Guest end3 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Who is "it" who does this qualifying? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 14, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted April 14, 2015 I don't know that what you might regard as "change" is relevant. Most thinking people believe that which for some reason makes sense to them, though people have wildly varying standards for what makes sense. IOW, a thing is believable or it is not. To say that one has "renounced" a particular belief is misleading in the sense that we believe what we can and don't believe what we can't; it's not some random decision of choice like "renouncing" the eating of meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed? What good is it to hold a belief that promises to change you, if you aren't changed by it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Who is "it" who does this qualifying? Ourselves and our contemporaries I gather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 What does that mean in English? You either believe an idea or you don't believe an idea. What is renouncing a belief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I don't know that what you might regard as "change" is relevant. Most thinking people believe that which for some reason makes sense to them, though people have wildly varying standards for what makes sense. IOW, a thing is believable or it is not. To say that one has "renounced" a particular belief is misleading in the sense that we believe what we can and don't believe what we can't; it's not some random decision of choice like "renouncing" the eating of meat. Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the results, be it an outward or inward perception. Our practice could easily be short of these standards. So it seems necessary that a positive perception of ourselves is the change that fuels the qualification for "life"......given "life" is somewhat an accepted definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the results, be it an outward or inward perception. Our practice could easily be short of these standards. So it seems necessary that a positive perception of ourselves is the change that fuels the qualification for "life"......given "life" is somewhat an accepted definition. No religion gains followers by making sense. Religions use emotional hooks to trick people. It's fallacies all the way down. Not a single reason for religion makes sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the results, be it an outward or inward perception. Our practice could easily be short of these standards. So it seems necessary that a positive perception of ourselves is the change that fuels the qualification for "life"......given "life" is somewhat an accepted definition. No religion gains followers by making sense. Religions use emotional hooks to trick people. It's fallacies all the way down. Not a single reason for religion makes sense. That's why I included "religious behaviors".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the results, be it an outward or inward perception. Our practice could easily be short of these standards. So it seems necessary that a positive perception of ourselves is the change that fuels the qualification for "life"......given "life" is somewhat an accepted definition. No religion gains followers by making sense. Religions use emotional hooks to trick people. It's fallacies all the way down. Not a single reason for religion makes sense.That's why I included "religious behaviors".... I don't get it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed? What good is it holding a religious belief if you're just as foul-mouthed, intolerant and bigoted as you were before you believed? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I only believed in it because I was told about is as a young child, so didn't openly question the adults who told me about it. But I always did have questions, then had to wait like 30 years before the internet was invented so it could help me answer them! I was also raised by agnostics that told me "People invented religion to help them make sense of why we are here and what happens after we die" (my dad), and "Don't take religion too seriously" (my mom), but we didn't discuss religion (or agnosticism) much at home, since they were happy with their sense of where religion had come from and not to take it seriously, but at the same time we attended church and my "teenage rebellion" was to take religion seriously. But even when I took it seriously, I had serious questions and thought so many of the stories made no good sense. And reading the book about the bicameral mind by Julian Jaynes really answered my main question about religion. I don't feel like I renounced anything. I feel like I've had my questions answered to my satisfaction and I was able to make an informed decision that I feel comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed? What good is it holding a religious belief if you can't (or won't) see that it's changed you for the worse? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed? What good is it to hold a belief that promises to change you, if you aren't changed by it? The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed? What good is it holding a religious belief if you're just as foul-mouthed, intolerant and bigoted as you were before you believed? This is pure gold! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the results, be it an outward or inward perception. Our practice could easily be short of these standards. So it seems necessary that a positive perception of ourselves is the change that fuels the qualification for "life"......given "life" is somewhat an accepted definition. No religion gains followers by making sense. Religions use emotional hooks to trick people. It's fallacies all the way down. Not a single reason for religion makes sense.That's why I included "religious behaviors".... I don't get it. You never will with his bizarre responses. Stay tuned, they get nuttier and even more unintelligible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted April 14, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the results Must disagree. No religion makes sense as they all rely on a belief in magic at the core. That's not to say that certain practices promoted by certain religions can't bring about visible change in mood or behavior. Of course the key to any such practices, whether in the name of religion or something else like life coaching, meditation, AA or therapy is one's belief that it works. For example, one may find the strength to quit bad habits and other destructive behaviors or attitudes when given proper tools by their church, AA group, psychiatrist, guru or even motivational speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed? What good is it to hold a religious belief if you're going to lie to yourself about it having changed you for the better? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the results, be it an outward or inward perception. Our practice could easily be short of these standards. So it seems necessary that a positive perception of ourselves is the change that fuels the qualification for "life"......given "life" is somewhat an accepted definition. No religion gains followers by making sense. Religions use emotional hooks to trick people. It's fallacies all the way down. Not a single reason for religion makes sense. That's why I included "religious behaviors".... I don't get it. There are actions we do religiously that are not defined as a particular religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed? What good is it to hold a religious belief that puts truth above all else, if you always dodge questions about your true behavior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the results, be it an outward or inward perception. Our practice could easily be short of these standards. So it seems necessary that a positive perception of ourselves is the change that fuels the qualification for "life"......given "life" is somewhat an accepted definition. No religion gains followers by making sense. Religions use emotional hooks to trick people. It's fallacies all the way down. Not a single reason for religion makes sense.That's why I included "religious behaviors"....I don't get it.There are actions we do religiously that are not defined as a particular religion. Example please. I still don't understand what you are getting at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the resultsMust disagree. No religion makes sense as they all rely on a belief in magic at the core. That's not to say that certain practices promoted by certain religions can't bring about visible change in mood or behavior. Of course the key to any such practices, whether in the name of religion or something else like life coaching, meditation, AA or therapy is one's belief that it works. For example, one may find the strength to quit bad habits and other destructive behaviors or attitudes when given proper tools by their church, AA group, psychiatrist, guru or even motivational speaker. I guess all I am saying is what ever religious practice or defined religion it may be, the belief aspect as a result of the practice is probably what qualifies us in our mind as to it validity. For example, if I religiously skip to work every day and it internally qualifies me as a generally good person, guess what, that skipping religion is the gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the results, be it an outward or inward perception. Our practice could easily be short of these standards. So it seems necessary that a positive perception of ourselves is the change that fuels the qualification for "life"......given "life" is somewhat an accepted definition. No religion gains followers by making sense. Religions use emotional hooks to trick people. It's fallacies all the way down. Not a single reason for religion makes sense. That's why I included "religious behaviors".... That does not solve the problem. Religious behaviors don't make sense either. Do you really think the Aztecs needed to cut the beating hearts out of 10,000 prisoners in order to ensure a good harvest? Do you really think Christians needed to burn dozens of young women accused of witchcraft in order to ensure break a curse? Your crap is bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed? What good is it to hold a religious belief that requires you to change yourself, if you consistently refuse to change yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed? What good is it to hold a religious belief that tells you to live at peace with everyone, if you consistently refuse to live at peace with everyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Well we are exposed to religious behavior and particular religions that make sense enough to believe in the results, be it an outward or inward perception. Our practice could easily be short of these standards. So it seems necessary that a positive perception of ourselves is the change that fuels the qualification for "life"......given "life" is somewhat an accepted definition. No religion gains followers by making sense. Religions use emotional hooks to trick people. It's fallacies all the way down. Not a single reason for religion makes sense. That's why I included "religious behaviors".... That does not solve the problem. Religious behaviors don't make sense either. Do you really think the Aztecs needed to cut the beating hearts out of 10,000 prisoners in order to ensure a good harvest? Do you really think Christians needed to burn dozens of young women accused of witchcraft in order to ensure break a curse? Your crap is bankrupt. I'm praying you and CC find your religion. (I don't expect you to understand this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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