Qualification

[Guest end3]

 

The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed?

 

What good is it to hold a religious belief that tells you to live at peace with everyone, if you consistently refuse to live at peace with everyone?

 

I think that's the point I am trying to make....

[mymistake]

 

 

The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed?

 

What good is it to hold a religious belief that tells you to live at peace with everyone, if you consistently refuse to live at peace with everyone?

 

I think that's the point I am trying to make....

 

 

 

But you are not really sure.  That is why all such conversations end in word salad and frustration.  If 

 

you don't even know what point you are trying to make what hope is there for understanding you?

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed?

 

What good is it to hold a religious belief that tells you to live at peace with everyone, if you consistently refuse to live at peace with everyone?

 

I think that's the point I am trying to make....

 

 

Then live at peace with FTNZ and apologize to her for calling her an antagonistic bitch.

 

As a Christian, the first move is yours, not hers.

[disillusioned]

The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed?

 

It may help one to make more sense of the world. I've found this to be somewhat useful.

[Guest end3]

 

 

 

The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed?

 

What good is it to hold a religious belief that tells you to live at peace with everyone, if you consistently refuse to live at peace with everyone?

 

I think that's the point I am trying to make....

 

 

 

But you are not really sure.  That is why all such conversations end in word salad and frustration.  If 

 

you don't even know what point you are trying to make what hope is there for understanding you?

 

MM, there are several that understood what I was getting at very quickly. Why is it a necessity that you understand to your satisfaction?

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed?

 

What good is it to hold a religious belief that tells you to live at peace with everyone, if you consistently refuse to live at peace with everyone?

 

I think that's the point I am trying to make....

 

 

Then now's the time to sacrifice yourself, show some grace and build a better relationship with FTNZ.

 

This is the way you believe God is shown in relationships, right?

 

By people sacrificing themselves and showing grace, yes?

 

So start practicing what you preach and apologize to FTNZ, End.

[mymistake]

 

MM, there are several (imaginary people) that understood what I was getting at very quickly. Why is it a necessity that you (do you try to) understand to your satisfaction?

 

 

 

Yes, I am sure that God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, along with all the

 

angels above and all the demons below know exactly what you mean when you babble.

 

I try to understand because I hate miscommunication and despise making assumptions.

[bornagainathiest]

 

 

 

The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed?

 

What good is it to hold a religious belief that tells you to live at peace with everyone, if you consistently refuse to live at peace with everyone?

 

I think that's the point I am trying to make....

 

 

Then now's the time to sacrifice yourself, show some grace and build a better relationship with FTNZ.

 

This is the way you believe God is shown in relationships, right?

 

By people sacrificing themselves and showing grace, yes?

 

So start practicing what you preach and apologize to FTNZ, End.

 

 

Gotta go now, End.

 

When I log on again tomorrow I hope to see that you've made peace with FTNZ by apologizing to her for calling her an antagonistic bitch.

 

Just as you should do according to your own beliefs in God being seen thru grace, sacrifice and relationships.

.

.

.

Doing that should be good practice for your next act of grace-filled and self-sacrificial relationship-building.

 

Specifically, making peace with me by apologizing to me for calling me a liar.

.

.

.

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

 

 

 

 

p.s.

Oh and don't forget to add these items to your peace-making 'to do' list.

 

1.  Making peace with God for bearing false witness against BAA.

2.  Making peace with everyone in the thread where you called them, "fucking idiots!"

3.  Making peace with God for all the times you've blasphemed and used His Son's name to cuss with.

 

I'm sure I'll find some more for you, btw.

 

You know how I keep records of almost everything, right?

 

[♦ ficino ♦]

The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed?

I'm not sure I understand this.  The reference of your second "it" is unclear.

 

Do you mean, if the act of renunciation of a belief does not lead to a changed life, the renunciation was no good?

 

I came to the point where I had to renounce Christianity or, basically, die.  If not die physically, die inside.  It was killing me to pretend to keep worshiping an unjust, untrustworthy God.  Christianity's dogmas and moral teachings, much as they contain some good, struck me at a certain point as unjust.  God's promises did not stand up.  Little children's prayers for a dying man went unheeded.  Who else should move God's heart if not little believing children?  It all made sense when I realized it was man-made.

 

That realization changed me.

 

I started to live a life.  I found love beyond what I imagined I could.  There were many struggles to come, but at least, they were real ones.  Not struggles made even worse by the "what is God trying to tell me" mind games that we all know all too well.

 

You can have grace without the myth, end.  Each one of us can pity a human face.

[Avandris]

I'm curious as to who said renouncing a belief doesn't lead to change?

 

If we are talking about Christianity (and I'm going to assume we are) then the process of leaving it behind has definitely left me changed. More so internally than externally, but changed nonetheless.

[duderonomy]

The question is, what good is it to renounce a belief if it doesn't qualify one as changed?

 

You'll be less angry, less worried, and less unsure once you leave Christianity.

 

You'll wake up some morning, and realize that you just don't believe it anymore. You won't have renounced your belief. You'll find that it left you sometime between last night and today, and without so much as a whimper.

The morning sun will be brighter, the grass will be greener, the sky bluer. Just like you remembered when you were an innocent kid, or when you fell in love for the first time and heard "I love you too" in return. Just like when you were first "born again".  It'll feel like that at first.

Later, you'll worry that the devil has tricked you, and that you have fallen from grace. "God has sent me a delusion!"  Don't worry about that part, because when Biblegod goes away, BibleDevil also goes away.  

 

You may renounce that belief later, but you won't have to if you don't want to. 

[Geezer]

I don't understand the point the OP was making, or attempting to make. I am assuming it had something to do with the Christian dogma related to sin or original sin. We are all born sinful and we need Jesus through baptism to wash away our sins? If that was the point that was attempting to be made, then I also assume the OP was saying, or implying, if we left our faith or renounced it then what changed?  

 

I don't presume to know why others left their faith, but I left because through years of study and research I confirmed to my complete satisfaction that Christianity and the bible are not true in any literal or historical sense. The bible is essentially an adult fairy tale.

 

Christian dogma claims that accepting Jesus as personal lord and savior will change a person's life. I was a Christian for more than 40 years and I saw no evidence that accepting Jesus actually changed anyone's deepest desires and tendencies. It did encourage people to change their public behavior, at least while they were in the presence of other Christians, but not so much when they weren't. People are who they are and accepting Jesus might have some influence on some superficial level for a short period of time. Men still had issues with their sexuality. they still watched porn, they still lied and cheated in their business practices, Woman still had affairs, gossiped, and were just as interested in porn as the men. A recent study I read noted that approximately 33% of the clergy was either involved in an affair, had been, or would be. And we all know about Catholic Priest and their issues and the way the Church protected them.

 

Some of the meanest people I ever encountered were leaders of the Church. When I left Christianity I am not aware that anything of significance changed in my life or personality, but I didn't leave Christianity so I could become a sinner without a conscious. I left, as I noted previously, because Christianity and the bible are not true. And it if isn't true I see no reason to give my money and time to support it or even to be associated with it.

 

In  my experience Christianity didn't make people any different, but it did make them better liars.

[Jeff]

I don't think I've ever responded to you before end, mostly because I think you're mainly here just to troll and stir things up.

That said, I'm going to take you seriously for a moment and say that I think you are not a believer. You don't believe in the god you seem to be arguing for here. You are here on ex Christian because that's what you are, an ex Christian.

You obviously have no defense against BAAs accusations regarding your speech and behavior. If you were a believer, this would prick your conscience but you just ignore.

I think you can not possible believe and behave as you do. You either don't understand the teachings of christ(I don't blame you there) or you just don't believe that they matter.

Face it. You're actually an Athiest and just can't admit it.

If I'm wrong, then I think you seriously need a personal revival.

If I'm right, no one here would be upset if you just said "I was wrong. There is no God. He's made no positive change in my life". You would be welcomed and sympathized with for having been fooled like so many of us were for so long.

Answer BAAs accusations or admit you are false and get going on the deconversion process.

Don't be afraid.

Edit: I'm not mocking you. I'm serious End

[Geezer]

Jeff makes an interesting observation. end3 has 7629 posts, so he isn't the typical hit and run Christian. That is a lot of posts, so what is your purpose for being here end3? This site is clearly intended to support and encourage those who have decided to leave their faith for whatever reason. You are obviously not here to do that, so why are you here?

 

If you are seeking lost sheep in hopes of returning them to the fold, which is the only reason I can image a believer posting here, you clearly have a different way of going about that. Is it working? Have you been successful in bringing a lost sheep to repentance? Are you this active on Christian sites too? You are a bit of an enigma end3, but certainly not a problem.  

[sdelsolray]

End3 is here on this forum to practice his relationship skills and grace.

[mymistake]

End3 is here on this forum to practice his relationship skills and grace.

 

 

I thought End3 was here to make a mockery of Christianity.

[bornagainathiest]

To Jeff, Geezer, sdelsolray and MyMistake...

 

End isn't here to practice his Christianity.

 

We can safely infer that from his reply to NukedKitty, on page 6 of the, "Christianity And Personal Responsibility" thread, in the Lion's Den. (See posts # 104 & # 106)

 

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NukedKitty, on 24 Feb 2015 - 02:57 AM, said:

 

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

 

End3, on 24 Feb 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

 

When I practice Christianity, that is attend more, read more, listen more, then I am more aware of "my sins".  So yes, I can be responsible, but Christianity helps me to be more responsible based on my practice.  Thanks NK.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

He can be responsible for his sins when he practices his Christianity.

 

Since he chooses not to be responsible for them in this forum, he therefore can't be practicing his Christianity here.

 

QED

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

 

[Fweethawt]

I like hot dogs.

[mymistake]

I like hot dogs.

 

 

That is acceptable as long as you don't put ketchup on them.

 

[sdelsolray]

To Jeff, Geezer, sdelsolray and MyMistake...

 

End isn't here to practice his Christianity.

 

We can safely infer that from his reply to NukedKitty, on page 6 of the, "Christianity And Personal Responsibility" thread, in the Lion's Den. (See posts # 104 & # 106)

 

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NukedKitty, on 24 Feb 2015 - 02:57 AM, said:

 

Hello end3, do you think that without christianity you could'nt be responsible for "your sins"

 

End3, on 24 Feb 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

 

When I practice Christianity, that is attend more, read more, listen more, then I am more aware of "my sins".  So yes, I can be responsible, but Christianity helps me to be more responsible based on my practice.  Thanks NK.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

He can be responsible for his sins when he practices his Christianity.

 

Since he chooses not to be responsible for them in this forum, he therefore can't be practicing his Christianity here.

 

QED

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

Perhaps being a little shit is not a sin in End3's version of Christianity, but is instead preferred conduct.

[duderonomy]

End, now that they mention it, what is your version of Christianity? 

[Guest end3]

Let me just answer everyone at once.....y'all remind me of my father who gave up Christianity for his intellect. The same father that will die of dementia this year, yet had his seventh wife drive him 14 hours to see me this last weekend to apologize for abandoning me and our family years ago in his anti-Christian intellectual fervor. So I'm sure I pass my disdain for him to members here with that same blind arrogance. Lol, he said, "I guess I didn't think that through".

 

It's the same here. A new member PMed me recently and described this place as "a cesspool of self-righteousness". The correct answer would be yes.

 

Many here need to heed my father's example. He's caused a lot of pain that will last generations.

 

That Jeff, and I'm tired of the Betty Better than You church crowd after my divorce. So forgive me if I'm not coming off as a believer. I believe but I'm just having to rely on the sacrificial aspect of Christ's work at the moment. Narrow is the Door indeed.

[Fweethawt]

Let me just answer everyone at once.....y'all remind me of my father who gave up Christianity for his intellect. The same father that will die of dementia this year, yet had his seventh wife drive him 14 hours to see me this last weekend to apologize for abandoning me and our family years ago in his anti-Christian intellectual fervor. So I'm sure I pass my disdain for him to members here with that same blind arrogance. Lol, he said, "I guess I didn't think that through".It's the same here. A new member PMed me recently and described this place as "a cesspool of self-righteousness". The correct answer would be yes.Many here need to heed my father's example. He's caused a lot of pain that will last generations.That Jeff, and I'm tired of the Betty Better than You church crowd after my divorce. So forgive me if I'm not coming off as a believer. I believe but I'm just having to rely on the sacrificial aspect of Christ's work at the moment. Narrow is the Door indeed.

Is it just me, or is all of this completely irrelevant to everything asked in this thread?

 

So daddy is an asshole, and the apple don't fall far. Get over it.

[Fweethawt]

.

[mymistake]

Let me just answer everyone at once.....y'all remind me of my father who gave up Christianity for his intellect. The same father that will die of dementia this year, yet had his seventh wife drive him 14 hours to see me this last weekend to apologize for abandoning me and our family years ago in his anti-Christian intellectual fervor. So I'm sure I pass my disdain for him to members here with that same blind arrogance. Lol, he said, "I guess I didn't think that through".

 

It's the same here. A new member PMed me recently and described this place as "a cesspool of self-righteousness". The correct answer would be yes.

 

Many here need to heed my father's example. He's caused a lot of pain that will last generations.

 

That Jeff, and I'm tired of the Betty Better than You church crowd after my divorce. So forgive me if I'm not coming off as a believer. I believe but I'm just having to rely on the sacrificial aspect of Christ's work at the moment. Narrow is the Door indeed.

 

 

I'm not your father.