A Catholic's Challenge To Atheists/ex-Christians

[♦ ficino ♦]

This guy is a former evangelical, then Anglican, now a Catholic priest.  He argues that Protestant fundamentalism has become identified -- wrongly -- with all of Christianity in the eyes of the liberal media, atheists, and others who reject the faith.

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/how-protestant-fundamentalism-destroys-christianity

 

He says that he never sees articles debunking Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.  If there is anything, he says, it's perhaps something about priests abusing children.  So he thinks Catholicism stands essentially unexplored and unrefuted by many who have rejected Protestant fundamentalism.

 

As an ex-fundy and later ex-Catholic, I can understand both where he's coming from and where he has not yet gone.  But does anyone else have a view?  Fr. Longenecker sounds pretty confident.

[FarflungWanderer]

I don't think there's truly as much difference as the good pastor thinks. They both read the same Bible, and this isn't the medieval ages where the Catholic Church only uses Latin in their scripture. They believe the same myths; hell, they're the ones who invented them.

 

While I admit there's a lot to be said to the relative sanity of Catholicism compared to Evangelicalism, especially the American breed, but regardless that doesn't change much more than the system that supports these myths.

 

If you disprove the Bible, you kill Catholicism with the same sword with which you kill the Fundamentalist.

[Jeff]

I thought Hitchens already slew this serpent soundly

[duderonomy]

I read the article. I don't see where a Catholic would have any better apologetic for his position than a Protestant. Different ones maybe.  I'd love to see a Catholic or two come to the Den. That would be fun!

[florduh]

I have been able to make close observations in both camps. Generally, Catholics drink more. Other than that, one turd is pretty much like another.

[FarflungWanderer]

To be absolutely honest, the Catholics I know make better (and less "holier than thou") company than the Fundies I've known, but I may just have good fortune.

 

Regardless, good people does not make something false into something true.

[StJeffTheIncomprehensible]

What's this guy even talking about? Is Catholicism Christianity? I couldn't even estimate how many articles, blog posts, books, essays, etc. are written to debunk Christianity in general. Any debunking of the supernatural applies to Catholicism. Any debunking of the reliability of the bible. Any debunking of the trinity, the virgin birth, the creation of the universe by a Very Infinite Being--it all applies. Get out more, Father. There's a whole world out there.

 

By the way, I'm one that converted from Baptist to Eastern Orthodox, spending 12 yrs. Orthodox before deconverting. The smells and bells are different. The folly is the same.

[Deidre]

''Catholicism stands unexplored.'' lol Hmmm...it has been explored...someone should send this dude a memo...the RCC has been revealed to be a corrupt, immoral organization masquerading as a moral compass for the world. At least Fundamentalists follow the Bible that Christianity is based on (Sola Scriptura)...while the RCC cherry picks what passages it values over others, as it shepherds its unsuspecting flock.

Tell that priest to meet me in the den, here.  
 

[mymistake]

 

He says that he never sees articles debunking Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.  If there is anything, he says, it's perhaps something about priests abusing children. 

 

The way priests have abused children is the greatest debunking of Catholicism since the Vatican blessed the Nazis.  Of course that was the greatest debunking of Catholicism since the witch trials of Europe and the arrest of Galileo.  And those were the best debunking of Catholicism since in Spanish Inquisition which was the best since all of the many Crusades which were the best debunking of Catholicism since the obsession with saintly bones and Christ's foreskin.  And those in turn were the best debunking of Catholicism since the Roman church created the Bible, Divinity of Christ and the Trinity.  And those were the best debunking of Catholicism since the forgery of Titus and both Timothies.  And those were the best debunking of Catholicism since the Roman Emperor made everyone a Catholic and exterminated any Christian sect that refused to join.  Before that there wasn't really a Catholic church to debunk (which it it's own way debunks the Catholic church) but the next best thing was the author of the Gospel of John correcting all the mistakes of the synoptic gospels.  And before that is was the author of Luke and the author of Matthew correcting the mistakes in the Gospel of Mark.  Before that it was the Gospel of Mark telling of a Jesus whom Paul did not preach.  Before that it was Paul claiming that he had seen a vision of Christ, claiming that he had been chosen as an apostle and speaking of behalf of Christ.  Before that it was the gnostics and the strange Jewish offshoot sects with their  mystery religions that had not yet become Christianity.

 

Catholicism is ridiculous.

[gsa]

A rather myopic view of Protestantism. My church was United Methodist, which is not even sola scriptura, although it is prima scriptura. The church emphasized scripture, tradition, reason and experience, in roughly that order, which is not very different from Catholicism, although it is a more democratic, less rigid and more gender egalitarian version of the Catholic Church, and arguably has more in common with the RCC than it does with the Baptist traditions or the Calvinists.  

 

The Methodists in our church were not biblical literalists or creationists by and large, but they still believed the same basic doctrines of the creeds.  So I'm not sure what it is that Catholicism brings to the table that makes it more palatable to be honest.  A limited respect for science and reasoned argument? You encounter all of these things in the mainline denominations which dominated the American scene for a century or more.  The same critique of Christian supernaturalism applies to all but the most liberal sectors of Methodism.  In fact I do not see what Catholicism adds.  A robust doctrinal defense of misogyny?

[duderonomy]

 

 

He says that he never sees articles debunking Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.  If there is anything, he says, it's perhaps something about priests abusing children. 

 

The way priests have abused children is the greatest debunking of Catholicism since the Vatican blessed the Nazis.  Of course that was the greatest debunking of Catholicism since the witch trials of Europe and the arrest of Galileo.  And those were the best debunking of Catholicism since in Spanish Inquisition which was the best since all of the many Crusades which were the best debunking of Catholicism since the obsession with saintly bones and Christ's foreskin.  And those in turn were the best debunking of Catholicism since the Roman church created the Bible, Divinity of Christ and the Trinity.  And those were the best debunking of Catholicism since the forgery of Titus and both Timothies.  And those were the best debunking of Catholicism since the Roman Emperor made everyone a Catholic and exterminated any Christian sect that refused to join.  Before that there wasn't really a Catholic church to debunk (which it it's own way debunks the Catholic church) but the next best thing was the author of the Gospel of John correcting all the mistakes of the synoptic gospels.  And before that is was the author of Luke and the author of Matthew correcting the mistakes in the Gospel of Mark.  Before that it was the Gospel of Mark telling of a Jesus whom Paul did not preach.  Before that it was Paul claiming that he had seen a vision of Christ, claiming that he had been chosen as an apostle and speaking of behalf of Christ.  Before that it was the gnostics and the strange Jewish offshoot sects with their  mystery religions that had not yet become Christianity.

 

Catholicism is ridiculous.

 

 

Your posts are always good, MM, but this one is brilliant.  If I knew how to print this I would, and I'd frame it too. 

[mymistake]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/how-protestant-fundamentalism-destroys-christianity

 

" . . .inculcating their world view to their children and others have also hammered into their heads that Catholicism is just plain wrong–that it can’t be right–that it is a religion of the devil."

 

Catholicism is just plain wrong.  But it is not of the devil for there is no such thing as the devil.  Catholicism is wrong because it is completely without merit and makes no sense.

 

 

" . . . he has been indoctrinated to believe that Catholicism is the one religion that is definitely, totally, forever and impossibly wrong."

 

Catholicism is not the one wrong religion.  It is no better than all the rest of the religions.  They all lack merit.  They all must use tricks and demand faith.

 

 

"Therefore where there is some religious debate going on in the mainstream media it is invariably shallow and one sided–because Catholicism is completely misunderstood and ignored."

 

Perhaps in the media.  However I have been to mass hundreds of times and most of the Christians in my life are Catholic.  They all follow blind faith without a single drop of empirical evidence for their God.  Oh they might talk about bleeding/crying statues or water stains on a window but those are not miracles.  Nor are any of the other fake miracles the Roman church trots out.

 

"But a real encounter with intelligent and knowledgable Catholics?"

 

They never have any empirical evidence to show for themselves.  It's all faith, faith, faith.

 

Faith is the opposite of "intellectually challenging".

[violetbutterfly]

 

 

He says that he never sees articles debunking Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy.  If there is anything, he says, it's perhaps something about priests abusing children. 

 

The way priests have abused children is the greatest debunking of Catholicism since the Vatican blessed the Nazis.  Of course that was the greatest debunking of Catholicism since the witch trials of Europe and the arrest of Galileo.  And those were the best debunking of Catholicism since in Spanish Inquisition which was the best since all of the many Crusades which were the best debunking of Catholicism since the obsession with saintly bones and Christ's foreskin.  And those in turn were the best debunking of Catholicism since the Roman church created the Bible, Divinity of Christ and the Trinity.  And those were the best debunking of Catholicism since the forgery of Titus and both Timothies.  And those were the best debunking of Catholicism since the Roman Emperor made everyone a Catholic and exterminated any Christian sect that refused to join.  Before that there wasn't really a Catholic church to debunk (which it it's own way debunks the Catholic church) but the next best thing was the author of the Gospel of John correcting all the mistakes of the synoptic gospels.  And before that is was the author of Luke and the author of Matthew correcting the mistakes in the Gospel of Mark.  Before that it was the Gospel of Mark telling of a Jesus whom Paul did not preach.  Before that it was Paul claiming that he had seen a vision of Christ, claiming that he had been chosen as an apostle and speaking of behalf of Christ.  Before that it was the gnostics and the strange Jewish offshoot sects with their  mystery religions that had not yet become Christianity.

 

Catholicism is ridiculous.

 

 

Can this be stickied or pinned somewhere. It is pure gold.

 

I was going to say Catholicism is just Christianty + saints + eucharist + jesus on toast + kissing Mary's ass - birth control and sex for clergy. Who really cares if nobody goes after Catholicism specifically, it still falls apart when you debunk Christianity. Do they REALLY think Catholicism is superior to Fundamentalist Christianity and therefore should be explored as another option when picking apart fundamentalism? REALLY?

 

But you said it better.

[Adam5]

This guy is a former evangelical, then Anglican, now a Catholic priest.  He argues that Protestant fundamentalism has become identified -- wrongly -- with all of Christianity in the eyes of the liberal media, atheists, and others who reject the faith.

Morning, I think he has a point of sorts there... but as we know all sects of Christianity are wrong, which includes Catholics, Fundies, Liberals, Happy Clappy, the whole lot and taking it further all religions are wrong and all sects everywhere are delusional and their books man made.  We can hope that one day these people get it.

[♦ ficino ♦]

Father Dwight is also confident that it's a "fact" that atheism is dying out.

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2015/04/the-facts-atheism-is-dying-out.html

 

I think his stuff is very superficial.  If he thinks that Catholicism is immune from criticism if it concedes that Balaam's talking ass, or Jonah and the whale, are features of theological fiction, then he himself hasn't investigated what atheists and ex-C's are saying.

 

Good responses above, guys.

[RipVanWinkle]

This  priest thinks it adds to the reliability of Catholicism because it is  more "ancient" than other denominations? Gad! He wants to have us take a look at Catholic history?. What an idiot. The crusades, inquisitions, witch hunts, rampant lying, the slaughter of Jews and Muslims and other "non believers", the exploitation of the masses in just about every way conceivable? Which of these would the idiot like to start with?   Rip

[FarflungWanderer]

This  priest thinks it adds to the reliability of Catholicism because it is  more "ancient" than other denominations?

 

By his logic, we should all be Jews. It's older, after all.

 

And yes, I know Judaism isn't a denomination of Christianity. I'm being silly.

[mymistake]

Hinduism is older still.  Must be that Hinduism is a better religion.

[milesaway]

They do like to trot out how "old" their twisted old boys club is, like that gives it any kind of credence whatsoever. Uh, huh. Sure it does...

[yunea]

Nobody would go to a doctor who only uses methods that are hundreds or thousands of years old, but when it comes to religion, the older it is and the less it has changed, the better. Weird how that works.

[Ravenstar]

Wait a minute.. didn't the 'exploration' and debunking of Catholicism start with Martin Luther? One of my MAIN reasons for questioning christianity was the history of the Catholic Church.  they are like the Godfathers (pun not intended, but teehee) of christianity.. ya, the mob kind.

 

I think there are probably more (closet) atheists in the clergy though than in protestantism.

[Guest Furball]

Other than their bizarre rituals and what have you, they are reading from the same book as the protestants. 

[StillLooking]

Other than their bizarre rituals and what have you, they are reading from the same book as the protestants. 

 

I was a Catholic, Roman Catholic, and I went to catholic schools pretty much all the way until 12th grade. One thing that I remember is we were not big on the Bible. We were big on rituals though. My conclusion is the RCC is basically made up of the Bible, some rituals and history in pretty much equal portion each.

[Fweethawt]

How about we start an 'Atheist Challenge to Catholics' where we challenge them to stop the child abuse and molesting within their churches before we even bother giving them the time of day about any other issues?

 

Sound fair?

 

It sure as shit does!

[Guest Furball]

From what i have been reading in the news : Protestants are sleeping with everyone elses wives (perverts)

                                                                       Catholics are sleeping with everyone elses children (pedophiles)

 

And they want us to believe jesus saves? 

 

 

 

According to christians and catholics, without god and the bible morality will be on the decline. Strange that this decline in morality is happening mainly in their courts, who believe in god and read (supposedly) the bible.