folks here have had past experiences with these substances. I would also be happy to take it to PM.

 

Again, I'm not looking to come back and make assertions or claims about the universe. However, if I am able to reflect inward in ways that perhaps I've never experienced, then I hope take as much positive away from said experience as possible.

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Just wing it, because you won't have much control over what you're going to think anyway. Stuff will come up, you can consider it and let it go. A positive mindset is best: "it's going to be ok". Have a non-high person with you as "ground control". Your ground control should have experience talking people down from anxiety. They should have previously had experience with the drug you're doing.

 

If you're doing MDMA you're just going to want to hug everyone. Have lots of drinking water around.

 

Psilocybin is less predictable, and is more like LSD. In terms of practicality, I would have 10mg of Valium or similar handy for when you come down or if you take a wrong turn.

 

I would suggest DMT over both, but I know it's hard to find.

 

These views should not be taken as medical advice or advice to do anything illegal. I am not a medical doctor.

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No worries, I really appreciate the advice. I will be outdoors but in a safe environment with "ground control" nearby. I will be ingesting a tea like mixture that will contain approximately 600 mg of mescaline. As mescaline is a phenethlamine like MDMA, I understand the effects are similar but mescaline has some visual effects that are somewhat similar to psilocybin or DMT. I also understand that the physical effects of mescaline in this form are similar to ayahuasca (DMT + harmalin alkaloids) in that purging is common.

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Oh for goodness sake… you MUST have someone with you who is experienced in these things… who can talk you down if you freak out, (we use to call them babysitters) someone you trust and maybe has first-aid. Please stay somewhere where you have access to medical care, within reason - everyone reacts differently. Bring orange juice…. don't drink it unless you have to..(vitamin C helps your body metabolize) but LOTS of water.

 

Don't go in 'expecting' anything, and DON'T go in to relive or deal with trauma. If you are afraid that's going to colour the entire thing… maybe start small?   example: you don't drop 5 hits of acid the first time, or you shouldn't. ('shrooms are very similar). Don't expect to be able to sleep or eat for quite a while after. 

 

You may vomit… you may not. Valium… or a benzodiazapene of some sorts if you need to come down.

 

Looks like some of us have been here before!  lol

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No worries, I really appreciate the advice. I will be outdoors but in a safe environment with "ground control" nearby. I will be ingesting a tea like mixture that will contain approximately 600 mg of mescaline. As mescaline is a phenethlamine like MDMA, I understand the effects are similar but mescaline has some visual effects that are somewhat similar to psilocybin or DMT. I also understand that the physical effects of mescaline in this form are similar to ayahuasca (DMT + harmalin alkaloids) in that purging is common.

Mescaline is very different from MDMA. It's much more intense. And it's nothing like DMT. Nothing is like DMT. I suggest you do some research at https://www.erowid.org/

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Thanks. I've actually spent some time in erowid. I didn't mean to suggest mescaline is like DMT, only that from what I can find, it produces visual and in some cases auditory sensations that are different from MDMA even though both MDMA and mescaline share structural similarities. I've also read that synesthesia is not uncommon with mescaline.

 

NZ, thanks and no worries I will have support from folks that are very experienced peyote users.

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Thanks. I've actually spent some time in erowid. I didn't mean to suggest mescaline is like DMT, only that from what I can find, it produces visual and in some cases auditory sensations that are different from MDMA even though both MDMA and mescaline share structural similarities. I've also read that synesthesia is not uncommon with mescaline.

 

NZ, thanks and no worries I will have support from folks that are very experienced peyote users.

So you're taking peyote? Yeah, you're gonna barf. Just go with it. You'll see things, you'll hear things, just ride the wave and don't be uptight or over-prepare/over-think it.

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Cool, thanks. Yeah, nearly universally, I've read that mescaline via peyote causes purging. Sounds like the most consistent advise is to just roll with it. I will not prepare for anything in particular and just go with it so to speak.

 

Edit: I will complete a 24 hour fast prior to the peyote however, so that may be somewhat helpful?

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Dry heaving? 

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Yes, this will probably occur, but better after a fast as opposed to occurring with a full stomach I imagine.

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I look forward to hearing about whatever shamanic experience you end up having...

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I will report back but from what I understand, it may be difficult to describe. Unfortunately, it will be a highly subjective experience and cannot be used to make any claims about the world but I will see what thoughts and feelings come foreward. I may wait to respond if I feel I need to take time to think about things. I really do not know at this point.

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You don't think psychological insights are valuable? You think your subjectivity is not valuable? Why are you taking this trip? Is collecting physical data the only valid reason to do something? It sounds like you're already placing limits on your experience, and that will create conflict in your mind. If you're going to have a meaningful peyote trip, you're going to have to relax and stop thinking about science and rationality. Otherwise why are you seeking an non-rational experience?

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I did not say I think such experiences lack value but I have no plans to make assertions about the universe based on said experiences. I admit I may have experiences that are subjectively interesting and I will certainly try to remain open to whatever I happen to experience. However, making assertions about the universe based on poor evidence is what led me to believe homosexuality was a sin and that children should be forced to pledge allegiance to a country ruled by "god" and that said god demands suffering and pain While I wish to remain open regarding "spiritual" experiences and perhaps subjectively "non-rational" experiences, I simply refuse to go back to making assertions and judgments based on poor evidence. Particularly when I look back at the pitiful and spiteful Human that I used to be.

 

I wish to explore and I really want to see what these experiences are all about, but I have to be careful. Hopefully you understand what I am trying to say and my concerns as an ex-christian?

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You might start having visions decoding Daniel and Revelation, gather a small following, and found a new sect of Christianity.

 

Yeah, nothing to worry about....

 

eek.gif  

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You can't fly and you won't see God.

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I just came off of a two day peyote trip. It was not a gentle teacher. I'm pretty much wrecked. I'll pull my thoughts together and will attempt a coherent post later.

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Sorry about the last post. I just had a really difficult time confronting things a few nights ago. The "medicine would not let me go." It kept telling me to face the issues and the more I resisted, the sicker I got. Finally, I just gave in and then the medicine "allowed" me to purge. I vomited so violently my airway was full at one point and I couldn't breath. I knew I was dead, I was going to aspirate and die. However, that didn't happen and the purge was ultimately cathartic. The first four hours of the peyote experience were the ones where I had profound experiences while watching the sun set and stars come out. Colours were vibrant and changed hue. The Stars were magnificent and alternated between a salmon red and the "standard" starlight white. At certain points It was as though my consciousness dissolved away into the mountains, clouds and the stars, as if my body didn't matter, as if nothing mattered. I felt completely detached from the person known as "RogueScholar." After that, it was like "okay you had your light show...time to get to work bit$@." Then, the rest of the night was all about sickness, confronting "myself," and being denied the purging I desperately wanted until certain memories were examined.

 

I was actually immersed in vibrant feelings of joy, love and well being for most of day following my experience. Likely due to a big serotonin dump from the mescaline the prior night, but it has put a positive spin on things. I had never been so at ease, so unconcerned; as if everything was perfect. I am left feeling like the person I was the day after is the person I want to strive to be.

 

Have I received any profound otherworldly wisdom or revelation? I don't think so. Did I see or experience "god?" Certainly not in any "theistic" way that I can appreciate. Was this very much a "spiritual" experience? I cannot think of any other label for what I experienced. I cannot make any claims about the universe, but I certainly explored the inner landscapes of my "personal universe" in ways I've never done. I had a sort of out of body experience when I was a little kid with pneumonia, but this was something else. I am still what most would call an agnostic atheist but there are certainly experiences that I cannot adequately explain and cannot foresee any "currently known" method for elucidating and replicating what I experienced. Even the words I've attempted to carefully chose in this post are not a completely accurate reflection of what I experienced.

 

From what I understand, Sam Harris has written on atheist spirituality and the psychedelic experience. I will be checking this work out. Currently, I have no immediate plans to take more entheogens, but perhaps I will take another journey after a couple of months when I've had additional time for self reflection.

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