A Dumb (But Honest) Question

[NoOne]

Hello everyone, happy Saturday I hope you're all doing okay.

I have a really dumb but honest question. Something about it strikes me as really juvenile and naïve, but at the same time, it is a very genuine question that I want genuine answers to.

I was thinking about the saying "be yourself". And I was thinking (by that I mean, over-analyzing)...being yourself means being the person who you want to be and not going down the paths people are trying to make for you. It means turning into the person you want to be, doing what you want to do, pursuing your dreams, you get the point. You can be whoever you want to be and you shouldn't let people try to bring you down because you aren't becoming what/who they want you to be. I connected this to my atheism. I thought about how much happier, and honestly smarter and open-minded, I've become since I left religion. I'm confident in atheism and I really feel like now I have a better understanding of the world than when I was a Christian. There are still a lot of Christians who are trying to pull me in their direction, and because of my age, at the moment I have to follow. Not whole-heartedly, but still. But at the end of the day, I know what I am and what I believe. I'm a happy atheist.

I used this logic and line of reasoning for theists. What if Christians are being themselves and are happier as Christians? I have heard countless stories (otherwise known as "testimonies") of people who were addicts, lost, depressed, or suicidal when becoming a Christian saved their lives or made them change for the better. There are a lot of people who feel like being Christian gives them some sort of individuality or purpose, and they can pursue their dreams. I'm not saying I agree with this, I think this is all bullshit. But if being Christian means that they're being themselves and they are happy, is that a bad thing? Should I try to change them because I don't like that? It would make me no better than the Christians who are forcing me to change for them. I feel like it would make me worse even because I know what that feeling is like and I already know it's bad and controlling to try to take charge of someone else. I don't know why I jumped to Christians, this can really be replaced by anything else. Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim, whatever. Then again, it's a double-edged sword...I think trying to find yourself in religion is destructive and I do believe that religion does more harm than good. I don't know where to stand on this.

I was wondering what everyone on here would think. I literally was just pondering this idea not even an hour ago and it's really on my mind now.

[Brother Jeff]

Some people are happy as Christians, but many others are seriously damaged by their involvement in the cult. You can't change anybody else, but you can try to reason with them and plant seeds of reason and rational thought. Glory!

[♦ Fuego ♦]

I knew people that came into the church from families that demanded perfection, and the church gave them a father figure who "accepts you as you are". Others found the stories of love to be transforming and made it a life goal to share the gospel. Sometimes people make choices that run them into the ground, be it drugs, shallow relationships, spending money like there will be no bills, etc. One ex-addict told me that he wanted to just feel normal. The high was no longer really high, it just made him not so down. One guy had a mother that shoveled shame on him for everything - he talked too loudly, he was gangly and tall, his hair blazing red, etc. That drove him to churches where they told him he could be a warrior for god and a prophet leading souls to Christ. But the controlling manipulative religion ate at him all the while he strove to submit. Eventually he went over the edge and it took medical intervention to help him back, and leaving fundamentalism for a structured belief system (Catholicism). He still finds comfort in it, so I don't bring up religion when we are together.

 

So some do find comfort and a more meaningful life in the church, but it comes at a cost that they never admit (their own humanness is now evil, the god of the universe would burn them alive forever and they deserve it, all the questions they have are not worthy of answers, submit or you'll piss off god). Girls find friends in the congregation that aren't after their bodies (but the guys including pastors still WANT them and wank, then feel sinful and seek mercy). In short they have to deny being human, and claim to be born again and try to act like it. And believers are taught to only ever express how wonderful Jesus is, especially when talking to unbelievers. They have terrible times of doubt, not feeling any love at all from this god, getting no answers only pressure to continue believing, watching the others around them that seem to "get it" and not realizing that everyone goes through the same crap. Some are just better at playing the church game.

 

By the time I left the church, I fully believed that the literal presence of god was available to those who would submit in fasting and prayer, that all disease could be healed, that the dead could be raised. I spent hours worshiping and singing songs of adoration. It seemed so real. It never was. It was all in my head, and made to seem more real by the other humans that also believed it to all be true. I think those that are better off believing have never found their own self worth, their own path in life, and felt ok making healthful choices instead of popular ones. Some of my own family still struggle with feeling ok for standing up for themselves, because it was pounded into them from an early age to be quiet and subservient, because GOD wants it that way. I've done what I can to help them out of that rut, and will continue to do so. That is where the "just be" comes in. You don't need to perform, you don't need to deny yourself, you can simply be and express yourself in the ways you want. You can make a good profit in business. You can not be a doormat for abusive people. Getting a healthful self image is essential in defeating the power of religion.

[TheOutsider]

I think the problem comes when you aren't given a real choice in the matter. [insert_religion_here] parents for instance, want their kids to be {Insert_religion_here}, regardless of what the kid/s want. Sure, they might dangle the option of not believing in the religion, but I suspect more often than not it's just a trap to identify any potential problems, or subvert it via guilt trips galore. Of course I'm kinda misanthropic when it comes to religious parents, your mileage may vary.

 

Those that choose to be religious of their own volition are probably reasonably happy about it, or at least they would act like it. Whoever they force into it later down the road probably won't be, I know I wasn't.

 

Be yourself, as long as it conforms with [insert_familial/cultural_religion_or_culturally_acceptable_behavior_here], otherwise definitely don't be yourself. Not that that's entirely a bad thing, at least for the latter, but it does poke a hole in the saying. Also, I'm kind of a cynic, so your mileage may vary, again.

 

And, I still don't really understand what "be yourself" actually means in practice. So, here, have a salt lick.

[Ellinas]

I suppose "be yourself", insofar as it means anything, comes down to "live in the way that makes you happy"

 

Seems to me that the simple fact is that what is right for one person is not necessarily right for another.  You are a happy atheist.  May you continue long so to be.  I am happy as a pagan.  As things stand, I propose to remain so regardless of what anyone else might think.  I know those who claim and seem to be happy as Christians of various different descriptions.  I do not believe what they believe, but they are welcome to their beliefs (as long as they don't try to pressurize me into their belief system).  Long may they continue to be happy.

 

The problem is that we tend to have an unfortunate habit of believing that only our own way is the right one.  That seems to me to be a mistake.  We all have our individual characters, needs and ways of seeing the world.

 

Generally, I would not seek to change any indvidual Christian, nor the atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Thelemite etc ad infinitum.  Equally, however, I expect the same from these - not to seek to change me - and am prepared to rebel when faced by evangelical religion and those who pressurize others to follow a particular way because it "must" somehow be right.

 

So, I think you are basically correct.  "Be yourself" - whatever that "self" might be.

[GraphicsGuy]

My understanding during my Christian years was that I was to "die to my self". My "self" didn't matter. It was all about becoming who I was supposed to be "in Jesus".

 

What did that mean?

 

Beats the fuck out of me. Made sense at the time because I really believed that I didn't matter and that what I wanted didn't matter.

 

Well, my "true self", buried way deep inside of me, had other ideas. Suppression comes out in ugly ways at times.

 

My "true self" was definitely not ugly or evil or anything, but sometimes people will do anything to get out of prison.

 

Letting my "true self" out and to come to the surface and to leave religion behind was the best thing that I ever did for myself.

 

Fuck dying to my self. I'm gonna live.

[florduh]

By definition, Christians aren't supposed to "be themselves." They are to mold themselves to whatever ideals their religious leadership puts forth. Many people trapped in extreme cults are deliriously happy.

[Bhim]

Well, I'm not going to comment on the general ethic of "be yourself," since I do have a take on this and don't want to derail this thread.  But regarding allowing Christians to be themselves, in theory this would be fine with me, but only insofar as their being Christian had nothing to do with me.  Evangelical Christianity seeks the conversion of people away from my religion, and therefore one of its purported goals is the extermination of my way of life.  If Christians magically stopped all proselytization tomorrow, I would stop undermining their efforts.  However, proselytism is a tenet of their religion, so I don't see missionary work going away anytime soon.

[wyson]

I think the damage religion can do depends to a large degree on your own personality and the social construct in which you live. For my conservative evangelical mum, who never had to worry about money or making a living in her whole life (well off parents, then straight into marriage to a well off man) was free to choose her own construct and picked a social reality that suited her personal preferences.

 

For me, raised with her values, trying to make my way in the world the same faith was disasterous.

 

There were quite a few reasons why my faith unraveled, but one of the big nails in the coffin was going out to work and seeing that the world did not work on fundamentalist Christian principles and that these principles in no sane way could ever provide any solutions for problems I was facing on a daily, personal level.

 

Its total lack of explainatory power however isn't something a person like my mom who has been cocooned all her life could perceive. So in a sense, her faith is right for her. It provides her with security, a sense of purpose and strong sense of belonging and community. She is not unreasonable in this sense; her circumstance and social reality is totally different to mine. Don't get me wrong. I still pity her. She will never understand her life nor be able to contextualise it in reality. She will die having lived in a bubble. But then again she doesn't care and doesn't have to.

 

Its something I have had to accept. The majority of people don't care about the truth beyond their own happiness, and they will willingly blind themselves and others in order to perpetuate that which makes them happy, which lets them feel in control of their lives, reality be damned. Tis human nature.

[NoOne]

Well, I'm not going to comment on the general ethic of "be yourself," since I do have a take on this and don't want to derail this thread.

No it's okay go right ahead!