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[waitingongod]

A1, try a little experiment.

 

Get a way from all this evidence this and believe that and definitions of this and that.

 

For 1 week, I want you to close your bible and not pray to your selected deity.  Separate yourself from what you believe to be true.

 

Now, at the end of that one week, ask yourself, what's changed?

 

It's likely everything is still the same, just a week later.  Your life didn't suddenly collapse.

 

Now take it a step further.  For week 2, pick up the quran, read it from cover to cover and pray to Allah.

 

At the end of week 2, ask yourself, what's changed?  

 

Do you now suddenly believe in Allah?  Did Allah suddenly create the world?  Is Allah merely a different representation of the same god?

 

Continue this for several weeks.  Pick a new religious belief, read only their works, meditate, pray to their god(s).

 

At the end of each week, you'll realize you're still the same you (just far more knowledgeable).

 

Now you can make an honest decision of what's true/not true and what works for you, if anything.

[mymistake]

I just Dont get I tho....why do u want my reasons for believing only to debunk it to the ground like u did everything else?

 

1000 of years. No reason has EVER been sufficient

 

I dont see how it would be productive.

 

Unless u take me reasons and not debunk them or criticize them or do judge them and just see me reasons as a documentary or biography of my life.

 

Will everyone else adhere to this.

 

If so I just may do it.

 

It would create a separate topic because its very through read. Seeing how I would be posting nonbilical and biblical sources and reason for every sentence I say to show it wasn't feeling or that I made it up.

 

It would also take me 2weeks to assemble it. It would be broken into parts in a very simple layout but with thorough non christian sources and Christian sources together best of both worlds

 

It would be the most detailed I have ever answered someone for the reason I believe. There somethings u just can't say in one sentence. My many reasons for believing is so in depth it would make my head explode if I try to put it in a few senttences.

 

 

As a favor to you I will not debunk them unless you ask.  Fair enough?

[duderonomy]

 

My many reasons for believing is so in depth it would make my head explode if I try to put it in a few senttences. 

 

By all means, take your time and do it properly. I'm always curious why people believe what they do because so many admit that they simply choose to believe. 

 

 

I agree with you Florduh. I'd like to read what Steak Sauce has to say. I don't care if it took him two months to assemble it. But it sounds like he wants to have his say and not have his ideas debunked or criticized at all. Where would he put such a post on this site?

Certainly he can't expect our little group to not weigh in?

[disillusioned]

I just Dont get I tho....why do u want my reasons for believing only to debunk it to the ground like u did everything else?

 

1000 of years. No reason has EVER been sufficient

 

I dont see how it would be productive.

 

Unless u take me reasons and not debunk them or criticize them or do judge them and just see me reasons as a documentary or biography of my life.

 

Will everyone else adhere to this.

 

If so I just may do it.

 

It would create a separate topic because its very through read. Seeing how I would be posting nonbilical and biblical sources and reason for every sentence I say to show it wasn't feeling or that I made it up.

 

It would also take me 2weeks to assemble it. It would be broken into parts in a very simple layout but with thorough non christian sources and Christian sources together best of both worlds

 

It would be the most detailed I have ever answered someone for the reason I believe. There somethings u just can't say in one sentence. My many reasons for believing is so in depth it would make my head explode if I try to put it in a few senttences.

 

But A1, didn't you say in the OP that you were trying to stop believing? That you were open to listening to anything? It seems to me that if this is true, then surely you ought to be open to reasonable criticism of your own experiences. Perhaps you were not truly sincere when you said you were not blind.

 

You are right about one thing: in over 2000 years, no argument or piece of evidence has been convincing. I think that's rather telling. Wouldn't you agree? What is it that makes you think your personal experiences are worth more than all of the evidence and arguments that some of the best minds in the world have put together?

 

Take your time writing them if you wish, but I would very much like to read your reasons for believing. I will not commit to withholding criticism however. I'll be nice about it (inasmuch as it lies within my power), but if you really want to be a critical thinker then it seems to me that you should welcome dissenting opinions. This is not a waste of time; it is the essence of honest inquiry.

[GraphicsGuy]

My many reasons for believing is so in depth it would make my head explode if I try to put it in a few senttences.

 

I would pay money to see that.

[StJeffTheIncomprehensible]

I just Dont get I tho....why do u want my reasons for believing only to debunk it to the ground like u did everything else?

 

1000 of years. No reason has EVER been sufficient

 

I dont see how it would be productive.

 

Unless u take me reasons and not debunk them or criticize them or do judge them and just see me reasons as a documentary or biography of my life.

 

Will everyone else adhere to this.

 

If so I just may do it.

 

It would create a separate topic because its very through read. Seeing how I would be posting nonbilical and biblical sources and reason for every sentence I say to show it wasn't feeling or that I made it up.

 

It would also take me 2weeks to assemble it. It would be broken into parts in a very simple layout but with thorough non christian sources and Christian sources together best of both worlds

 

It would be the most detailed I have ever answered someone for the reason I believe. There somethings u just can't say in one sentence. My many reasons for believing is so in depth it would make my head explode if I try to put it in a few senttences.

 

A1, you can do whatever you like. I really am curious, and would like to know more, but if you'd rather not state your reasons for why you believe, that's fine. If you don't think it would be productive, that's fine.

 

I want to say just a few more things, and you can take it however you like. You came here and started a thread. In that original post you said:

 

Soo I was wondering if there something wrong with me. No matter how hard I try I can't STOP believing? Am I brainwashed? Idk if that's possible because I came to Christianity on my own not a preacher or church or even a bible.

 

Am I deceived? I don't think so i had no teacher or mentor for christianity so no one taught me but myself.

 

This is why I'm so curious, and why I'm pressing you for answers. No preacher. No church. No teacher or mentor. Not even a bible. You taught yourself Christianity. And so you believe. Why? How? This is an amazing thing, A1, nearly unheard of since the Apostle Paul made the same claim in the 1st Century. I'd be fascinated to know how it came about.

 

It seems to me that you wouldn't need two weeks to lay it all out for us. You can leave out all of the evidences that came to you after the fact--the Transcendental Argument for God, logical absolutes, all of that fancy philosophical stuff. You are using these to justify the belief you already possess, and that's not that interesting. I just want to know about the beginning, when you went from no-faith to faith.

 

There you are, sitting by yourself, maybe eating a little snack, just minding your business, no bible or preacher or church, and  . . . ???? Continue the story for us!

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Im sorry i should rephrase Well its not that I Dont want my reasons debunked because they already have been. ROFL.

 

I take that back I don't care if you ask questions or critize. I Dont want to feel like I have to limit the you all

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is...

I'm not giving my reasons for the sole purpose of proving I'm right and your wrong

I wouldn't be laying out my reasons because I'm trying to convince or convert

 

I would be laying out. Full reason why I believe as a documentary or biography of my life.

 

So like martin Luther king cheated on his wife it was part of his life I may have something to say about that but because its part if his bio I would look at it as a part of him I didn't know and was curious

 

I guess that's how I want y'all to look at mine.

 

It's not fair for me to ask u not to say anything. I shouldnt do that im sorry. But thats not whatni was actually trying to convey i hav hard time expresing myself at times.

 

I never want to limit anyone and I'm always open to learn and grow. Even if I learn slowly. So no you know what Dont hold back. Just understand my purpose isn't to change convince trick or convert anyone.

 

Just simply show u a part of my life.

 

The only adjustments I would vote for is that

 

I just I rather have a discussion not a debate. Debating is about WHO is right and discussion is about WHAT is right.

 

I love u guys and girls. Even after freethinkerz has kicked me in the balls and orbit has turned down my roses for asking them out.

 

As a whole i truly do appreciate being here. And want to let y'all know that even tho it seems like it. Many things all have said have not been in vain.

 

I learned that unless I can prove a God exist.... Then ANY event or action could logically never be attributed to Him in the first place.

 

I learned that my mistake and redprofessor thinks they can beat me in a humor contest but have failed.

 

Ha! Kidding they guys are funny as hell. Even tho hell isnt very funny. But u know what i means. You guys are great. no seriously tho I learned many thing from u guys.

I even played atheist advocate not long ago when a Christian tried to tell me he saw. Ghost in swamp water at night. Although I believe in supernatural I learned from u guys to look st things objectivly. Taking off my Christian glasses

 

I found out that there is glowing lights above swamps sometimes and its not a GHOST but its due to bioluminescent.

 

The Christian called me a hater of Supernatural and God not knowing I was a Christian myself. When I was simply trying to apply logic and research in a new claim I never heard before. This is sad because not only did he assume I wasn't Christian but he was condescending.

 

To me thatsba direct slap in the face to his own beliefs.

 

Well anyway. I will consider it thx for all the encouragement. I learned more from you guys then my own Christian friends because they soon closed off to new ideas because the fear if being wrong.

 

I rather be wrong and Heartbroken than pretend I have the truth with a smile and I'm living a lie

[FarflungWanderer]

That's a good attitude to take, 1A.

 

Someone once said (and I'm paraphrasing) that one should always search for the truth because it is right, but one cannot expect that said truth will make them happy.

 

Regardless, we're all here for you, and we want to help. We don't intend to judge, and we certainly don't intend to push you away. Please, if you feel comfortable, post up your testimony, tell us your story.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

That's a good attitude to take, 1A.

 

Someone once said (and I'm paraphrasing) that one should always search for the truth because it is right, but one cannot expect that said truth will make them happy.

 

Regardless, we're all here for you, and we want to help. We don't intend to judge, and we certainly don't intend to push you away. Please, if you feel comfortable, post up your testimony, tell us your story.

thx i appreciate that one thing i dont understand tho, i had an atheist tell i was slightly different from other christians, i said i dont see how, i been saying the same things everyone else lol. thats been debated for centuries. Nothing new. im not he magic christian. so idk what he meant, TO this DAY i have no clue what he was talking about, i just be myself, seek truth i admit when im wrong, apologize if i offend, and these a something any human should do.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

how scared would i be if....im stuck in this christian state, as if i could never get out. if belief is not a choice and i was wrong then im screwed. thats reverse pascals wager lol

[EyesOpened]

Hey A1

 

I am interesting in hearing your story and discussing it. Sounds pretty interesting, especially if it leads to the reason about how you got to God without any help. From what i have seen, pretty much everyone on here is very fair.

 

I am sure there can be a friendly forum discussion about this considering you are just telling your story. I think what gets people is when someone says their story is the only way and it is the right way, lol.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Hey A1

 

I am interesting in hearing your story and discussing it. Sounds pretty interesting, especially if it leads to the reason about how you got to God without any help. From what i have seen, pretty much everyone on here is very fair.

 

I am sure there can be a friendly forum discussion about this considering you are just telling your story. I think what gets people is when someone says their story is the only way and it is the right way, lol.

tru lol

 

well i will work on it. and assemple a story with sources.

I mean tehcnically i told my story before just click on my profile and look at my very first posts.

it talked about my reasons

 

but what i want to do is talked about it deeper and be more specific which is something i havent done before and talk about why i REMAIN a christian, which is different from how i BECAME a christian. but i will tackled both

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Atheist.... Dude why are u so ignorant thats not evidence for a God u suck. How does logical absolutes bhave ANYTHING to do with God????? Its non sequitur.

 

A1...:See bro...I already u already heard them all. Your wasting ur time. Asking me what my evidence is.

Alllll NY responses WILL NOT BEbSEEN as evidence... Please get that thru your scientific predisposition... Oh wait u can't because science has a standard of evidence that limited by itself and can't test anything outside of itself.

 

Aw poor science.

 

My understanding of the scientific method is that it can only be used to test things that are real, which includes everything that exists, and is a much wider set of things than I think you are referring to.  I don't see how the method can be used to test things that are not real.

 

I just I rather have a discussion not a debate. Debating is about WHO is right and discussion is about WHAT is right.

 

I disagree.  When I debate, it is about WHAT is most supported by the evidence, not WHO is debating.  This is the inquisitorial rather than the adversarial approach. I think you are confusing the terms... discussion = / = pleasant conversation and debate = / = rudeness and personal attacks.  Both discussion and debate can be pleasant or unpleasant.  But in my world, solid arguments do not need personal attacks to support them.  When I sometimes stray into personal attack, it's not because my argument is lacking, it's because it's being ignored and I get to the point of "whatever" and just want to have fun.

I love u guys and girls. Even after freethinkerz has kicked me in the balls and orbit has turned down my roses for asking them out.

 

See above, lol.  I like the new approach you are taking in this thread... you are open to considering our arguments and ideas now (so far, lol).  I think this means your balls are safe at the moment

As a whole i truly do appreciate being here. And want to let y'all know that even tho it seems like it. Many things all have said have not been in vain.

 

Thank you.  Most of us are here to learn and to help others.

I learned that unless I can prove a God exist.... Then ANY event or action could logically never be attributed to Him in the first place.

 

You got it.

 

I learned that my mistake and redprofessor thinks they can beat me in a humor contest but have failed.

 

Ha! Kidding they guys are funny as hell.

 

MM and TRP are a constant source of humour and sound argumentation/education.  This is why I upvote most of their posts that I read.

Well anyway. I will consider it thx for all the encouragement. I learned more from you guys then my own Christian friends because they soon closed off to new ideas because the fear if being wrong.

 

I rather be wrong and Heartbroken than pretend I have the truth with a smile and I'm living a lie

 

This is the essence of why many of us deconverted, and it also points to the heartbreak many deconverting people go through.  For me, searching for the truth became more important than how my belief in god made me feel.

 

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

Hey A1

 

I am interesting in hearing your story and discussing it. Sounds pretty interesting, especially if it leads to the reason about how you got to God without any help. From what i have seen, pretty much everyone on here is very fair.

 

I am sure there can be a friendly forum discussion about this considering you are just telling your story. I think what gets people is when someone says their story is the only way and it is the right way, lol.

 

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/64323-christiantyatheismnow-you-see-menow-you-dont/

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

 

Jeff

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/64323-christiantyatheismnow-you-see-menow-you-dont/

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

 

Atheist.... Dude why are u so ignorant thats not evidence for a God u suck. How does logical absolutes bhave ANYTHING to do with God????? Its non sequitur.

 

A1...:See bro...I already u already heard them all. Your wasting ur time. Asking me what my evidence is.

Alllll NY responses WILL NOT BEbSEEN as evidence... Please get that thru your scientific predisposition... Oh wait u can't because science has a standard of evidence that limited by itself and can't test anything outside of itself.

 

Aw poor science.

 

My understanding of the scientific method is that it can only be used to test things that are real, which includes everything that exists, and is a much wider set of things than I think you are referring to.  I don't see how the method can be used to test things that are not real.

 

I just I rather have a discussion not a debate. Debating is about WHO is right and discussion is about WHAT is right.

 

I disagree.  When I debate, it is about WHAT is most supported by the evidence, not WHO is debating.  This is the inquisitorial rather than the adversarial approach. I think you are confusing the terms... discussion = / = pleasant conversation and debate = / = rudeness and personal attacks.  Both discussion and debate can be pleasant or unpleasant.  But in my world, solid arguments do not need personal attacks to support them.  When I sometimes stray into personal attack, it's not because my argument is lacking, it's because it's being ignored and I get to the point of "whatever" and just want to have fun.

I love u guys and girls. Even after freethinkerz has kicked me in the balls and orbit has turned down my roses for asking them out.

 

See above, lol.  I like the new approach you are taking in this thread... you are open to considering our arguments and ideas now (so far, lol).  I think this means your balls are safe at the moment

As a whole i truly do appreciate being here. And want to let y'all know that even tho it seems like it. Many things all have said have not been in vain.

 

Thank you.  Most of us are here to learn and to help others.

I learned that unless I can prove a God exist.... Then ANY event or action could logically never be attributed to Him in the first place.

 

You got it.

 

I learned that my mistake and redprofessor thinks they can beat me in a humor contest but have failed.

 

Ha! Kidding they guys are funny as hell.

 

MM and TRP are a constant source of humour and sound argumentation/education.  This is why I upvote most of their posts that I read.

Well anyway. I will consider it thx for all the encouragement. I learned more from you guys then my own Christian friends because they soon closed off to new ideas because the fear if being wrong.

 

I rather be wrong and Heartbroken than pretend I have the truth with a smile and I'm living a lie

 

This is the essence of why many of us deconverted, and it also points to the heartbreak many deconverting people go through.  For me, searching for the truth became more important than how my belief in god made me feel.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank u so much for Sharing Free

[mymistake]

how scared would i be if....im stuck in this christian state, as if i could never get out. if belief is not a choice and i was wrong then im screwed. thats reverse pascals wager lol

 

 

I don't get it.  One post you sound like you are tired of having religion.  The next post you go

 

back to your old apologetics.  Are you torn regarding your religion?  Are there times you think

 

you would be better off without it?

[StJeffTheIncomprehensible]

 

 

Jeff

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/64323-christiantyatheismnow-you-see-menow-you-dont/

 

 

Thanks, A1. This was as fascinating as I had imagined it would be. There are some things I find confusing. I didn't see much there as to why and how you converted, what reasons prompted you to leave non-belief to embrace Christianity. The story just jumps from before to after without speaking much of the process in between. But I'm not prepared to bring much to this post by way of criticism. Be well, try to learn as much as you can with an open mind, and question everything.

[Fweethawt]

how scared would i be if....im stuck in this christian state, as if i could never get out. if belief is not a choice and i was wrong then im screwed. thats reverse pascals wager lol

If these are the types of things you think about, you should probably be scared anyway.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

 

 

 

Jeff

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/64323-christiantyatheismnow-you-see-menow-you-dont/

 

 

Thanks, A1. This was as fascinating as I had imagined it would be. There are some things I find confusing. I didn't see much there as to why and how you converted, what reasons prompted you to leave non-belief to embrace Christianity. The story just jumps from before to after without speaking much of the process in between. But I'm not prepared to bring much to this post by way of criticism. Be well, try to learn as much as you can with an open mind, and question everything.

 

 

 

I know that wasnt my story i was going to post i havent wrote it yet, i just linked that topic because it was just another part of me

 

the stor yi will be posting in 2 or 3 weeks or so will ave actualy non biblical sources and bilibcal sources and actually have a reason for my conversion and what made me do it

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

 

how scared would i be if....im stuck in this christian state, as if i could never get out. if belief is not a choice and i was wrong then im screwed. thats reverse pascals wager lol

If these are the types of things you think about, you should probably be scared anyway.

 

i was just doing comic relief for a reverse pascal, but i sucked at it my delivery.

[1AcceptingAThiest1]

 

how scared would i be if....im stuck in this christian state, as if i could never get out. if belief is not a choice and i was wrong then im screwed. thats reverse pascals wager lol

 

 

I don't get it.  One post you sound like you are tired of having religion.  The next post you go

 

back to your old apologetics.  Are you torn regarding your religion?  Are there times you think

 

you would be better off without it?

 

i was being silly with comic relief, i was trying to deliver a reverse pascal, but it was lame. dont mind me. i wasnt using apologetics i was using satire i dont actually believe that

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

 

how scared would i be if....im stuck in this christian state, as if i could never get out. if belief is not a choice and i was wrong then im screwed. thats reverse pascals wager lol

 

 

I don't get it.  One post you sound like you are tired of having religion.  The next post you go

 

back to your old apologetics.  Are you torn regarding your religion?  Are there times you think

 

you would be better off without it?

 

i was being silly with comic relief, i was trying to deliver a reverse pascal, but it was lame. dont mind me. i wasnt using apologetics i was using satire i dont actually believe that

 

I think MM was referring to a pattern involving more than one post, but I could be wrong on that.

[FarflungWanderer]

 

That's a good attitude to take, 1A.

 

Someone once said (and I'm paraphrasing) that one should always search for the truth because it is right, but one cannot expect that said truth will make them happy.

 

Regardless, we're all here for you, and we want to help. We don't intend to judge, and we certainly don't intend to push you away. Please, if you feel comfortable, post up your testimony, tell us your story.

thx i appreciate that one thing i dont understand tho, i had an atheist tell i was slightly different from other christians, i said i dont see how, i been saying the same things everyone else lol. thats been debated for centuries. Nothing new. im not he magic christian. so idk what he meant, TO this DAY i have no clue what he was talking about, i just be myself, seek truth i admit when im wrong, apologize if i offend, and these a something any human should do.

 

 

I guess the closest thing I can come up with is that you weren't a "true believer". You didn't sell out reality in order to supplant it with a fantasy. Instead, you wanted to know the reality of things, and took logical, scientific answers for things rather than just passing it off for something supernatural.

 

I'd take it as a compliment, assuming I'm interpreting it correctly.

[mymistake]

 

i was being silly with comic relief, i was trying to deliver a reverse pascal, but it was lame. dont mind me. i wasnt using apologetics i was using satire i dont actually believe that

 

 

You have used apologetics extensively throughout this thread.

 

Notable examples include post 7, 10, 23, 24/25, 33, 38, and 39 

 

It sounds like what I would expect if Ken Ham was drunk and about to pass out.