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Goodbye Jesus

To Come Out, Or Not To Come Out


ConscientiousObjector

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My conscience objects to Christianity. For far too long, I have been ashamed to call myself a Christian. Conversely, I've been reticent to admit my true beliefs (or lack thereof) to fellow Christians. I've spent most of my life sitting on a fence, refusing to decide which side I belong on. My faith entered a gradual but inexorable decline when I was seven. I am now in my mid-thirties, married, with three boys (a preschooler and fraternal twin toddlers).

 

I will try to keep this brief, but that isn't my strong suit, so forgive me if I ramble. I grew up in a somewhat disfunctional, lower-class, lenient Christian home. My parents were both believers of sorts, but they were jaded with organized religion and we rarely attended church. However, my sisters and I regularly went to a bible study group that a neighbor conducted in her home. Back then I was very naive and my faith unwavering, yet still I could not bring myself to love and trust god. When I prayed, I prayed to Jesus, who was far more approachable and compassionate than god. Everything bible stories taught me, particularly those in the OT, made it obvious that this "god" character was merely a petty and vindictive child. My life experiences, the misfortunes of others, and world events all confirmed that. I tried to convince myself I was wrong, that god was testing me or that the devil was trying to deceive me, but that image of god persisted.

 

A seed of doubt was planted when I saw a magazine article about evolution when I was seven. Much of its content was over my head, but what struck me was the visual comparison of neanderthal and hominid skulls and skeletal remains over time. Words cannot express how profound that moment was for me. It just made sense. In an instant, that article reduced the story of Adam and Eve to an ignorant, mythological explanation for simple-minded people in an inexplicable and unpredictable world. I thought, if the bible is wrong about this, what else could be wrong? The bible says even mustard-seed sized faith can move mountains, but neglects to mention that a seed of doubt can crumble them.

 

Did I mention my knack for making a short story long? I need a montage! I tried desperately to cling to my faith in the following years. Unfortunately, I continually found more reasons to question than believe. There were sometimes incongruencies between science and religion (evolution, geology, young earth creationism, a worldwide flood, Noah's ark, ect.), sometimes passages in the bible that offended my conscience (the psychotic nature of god, and how women, unbelievers, and homosexuals are viewed), but quite often purely emotional (I couldn't cultivate that "spark of faith", and when I needed god most, he wasn't there). By the middle of high school I was done with organized religion (or so I thought). I could never reconcile the notion of an omnipotent, loving god who could condemn billions for the simple failing of disbelief. I reasoned that any god worthy of worship would understand my reasons for doubt, and would value deeds over faith.

 

I joined the Navy SeaBees right out of high school, more for the GI bill than from a sense of patriotic duty. Don't get me wrong, I love America, but for the Constitutional ideals we should stand for rather than the finger-pointing, self-righteous circus it has become. During the first few years of my enlistment, I had the time of my life. That all changed when I was deployed to Diego Garcia, a tiny island in the middle of the Indian Ocean. This island was nothing more than an empty jungle with a small naval base, populated by roughly 800 military personnel, possibly 10% female. There I became a victim of a scenario all too common for women in the military, especially in remote locations. I was so angry with myself and with god for allowing it to happen that I didn't even report it for a week. When I did report it, my reputation was destroyed. I was treated like a liar and a wh@re by all of my superiors and most of my peers. I was lucky enough to have a great group of friends who stood by me and helped me through, or I may have killed myself. I experienced a relapse into Christianity at this point, certain that god was punishing me for turning away. I tried a few churches, but they all felt wrong, forced and phony. I prayed to god throughout the ordeal, but I never felt his presence.

 

I met my husband about half a year later. He was the son of a Protestant Congregational minister, and he was only somewhat religious (a silent doubter like myself). I wanted to believe that god was throwing me a rope, that here was a man who could help me make sense of life and we could grow together in our faith. After 3 kids and nearly 14 years later (the first 6 living together in sin, gasp!), we couldn't be more in love or more connected. We can talk about anything, but our conversations regarding faith are stilted, neither of us being wholly confident in our faith or lack of it. But try as we might, we simply can't believe. We have prayed for faith constantly, to no avail. We've sought answers and meaning within the bible, only to find more questions and disillusionment. We have tried attending dozens of churches of different denominations (ha! I spelled it dominations at first! Freudian slip?), but they never feel right to either of us. We both feel like impostors among Christians.

 

For me, the consumption of any Christian material brings about a sort of internalized Tourette's syndrome. I sit in church, not with the metaphorical angel on one shoulder and demon on the other, but a diminutive Lewis Black yelling into my ear in a voice only I can hear (this is pure imagery, by the way. I've never actually heard the voice of Lewis Black in my head, but neither have I heard the voice of god), "What this is, purely and simply, is a clinical psychotic reaction. They are crazy... I would love to have faith, but, I have thoughts. And that can really f@&k up the faith thing."

(try imagining that in church and not laughing out loud).

 

It was for my children's sake that I finally decided to give up religion. I cannot abide the idea of them being taught young earth creationism, along with the rest of the pack of lies they feed us from birth. I have no idea why I tried to believe for so long. Sadly, wanting to believe is far removed from actual belief, so I suppose I've been screwed all along. Regarding my views on evolution, homosexuality, ect., I've often been told, "Well, if you believe that (or don't believe this), you're not a true christian."  Foolishly, I always attempted to defend my position when I should have said, "You are absolutely right, I'm not Christian."  At this point, I'm so disgruntled with religion that I want to change my facebook status to "After a careful examination of Christianity, I've realized I'm an atheist."  I know if I say anything it will seriously alienate my in-laws, and I don't want that. But I'm so tired of hiding in the closet! If you're still reading this, thanks for your time. After years of brainwashing, I needed to "wash" the Christian filth from my brain! 

 

 

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You will certainly find a warm welcome here. I'm glad you found us.

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Hi ConscientiousObjector! Welcome.  You are in the right place.. I haven't been here long, but the support I've felt from others has been nothing short of incredible.  Be proud of yourself- you are making a choice to live honestly, and that's a very brave and honorable thing. It's wonderful that you have the support of your husband, use each other for strength as you navigate any difficulties that may come by coming out.

 

As far as coming out, I chose to write a letter to those who were closest to me and to the most brainwashed of my friends (you can find a link to that in my signature), and tried to keep it very loving, though it did run laced with a bit of anger as I wrote it shortly after my deconversion.  There were some losses, but the reaction from those that love me for me, not my faith, was touching and encouraging.  After this, I chose to make my disbelief public by changing my Facebook status to secular humanist, then atheist. Though, a way to ease into it might be to put "none" at first.. this doesn't bring up a lot of the emotions Christian folk feel when they read "atheist."  I also read a book called "Mom, Dad, I'm an atheist" by David McAfee. That helped!

 

Best wishes!

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Thanks so much for the support! I wish I had stumbled across this site years ago. It's silly, but I had an almost perverse need for validation that I'm not crazy or morally corrupt for failing to believe in the holy trinity. I've known many atheists and non-christians over the years, so it's strange that I was so fearful that admitting this would transform my character. MY CHARACTER!! It is so liberating to finally take ownership of my strengths and weaknesses, to no longer attribute them to some deity I cannot see, hear or feel. It's good to no longer feel like a pawn, to be used or cast aside at will.

 

After reading many of your posts, I realize I'm very lucky to have a spouse in the same boat as I am (I am a bit farther along in deconversion than him, as he still wants to believe in a higher power). I'm quite paranoid about the repercussions of "coming out", being that my husbands family is deeply religious. My father-in-law has been a minister all his adult life, and recently earned a doctorate in theology. I only completed high school, so I don't feel educated enough to properly present my case (partly why I'm here, the pursuit of knowledge). I am afraid they will believe that I'm a moral degenerate, or that I brainwashed their son. I simply don't know how I can say, "Sorry, sir, I realize you have studied and pursued religion all your life, but I think its all a fairy tale concocted to keep humanity in line, to explain the unfathomable, and to make us feel guilty for using our brains. And furthermore, I find it damaging to children's cognitive and emotional well-being. But as far as Christians go, you're the most Christ-like one I've ever known." And that's my problem, he is so unassumingly good and pious you almost feel wrong not being more like him. He is a wonderful grandpa, a great dad, and very tolerant of different races and religions (yet I'm unsure if that tolerance will be extended to me when I turn away from Christianity and take his son and grandsons with me). Plus he is getting along in years as well as battling cancer. See my quandary? It seems that I'm doomed to be either a homewrecker or a frustrated sheep.

 

I have always despised the human compulsion to label and categorize everyone. It's so much easier to dismiss a person's opinions when you can slap a label on them. And what label is more vilified among Christianity than that of atheist? *Sigh*  In the timeless words of Popeye the Sailor Man, "I am what I am."     

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Xiana, I appreciate your input. I will look for that book, and read your letter if my little "monkeys' nephews" (i.e., my kids) grant me the leisure time. Thanks for putting your extimony on here, it was the first thing I read on this site, and your openness and the acceptance you received encouraged me to share my story. I also have a comment to add to your "Sexual healing" post, hopefully I can get around to doing it before the comments are closed.

 

MOHO, Ha, ha, you're welcome. Don't give me too much credit, I was merely a glorified construction worker with an M-16.

 

I concur with your statement regarding "coming out", I have always sympathized with the LGBT plight, it was weird to realize that like them, I had been hiding the real me for fear of what people would think. So it may be a strange analogy, but its still quite apt.

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In the end this decision is a purely personal matter, and something you need to consider alongside your particular circumstances.

 

I have only sort of partially mentioned my change in views.  My wife knows I have issues with Christianity.  She seems to have decided to ignore that for the time being.  So be it.  To force the issue would effectively mean considerable distress for her in  terms of family and social relationships.  I can do with an extra hour or so of sleep on a Sunday anyway - even if it is on a pew.  But yes, there are frustrations.

 

You have no moral obligation to tell anyone of your deconversion.  Neither have you any moral obligation to protect Christians from your deconversion.  You can only weigh up the consequences and decide what route you find most palatable.

 

There is no right or wrong.  The only thing I would say - make sure you and your husband are agreed on the approach to take, particularly if there is a danger of upset within his family.

 

All the best.

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So, an update on my situation: my husband has been becoming gradually more receptive to the agnostic/atheist line of thought (luckily for the both of us, we have had major skepticism regarding religion for most of our lives, so this just the sum of those doubts coming to fruition). I have been very careful not to force the issue, and we have been having thought-provoking discussions about theology. Last night we watched StarTalk with Neil Degrasse Tyson, he interviewed Richard Dawkins and a Jesuit priest. Great show, I highly recommend it! Last week we watched Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman, an episode titled: "Did Man Invent God?", a fascinating study on how our minds are hard-wired to look for connections and meaning in our perplexing world. I think many of you in unequally-yoked relationships may find these shows and others like them helpful in opening up a dialogue with your significant other. The Bill Nye/ Ken Hamm debate may be a good place to start.

 

As for myself, I've been cramming my brain with info since my deconversion in February, and I think its time I took a break. I've never been the ideal model of "a good Christian" but I prayed nearly every night. Now that I no longer pray, combined with the information overload, I am suffering from severe insomnia. My head is swimming (perhaps drowning) with a multitude of thoughts that I'm having. Has anyone else dealt with these problems? Advice would be greatly appreciated.    

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It is good to take a break from all the information once in a while. Something to keep in mind as you continue to deconvert and study is that much of the information is incomplete and will change over time - that's the beauty of science.

 

In the end it doesn't really matter. There are many things we'll never know, but that doesn't make ridiculous things real. Enjoy the smell of roses and try to live each day to the fullest. Everything else is gravy IMHO. :)

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Welcome :)

 

Thank you for your service.  (We may not be from the same country, but we are allies, and service anywhere should be thanked)

 

I can recommend a book for unequally yoked people called In Faith and In Doubt by Dale McGowan.

 

Good luck, and I hope to see you around here some more.

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The start of your OP was so true:

 

"My conscience objects to Christianity"

 

​No matter how much the church tries to portray the Christian faith as lovely and peaceful, we know the truth. It is vile and wicked and sexist and nasty, nasty stuff.........the church simply must lie to people to sell them this hateful lunacy. Thankfully even some of the clergy are now realising that no much how much glitter you sprinkle on a turd, it is still a turd and they are leaving the fold.

 

I hope that the Cult of Yahweh and His magical, flying on a cloud Son, go the  way of Zeus and co.

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I appreciate the support! Don't worry Burny, I have no illusions of discovering the meaning of life and the secrets of the universe anytime soon. cistinebiggrinA.gif I would like to brush up on my knowledge of science, though. I have a 5-year-old about to start school, and hes taken an interest in science and inventions.

 

 FreeThinkerNZ, I've always wanted to travel to your beautiful county (and the UK too, its where my peeps came from)!

 

Castiel, I concur, especially with the part about a shiny gilded turd, great analogy!

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Objector, I am in the middle of reading In Faith and Doubt, and plan to read Parenting Beyond Belief --- maybe these would interest you?

 

I'm right there with you on the constant reading/watching of information!! I feel like I never sleep, and our schedule has gotten so off course, lol (3 kids, sahm). I can't do much reading or watching when my husband is around because he gets offended easily. We're both pretty outspoken, and although we don't argue or put each other down for how we feel, we are very blunt. So... yeah :/ I'm glad to hear you and your husband are able to take it slow and stay on the high road, LOL. ;)

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So, an update on my situation: my husband has been becoming gradually more receptive to the agnostic/atheist line of thought (luckily for the both of us, we have had major skepticism regarding religion for most of our lives, so this just the sum of those doubts coming to fruition). I have been very careful not to force the issue, and we have been having thought-provoking discussions about theology. Last night we watched StarTalk with Neil Degrasse Tyson, he interviewed Richard Dawkins and a Jesuit priest. Great show, I highly recommend it! Last week we watched Through the Wormhole with Morgan Freeman, an episode titled: "Did Man Invent God?", a fascinating study on how our minds are hard-wired to look for connections and meaning in our perplexing world. I think many of you in unequally-yoked relationships may find these shows and others like them helpful in opening up a dialogue with your significant other. The Bill Nye/ Ken Hamm debate may be a good place to start.

 

As for myself, I've been cramming my brain with info since my deconversion in February, and I think its time I took a break. I've never been the ideal model of "a good Christian" but I prayed nearly every night. Now that I no longer pray, combined with the information overload, I am suffering from severe insomnia. My head is swimming (perhaps drowning) with a multitude of thoughts that I'm having. Has anyone else dealt with these problems? Advice would be greatly appreciated.    

A successful technique is to (i) inventory the religious indoctrination you received (or are currently receiving) as a child, young adult and now, (ii) inventory the peer pressure to comply with that indoctrination's religious dogma you received in the past and are currently receiving and (iii) inventory your past and current fears and concerns.

 

Next, apply rational thinking to these lists.  That will go a long way towards deconstructing and processing them.

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 "I love America, but for the Constitutional ideals we should stand for rather than the finger-pointing, self-righteous circus it has become."

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.  I don't consider myself a patriot whatsoever.  Too many reasons to list, but the level of hypocrisy, back-stabbing, and petty sniping...especially within government...turns me off.

 

Tears came to my eyes when I read what happened to you in the military. :(  I've been a victim of a similar assault--even men are vulnerable--so I empathize.  I do believe in karma, though.

 

At any rate...

 

I understand the struggle to try to believe but then to go back to one's new realization...that's been a struggle for me as well.  Since I have no direct support from fellow non-believers, it's a journey I pretty much have had to power through on my own.  In sum, however, I consider the faith, the pageantry, the prayer, etc as absolute fakery.  An imposter show purely to peddle money from hard-working people.  And, on the whole, it's pretty pathetic.

 

Welcome. :)

 

Andrew

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So sorry to hear that that happened to you, ABrooks. I understand that the stigma for a male rape victim is far worse than for women. I have always been a tomboy with low self-esteem, rape was a scenario I had never considered happening to me. The military is a very male-centric environment, even more so in the Navy Seabees (Seabee is derived from the acronym for Construction Battalion, CB). Being a servicewoman and a Builder (the Navy equivalent of a carpenter), I had to work twice as hard as most men to prove myself. There was a general consensus that all females in the military were either "b!tches, sl#ts, or lesbians". I strove to act, think, and work like one of the guys and distance myself from the standard stereotypes. It was a huge shock when it happened, and instead of fighting back I froze like a rabbit. The aftermath was even worse, those of my superiors who didn't outright call me a liar implied that the role of women in the military was to provide a diversion and release for the "real soldiers" (i.e., the men). I suppose I didn't read the fine print. If you ever need someone to commiserate with, feel free to send me a private message. Thanks for your support.

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Well, I did it! I came out of the closet as an agnostic on facebook (I feel that I am more of an atheist, but I didn't want to elicit a such a negative reaction just yet). I used facebook because I wanted to get it all out in the open without having to explain myself over and over. I also threw in my political stance as a Libertarian, just to dispel the conflicting opinions that have alternately labeled me a liberal or conservative. Hopefully it doesn't alienate my in-laws too much. It feels good to finally be honest!

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Wow, I'm so proud of you! I am so tempted to just get on with it and spill it on Facebook, but I'm just not sure if it's a good idea yet. Like you, I am also further along in deconversion than my husband. He is firmly agnostic, keeping open for the possibility of God being real. I, on the other hand, am just completely done. I have not wavered or gone back and forth or anything, and I think because of that, I just want to be done with the secrecy as well. Kudos to you for your bravery!

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Daffodil, it's definitely a good idea to proceed with caution, if you and your husband aren't on the same page coming out could put too much of a strain on your relationship. I obtained my husbands "permission" first (to clarify: he is not at all controlling, but since we are on the same team, I wanted to be sure he was ok with it). He told me that he didn't give a damn what his family thinks of me, all that matters is how we feel about each other.

 

Unfortunately, I'm not sure if anyone from his family even read my post. I started with a rant for LGBT rights, and how wrong it was to force people to hide their true selves for fear of persecution or ostracism, and then went on to say I was an agnostic. So all the Christians in my feed probably thought: "there she goes again, defending those filthy queers! Scroll faster!" and completely missed the punchline. I received plenty of likes and comments for the post, but not from one single christian. Guess I'll have to keep dropping hints like I have for months until someone catches on!

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They may just be stunned, or wondering why someone would feel this way... gotta remember how you felt at your most dedicated, ya know? But I'm so glad you did it, and it's off your chest... inspires me to do the same :) .... some day ;P

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CO, thanks for the warnings. I lay awake the other night unable to sleep and mentally composed exactly what I would say on Facebook, getting more and more determined as I lay there. I decided I would check with my husband in the morning first before proceeding. Of course, in the light of a new day I thought better of the whole thing and decided not to do it. I just really hate keeping this big secret!

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Daffodill when I came out the results were imediate and negative. My social support collapsed and I found myself alone with a whole lot of people angry and friends suddenly disowning me. I have no idea how deep you are in christian social life and support or how fundy your social life is will depend upon how coming out will negativly affect your quality of life

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Daffodill when I came out the results were imediate and negative. My social support collapsed and I found myself alone with a whole lot of people angry and friends suddenly disowning me. I have no idea how deep you are in christian social life and support or how fundy your social life is will depend upon how coming out will negativly affect your quality of life

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Agreed, darthcool. Coming out has amounted to a royal pain in my ass! My family is barely religious, my husband's more so but still a stretch from being fundys. I've been met with bewilderment and disapproval, and that only by the people that hardly know me. I haven't heard a word from the in-laws, I imagine they are waiting til they next see us. I'm sure it will become a family-wide lecture about how misguided I am, that the devil will claim my soul, blah, blah, blah. Still, I have no regrets! I may be singing a different tune after the next visit, but at this point, I don't give a damn! I refuse to live a lie to keep others happy! If they hate me due to my lack of faith, that is their problem, not mine! I certainly will not recommended this course of action to anyone that has no support, though. I'm lucky enough to have my husband by my side, and a firm conviction to not let my kids become brainwashed. I know many people do not have that luxury. Best of luck to you both!

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