Sybaris Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Sometimes I accompany my wife to her church service (Quaker). This is a programmed service and I have heard some of the dumbest things in my life come out of this pastors mouth. Todays serman was, "Friend or Acquaintance?" The pastor started off by asking if you could name: The 5 richest people The last 5 Oscar winners The last 5 nobel prize winners The last 5 Pulitzer prize winners The last 5 Miss Americas's Then she asked if you could remember teachers you had and name all your relatives. Then she made the stupid comparison that because you can name teachers and relatives but not so much people from the other lists that your teachers and relatives are closer to being your true friends and more impactful on your life than those other people. All this via PowerPoint on her Windows 8 machine developed by Bill Gates, one of the top 5 richest people who incidentally is extremely benevolent towards improving the quality of life in 3rd world countries. She goes on to assert that only christians who pray with/for you and accompany you in your faith journey are your "true" friends. I nearly got up and walked out In the past this same pastor has also claimed that you cannot really love someone unless you accept Jebus as your saviour and that you are not really married unless you are a Christian. Disgusting 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milesaway Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Wow, they really need to quit using big words they don't understand. Since when is authentic friendship contingent upon groupthink and belief in a god? Since when is authentic friendship something people claim right off the bat when they barely know you? Nowhere I can think of, that's for sure. Xtians have proven themselves to be some of the absolute worst friends I've ever had in my whole life. I'm well aware that correlation doesn't always mean causation, but where there's smoke, there's generally fire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutsider Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Also, the computer she was using is a vastly improved highly advanced version of a machine that was invented by an incredibly brilliant, gay atheist named Alan Turing. Just thought I'd point that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violetbutterfly Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 This is why ex-Cs are "bitter" and "angry." Fuck off, lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Not all Quaker clerics are so abysmally stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I thought Quaker meetings were full of people sitting in silence until the Spirit moved someone to speak - anyone. This sounds like a motivational seminar. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 I thought Quaker meetings were full of people sitting in silence until the Spirit moved someone to speak - anyone. This sounds like a motivational seminar. That would be an unprogrammed Quaker service. What my wife attends is very similar to an ordinary protestant service without all the ritual but does include a couple periods of silence (naps for me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 My understanding was the same as Ficino. Didn't realize even that Quakers had clerics. Anyhow, the bottom line here seems to me to be that Christians - at least the more conservative type - will always tend to see other Christians as the only ones who are trustworthy, and there able and suitable, to be regarded as "friends". Indeed, they will often tend to see other Christians as almost friends by default, and non Christians as never more than acquaintances. After all, how can you not trust and be friends with those with the Holy Bullshit indwelling them...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted April 21, 2015 Author Share Posted April 21, 2015 Anyhow, the bottom line here seems to me to be that Christians - at least the more conservative type - will always tend to see other Christians as the only ones who are trustworthy, and there able and suitable, to be regarded as "friends". Indeed, they will often tend to see other Christians as almost friends by default, and non Christians as never more than acquaintances. Reminds me.......... I have a few "friends" from my childhood, now in our 50's, who won't even acknowledge me because I won't drink the Christian Kool Aid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Sometimes I accompany my wife to her church service (Quaker). This is a programmed service and I have heard some of the dumbest things in my life come out of this pastors mouth. Todays serman was, "Friend or Acquaintance?" The pastor started off by asking if you could name: The 5 richest people The last 5 Oscar winners The last 5 nobel prize winners The last 5 Pulitzer prize winners The last 5 Miss Americas's Then she asked if you could remember teachers you had and name all your relatives. Then she made the stupid comparison that because you can name teachers and relatives but not so much people from the other lists that your teachers and relatives are closer to being your true friends and more impactful on your life than those other people. All this via PowerPoint on her Windows 8 machine developed by Bill Gates, one of the top 5 richest people who incidentally is extremely benevolent towards improving the quality of life in 3rd world countries. She goes on to assert that only christians who pray with/for you and accompany you in your faith journey are your "true" friends. I nearly got up and walked out In the past this same pastor has also claimed that you cannot really love someone unless you accept Jebus as your saviour and that you are not really married unless you are a Christian. Disgusting I would agree with this pastor about comparing the impact of teachers and relatives with the persons in that top five list: For virtually everyone, teachers and relatives have a more lasting influence. The remainder of her sermon is religious garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Sure my teachers had an impact on my life but we're not friends (although I hear this happens) although in some cases we may have been friendly. They're paid to provide a service. I might argue they're like prostitutes in this fashion. If I go to a whore and she provides me with a paid service, which will also impact my life, is she also my dear and close friend? Unless I happen to be living inside Pretty Woman I'm going to have to say she is not and has no intention of ever becoming my friend (even if I'm stupid enough to develop feelings towards her or somehow mistake her for a friend). Just because someone has the ability, or obligation, to have an impact on your life (presumably in what you believe to be a positive way) does not make this person a friend or even friend material. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Christian friendships have always felt like acquaintances. I guess it's because we shared nothing in common except for attending the same church. Their conviction levels fluctuate wildly so upon hearing the wrong sermon or reading the wrong verse, they suddenly decide I'm a stumbling block. Yea no fuck that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gall Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Also, the computer she was using is a vastly improved highly advanced version of a machine that was invented by an incredibly brilliant, gay atheist named Alan Turing. Just thought I'd point that out. don't forget babbage while most people don't agree these days with this it was actually that mans work that led to what both turning did and what would become what we have today. That is not to discount turings work at all as it was fundamental to what we have today and he did something amazing in his time, I consider them both pioneers in the very field that makes me my living. We would not be using these wonderful devices today without them both. Turning got a raw deal and should never have been treated that way. It is sad that it went down like that for him. info on babbage if anyone cares: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Babbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCM Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Just curious, how does your wife feel about that sermon? I gather she''s christian still and that "you can only be true friends with Christians" thing has been going on for a while at that church. for my experience, i don't think Christians are my true friends. they're really good when the chips are up and you believe what they do, but hint at anything like being depressed, doubting or questioning, they are against you while smiling to your face. if you present anything other than their worldview incarnate, that is being happy all the time in God, expressing their beliefs back to them in conversation, succeeding at life (cause god brings success on the faithful), show them anything other than that and on a subconscious level they change, get defensive or aggressive to you and your feelings, or take shots at you while hiding behind their beliefs (love sniping it think its called). that's what it seems like to me anyway. they can be very good friends indeed if you happen to be Mr. christian superman ideal. or if your really trying to become that ideal, you'll get a lot of points for that. but I don't think they make very good true friends if they don't love you for how you actually are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOutsider Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Also, the computer she was using is a vastly improved highly advanced version of a machine that was invented by an incredibly brilliant, gay atheist named Alan Turing. Just thought I'd point that out. don't forget babbage while most people don't agree these days with this it was actually that mans work that led to what both turning did and what would become what we have today. That is not to discount turings work at all as it was fundamental to what we have today and he did something amazing in his time, I consider them both pioneers in the very field that makes me my living. We would not be using these wonderful devices today without them both. Turning got a raw deal and should never have been treated that way. It is sad that it went down like that for him. info on babbage if anyone cares: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Babbage I figured an earlier pioneer would have been mentioned, though Babbage being religious would have missed the point a bit. With that being said, I have nothing but appreciation for the work of anyone that has contributed to the technological landscape we currently enjoy, regardless of their personal beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Just curious, how does your wife feel about that sermon? I gather she''s christian still and that "you can only be true friends with Christians" thing has been going on for a while at that church. I don't know. My wife is a people pleaser so I don't think I would get a straight answer from her. She would just dodge it and say something positive about the rest of the sermon. Even if my wife didn't agree with the Pastors views she would still go out of social pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Just curious, how does your wife feel about that sermon? I gather she''s christian still and that "you can only be true friends with Christians" thing has been going on for a while at that church. for my experience, i don't think Christians are my true friends. they're really good when the chips are up and you believe what they do, but hint at anything like being depressed, doubting or questioning, they are against you while smiling to your face. if you present anything other than their worldview incarnate, that is being happy all the time in God, expressing their beliefs back to them in conversation, succeeding at life (cause god brings success on the faithful), show them anything other than that and on a subconscious level they change, get defensive or aggressive to you and your feelings, or take shots at you while hiding behind their beliefs (love sniping it think its called). that's what it seems like to me anyway. they can be very good friends indeed if you happen to be Mr. christian superman ideal. or if your really trying to become that ideal, you'll get a lot of points for that. but I don't think they make very good true friends if they don't love you for how you actually are. Thankl you. You have described my experience perfectly. It's somewhat comforting to realize that this is a "universal" (if you don't mind me saying) problem with religious types (and it's not "just me" and it's not "just you"), but at the same time it really angers me to know that this same kind of heartache and duplicitousness is the norm. You and I are physically on opposite sides of this planet -- yet we are faced with the same christian asshole treatment. And from my experience, I would assume that you came to your realization the hard way, after a certain amount of confusion or hurt or betrayal or abandonment or self-doubt or whatever else. I'm sorry you endured that. And I'm angry that many others are enduring it, even as we speak. Yeah, some of them figure it out like we did, but many just suffer through. You know: they're not praying enough, they're not humble enough, they're not donating enough time/money, they're not on the right committees, they're not acknowledging some secret sin, they're just not loveable enough, etc. ad nauseum. This forum is full of experiences like yours and mine. My mental health went way back up to normal after getting out of that nonsense. I hope you're doing well too. Thanks for sharing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCM Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Thanks RenaissanceWoman You know: they're not praying enough, they're not humble enough, they're not donating enough time/money, they're not on the right committees, they're not acknowledging some secret sin, they're just not loveable enough, etc. ad nauseum. There is that bizarre thing of "If your'e not happy/it's not working for you/you aren't like us, the universal cure is to buy into christianity even more. if you buy into it more, people will gravitate towards you, until you buy into it more than they do, which means your'e uncomfortable to talk to. if you but into it less, they will all shuffle away from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 Thanks RenaissanceWoman You know: they're not praying enough, they're not humble enough, they're not donating enough time/money, they're not on the right committees, they're not acknowledging some secret sin, they're just not loveable enough, etc. ad nauseum. There is that bizarre thing of "If your'e not happy/it's not working for you/you aren't like us, the universal cure is to buy into christianity even more. if you buy into it more, people will gravitate towards you, until you buy into it more than they do, which means your'e uncomfortable to talk to. if you but into it less, they will all shuffle away from you. I think a symptom of that is the proliferation of adopting Chinese babies within individual churches. It's morphed into a morbid one-upsmanship-pseudo-benevolent contest among the fundies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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