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Birdwatcher

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Your husband's answer seems to be a canned religious answer:  One he was taught/indoctrinated to provide.  If so, it's the religious dogma which is the cause and your husband is trapped within it.

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I don't comment on here very often because I'm not totally through my crisis of faith.  I have one foot in and one foot out so to speak, and have not earned the right to be considered an exchristian. That being said, I just have to vent somewhere safe, so please bear with me. I apologize in advance if this becomes incoherent and rambling.

 

My husband and I were at a cabin in the mountains earlier this week, and somehow or another we got on the subject of God commanding Abraham to sacrifice Isaac.  I asked him if God ever asked him to sacrifice me would he obey? My husband said that he would hope that he'd have the faith to obey.  I said, "So in other words, if God told you to sacrifice me you'd lay me out on a slab of rock and slice me from stem to stern and then burn me?" He said that if God stood right in front of him and told him to do it he would have to obey because even though he loves me, he loves God more. I felt like I was hit with a ton of bricks. When he realized how hurt I was he tried to back paddle, but the damage was already done.  We've been married for almost 32 years, and I've always loved him with all of my heart, and I thought he felt the same.  The reason I haven't deconverted totally is because I truly love my husband and I didn't want to devastate him or my dearest friends and family who are all staunch unwavering believers. I can't imagine having to start over at my age.

 

The sadness between us right now is so thick you could cut it with a knife.  My cognitive dissonance is so deep I feel like I'm on the verge of insanity.

 

I wish I never would have opened my big mouth and asked this question.  I just had to ask it didn't I?  Thanks for allowing me to vent.

 

P.S.: He then asked me what I would do if God told me to sacrifice him.  I said I'd burn in hell rather than hurt him.

P.S.S.:  Christian marriage manuals should list this as the number 1 question you never ask your spouse.

Sorry you had to go down that road.

 

This has always been a big issue with me as well and quite frankly is another flaw to Xtianity to me. I always look at this scenario and said to myself, "why even be with anyone than?"

 

To me the reason for marriage is you are marring your "1 true love". Isn't that what a marriage is suppose to be about? So, in the view point of the bible God trumps all! Everyone should just marry god than and forget about anyone else on this earth. God is the king of jealously. No others before him.

 

Hope you pull through this, we are here to help.

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Sorry to hear this Birdwatcher.  I grew up in churches that drilled it into my head that I must love God and Jesus more than my own family.  This is what the Bible teaches and some Christians take it too seriously.  I don't think your husband would really murder you.  He was raised on a religion that has these problems and Christians don't know how to fix this stuff except by either throwing away the Bible or throwing away the religion.

 

I remember back when I had one foot in each camp.  It was not pleasant.  Actually it was agony. 

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Christians have been trained to answer that question in that manner. I would always expect that to be the answer so I wouldn't ask. They usually have some extra explanation of "God would never ask me to do that though." Or else that if god ever commanded such a thing it would be because he has some super good divine reason that makes sense only to god but god didn't bother to share.

 

I remember a man saying he would kill his whole family if god told him to because if god told him to then it's the right thing to do. The justification was that maybe god knew that his family was about to convert to atheism or another religion and so they need to die now while they are still Christians before they become corrupt. Or else maybe god knew that something worse than death was in store for them. Basically he thought if god was commanding it, then it must be for a good reason and was in his family's best interest. Yes, I know this is some messed up thinking but that's what Christianity does to you.

 

There is a possibility that your husband felt that was the only safe answer he can give because he doesn't want god to overhear him saying he would refuse god's orders. I don't see it as a matter of love for god that would make someone obey this sort of command. It's more an act of duress. The fear of god is greater than the love of family.

 

I hope you can get through this. I haven't really experienced this sort of situation so I can't really give any good advice. Try to remember that his mind is being hijacked by some nonsense brainwashing if that makes it easier.

 

 

 

To me the reason for marriage is you are marring your "1 true love". Isn't that what a marriage is suppose to be about? So, in the view point of the bible God trumps all! Everyone should just marry god than and forget about anyone else on this earth. God is the king of jealously. No others before him.
 

 

There is a part in the Bible recommending that you don't get married. Marriage is for people too weak to take this path. Only get married if you absolutely must because it's preferable to having sex while unmarried.

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Christians have been trained to answer that question in that manner. I would always expect that to be the answer so I wouldn't ask. They usually have some extra explanation of "God would never ask me to do that though." Or else that if god ever commanded such a thing it would be because he has some super good divine reason that makes sense only to god but god didn't bother to share.

 

I remember a man saying he would kill his whole family if god told him to because if god told him to then it's the right thing to do. The justification was that maybe god knew that his family was about to convert to atheism or another religion and so they need to die now while they are still Christians before they become corrupt. Or else maybe god knew that something worse than death was in store for them. Basically he thought if god was commanding it, then it must be for a good reason and was in his family's best interest. Yes, I know this is some messed up thinking but that's what Christianity does to you.

 

There is a possibility that your husband felt that was the only safe answer he can give because he doesn't want god to overhear him saying he would refuse god's orders. I don't see it as a matter of love for god that would make someone obey this sort of command. It's more an act of duress. The fear of god is greater than the love of family.

 

I hope you can get through this. I haven't really experienced this sort of situation so I can't really give any good advice. Try to remember that his mind is being hijacked by some nonsense brainwashing if that makes it easier.

 

 

 

To me the reason for marriage is you are marring your "1 true love". Isn't that what a marriage is suppose to be about? So, in the view point of the bible God trumps all! Everyone should just marry god than and forget about anyone else on this earth. God is the king of jealously. No others before him.

 

 

There is a part in the Bible recommending that you don't get married. Marriage is for people too weak to take this path. Only get married if you absolutely must because it's preferable to having sex while unmarried.

So the church offers a means to this? The bible recommends not to but the church offers a means to it. How much sense does that make? To me, how can you ever be totally faithful to someone who tells you if they had to they would kill you?

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I don't comment on here very often because I'm not totally through my crisis of faith.  I have one foot in and one foot out so to speak, and have not earned the right to be considered an exchristian. That being said, I just have to vent somewhere safe, so please bear with me. I apologize in advance if this becomes incoherent and rambling.

 

My husband and I were at a cabin in the mountains earlier this week, and somehow or another we got on the subject of God commanding Abraham to sacrifice Isaac.  I asked him if God ever asked him to sacrifice me would he obey? My husband said that he would hope that he'd have the faith to obey.  I said, "So in other words, if God told you to sacrifice me you'd lay me out on a slab of rock and slice me from stem to stern and then burn me?" He said that if God stood right in front of him and told him to do it he would have to obey because even though he loves me, he loves God more. I felt like I was hit with a ton of bricks. When he realized how hurt I was he tried to back paddle, but the damage was already done.  We've been married for almost 32 years, and I've always loved him with all of my heart, and I thought he felt the same.  The reason I haven't deconverted totally is because I truly love my husband and I didn't want to devastate him or my dearest friends and family who are all staunch unwavering believers. I can't imagine having to start over at my age.

 

The sadness between us right now is so thick you could cut it with a knife.  My cognitive dissonance is so deep I feel like I'm on the verge of insanity.

 

I wish I never would have opened my big mouth and asked this question.  I just had to ask it didn't I?  Thanks for allowing me to vent.

 

P.S.: He then asked me what I would do if God told me to sacrifice him.  I said I'd burn in hell rather than hurt him.

P.S.S.:  Christian marriage manuals should list this as the number 1 question you never ask your spouse.

 

I am so sorry about that. sad.png

I don't think that your husband will ever kill you. The pain you feel might come from hearing that he didn't value you as much as you valued him, and it is a very painful thing to be told something like that. I hope someday he realizes what kind of stupidity it was. Maybe you can slowly lead the way for him to deconvert. In the meantime, this site is a good place for you to vent.

I was in a similar situation before and I cried many times because of it. It is definitely not an easy situation to deal with.

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People commit murder much too frequently because God/Satan/The Voices told them to. If your husband is not insane but merely deluded by the Big Christian Lie, the murderous episode will never come up. Still, he has a fucked up system of values, he loves an imaginary entity more than he does you, and personally I wouldn't put up with it, and I'm 66 years old. Talk about starting over!

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To me the reason for marriage is you are marring your "1 true love". Isn't that what a marriage is suppose to be about? So, in the view point of the bible God trumps all! Everyone should just marry god than and forget about anyone else on this earth. God is the king of jealously. No others before him.

 

There is a part in the Bible recommending that you don't get married. Marriage is for people too weak to take this path. Only get married if you absolutely must because it's preferable to having sex while unmarried.

So the church offers a means to this? The bible recommends not to but the church offers a means to it. How much sense does that make? To me, how can you ever be totally faithful to someone who tells you if they had to they would kill you?

 

 

The sects that promote total celibacy always die out because they can't get enough asexuals to join. And nobody has any kids to brainwash to keep it going. So the church just decides to ignore these teachings like to ignore so many others.

 

 

 

 

But fear not. Even if you do get married, you can still be a disciple of Jesus so long as you carry enough hate in your heart for yourself and your whole family.

 

 

Luke 14:26

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple."

 

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To me the reason for marriage is you are marring your "1 true love". Isn't that what a marriage is suppose to be about? So, in the view point of the bible God trumps all! Everyone should just marry god than and forget about anyone else on this earth. God is the king of jealously. No others before him.

 

 

There is a part in the Bible recommending that you don't get married. Marriage is for people too weak to take this path. Only get married if you absolutely must because it's preferable to having sex while unmarried.

So the church offers a means to this? The bible recommends not to but the church offers a means to it. How much sense does that make? To me, how can you ever be totally faithful to someone who tells you if they had to they would kill you?

 

The sects that promote total celibacy always die out because they can't get enough asexuals to join. And nobody has any kids to brainwash to keep it going. So the church just decides to ignore these teachings like to ignore so many others.

 

 

 

 

But fear not. Even if you do get married, you can still be a disciple of Jesus so long as you carry enough hate in your heart for yourself and your whole family.

 

 

Luke 14:26

“If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple."

Isn't that just crazy how all the answers were right in front of our face but yet refused to see them? What a joke. Too bad it isn't a funny one.

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I'm sorry that happened.

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So sorry this has happened. It can be very devastating, for sure. My wife once told me she'd choose her imaginary friend over me if it ever came down to it (not exactly sure what that means except that she loves her religion more than a real, tangible, person). So, I just say that to show that I can somewhat relate. But also understand that sdelsolray said, this is their dogma talking.. It's what they're supposed to say and honestly they could be lying to you and themselves in order to please their imaginary friend.

 

Remember, as a Christian, there's ideas that you're contractually obligated to accept. God being 1st in your life is #1 and everything, absolutely everything else in life, follows behind.

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Sorry this happened to you and thanks for sharing. It'll help just to know that others are listening and empathize with your situation. First of all, you know that your hubby would (probably) NEVER do that right? If he started hearing voices telling him to sacrifice you, I'm sure he'd be diagnosed quickly with some form of mental disorder.

 

That being said, you are going to discover more and more scenarios that will shock and sadden you as you continue to awaken from the drunken nightmare that is religious indoctrination. Does your husband have any idea that you are deconverting?

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Guest Furball

 

P.S.: He then asked me what I would do if God told me to sacrifice him.  I said I'd burn in hell rather than hurt him.

 

What was his reply to this? Did your comment about this make him re-think his towards you? 

 

P.S. No need to apologize, that is what we're here for, to help you and anyone else who needs it. I hope everything gets cleared up. -Cat

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Thanks everyone for your kind thoughts and encouragement.  You have all gone (or are going) through the process of losing your faith and your words are supported by the pain of your own journey.

 

Burny, I've shared with my husband many of the doubts and questions I'm having.  He knows I'm searching, but I don't think he realizes the depth to which I've "fallen."  I've kept much of my (now 4-year) faith struggle to myself.  I have no desire to pull anyone else away from their faith.  I know how comforting faith can be in a world that can sometimes be so raw.  I wouldn't wish a crisis of faith on my worst enemy.

 

Florduh, I'll be 62 this year (there I said it), and I admire your courage to start over at 66. I wish I shared your bravery, but I'm a coward and crave security.

 

Ceiling Cat, my husband didn't have much to say when I told him that.

 

I think my husband is grieving because he knows that he hurt me.  He's grieving because he wishes that he could take back the words that he said but he can't.  He's grieving because he senses that I'm losing my faith and there's nothing he can do about it.  He's grieving because (as he put it) his words pointed me away from the grace and love of God and instead pointed me to the wrath of God. 

 

Yes, I'm grieving over what he said about hypothetically  sacrificing me, but I'm also grieving that the faith we've shared so fervently throughout our marriage is dying on my part.  Our faith has been the glue, the thing we were passionate about together.  Serving God is was what we based our marriage on; what we both wanted when we said our vows.  I'm grieving that I'm letting down the man I love.  God I'm a wreck.

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Yes, I'm grieving over what he said about hypothetically sacrificing me, but I'm also grieving that the faith we've shared so fervently throughout our marriage is dying on my part. Our faith has been the glue, the thing we were passionate about together. Serving God is was what we based our marriage on; what we both wanted when we said our vows. I'm grieving that I'm letting down the man I love. God I'm a wreck.

Losing one's faith, or deconversion, is difficult enough on its own. But when only one of the couple who previously shared their faith as the "glue" of the marriage begins losing their faith and the other hangs on, it can make life miserable for both. That common element is gone. The one losing faith may see the Christian spouse as being unknowingly enslaved to a false and harmful religion while the Christian spouse sees the one losing faith as succumbing to Saran's lies and being in danger of hell's fire. Sometimes the two can find a compromise. I hope you and your husband can work it out between yourselves.

 

Concerning his saying he would kill you if God ordered it, I agree with the others who said he was just spouting what he thought was the correct Christian response about having total faith and loving God more than anything. He did not consider Christian theology that holds that Jesus was the last and perfect sacrifice and that God requires no sacrifices ever again. And that is what God asked of Abraham - to make Isaac a burnt offering, a sacrifice. And remember, God ended up stopping Abraham from doing it. Tell your husband to study his Bible a little more carefully before giving such a ridiculous answer as he gave to you. From a purely Christian theological standpoint, his answer should have been: "No, of course I would never kill you even if I thought God was ordering me to do it. Don't be silly."

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Thanks everyone for your kind thoughts and encouragement.  You have all gone (or are going) through the process of losing your faith and your words are supported by the pain of your own journey.

 

Burny, I've shared with my husband many of the doubts and questions I'm having.  He knows I'm searching, but I don't think he realizes the depth to which I've "fallen."  I've kept much of my (now 4-year) faith struggle to myself.  I have no desire to pull anyone else away from their faith.  I know how comforting faith can be in a world that can sometimes be so raw.  I wouldn't wish a crisis of faith on my worst enemy.

 

Florduh, I'll be 62 this year (there I said it), and I admire your courage to start over at 66. I wish I shared your bravery, but I'm a coward and crave security.

 

Ceiling Cat, my husband didn't have much to say when I told him that.

 

I think my husband is grieving because he knows that he hurt me.  He's grieving because he wishes that he could take back the words that he said but he can't.  He's grieving because he senses that I'm losing my faith and there's nothing he can do about it.  He's grieving because (as he put it) his words pointed me away from the grace and love of God and instead pointed me to the wrath of God. 

 

Yes, I'm grieving over what he said about hypothetically  sacrificing me, but I'm also grieving that the faith we've shared so fervently throughout our marriage is dying on my part.  Our faith has been the glue, the thing we were passionate about together.  Serving God is was what we based our marriage on; what we both wanted when we said our vows.  I'm grieving that I'm letting down the man I love.  God I'm a wreck.

I can totally relate to that Birdie. This very question was what planted a seed in my head years ago and i totally understand. I think you are a very couragous person for trying to work this out and not just sweeping it under the rug. Like others have said we are here for you if you need to talk. You are not alone.

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Birdwatcher ((hug)) and welcome to Ex-c...the place where all doubters of the bible land up. My heart bleeds for you right now because I can so relate to the pain you are in. I thought my whole world crumbled on me and it actually did. The worldview I believed all my life came crashing down and changed a whole lot of things for me. In case you want to read another 'older' testimony, here's mine four years ago at 56. I'm now 60 and couldn't make it without ex-c. That's why I continue to come here and read as much as I can..to learn how to fit into the world as a 'non-believer. http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/#.VTF5UCHBzRY

 

 

There was a point in my life where all I could see were the  positive benefits of Christianity. I always tried to turn a blind eye to the horrible things in the bible. I hated that god commanded so many horrific things but was always told that god was a 'just' god and had his reasons. The positive side of having a man love god more than the spouse had many benefits for me. He wouldn't cheat. He wouldn't lie. He would treat me like royalty because that's what god would want a husband to do. I wouldn't look at the negative sides of a man who loved god more than me. I would be fully jealous as a woman!!

 

God had to sacrifice his own son to finally give us forgiveness? That's how stupid the god of the universe is!! He couldn't think of a better plan??? So asking to sacrifice your own spouse to prove to the almighty stupid god is that your faith is strong is completely OK. Unfortunately, we have all believed this. All of us had been sucked in to the foolish doctrine of christianity.

 

This will be an eye opener for you and your husband. You will probably have no choice but to face up to these facts and talk about this openly. There is another way. You can brush this under the rug and go on pretending but I'm afraid you know too much now. You must take one small step at a time and read here as often as you can and we can  help to guide you along the way.

 

I'm 60 now and fully prepared to leave my husband if he hurt me in any way, shape or form. It takes time to get to this point. Hopefully, with some guidance, we can help you find a way to live a peaceful life without the breaking up of your very long relationship.  Many people do learn to live with the differences in their marriage, if nobody is getting hurt....... Keep posting all your concerns and fears.

 

((hug))

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I'm really sorry for the pain this has caused you. I have heard very similar things from loved ones.

 

When I was a Christian, one thing I could not wrap my head around was the fact that I was expected to never, ever deny my faith, even if my loved ones were tortured and killed in front of my eyes. I used to ask fellow Christians about it, and would get the type of answer your husband said: "I would hope at that moment, God would give me the strength." It's extraordinarily bizarre, when you think about what exactly it is they are asking God for the strength to do. Asking for strength to continue to allow people to torture their family members?

 

This is the kind of thing that just makes me wish for religion to be wiped off the planet.

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Damn. That's rough. And yet I don't think that your husband responded to your question irrationally, at least on a Christian worldview. If Christianity is true, then he has an obligation to behave as God commands. Moreover, on this view, his commitment to God must always supersede his commitment to you. This is regrettable, but it is true.

 

 

I wish I never would have opened my big mouth and asked this question.  I just had to ask it didn't I?  Thanks for allowing me to vent.

 

I can only respond to this by quoting Joe Abercrombie (a favourite author of mine): "The truth is like salt. Men want to taste a little, but too much makes everyone sick."

 

I truly hope things work out for you.

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Birdwatcher ((hug)) and welcome to Ex-c...the place where all doubters of the bible land up. My heart bleeds for you right now because I can so relate to the pain you are in. I thought my whole world crumbled on me and it actually did. The worldview I believed all my life came crashing down and changed a whole lot of things for me. In case you want to read another 'older' testimony, here's mine four years ago at 56. I'm now 60 and couldn't make it without ex-c. That's why I continue to come here and read as much as I can..to learn how to fit into the world as a 'non-believer. http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/44259-please-forgive-me/#.VTF5UCHBzRY

 

 

There was a point in my life where all I could see were the  positive benefits of Christianity. I always tried to turn a blind eye to the horrible things in the bible. I hated that god commanded so many horrific things but was always told that god was a 'just' god and had his reasons. The positive side of having a man love god more than the spouse had many benefits for me. He wouldn't cheat. He wouldn't lie. He would treat me like royalty because that's what god would want a husband to do. I wouldn't look at the negative sides of a man who loved god more than me. I would be fully jealous as a woman!!

 

God had to sacrifice his own son to finally give us forgiveness? That's how stupid the god of the universe is!! He couldn't think of a better plan??? So asking to sacrifice your own spouse to prove to the almighty stupid god is that your faith is strong is completely OK. Unfortunately, we have all believed this. All of us had been sucked in to the foolish doctrine of christianity.

 

This will be an eye opener for you and your husband. You will probably have no choice but to face up to these facts and talk about this openly. There is another way. You can brush this under the rug and go on pretending but I'm afraid you know too much now. You must take one small step at a time and read here as often as you can and we can  help to guide you along the way.

 

I'm 60 now and fully prepared to leave my husband if he hurt me in any way, shape or form. It takes time to get to this point. Hopefully, with some guidance, we can help you find a way to live a peaceful life without the breaking up of your very long relationship.  Many people do learn to live with the differences in their marriage, if nobody is getting hurt....... Keep posting all your concerns and fears.

 

((hug))

 

Thanks Margee for your encouragement and words of wisdom.  Your letter to God is so beautiful and so right on.  It truly expresses the hurt, the anger, the disillusionment, the pain, the grief, the despair, and the longing that one feels as they realize they are losing their faith. Hugs to you.

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Hi Birdwatcher, I feel so sad at your story. And like others, I am thinking that your husband's words were ideology but in the end, not his heart.

 

Even as a Christian, I thought about that Isaac story. I always thought that if I had such a presentiment from what I thought was God, I would assume that it was my own mind playing tricks before I would ever think it was God.

 

I just suspect he doesn't really believe what he is saying. But I'm not there and I don't know him...

 

Anyway, I am guessing that there are new chapters awaiting the two of you. You've already hoed a long row together. It's not over.

 

Hugs, f

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Hi Birdwatcher,

 

This makes me sad. As others have noted, this is a typical religious response, probably not meant to be hurtful to you. It doesn't change what happened, but it's good to remember that if someone believes Christianity is true, it really is the right response. I mean, if GOD tells you to do something, you do it, even if it seems wrong. Especially if it seems wrong, because that's when the believer can really prove what a HUGE faith he or she has. (Kierkegaard's "teleological suspension of the ethical," where "no sacrifice was too hard when God required it").

 

I know none of this helps with the raw emotions of the moment, but hopefully in time you'll see that your husband's response wasn't meant to hurt. It's conditioned on the disease of religion, the belief that what god demands is always required. I hope things get better for you.

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Your husband is simply mouthing a script that he has been given.  He doesn't really mean it, and he is not a murderer and is not prepared to be a murderer.  If a person told him to murder you, your husband would infer that such a person was Satan rather than Yahweh -- because people believe whatever is most convenient for them to believe.  It is not convenient for him to murder you, and would never be so, no matter who told him to do so.  But it is also not convenient for him to deconvert -- which is why he is still reading from the Christian script.  Don't take it personally;  forgive the simple-minded man.  He did not mean what he could recognize as harm.

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Birdie, hugs to you. I agree with what others have said.  Have you considered seeing a secular marriage counselor or therapist together?  It might help, at least to get some things out in the open in a managed environment.  I wish you all the best.

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