Prayer And Worship... I Need A Coping Strategy

[offtheromanroad]

Good morning everybody,

 

Can I just rant for a second?

 

Some of you might have read my extimony and about how I fight with guilt, a bad conscience (about nothing and everything) and how I have to fight the urge to pray all the time  -- or maybe not "all the time" but in all those situations where a "good Xian" would usually pray (well, that pretty much is all the time, isn't it ).

 

I am really thankful for all the people out there who took the time to type out an answer on that other thread and tried to help me out with those issues. And I have really been doing better these past days. Whenever I feeled an urge to pray, I was just like... wait... there is no one listening... so it's not worth it! And that really helped (and felt very liberating).

 

However, I do of course realize it is not that easy (how could it be after decades of praying...). I am quite stressed right now due to an exam I have to study for - it is actually not so much the exam that stresses me out, but the fact that I have to get done studying in time, if that makes any sense - and this gives me an extreme urge to pray. And that just GETS ON MY NERVES. It drives me crazy, it drives me nuts, and it makes me so angry! It's not like I just want to pray and hope the exam will go okay, no - I have been studying a lot already, I set up a study plan and have been following it. So I am doing everything I can. It's just that urge to pray, on top of trying to give my best. And I do not want to do that anymore. As I said, It drives me nuts, and it doesn't help me to calm down like it used to.

 

So this morning I thougt... I am not going to pray (as I wrote in the other thread, I sometimes use the lord's prayer as a way to get rid of that urge), I am going to put on some worship music to destress (please don't laugh...). And that music gave me this "cuddly-happy" feeling, but of course it didn't help. And then it made me angry. I haven't been listening to worshit in ages, and those lyrics...! So sappy... so short, so very simple.

 

If I may quote: "Make straight the highway for our lord".

A highway? Seriously?

 

And just writing all of this out gives me a bad conscience (even writing "worshit" feels like blapshemy. But hey, I can do that and I'll write it again: worshit!).

 

I am really sorry to bother you again with all of this... but does anybody have a coping strategy?

 

I can cope with the worshit - will just not put it on again. But the prayer thing? I just think I've always used prayer to calm down when stressed. Maybe it's that now that I don't want to pray anymore I do not know how to properly destress.

 

This whole issue also bothers me so much because it keeps me from concentrating on the studying I have to do. It's like I have to pray for everything to go okay, and if I don't it can't possibly go alright (I guess there is a notion of superstition - I already mentioned that in the other thread, sorry).

 

offtheroad

 

- sorry for my bizarre rant, and that I am so repetitive

[mymistake]

Prayer is a habit.  When I tried to break my prayer habit one of the first things that happened was I started talking to myself.

 

 It was weird.  But when you think about it prayer is talking to yourself and I had been doing it for over 30 years anyway.

 

For me the way I finally broke the habit is that I started praying to somebody else, somebody silly.

 

I choose Captain James T. Kirk.  No joke.

 

When I lost my keys I would ask Captain Kirk to use his sensors to find them.

 

When I found them (right where I left them) I would thank Captain Kirk.

 

Whatever prayer had been part of my routine I would continue to pray but this time without the confirmation bias.

 

Eventually I lost the urge to pray.  I stopped talking to myself as well.

 

The way to solve your school problem is with plenty of studying and a good night's sleep the night before.

 

Focus on solving your problem.  Conduct your prayer ritual your normal way.

 

The thing that was giving your comfort was your own brain and you still have that.

[Ellinas]

Priorities.

 

I would concentrate on the exam for now.  If you need to say a prayer just to keep your concentration, do so.  You know that is the reason you are doing it, so there is no inconsistency.

 

When you are past the exams, you can then address the prayer habit - which I would personally seek to break by turning it into a sort of "talking to myself" habit, a way of reasoning through issues verbally.

[DragonTheDruid]

I tend to just talk to myself out loud or mentally, or in extreme cases, just make up a god pertaining to my current situation to ask help from or whatnot, even though I know it will do nothing.

 

Like, I'm a hobbyist costumer(aka cosplayer), and if I'm having problems with a sewing machine or something, I'll ask the Cosplay Gods to help me, or if something goes well, I'll praise the cosplay gods, even though I know it was all my own effort.

 

However my main destressing and coping methods are music/singing my favourite songs, or whatnot

[Jaseph]

Like others have said, I would focus on the exam and just pray/listen to worshit if you want. You're not doing anything wrong. It's kind of funny also, so you can see it as humorous that you still do this while you don't believe. I mean, you can laugh about yourself when you (want to) pray instead of being harsh to yourself that you should not pray because it does not make sense. It may not make sense, but people (including ex-xtians) do things that make no sense all the time. Just own it!

 

I don't pray anymore, but I have plenty of xtianity-based habits/ways of thinking that are still affecting me to some degree (like I wrote in my other thread). Letting go of these is a process. It seems that you have already decided that it is nonsensical for you to pray/listen to worshit, and in my experience that means that over time you will do these things less and less until you completely quit doing it. This process goes more or less without effort, it just happens. Change starts with the decision, and it seems to me like your clearly made that.

 

I hope your exam goes well!

[Positivist]

Prayer is definitely a habit that seems to give us a buzz. We need to wean ourselves off of harmful habits; I'm not sure exactly how harmful prayer is, but I found a great article on prayer: http://infidels.org/library/modern/michael_moore/weak.html In it the author describes the pathological aspects of prayer, in that humans who depend on prayer lack self-efficacy to act on their own behalf. I was definitely like that as a believer,

 

I don't think prayer in itself is a bad thing per se. It's kind of like meditation. Someone here once said that all those times you prayed you were just having a conversation with yourself. All those times "god" spoke to you, it was your subconscious talking to you. I think we need to learn how to have faith....in ourselves.

 

I hope your exam goes well. If "praying" helps, maybe that's a strategy for now. 

[Noelle7]

Hmm I engage in mediation and saying positive affirmations. I also find journaling to be helpful, what I want, what I need,etc

[GraphicsGuy]

Some of you might have read my extimony and about how I fight with guilt, a bad conscience (about nothing and everything)

Yes, I have what I call an "overactive guilty conscience" as well. It has taken me quite a while to learn to accept that it is part of my makeup and a result of being born into the cult.

 

It's just that urge to pray, on top of trying to give my best. And I do not want to do that anymore. As I said, It drives me nuts, and it doesn't help me to calm down like it used to.

If you want to pray, pray. You don't have to pray to the Christian "God". I still "pray" to the "universe" every now and then when things get difficult.

 

And just writing all of this out gives me a bad conscience (even writing "worshit" feels like blapshemy. But hey, I can do that and I'll write it again: worshit!).

Swearing is the fucking cheapest therapy there is.

 

I am really sorry to bother you again with all of this... but does anybody have a coping strategy?

A. No need to apologize. You should see some of my bat-shit crazy early posts...or was that earlier today?...I can't remember.

 

B. No need to apologize. That's what this forum is here for.

 

C. I can absolutely promise you that it DOES get better. You WILL get through this. You ARE strong enough. You ARE tough enough. Time does heal the wounds.

[offtheromanroad]

Hello there,

 

Thanks for hanging in there with me. I really need it.

 

"Swearing is the fucking cheapest therapy there is." --> Thanks GG, this made me laugh! And it still does.

 

The fact that I like to apologize might also be due to Xianity... thanks for telling me I do not have to.

 

I might reply on some of your posts later on. As I said, they really help and encourage me. It's just that I need to go back studying...

 

All the best to you all today. Enjoy your freedom to the fullest. I am so happy to have found this forum. It's the first time in a while that I feel understood when talking about Xianity/leaving it.

 

offtheroad

[traveller2]

Prayer is a habit. When I tried to break my prayer habit one of the first things that happened was I started talking to myself.

 

 

Hahaha I used to do that too! Thank you for helping me strike off another thing from my self imposed shame list.If another person does it then it's not just me and cny be that weird is my thinking.

[Becks]

 

 

 

I am really sorry to bother you again with all of this... but does anybody have a coping strategy?

 

 

Hey there,

I'm probably messing up capturing your quote. I'm a little techy challenged. I totally understand how you feel! Prayer (and worship) was a daily part of my life for 30 years. Like breathing , really. Haven't been there for a long time now and even now I get the urge like when my 20 year old drives off in her rattletrap car I want to pray for Her safety. It's like stifling an important urge. I think when we need help or are feeling weak in some way we want to ask for help so it's natural to call out to a higher power especially when we believe they are listening and will respond. All along it was just us expressing our need verbally and yes it's kind of just talking to yourself, but it can also be affirming that you are the one who has the answer. I LOVE the Captain Kirk idea! When I was trying to break the habit I prayed to any other god because I knew it was just as ridiculous to expect they would help me...oh mighty Zeus! Please help me. Dear Poseiden, please don't let me drown while swimming. You get it! Eventually I stopped because it just made me laugh at the ridiculousness of the whole thing. Good luck on your exam! You already have what it takes to get through it!

[offtheromanroad]

I like the Poseidon idea :-)

 

Thanks so much to each of you for your input... right now I am trying hard to keep studying...

 

Becks, I like the idea that we are the ones who have the answers/solutions. It's just that sometimes I also have the tendency to put myself down (another nice character trait Xianity has instilled in me). But I keep trying to believe that it's of who is in control (as much as one can be, that is...), not some higher being.

 

Will try to post more on the weekend. Thanks so much for listening.

[offtheromanroad]

I like the Poseidon idea :-)

 

Thanks so much to each of you for your input... right now I am trying hard to keep studying...

 

Becks, I like the idea that we are the ones who have the answers/solutions. It's just that sometimes I also have the tendency to put myself down (another nice character trait Xianity has instilled in me). But I keep trying to believe that it's us who are in control (as much as we can be, that is...), not some higher being.

 

Will try to post more on the weekend. Thanks so much for listening.

[offtheromanroad]

sorry, double post...

[Becks]

 It's just that sometimes I also have the tendency to put myself down (another nice character trait Xianity has instilled in me). But I keep trying to believe that it's us who are in control (as much as we can be, that is...), not some higher being.

 

 

Christianity instills the unfortunate midset that we are nothing wthout god. Born a sinner and need saving. This makes one feel lowly, and I have also suffered from low self esteem due to this indoctrination. When we realize that all along it is our own mind making choices that take us where we go in life it helps us take responsibility for our actions and no longer accept someone else has control over you or has a higher plan that you have to figure out. It's all you !!!

[offtheromanroad]

Hi there again,

 

*taking a break from studying*

 

I'd like to thank all of you again for replying to this thread. Thanks also to those (like mymistake and Ellinas) who replied once again to a topic that I already covered in my extimony. You could aswell just have said "girl, didn't you listen when I talked to you last time". But you didn't, and I appreciate that. A lot.

 

I have been doing slightly better. Thanks for the advice to just go with it for now and concentrate on studying. That's what I am doing. Once in a while, I'll do my yadayada Lord's prayer, and it'll calm me down/quench the OCD    (I hate to admit this). I like the Captain Kirk thing, but am not yet ready for that, haha.

 

"I think we need to learn how to have faith....in ourselves." Positivist: You're getting one big time "AMEN" from me for that one (in case you were into pentecostal Xianity, I can also raise my hands to that one or faint!). No, really. This! Xianity is part of why I am, at times, really self-conscious.

 

GraphicsGuy, do you have strategies as to how to handle your ""overactive guilty conscience"? If so, I'd be interested... I'd be willing to pay royalties!

 

Becks, thanks for your kind words. They mean a lot.

 

offtheroad

[offtheromanroad]

Prayer is definitely a habit that seems to give us a buzz. We need to wean ourselves off of harmful habits; I'm not sure exactly how harmful prayer is, but I found a great article on prayer: http://infidels.org/library/modern/michael_moore/weak.html In it the author describes the pathological aspects of prayer, in that humans who depend on prayer lack self-efficacy to act on their own behalf. I was definitely like that as a believer,

 

I don't think prayer in itself is a bad thing per se. It's kind of like meditation. Someone here once said that all those times you prayed you were just having a conversation with yourself. All those times "god" spoke to you, it was your subconscious talking to you. I think we need to learn how to have faith....in ourselves.

 

I hope your exam goes well. If "praying" helps, maybe that's a strategy for now. 

Thanks for the link to the article, Positivist. Will read it once the studying frenzy is over. I have never looked at prayer being pathogenetic. Now that I don't believe in it anymore, it sounds logical.

[GraphicsGuy]

GraphicsGuy, do you have strategies as to how to handle your ""overactive guilty conscience"? If so, I'd be interested... I'd be willing to pay royalties!

Strategy? What's that??? Ha!

 

I don't know if I've ever really listed out what I "do" per sey or even really thought of what I "do" as strategy, but I guess that is what it is...

 

In no particular order (since I've never thought this through):

 

1. I do a LOT of self-talk. Mostly in my head, but sometimes out loud. I really don't see a problem with people talking to themselves if one is genuinely having an internal conversation to attempt to sort their self out.

 

2. Although I do berate myself I really try not to do so. Yes, I'm an idiot, but I'm not that bad of an idiot because I'm actually attempting to figure myself out.

 

3. I cut myself a LOT of slack. Okay, yeah, I blew it this morning when I yelled at the city workers for almost towing my car (true story) and I got all hot-headed and bothered, but I'm going through a lot of emotional upheaval right now and it's bound to come out when things aren't going in my favour.

 

4. Counselling/talk-therapy...my biggest go-to. I trust my counselor completely and one can't get enough of that. The guy is even a Christian, but it never comes between our relationship as counselor/client.

 

5. Friends. Friends and/or a partner that tell you how awesome you are cannot be more important.

 

6. I ask myself WHY I feel guilty over this or over that. SHOULD I feel guilty for it? Did I actually cause any harm or hurt feelings? If so, should I apologize? If I did apologize do I still need to feel guilty.

 

7. Who am I accountable to? First and foremost: ME.

 

8. Sometimes feeling "guilt" isn't actually true guilt...quite often (maybe even most often) it is actually embarrassment/shame over how I acted/reacted in a particular situation. So, I try to turn that around: was there justification to act as I did? Did I over-react? What can I work on to deal with that kind of situation in the future?

 

9. Realizing that guilt/embarrassment/shame is really the result of not living up to our own standards...PRIDE/EGO is the true culprit. I expect very little other than common courtesy from most people, but I DEMAND a lot of perfection from myself.

 

10. So, that brings me back to one of the most important things...BE KIND TO YOURSELF. You're human and only you truly know what is best for you and everyone else is just as fucked up as you may feel you are. No one else has life figured out and we're all equal...(well, okay, we'll just admit that you and I are a little bit better than everyone else )

 

I hope something in that mess makes some slight bit of sense..............

[offtheromanroad]

Graphics guy, this actually makes a lot of sense. I think it all comes down to how I treat myself... I also demand a lot from myself (well, what is "a lot"... most of the time I just demand from myself what I've always demanded from myself, to me it is normal.

 

Thanks for posting this and sorry for the late reply. Have been busy studying...

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

I sometimes do the same thing. I pray out of habit. When I realize what I'm doing, I laugh to myself and just start an internal dialogue with myself. I don't have an issue with this, as when I was a believer I thought I was talking with the Holy Spirit, when it was just an internal dialogue the whole time. Try journaling. Write out your "prayers" and then search yourself for the answers that you thought were from God. You will be amazed at the deep wisdom you've always had within yourself all along. Don't worry so much about how crazy it seems that you are pretty much talking to yourself. You can discover so much about yourself just by taking to yourself. Your subconscious stores so much more information than you could ever imagine. Doing these relaxation/meditation/prayer rituals are actually healthy. Read up on secular prayer. Its fascinating! Good luck with your tests and keep your chin up! DONT be so hard on yourself babe!

[VacuumFlux]

Another vote for just talking to yourself.

 

For me, I used to love praying because I thought that god was the one "person" I could be completely honest with - if he already knew my thoughts, it would be silly to try to hide them! So the good part about prayer (when I wasn't just using it to hide from life and my own responsibilities) was that it helped me to verbalize thoughts that I hadn't even been aware I was thinking. Some of my self-talk when I'm working through issues now sounds an awful lot like my old prayers, just without them being addressed to a deity. So for a test, it would be something like "I'm scared. I really want to do well on this, and if I don't I'll hate myself because my sense of self-worth and value is based on Being Good At Things. And Being Good At Things makes me feel valuable to other people and therefore loved and I really don't want to be lonely and I'm afraid that if I fail at this test I'm going to be LONELY FOREVER AND EVER and... wait a minute... that's silly."

 

And I don't tell myself that those thoughts are wrong to have, only that they're silly. They're obviously real thoughts, born out of real human needs for affection and belonging. So I laugh at the particular form my fears are taking, and if I also notice that I really am feeling lonely (maybe because I cut back on social time in order to focus on studying), I make a note to schedule some sort of social event once the test is over. So I honor my fears by finding realistic methods to address them, not by tellign myself that being afraid is wrong. And that last part, the ability to find real-life solutions to the problems I've discovered, is the big advantage (for me) for talking to myself over praying. When I used to pray, I felt helpless and just begged god to magic the sad away. When I know I'm talking to myself, I realize that I also have power and agency to fix things that I'm unhappy with.

[offtheromanroad]

I sometimes do the same thing. I pray out of habit. When I realize what I'm doing, I laugh to myself and just start an internal dialogue with myself. I don't have an issue with this, as when I was a believer I thought I was talking with the Holy Spirit, when it was just an internal dialogue the whole time. Try journaling. Write out your "prayers" and then search yourself for the answers that you thought were from God. You will be amazed at the deep wisdom you've always had within yourself all along. Don't worry so much about how crazy it seems that you are pretty much talking to yourself. You can discover so much about yourself just by taking to yourself. Your subconscious stores so much more information than you could ever imagine. Doing these relaxation/meditation/prayer rituals are actually healthy. Read up on secular prayer. Its fascinating! Good luck with your tests and keep your chin up! DONT be so hard on yourself babe!

Ah, thanks so much! I LOVE how you call it "secular prayer". It's like beating the system at its own game!!! Great!

[offtheromanroad]

Another vote for just talking to yourself.

 

For me, I used to love praying because I thought that god was the one "person" I could be completely honest with - if he already knew my thoughts, it would be silly to try to hide them! So the good part about prayer (when I wasn't just using it to hide from life and my own responsibilities) was that it helped me to verbalize thoughts that I hadn't even been aware I was thinking. Some of my self-talk when I'm working through issues now sounds an awful lot like my old prayers, just without them being addressed to a deity. So for a test, it would be something like "I'm scared. I really want to do well on this, and if I don't I'll hate myself because my sense of self-worth and value is based on Being Good At Things. And Being Good At Things makes me feel valuable to other people and therefore loved and I really don't want to be lonely and I'm afraid that if I fail at this test I'm going to be LONELY FOREVER AND EVER and... wait a minute... that's silly."

 

And I don't tell myself that those thoughts are wrong to have, only that they're silly. They're obviously real thoughts, born out of real human needs for affection and belonging. So I laugh at the particular form my fears are taking, and if I also notice that I really am feeling lonely (maybe because I cut back on social time in order to focus on studying), I make a note to schedule some sort of social event once the test is over. So I honor my fears by finding realistic methods to address them, not by tellign myself that being afraid is wrong. And that last part, the ability to find real-life solutions to the problems I've discovered, is the big advantage (for me) for talking to myself over praying. When I used to pray, I felt helpless and just begged god to magic the sad away. When I know I'm talking to myself, I realize that I also have power and agency to fix things that I'm unhappy with.

 

 

"...was that it helped me to verbalize thoughts that I hadn't even been aware I was thinking"

 

Oh so true. Thank you, also for the other things you wrote. This makes a lot of sense. And on a sidenote: I really need some social events once my test is over ;-))

[offtheromanroad]

This forum is great... I can't believe how many can relate and say they talk to themselves one way or the other (or to Captain Kirk ;-))