Guest sylensikeelyoo Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 So I've recently begun this journey, and its very new, confusing, fear inducing, and liberating and amazing all at once. Sure everyone here can relate. So when I was a Christian, I made a promise to myself and God that I was going to raise my children Christian, you know, like I thought I was supposed to do. Well, since everything is still so new and I'm processing everything going on inside of me at the moment, I still have not come out to my friends and family....that includes my children. My oldest child is 8 and he's noticed we've stopped going to church. He loves going, and he still reads his scriptures with me and talks about his faith and asks me questions....lately his questions have consisted of why we've stopped going to Church and why I don't want to talk about Jesus anymore. I have NO FUCKING CLUE what to tell him. I am just not ready to talk to ANYONE about this (except for all of you). I want to make it a point to always be open and honest with my children about things while still maintaining that parental distance of authority, security, and love. I need to know how to tell my children about this in a developmentally appropriate way, yet still maintain my privacy in this matter until I get my head together. I am still pretty mindfucked as a result of over 25 years of indoctrination, pain, and abuse. I don't want to subject my children to what I went through, but I still want them to find their own way spiritually. I am just so totally at a loss right now of how to proceed from here. Any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted May 26, 2015 Moderator Share Posted May 26, 2015 I took it slow with my wife and kids, dropping hints and planting seeds. We watched science documentaries and explored ideas for a long time before I told them that I no longer believed. That seemed to work well for the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Just to clarify, have you stopped taking your kids to church? It sounds like your 8 year old enjoys going... is it possible for him to still go, which would make it into two separate issues for him, ie I can still go but Mom doesn't, instead of I don't get to go anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted May 26, 2015 Moderator Share Posted May 26, 2015 Oh, yeah, I also continued to attend church and tithe for a year after losing my faith... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Outright honesty is good for kids. I think it is good for them to know that adults are always growing and changing and learning as well. I wish I had known that when I was a kid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I would just tell them that "I don't believe that stuff anymore". When they ask why I would say "Because it doesn't make sense to me anymore". Don't feel bad about ending church attendance. When your kids move out on their own they can make their own choices about which church to attend, if any. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I think if I was a kid who enjoyed going to church and seeing friends there, if that was suddenly stopped, it would feel bad, and I would probably resent my parent's deconversion, and be more likely to buy into the crap other adults said about it. Whereas if I could keep going, I would be more likely to respect my parent's decision and to learnt from it and eventually lose interest in church. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sylensikeelyoo Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I think if I was a kid who enjoyed going to church and seeing friends there, if that was suddenly stopped, it would feel bad, and I would probably resent my parent's deconversion, and be more likely to buy into the crap other adults said about it. Whereas if I could keep going, I would be more likely to respect my parent's decision and to learnt from it and eventually lose interest in church. This is a really good point. My little guy loves going and seeing his friends and learning his bible verses. I considered just taking him and dropping him off there, or sending him with a friend. The only problem with this is that I am not ready to explain to people why I am not going anymore. I know people will ask me why I'm sending my kids and not going. I'm just not ready to talk about it yet. Its too personal to me at the moment. I guess, as a temporary solution, while I am still processing everything, I can hang around at church and do the pretending thingy. I know lots of folks do this all the time. Its something really out of my comfort zone though, as I am a pretty straightforward person...faking is not my thing. In this case however, it feels like its my only option, as my children are my top priority. Until I can bring myself to be comfortable talking about this to people, even giving a simple answer such as "I just don't want to," or "I just don't believe this stuff anymore," I feel as though I've put myself between a rock and a hard spot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sylensikeelyoo Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I took it slow with my wife and kids, dropping hints and planting seeds. We watched science documentaries and explored ideas for a long time before I told them that I no longer believed. That seemed to work well for the kids. I think I must do the same. Just take it slow. Keep going to church, keep doing what I do till I'm ready to talk about this out loud to people. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 This is a really good point. My little guy loves going and seeing his friends and learning his bible verses. I considered just taking him and dropping him off there, or sending him with a friend. The only problem with this is that I am not ready to explain to people why I am not going anymore. I know people will ask me why I'm sending my kids and not going. I'm just not ready to talk about it yet. Its too personal to me at the moment. I guess, as a temporary solution, while I am still processing everything, I can hang around at church and do the pretending thingy. I know lots of folks do this all the time. Its something really out of my comfort zone though, as I am a pretty straightforward person...faking is not my thing. In this case however, it feels like its my only option, as my children are my top priority. Until I can bring myself to be comfortable talking about this to people, even giving a simple answer such as "I just don't want to," or "I just don't believe this stuff anymore," I feel as though I've put myself between a rock and a hard spot. In my opinion, getting your kids away from indoctrination is the best thing you can do for them. If they will miss fun programs or social interaction there are other ways to get those things. Take your kids to the park or get them involved in some other program. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 This is a really good point. My little guy loves going and seeing his friends and learning his bible verses. I considered just taking him and dropping him off there, or sending him with a friend. The only problem with this is that I am not ready to explain to people why I am not going anymore. I know people will ask me why I'm sending my kids and not going. I'm just not ready to talk about it yet. Its too personal to me at the moment. I guess, as a temporary solution, while I am still processing everything, I can hang around at church and do the pretending thingy. I know lots of folks do this all the time. Its something really out of my comfort zone though, as I am a pretty straightforward person...faking is not my thing. In this case however, it feels like its my only option, as my children are my top priority. Until I can bring myself to be comfortable talking about this to people, even giving a simple answer such as "I just don't want to," or "I just don't believe this stuff anymore," I feel as though I've put myself between a rock and a hard spot. In my opinion, getting your kids away from indoctrination is the best thing you can do for them. If they will miss fun programs or social interaction there are other ways to get those things. Take your kids to the park or get them involved in some other program. I'm not advocating taking them to church forever, but just easing the transition because changes stresses children. They are not emotionally developed enough to understand why they would suddenly have to make this change. Over a few months it could become clearer to them. It would be worth reassuring them they can still see their friends for play dates or something. A few years ago I watched an 8 year old try cope with not seeing his friend anymore because of a falling out between the adults. That was very hard on the child. There is plenty of time to change the messages the kids are getting about religion... most kids seem to grow out of it. But if extended family think a parent is ripping a kid out of church, there can be all kinds of interference and strife. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sylensikeelyoo Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 @Free Thinker I agree. I also want to ease out myself, as I am still processing my new thought patterns and getting used to not having a god anymore. Its bizarre to me and new and scary. I also want to watch more science videos that are developmentally appropriate for my kids with them and pore through kid friendly science books....secular ones, not bullshit creationist ones. I am not getting rid of our bibles just yet, as they are a great reference point for everything wrong with our religion, and I intend to point this out to my children as they grow older. I do NOT, HOWEVER, want to hinder their spiritual journey. I don't want to sway my kids to my chosen path, but I want to teach them to think critically of everything. I'm becoming quite the skeptic in my old age lol. But I digress. This is very good advice. Thank you everyone. I just need to give it time, ease out of church slowly, and answer my children's questions simply and honestly....as I am ready. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 27, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2015 TrueFreedom and FreeTinkerNZ have both pretty much summed up what I would have suggested, so I won't belabor the fine points already made. However, I would suggest reading bedtime stories to the kids from different religions. Redneck Jr. finds the Buddhist stories especially alluring and has even come to enjoy quite a few stories from the Mohammedan faith. Sprinkled in with Noah's flood, the Talking Snake, and Thor's Hammer, we get to learn about a variety of different myths and beliefs, while learning a valuable lesson or two about tolerance at the same time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 27, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted May 27, 2015 They're kids. Get them involved in a less harmful activity like full contact football or base jumping. They will make new friends who do fun activities and forget about their stint in the cult. Even Scouting is a better option. Diversion seems to work with the kids as long as they're occupied and having fun with other kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overcame Faith Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I think if I was a kid who enjoyed going to church and seeing friends there, if that was suddenly stopped, it would feel bad, and I would probably resent my parent's deconversion, and be more likely to buy into the crap other adults said about it. Whereas if I could keep going, I would be more likely to respect my parent's decision and to learnt from it and eventually lose interest in church. I totally agree with FTNZ on this! It is good advice. Besides, with your head in a swirl now, now may not be a good time to try and explain things to your children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewTomlinson Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 To those who advocate immediately extracting children from the church: I get where you're coming from and the strong feelings behind it, but it's really not an emergency. Most of us here were subjected to some form of indoctrination and we still escaped. I certainly didn't have doubting parents to make that easier on me. So this kid has a head start either way. Balancing religious teaching with other points of view at home and a solid example of skepticism from the parent(s) seems perfectly reasonable to me. Besides, denying children the ability to make any decision at all sets a bad precedent. Children are people too. Any of us would be rightfully angry if someone tried to railroad us into a particular pattern of thought. Empathy is central to my worldview, so I do encourage you to consider how that little person is feeling before making decisions on his behalf. If he enjoys going and has friends there, let him enjoy his friendships. When he's older, he may very well decide on his own that it's not for him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 So I've recently begun this journey, and its very new, confusing, fear inducing, and liberating and amazing all at once. Sure everyone here can relate. So when I was a Christian, I made a promise to myself and God that I was going to raise my children Christian, you know, like I thought I was supposed to do. Well, since everything is still so new and I'm processing everything going on inside of me at the moment, I still have not come out to my friends and family....that includes my children. My oldest child is 8 and he's noticed we've stopped going to church. He loves going, and he still reads his scriptures with me and talks about his faith and asks me questions....lately his questions have consisted of why we've stopped going to Church and why I don't want to talk about Jesus anymore. I have NO FUCKING CLUE what to tell him. I am just not ready to talk to ANYONE about this (except for all of you). I want to make it a point to always be open and honest with my children about things while still maintaining that parental distance of authority, security, and love. I need to know how to tell my children about this in a developmentally appropriate way, yet still maintain my privacy in this matter until I get my head together. I am still pretty mindfucked as a result of over 25 years of indoctrination, pain, and abuse. I don't want to subject my children to what I went through, but I still want them to find their own way spiritually. I am just so totally at a loss right now of how to proceed from here. Any advice? "Children, I believe Jesus has put it on our hearts to go outside on Sunday and see more of his beautiful creation. God doesn't want us to miss out on the mountains, trees, parks etc etc. So we're going to go do that on Sunday. Bring one of your friends along." "Children , I believe Jesus has put it on our hearts to join sports teams or other (non-religious affiliated) clubs and organizations so we can become more well rounded people and spread goodness to our fellow humans." "Child who loves to read scripture, look at the many fascinating books in this library (or bookstore) that Jesus has provided us to read...(fiction that will blow the doors off the uber boring fiction of the bible). What do you think you would like to read, child? What interests you? " "Why dont I like to talk about Jesus anymore? Jesus has put it on my heart that we should quietly and humbly pray to him but also remember that he made this world so that we might enjoy it and all the wonderful things it has to offer. He has told me that we should go out and have fun together, Mom and son. Exploring our world for it's own sake and our own personal happiness. That is what Jesus wants for us. To enjoy the world, not sit in a pew every Sunday." Phase Jesus out, like others here have mentioned. Down the road a ways present the philosophy to your child that , "Jesus has put it on my heart that we should learn to take care of ourselves. Jesus wants us to think for ourselves. He trusts that we can make our own decisions, even though he watches over us...." --------- People have told you for many years what Jesus says, even though it's really just what is in their head. You can do the same thing with your child. Jesus can say whatever you want him to say. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 They're kids. Get them involved in a less harmful activity like full contact football or base jumping. They will make new friends who do fun activities and forget about their stint in the cult. Even Scouting is a better option. Diversion seems to work with the kids as long as they're occupied and having fun with other kids. +1. How long would a kid enjoy church if no other kids were there? Probably not too long. So take your child to some other non-church event involving other children, on a Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sylensikeelyoo Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Andrew and midniterider have very good points and that is AMAZING advice,guys thanks so much. I've also noticed, and someone else brought this up too, that my little man has taken an interest in Norse Mythology as well. I can take him to the library on Sundays instead of church, and we can check out books on ancient mythology together, and even study deeper Judeo christian mythology and he may even connect the dots itself! That is such a great idea! Also, instead of Wednesday prayer meetings, we can go to the park and play with his friends from school. He can still see his friends he made at church, as many of them live in our neighborhood. I can arrange play dates for them, and I'll tell my son exactly what you guys suggested: "Jesus wants us to get out into the sunshine and enjoy his marvelous creation, not sit in a pew and pray all day. Our prayers are our private business, not a spectacle".... I can even back that up with scripture too. That's great guys! Thank you all! *hugs* 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burny Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I think if I was a kid who enjoyed going to church and seeing friends there, if that was suddenly stopped, it would feel bad, and I would probably resent my parent's deconversion, and be more likely to buy into the crap other adults said about it. Whereas if I could keep going, I would be more likely to respect my parent's decision and to learnt from it and eventually lose interest in church. We abruptly stopped going to church and told our kids the whole truth right away. It was hard for my son, who loved going to church. But don't overthink this. Why do kids "love church"? Because of the SOCIAL aspect. They love their FRIENDS - not the church itself and not attending worship services. When we still allowed him to play with his church friends and make new ones, the whole issue went away quickly. It all depends if you're a "rip the band aid off fast or slow" person... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeThinkerNZ Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I think if I was a kid who enjoyed going to church and seeing friends there, if that was suddenly stopped, it would feel bad, and I would probably resent my parent's deconversion, and be more likely to buy into the crap other adults said about it. Whereas if I could keep going, I would be more likely to respect my parent's decision and to learnt from it and eventually lose interest in church. We abruptly stopped going to church and told our kids the whole truth right away. It was hard for my son, who loved going to church. But don't overthink this. Why do kids "love church"? Because of the SOCIAL aspect. They love their FRIENDS - not the church itself and not attending worship services. When we still allowed him to play with his church friends and make new ones, the whole issue went away quickly. It all depends if you're a "rip the band aid off fast or slow" person... Yes, allowing them to still play with their church friends and make new ones is the key here. It's the friends they would miss if they were cut off immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leahbekah Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I am so jealous! If it were my choice, we'd find some other social thing to do, and make new friends, while still being available for playdates with the Sunday school kids. Unfortunately, my husband is pretty hard core Christian. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becks Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 If I had deconverted when my kids were young and they were asking me questions about Jesus and the bible I would have taken the same approach with them that I did when they started asking if Santa was real. I wanted them to figure it out for themselves rather than produce stress with an outright "no Santa, Easter bunny, or tooth fairy." I would say things like , "what do you think? It's kind of a fun game." They made up their own minds which probably made it easier for them to not really buy into the whole Christianity belief system. Only one of four is still tinkering around with the idea but won't come out and talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 How is everything going with this? Good i hope. It will be interesting to hear how this pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceWoman Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 8-year-olds are smarter than you think, and they want to be even smarter. (My girl is 9 for reference.) You could be honest with him and tell him that the questions he has asked you have really caused you to think about things in ways you never had before, and that has opened your eyes. Then ask his opinion on some of the issues, and let the two of you come to the conclusion that it's all just kinda silly. Empower him to be part of the investigation. And thank him for helping you think it through. My daughter loves that kind of thing. Also give him the opportunity to suggest other activities: Sunday morning walks at the park when no one else is there. Scouts or art classes at the community center. Let him feel somewhat in control of his destiny and social outlets. (Be careful not to get sucked into sports that are going to have you driving around several times a week; for me, yuck.) He loves memorizing bible verses? Awesome! When my daughter was in second grade at a private school, they memorized some poems as a class. I'm thinking one was something about the morning, by Emily Dickinson. Occasionally she would recite it for our adult friends, and their jaws would drop. One poem was about books taking you away to foreign lands, and included the word "frigate." Again, a jaw-dropper. She also memorized some Shakespeare sonnets, yes at 8 years old. You can find quotes from Confucius or Abe Lincoln or poems by Shel Silverstein or whatever you want. He may tire of this quickly, but strike while that iron is hot. This is also a lesson in human customs. Winter (solstice) festivals and spring fertility festivals and fall harvest feasts and such. Why do people need traditions and repetitive holidays? It's not all bad. The change of seasons affected agrarian people far more deeply than it does us in our modern world of climate controlled houses and year-round food supply. If you can frame religion (and Santa and the Easter Bunny) as fun and memorable ways to explain and celebrate the seasons of life, that can dispel some of the mystery and take away Christianity's claim on our traditions. Try not to make it a small focused negative (dispelling Christianity), but a large positive of opening your world to bigger universal concepts of traditions, fears, myths, desires for good crops, all that kind of stuff. Don't worry about making this a big indepth study -- just throw around some ideas. There are plenty of secular holidays to casually mention as they come up. Why do we have Flag Day and have the day off for President's Day and celebrate Thanksgiving? It's part of human nature to remember, take breaks, tap into concepts that inspire us. You know, Christmas is in December to coincide with winter solstice celebrations that were already established in many cultures thousands of years ago. It really just piggy-backed on the Roman Saturnalia and all the northern European yule log traditions and such. Why did humans have such a deep desire to mark the solstice on the calendar? It's the day when the daylight is no longer getting shorter, but turning around to get longer. Winter kinda sucked for early peoples, so celebrating the hope that it's going to get better was part of their world. Your son will get this, I assure you. Stop focusing on "no" to Christianity and start focusing on "yes" to everything else. You are at a great leaping off point. Don't worry! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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