Worthless Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 13, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted April 13, 2015 But what if Islam is true? Or Scientology? Or FSM? They all have equal evidence going for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. The Pascal's Wager canard. My, my, my. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. Nobody can return to the flock after having left it, Worthless. Hebrews 6 : 4 - 6, NIV. 4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Your call for us to return to the flock has as much value as your appellation. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2PhiloVoid Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. Hey Worthless!! Hi my friend. I just wanted to let you know that I've been hanging around in these here parts for several weeks... What you've presented here in your first post is, unfortunately, the equivalent of attempting to move a Mack Truck with your pinky. Jusy say'n, Peace, 2PhiloVoid 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2PhiloVoid Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. The Pascal's Wager canard. My, my, my. I wouldn't exactly identify is as on par with Pascal's Wager. It may sound like that... But a whoopee cushion also sounds like others things, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutsider Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Truly original, I must say I've never heard that one before. Quite compelling. I shall now accept Dread Lord Cthulhu as my lord and devourer. Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! Ph'nglul mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn! ... If you didn't catch that, I was being sarcastic (sardonic?). Pascal's wager falls apart soon as you realize there is more than one god myth. Besides, Azathoth would totally obliterate the puny Yahweh any day, only Yog-Sothoth would be able to find him afterwords. See? I have to accept all mythology, or none of it. I choose none of it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ravenstar Posted April 13, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted April 13, 2015 Do you know what's not worth it? Living a lie. I did not come to my position lightly… not even close. I struggled and studied and struggled some more. it wasn't until I was completely bowled over by the TONS of evidence against the Bible and christianity that I had to admit it was all bunk. I was FORCED to leave christianity, because it just doesn't have anything to back it up and I could not 'choose' to believe something that just wasn't true, and as an honest person I could not live a lie. Welcome to Ex-C! 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. The Pascal's Wager canard. My, my, my. I wouldn't exactly identify is as on par with Pascal's Wager. It may sound like that... But a whoopee cushion also sounds like others things, too. I realize Worthless's post requires us to assume the Christian mythology is correct in the first instance and that Pascal's Wager does not require an a priori assumption of that premise, although I might argue that it implies the same a priori assumption. The "advice" to "go back and return to the flock" is the same. It's close enough to call it a Pascal's Wager. It's certainly closer than comparing the sound of a whoopee cushion to actual flatulence, which, depending on the quality of the whoopee cushion, can be sonically indistinguishable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2PhiloVoid Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. The Pascal's Wager canard. My, my, my. I wouldn't exactly identify is as on par with Pascal's Wager. It may sound like that... But a whoopee cushion also sounds like others things, too. I realize Worthless's post requires us to assume the Christian mythology is correct in the first instance and that Pascal's Wager does not require an a priori assumption of that premise, although I might argue that it implies the same a priori assumption. The "advice" to "go back and return to the flock" is the same. It's close enough to call it a Pascal's Wager. It's certainly closer than comparing the sound of a whoopee cushion to actual flatulence, which, depending on the quality of the whoopee cushion, can be sonically indistinguishable. True enough, sdelsolray, ...but a whoopee cushion lacks other.... (ahem!) ....distinguishable sensory characteristics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. If you will simply assume I am the retired vice-president of Nigeria then you dare not pass up on this very lucrative opportunity I have for you. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 ...but a whoopee cushion lacks other.... (ahem!) ....distinguishable sensory characteristics. Jokes will not distract us from the fact that Christianity has only a few simple tricks to gain new followers and every single one of them is deeply flawed. If God really is the evil dictator that the Bible makes God out to be then nobody should worship that monster. But if the Bible is wrong about God's deeds or God's nature then why should we believe any of it? The whole religion is simply myth and fairy tales. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. <snip> Yeah, you lost me right there. I don't need to pretend anything about some guy we have virtually no reliable information about being somehow also an imaginary deity. Because he isn't. End of discussion. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. Your claim that "t's not worth it" assumes your hypothetical premise is correct, i.e., that "IT is true". If that is correct, then your advice seems sound at first blush. But even if correct and that particular group of sky fairies actually exists, and unless you surrender to them with all your heart, worship them etc., you will be punished, as some versions that particular religion's dogma dictates, I suspect many folks would choose the punishment over the alternative. Others would stand by their own morals, which would deem such action by these powerful deities as immoral, empty and evil, choosing punishment over association with such shallow beings. But let's turn your premise around. What if "IT" was not true at all but simply complete fiction? What would a wise person do in that hypothetical situation? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StJeffTheIncomprehensible Posted April 14, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi Worthless, Welcome to the Den. First, I want you to know that we, as humanists, do not think you’re worthless, though your faith would teach you otherwise. You are better than that. You aren’t born into sin, lost and undone on your way to a devil’s hell unless you’re washed in the Precious Blood of the Lamb. You are somebody. Which is more than I can say about god. Now, about your post. Please consider the following: 1. You seem to be under the impression that we left Christianity because someone looked at us crossly at church one day, or Sister Lardbottom criticized our tater salad, or some other insignificant reason. Most, if not all, of us were neck deep in the faith, and leaving was not made on a whim. We thought about it. We read. We studied. We tried all manner of ways to retain faith. We only left as a last resort, because we couldn’t do otherwise. We have good reasons for leaving. You should stick around, listen close, and hear a few of them. 2. You seem to think that believing is a simple matter of will. “Oh, you’re not a believer? Just believe! How much easier can it be?!” It doesn’t work that way, friend. Belief is more than an act of will. The mind must be swayed by some evidence. And, to be blunt, evidence for god is pretty damn thin to non-existent. 3. As mymistake and others have mentioned, even if you could prove beyond doubt that the god of the bible existed, it wouldn’t mean that everyone would be tripping over themselves to bow and worship him. Just one example of god’s hateful character should suffice—The Great Flood. The bible is full of god’s cruelty, unfairness, jealousy, pride, etc. The bible doesn’t paint a very appealing picture of this god you serve. I sure wouldn’t want to spend eternity with him, and I consider it a great blessing in life to no longer believe such a being exists. If your loving god wants to sentence me to a country-fried eternity for nothing more than following the good reason he gave me, then he can kiss my round brownie right where it stinks. Glad to make your acquaintance, WorthSomething! 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. How about No, we don't do that. Instead we work on making our lives better here on earth and not worry about What IFs". 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RipVanWinkle Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 You have made number of mistakes in your OP, but I'll address only one for now. You are mistaking the Xtian concept of faith as being freely available to everybody. That one cannot, in truth ,lose her faith in the Xtian god if she has made a knowledgeable and thoughtful determination that Xtianity is not true. God will prevent that. You will probably want to say that if she were a true Xtian she could not lose her faith because god would not let that happen. Forgive my French, but that is bullshit. Can you see how arrogant that belief is? To take that position you must blithely discount the ex-christian's research and other efforts that took her years as being worthless in view of your leap of faith based upon no evidence, That is, the astonishing belief that somehow natural laws were set aside for Jesus' birth and death. Why do your think your faith should trump years of research and thinking and praying and reading the bible, etc. that resulted in the exchristian not believing the bronze era myth? I'll bet dollars to donuts that you do not have a clue as to the evidence that supports my position (or your own position , for that matter) Most of us here have read extensively to become informed at the public library on the subject, rather than take the word some evangelist who makes (in many cases) large sums of money pitching the gospel which she interpreted her own way that best serves her purposes, which are primarily financial. Wake up! The last church I went to pitched the idea that you can go to hell using logic to analyze Xtianity. Blind faith is the key to remain ignorant, which is what god wants.How ridiculous. Rip 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsiderTheSource Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 We all have, for sure, one opportunity to live. Worthless who is the greater fool? The one who understands that their time to live is so limited and thus so precious who goes out and lives and savors every moment in the way best for for them? Or, is it someone who chases unseen unheard unfelt untouchable "ghosts" (which ghost should one choose???)...in exchange for a unproven promise (or in false fear of a fate written about, but for which there are no witnesses to attest to) from an Iron Age man written book.... who experiences guilt, aniexty, and lack of of empathy for others outside of "there group". I wasted more then half my life absorbed with the wrong and misguided choice. I am now doing my best to make the most of the rest of precious, and only, life. I used to be you. But now i am living a wonderful anxiety free life. I am soooooo happy! :) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. The Pascal's Wager canard. My, my, my. I wouldn't exactly identify is as on par with Pascal's Wager. It may sound like that... But a whoopee cushion also sounds like others things, too. I realize Worthless's post requires us to assume the Christian mythology is correct in the first instance and that Pascal's Wager does not require an a priori assumption of that premise, although I might argue that it implies the same a priori assumption. The "advice" to "go back and return to the flock" is the same. It's close enough to call it a Pascal's Wager. It's certainly closer than comparing the sound of a whoopee cushion to actual flatulence, which, depending on the quality of the whoopee cushion, can be sonically indistinguishable. True enough, sdelsolray, ...but a whoopee cushion lacks other.... (ahem!) ....distinguishable sensory characteristics. Your analogy employed the sound (a sensory characteristic) of a whoopee cushion. Of course, Pascals Wager, or the OP's hypothetical, as similar or different as they may be, contain no sensory characteristics. Thanks for identifying another reason to identify your analogy as a poor analogy. But as inserted humor, it gets a 4.5 on a scale of 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. Hi Worthless, I'm going to focus on this part because you seemed to have switched tracks here in the middle of a thought. So, yes, let's say Jesus really wasn't a god but was either an ordinary if very enlightened individual or he was a made-up character used to convey messages in secret between people who were rebelling against the dogmatic theocratic oppression at the time and fearing for their lives. Is that so bad? Would that really discount it all? Or is aligning yourself with the message of eking out a living a simple life of love, compassion, kindness, charity, and happiness aligning yourself with God's Truth regardless? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. God cannot be fooled like that. You know this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi worthless. Stick around and read a few more posts. Maybe in time you'll be able to answer your own question. In the meantime, maybe check out this link: http://www.kyroot.com/?p=8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 You all know I'm generally not a fan of humor when discussing something as important and evil as Christianity, but I must say: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Our latest Christian poster is either thirteen, or a dumbass. And remember that logically speaking, my use of the word "or" does not imply that both can't be true. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. God cannot be fooled like that. You know this. A deity gains nothing when unbelievers go through the motions and provide lip service. However a con artist gains everything by convincing the unbelievers to go along with the scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Hi, I'm a Christian here. Just wanted to say I read the posts every now and then. Let us pretend that Jesus is not real. He was just a man, a lunatic, or didn't even exist. He never died for you, He never saved you. You were brainwashed etc. But what if IT is true? What if there really is a heaven and hell, and you are going straight to hell, where you will burn and be tormented for all eternity? A wise person would go back and return to the flock and serve Jesus just in case. Maybe you will have to put up with hypocrisy, and judgment inside the church....but at least that is only for a short while compared to suffering in hell for all eternity. It's not worth it. I have no use for a god that would create a hell. None at all. I cannot love it, and I cannot pretend to love it. I am so sure that any god worthy of the name would not create such a place, I reject unconditionally the alleged sacrifice of Jesus and am prepared to go to hell if it turns out that the horrific Christian mythos is true. It's absolutely worth the risk to uphold what I believe to be moral. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsiderTheSource Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 . Please delete admin. I posted to the wrong place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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