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Humility


Guest end3

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Guest end3

Went to Sunday school and the subject was humility. This opened discussion of levels of humanity and the need to be humble in order to connect to different levels. And then it turned to abandoning higher levels to not separate ourselves from lower levels.

 

So for some reason, this whole thing is perplexing to me.

 

We seek, we do, we learn, and there are things defined like humility.

 

Humility seems like a quality defined as a consequence of a crappy perspective.

 

Thoughts?

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If you understand MM's post, End, then you should feel what humility is.

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Are you humble enough to apologize to FTNZ for calling her an arrogant bitch, End?

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It's ok BA, I don't expect an apology from End, because it was and is both water off a duck's back, and evidence that my assertive stance made an impact, in a context where End is not used to women being positively assertive or showing their intelligence and being treated as equals.  In fact, I only remember what he said when you bring it up.  But I appreciate your desire to hold him to account, which is a laudable goal.

 

According to the Wikipedia article on humility (emphasis added):

 

 

Humility (adjectival formhumble) is variously seen as the act or posture of lowering oneself in relation to others, or conversely, having a clear perspective and respect for one's place in context. In a religious context this can mean a recognition of self in relation to a God or gods, acceptance of one's limitations, and submission to divine grace as a member of a religion.[1][2] Outside of a religious context, humility is defined as the self-restraint from excessive vanity, and has a moral and/or ethical dimension.[3][4]

Humility, in various interpretations, is widely seen as a virtue in many religious and philosophical traditions, often in contrast to narcissism,hubris and other forms of pride.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the xians were using the first part of this definition, of lowering oneself, as opposed to "having a clear perspective and respect for one's place in context".  The latter is the definition I use.  And yes, it is about "self restraint from excessive vanity" and it has a moral and/or ethical dimension.  It's logical that when you have perspective and respect for one's place in context, you are better prepared to make highly moral/ethical decisions.

 

So often we see in xians "narcissism, hubris, and other forms of pride".  Really, End could not have come up with a better topic for us to use as a way to assess the relative benefits and harms of xianity with.

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Are you humble enough to apologize to FTNZ for calling her an arrogant bitch, End?

 

Well she can be pretty hard headed.  Anything involving homeopathy, even if indirectly inferred is liable to set her off on one.

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Are you humble enough to apologize to FTNZ for calling her an arrogant bitch, End?

 

Well she can be pretty hard headed.  Anything involving homeopathy, even if indirectly inferred is liable to set her off on one.

 

 

Homeopathy?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

 

homeopathic_medicine.jpg

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The way Xtians taught this word to me was to "Stand Down" and "know my place".

I think that word is engrained into Xtians to get them to follow blindlessly. "To know your place and not question God".

 

That very stance made me miss a lot of good opportunities in my life, when applying it to the real world.

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Are you humble enough to apologize to FTNZ for calling her an arrogant bitch, End?

 

Well she can be pretty hard headed.  Anything involving homeopathy, even if indirectly inferred is liable to set her off on one.

 

 

And rightly so, lol.  Homeopathy is the easiest target for a skeptic who specialises in science based medicine.

 

I also respond pretty scathingly to anti-vaxxers, acupuncture and cancer quackery.  Have at it tongue.png

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Most Christians have no real understanding of what true humility is; so it's no surprise, End3, that your church would hold and teach a deeply flawed perspective on the concept.  True humility, acting in tandem with a healthy self esteem, is nothing more than recognizing one's talents and skills and knowing how to, and being willing to, use those talents for the benefit of others.  It has nothing whatever to do with the old, "I'm soooo unworthy" attitude promulgated by modern Christianity.  In essence, in your case, End3, if you recognize that one of your abilities is to keep us lions honest and force us to ensure our arguments and rebuttals are sound, then bringing that talent to the table for our benefit is acting with true humility.  Anyone who preaches any other concept of humility is likely enough just after your money.

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Guest end3

Most Christians have no real understanding of what true humility is; so it's no surprise, End3, that your church would hold and teach a deeply flawed perspective on the concept.  True humility, acting in tandem with a healthy self esteem, is nothing more than recognizing one's talents and skills and knowing how to, and being willing to, use those talents for the benefit of others.  It has nothing whatever to do with the old, "I'm soooo unworthy" attitude promulgated by modern Christianity.  In essence, in your case, End3, if you recognize that one of your abilities is to keep us lions honest and force us to ensure our arguments and rebuttals are sound, then bringing that talent to the table for our benefit is acting with true humility.  Anyone who preaches any other concept of humility is likely enough just after your money.

Good to see you Prof. It just struck me as wrong because it suggests class rather than talents. Upward mobility and downward mobility were mentioned. The connotation was that upward mobility was a function of being better somehow and hence the need for humility.

 

Thanks.

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It's ok BA, I don't expect an apology from End, because it was and is both water off a duck's back, and evidence that my assertive stance made an impact, in a context where End is not used to women being positively assertive or showing their intelligence and being treated as equals.  In fact, I only remember what he said when you bring it up.  But I appreciate your desire to hold him to account, which is a laudable goal.

 

According to the Wikipedia article on humility (emphasis added):

 

 

Humility (adjectival formhumble) is variously seen as the act or posture of lowering oneself in relation to others, or conversely, having a clear perspective and respect for one's place in context. In a religious context this can mean a recognition of self in relation to a God or gods, acceptance of one's limitations, and submission to divine grace as a member of a religion.[1][2] Outside of a religious context, humility is defined as the self-restraint from excessive vanity, and has a moral and/or ethical dimension.[3][4]

Humility, in various interpretations, is widely seen as a virtue in many religious and philosophical traditions, often in contrast to narcissism,hubris and other forms of pride.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the xians were using the first part of this definition, of lowering oneself, as opposed to "having a clear perspective and respect for one's place in context".  The latter is the definition I use.  And yes, it is about "self restraint from excessive vanity" and it has a moral and/or ethical dimension.  It's logical that when you have perspective and respect for one's place in context, you are better prepared to make highly moral/ethical decisions.

 

So often we see in xians "narcissism, hubris, and other forms of pride".  Really, End could not have come up with a better topic for us to use as a way to assess the relative benefits and harms of xianity with.

 

He insulted me for having MS - said it made me dumb, or something.

 

I'd much rather be insulted for asserting my intelligence, but I guess that with this character any insult is a good insult (i.e., very glad he does not like me).

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Are you humble enough to apologize to Thackerie for insulting her, End?

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Are you humble enough to apologize to everyone in the thread where you called them fucking idiots, End?

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Maybe the whole humility thing wouldn't be so perplexing to you End if you stopped thinking about it abstract terms like different levels of humanity.

 

Instead try thinking about humility realistically, as the key to having grace-filled relationships with us.

 

When it comes to grace, you should be a natural and humility should come naturally to you, right?

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You make good points, BAA; however, you should keep in mind that everything, including humility, is subjective in End3's world.

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Guest end3

You make good points, BAA; however, you should keep in mind that everything, including humility, is subjective in End3's world.

"End's world, End's world, party time excellent"...lol

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Humility is simple… just realize you can always learn more and that others always have things to teach.

 

It's not rocket science… remain teachable and realize you don't know shit.

 

humble = teachable.

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Guest end3

Maybe the whole humility thing wouldn't be so perplexing to you End if you stopped thinking about it abstract terms like different levels of humanity.

 

Instead try thinking about humility realistically, as the key to having grace-filled relationships with us.

 

When it comes to grace, you should be a natural and humility should come naturally to you, right?

The world makes sense to me in Christian terms BAA. Finding value in varied levels of experience and gifting among humans seems reasonable. Too much sacrifice and no understanding of one's experience and gifts make for imbalance imo. Many folks don't know what "God" is to them or are restricted in realizing that.

 

So you find Christians with a view of humility that is mis-based.

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Went to Sunday school and the subject was humility. This opened discussion of levels of humanity and the need to be humble in order to connect to different levels. And then it turned to abandoning higher levels to not separate ourselves from lower levels.

 

So for some reason, this whole thing is perplexing to me.

 

We seek, we do, we learn, and there are things defined like humility.

 

Humility seems like a quality defined as a consequence of a crappy perspective.

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts?

 

Dump that esoteric sounding Sunday School Churchy bullshit and apologise to those you've insulted.  Take a big inhale of real humility.  Don't worry, you won't be sent to Hell for it, you semi-intolerable idiot.

 

In fact, why don't you dump your psuedo-philosophical horseshit too. Quit with the word salad baloney and stop trying to look smarter than you are. It makes you look dumb. 

 

Don't take offence, End3, I intended none. You asked for thoughts, and those are mine. I'm just trying to speak the truth in love. 

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Guest end3

 

Went to Sunday school and the subject was humility. This opened discussion of levels of humanity and the need to be humble in order to connect to different levels. And then it turned to abandoning higher levels to not separate ourselves from lower levels.

 

So for some reason, this whole thing is perplexing to me.

 

We seek, we do, we learn, and there are things defined like humility.

 

Humility seems like a quality defined as a consequence of a crappy perspective.

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts?

 

Dump that esoteric sounding Sunday School Churchy bullshit and apologise to those you've insulted.  Take a big inhale of real humility.  Don't worry, you won't be sent to Hell for it, you semi-intolerable idiot.

 

In fact, why don't you dump your psuedo-philosophical horseshit too. Quit with the word salad baloney and stop trying to look smarter than you are. It makes you look dumb. 

 

Don't take offence, End3, I intended none. You asked for thoughts, and those are mine. I'm just trying to speak the truth in love.

 

You take people like Thack. I have apologized several times to her. She doesn't wish to accept. Here's one for your record books Dude. Secondly, NZ and I don't really get along. We did, and then we didn't for some reason. If she is willing to fill me in on how I have specifically offended her, I will consider apologizing.

 

Thirdly, I solicited opinions here to get a different perspective than the "churchy" one. Their righteous hierarchy was what was not sitting well with me. The Prof made a point that I could understand.

 

So how else would you wish me to "correct" myself. Thanks.

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Are you humble enough to apologize to everyone in the thread where you called them fucking idiots, End?

Wow I barely know the OP and already he sounds like a douche.

Yikes...

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Humility as a christian was a concept that disgusts me now. It was always the: I am nothing and God is everything and without Jesus I can't do anything...and it is all about me me me...if you think about it. Also it is like I should be available to others to do good when at the same time I am not caring for myself rightly because of the I am nothing groove. At lest that's my observation.

 

I am learning a new kind of humility right now. And even if this sounds strange it really starts with me. Like how do I treat myself. Just at my last talk with my psychologist she made me realize how I constantly push  and criticize myself. I get up and was like: Common, twenty more minutes and then you gotta open your eyes. Then ok, now open your eyes and in ten minutes you get up. Then, common get up, you ll be late! Then now you gotta skip breakfast...again...And then I realized how I was hurrying everywhere even though there was no need to hurry. And I was humble to let go of that crazy strategy that once was necessary to survive but now only made me impatient and stressed out and unhappy about myself. And then something interesting happened. Letting go on being hard on myself also made me more patient and graceful with others. I can be kind to real jerks, just because I am kind to myself.

 

So I am highly convinced, real humbleness, not the kind you do but the kind you are, comes when you practice awareness and are conscious of your own needs so you can build up your own resources and then have something to give.

Also part of it is to accept my humanity, means to know I am perfect just the way I am. My mess, and my shortcomings are ok and I don't need to be critical about it. And to understand that the only person I am responsible for is me. I take my own decisions and it is no one elses business and it is also not my business to tell anyone what he should do. If someone does something I would do differently, it is his own decision.

 

It is that simple.

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Went to Sunday school and the subject was humility. This opened discussion of levels of humanity and the need to be humble in order to connect to different levels. And then it turned to abandoning higher levels to not separate ourselves from lower levels.

 

So for some reason, this whole thing is perplexing to me.

 

We seek, we do, we learn, and there are things defined like humility.

 

Humility seems like a quality defined as a consequence of a crappy perspective.

 

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts?

 

Dump that esoteric sounding Sunday School Churchy bullshit and apologise to those you've insulted.  Take a big inhale of real humility.  Don't worry, you won't be sent to Hell for it, you semi-intolerable idiot.

 

In fact, why don't you dump your psuedo-philosophical horseshit too. Quit with the word salad baloney and stop trying to look smarter than you are. It makes you look dumb. 

 

Don't take offence, End3, I intended none. You asked for thoughts, and those are mine. I'm just trying to speak the truth in love.

 

You take people like Thack. I have apologized several times to her. She doesn't wish to accept. Here's one for your record books Dude. Secondly, NZ and I don't really get along. We did, and then we didn't for some reason. If she is willing to fill me in on how I have specifically offended her, I will consider apologizing.

 

Thirdly, I solicited opinions here to get a different perspective than the "churchy" one. Their righteous hierarchy was what was not sitting well with me. The Prof made a point that I could understand.

 

So how else would you wish me to "correct" myself. Thanks.

 

 

Not that I ever saw.

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Maybe the whole humility thing wouldn't be so perplexing to you End if you stopped thinking about it abstract terms like different levels of humanity.

 

Instead try thinking about humility realistically, as the key to having grace-filled relationships with us.

 

When it comes to grace, you should be a natural and humility should come naturally to you, right?

The world makes sense to me in Christian terms BAA. Finding value in varied levels of experience and gifting among humans seems reasonable. Too much sacrifice and no understanding of one's experience and gifts make for imbalance imo. Many folks don't know what "God" is to them or are restricted in realizing that.

 

So you find Christians with a view of humility that is mis-based.

 

 

Uh no.  

 

I find that your Christianity isn't Christian or Christ-like, End.  If it were, then you wouldn't act, think and speak as you do.  Read the Book of James and keep reading it until you see that your faith is DEAD unless your life is changed by it.  Your unChrist-like version of Christianity is a sham because Jesus is DEAD within you.

 

Only you can bring Jesus back to life again within you - by living, acting and thinking like him.

 

You could start doing that right here in this forum.

.

.

.

Will you?

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