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Goodbye Jesus

How/when To Break It To Kids


Daffodil

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This is for parents. My kids are 9 and almost 11. My husband and I are out to each other, but to no one else yet. I have started to "forget" to pray with the kids at night when I tuck them in. Most of the time they don't notice, but sometimes they call me on it and I have to follow the script for them. We haven't gone to church since early December and they are ok with that because they were never that in to church anyway, but the indoctrination they had already received is still active in them. We have already begun to change how we talk about our beliefs. For instance, we have told them that many people believe that the bible is the true word of God and that the stories really happened, but that we believe they are just stories written to help people understand nature and how to live. We then go on to ask them if they really believe that Noah got two of every animal on a boat, etc. and while my 11-yr-old daughter always says no, my son says he does believe. He has also told us he wants to be baptized. I handled that one by telling him he needs to wait a few years to be sure of it.

 

Anyway, my husband and I differ on how to handle this whole mess. He thinks that we should continue to go to church so that the kids can have that foundation which they can then decide what to do with when they are older (he's also concerned about the fact that we would lose all our social contacts if we completely quit church). I think that's a terrible idea because we will have to keep fighting the indoctrination, especially with my son. On the other hand, I don't think we should completely blow their minds by laying it all out for them in one fell swoop.

 

So, my question is how others have handled this. I have read some of GodlessinDixie's blog posts about his situation and that has helped, but I'd love to hear other's stories as well. Thanks in advance!

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I simply tell my kids that I don't believe in God.  I act like it's not a big deal.  By the way your nine year old might cool off if he is not exposed to church on a constant basis.  He is almost to that age where the brain develops deeper thinking.  When that happens children begin to question the world view they grew up with and evaluate new ideas.  Notice how many work out that Santa isn't real?

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While I'm not a parent, and I can only imagine how complicated the situation may be, I'd say do whatever you can to give them at least a shot at being free from that mental poison. Give them a chance to be curious and learn about the world instead of thinking they already know everything they need to.

 

My two cents, for what they're worth.

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I'm glad that I told my kids at that age.  They almost immediately followed me out.  If I had continued to expose them to indoctrination it may have been more difficult for them to escape.  If you and hubbies both agree, for FSM sake, stahp lying to them.  Set them free.  You can teach them character in a realistic context.  They don't need the guilt and the bullshit.

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At dalemcgowan.com you can find McGowan's book Parenting Beyond Belief which was written for parents in your situation.  Good luck.

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Disclaimer: I'm not a parent!

 

But it occurs to me that devout Catholic parents take their kids to Mass, Jews send their kids to temple and Hebrew school, Muslim parents make sure their kids get to the mosque, and so on. See where this is going?

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I'll second the "Parenting Beyond Belief" book.

 

I'm really happy for you that you and your husband are together on this - both leaving Christianity. That will make this much easier. As far as my own situation, my boys were around 16 and 14 when on a Saturday evening, I told them that I no longer believed, and that I wouldn't be going to church with them any more. They seemed to take it okay.

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I firmly believe that religious belief is a choice that should be made when people are ADULTS.

 

Much like sex, children are not capable of making that important of a choice before maturity.

 

Plus, most religious sects/denominations rely way too much on brainwashing tactics (whether they realize that is what they are doing or not) to sway kids (particularly) into belief and to follow a specific credo.

 

You, as parents, create the foundation for your children's belief, not some damn church.

 

Sure, let them explore. If they genuinely want to go to church, then let them, but your own stance should be declared as well, "This is what I believe. What you believe is your choice, but I would encourage you to shop around and discover what other people/culture's believe before choosing a specific one at this point your life."

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The last church I went to, they were very honest about getting the kids while they were young. Heavy investment into camps, etc.

I was a bit of a closet doubter on a lot of things for many years. When I finally came out to my daughter, she and her friends all said they'd basically known it for years. She was 19.

How did I navigate all that? Painfuylly, more painfully than you need to. For one thing, I didn't know at the time I was deconverting. I did a lot wrong, but one thing I believe I did right was ask her a lot of questions about what she was being told.

If both of you don't believe, I think it's best to be honest wwith your kids. Kids know. I distinctly remember adults -- not my parents, in my case but other adults -- trying to be what my own wife would probably call appropriate, in some way, bs us about something. And we kids -- students in a class, or friends of the adult-s kid who was being hoodwinked, -- always saw right through it. Kids know.

 

So, if your kids prompt you to pray, ask them a few questions about it. Ask what they think it might do if you did or didn't. Or does it just make them feel good. Perhaps they just expect it out of habit, that is all.

I think our kids respect us more when we're honest, all this new aged-appropriate stuff be damned.

I know people feel different. I never once regretted it as a kid if my parents told us they were tight this month, or don't ask for things right now, we are saving for something else, or anything else they now try and tell us isn't appropriate.

 

Oh and if church is the main social situation where you're at, you may want to find a different one. I'm really probably not the best to ask because I'm in a mixed situation at home, and didn't really do the necessary homework to fully find myself out to be a nonbeliever until after the daughter was done with high school and I no longer was duty-bound to deliver on the fatherly obligations re: church and the like.

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I say be honest. You're not teaching your kids anything good by avoiding tough conversations or situations just because it's gonna hurt a bit. Kids are resilient and tough and adaptable - that's why they believe all the religious nonsense in the first place! I never understand people delaying the truth to make things "better". Delayed truth ALWAYS results in bitterness and betrayal.

 

Can you imagine if your parents forced you to attend church every weekend (when you could have been doing things you actually LIKED) for years and years and then told you in your 20's that they were atheists the entire time and just too scared to tell you about it?! I'd be pissed if my parents did that.

 

In case you're wondering, we deconverted when our kids were 11 and 13. We had open and honest conversations about why we no longer believed and the kids were allowed to ask any questions and no topics were off limits (including sex, evolution, science, religion...) Now my kids are world-smart, they are confident in making their own choices and they are attending public school and doing very well. I believe there's no better way to raise your children than by complete honesty and transparency in the way things "really are". Sheltering is not a good option, because the shelter always comes down eventually.

 

Your husband's idea to continue to allow them to be indoctrinated makes zero sense to me. Why would you do that to the innocents that you love?

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Thank you so much, everyone, for responding-those who are parents as well as those not. Gives me a lot to think about. I realized as I was reading through these that there is something else at play here. My hubby and I have not come out to anyone yet. Knowing how terrible kids are at discretion, it will only be a matter of time before they "out" us first! My brother and sister-in-law are my biggest concern there. They have four home-schooled kids and we are their godparents. I really don't know how strongly they would react, but I could imagine them deciding to find new godparents!

 

MYMISTAKE - I agree that time and distance may help with my son. The baptism thing is actually from his idolized older cousin who got baptized last summer.

 

THEOUTSIDER - We always try to ask questions that make them think.

 

TRUEFREEDOM - The problem is, we don't necessarily agree, and we're both trying to figure this new "normal" out for ourselves.

 

FTNZ & EUGENE39 - thanks for the boom recommendation. I'll check into it!

 

FLORDUH - yup, I see! :)

 

GRAPHICSGUY - that's my husband's take on it. I'm not worried about my daughter because from a young age she has told me that she just can't decide if she believes in God or not because she can't see or hear him (That's my girl!), but my son is much more trusting and gullible. We already have had to re-educate them on things we disagreed with even before we deconverted and have always encouraged their fascination with dinosaurs. Also, the church we most recently attended regularly was much more open-minded spiritually. They basically don't take a stand on evolution or gays or any of the "hot" topics, preferring to let individuals decide for themselves. Because of that, I have a little less fear about the influence there, but it seems a bit dishonest to take them somewhere I don't believe in.

 

LEO - I was also a closet doubter for most of my life. I realized very early on that asking the wrong questions just did not go over well. I just kept pushing the doubts to the back of my mind. The creepiest form of brainwashing I've seen is AWANA. My kids were only in it for one year and I will never let them set foot in a program like that again. Hey, let's encourage kids to memorize scripture using competition, candy, stickers, badges, and games, and never talk about what any of the verses actually mean! NEVER again! I'm definitely leaning toward spilling it to my kids and just see what happens. It will certainly lead to an interesting discussions!

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Simple way of looking at this - if you don't want to turn them into Christians, why take them to church?

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The creepiest form of brainwashing I've seen is AWANA. My kids were only in it for one year and I will never let them set foot in a program like that again. Hey, let's encourage kids to memorize scripture using competition, candy, stickers, badges, and games, and never talk about what any of the verses actually mean! NEVER again! I'm definitely leaning toward spilling it to my kids and just see what happens. It will certainly lead to an interesting discussions! 

 

Don't forget the pseudo-military uniforms and ranks. I went through much of that program as a young person and became a "listener" briefly afterward. Definitely not something I'll be recommending to anyone's kids.

 

I'm another non-parent with an opinion. Personally, I think the worst thing for a kid is to have a parent lying to them, even by omission. I'd recommend letting them know (perhaps gently) that you don't personally believe it and it's okay for them to decide either way. Also, like others suggested, let them know that all kinds of people believe other things and it's okay to explore those, too (assuming you want to deal with that Pandora's box).

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BURNY - It's interesting. Even as a Christian I tried to never lie to my kids. I told them from the start that Santa, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, etc. were not real, but were just fun ways to celebrate holidays. They accepted the Santa and Easter bunny stuff but actually argued with me over the tooth fairy! You are all right. It would be withholding the truth to not tell them what our beliefs currently are and why we are reluctant to go to church. I guess part of my fears (besides the fact that the cat will be out of the bag in no time) is knowing they will probably end up having arguments with their friends, possibly losing some friends, have to deal with proselytizers, possibly have problems with their beloved cousins, who knows!

 

I'll share what you all have said here with hubby and see what he says. I think he's more concerned with the social aspect of losing church, so maybe he'll agree with me on spilling the beans. Will keep you all posted!

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Here's my two cents:  I was raised by agnostic parents who took us to church because the neighbors had invited them and it was the late 60's and that's what you did.  My parents always answered our questions honestly, not with "god" answers (i.e., rainbows are caused by the light coming thru the rain, just like a prism breaks up the light into colors, NOT "because Noah's Ark"), or with an honest "I don't know."  They're both deceased now, but I always respected them and their honesty and humor.

 

Then when I was married to my first husband, who was an atheist but nobody knew because he's very quiet and private, we went to church (again, I'm not sure why, just because we had both grown up in churches and there is that social aspect), and we raised our kids like I'd been raised, answering them truthfully, and never spouting god and bible at them.  

 

My kids knew that Santa and the bunny and the tooth fairy were fun, made-up stories.  They learned good science when they became interested in dinosaurs and rocks.

 

I was a xian when I was young, born again sometime in my early teens, and began questioning and becoming agnostic by the time I was 20.  A few years ago, I found a book that settled the question of god for me and I was done for good with any religion.  I finally, officially, at age 51, came out on facebook and let everybody know in a nice, low-key way.

 

I quit attending church a bit over a decade ago, after getting divorced and ending up working Sundays.  Nobody from that church (which had been somewhat decent with its social aspect) ever contacted me again.  Because of that, I've never had an interest in attending any type of church again, besides I still work Sundays (but not Wednesday evenings), because I realized while they were all polite, there wasn't real friendship. 

 

My kids, now in their early 20's, somehow survived that mishmash, and are wonderful young adults, both non-believers, but both very respectful about people's personal beliefs.  I couldn't have asked for a better outcome, and we sure didn't plan it very well!

 

I think being honest with your kids, answering their questions honestly and with real answers not "god" answers, teaching them to be respectful of others and their beliefs (as long as they're not harmful to the point of shooting you), and letting your kids feel safe with their questions with you, and loving them, will end up working best.  

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BURNY - It's interesting. Even as a Christian I tried to never lie to my kids. I told them from the start that Santa, the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, etc. were not real, but were just fun ways to celebrate holidays. They accepted the Santa and Easter bunny stuff but actually argued with me over the tooth fairy! You are all right. It would be withholding the truth to not tell them what our beliefs currently are and why we are reluctant to go to church. I guess part of my fears (besides the fact that the cat will be out of the bag in no time) is knowing they will probably end up having arguments with their friends, possibly losing some friends, have to deal with proselytizers, possibly have problems with their beloved cousins, who knows!

 

I'll share what you all have said here with hubby and see what he says. I think he's more concerned with the social aspect of losing church, so maybe he'll agree with me on spilling the beans. Will keep you all posted!

 

Trust me - I completely understand. All of our family still believes and goes to church. The amazing thing for us was that we just ignore the issue and they seem to scared to really challenge us! We thought they'd be writing us and proselytizing and all that, but they really haven't. Other than a few mutterings about how "bad" it was, they seem too scared to approach us directly with challenges / questions.

 

As to losing the community of church - you do realize that eventually you'll HAVE to leave right? Yes - church isn't ALL bad. You have friends who 'care' about you and you have familiarity and feel safe as long as you're with familiar surroundings and raising your arms and singing with your neighbor. Now that you aren't actually a church member anymore (remember - you don't believe what all your 'friends' do), you are also being incredibly dishonest with them by pretending everything is the same as always.

 

True friends won't leave you in the dust. Everyone who abandons you, were ever only fake friends, because you write a cheque to the pastor every month. I know many people who are afraid to leave churches because they don't want to find out the harsh reality that most of their 'friends' were only friendly because you believed the exact same thing.

 

Friendship isn't about agreement. That's just membership. Not the same thing.

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BURNY - ugh! I know you're right. I just sat across from my sister-in-law yesterday and let slip that we hadn't been to church for months. She looked at me funny, repeated what I said as a question, then went on with what she had been saying. I looked at her as she spoke, imagining telling her the truth and my heart just sank. I love her, my brother and their kids so much! Maybe I'm letting others' stories on here scare me too much. Maybe they would not react as badly as all that. You're right about lying to friends and such. This isn't going to be easy.

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