directionless Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Sometimes I wonder how my life would have been different if I had not grown-up in a society infused with Christianity, been indoctrinated by Christian parents, etc. What if I had grown up in an Islamic culture, Shamanistic culture, Hindu culture, Buddhist culture? Christianity has some very harmful teachings about homosexuality, hell, etc. On the other hand, Christian theology may be the epitome of stupidity among the world's major religions. Hopefully , Western societies will soon be free from all religion, and maybe we can thank the stupidity of Christianity for that outcome? In contrast, non-Christian religious societies like India might be burdened with religious people for a very long time, because non-Christian religions are harder to debunk. What do you think? If I had to believe in some religion, Christianity would be one of my last choices (maybe Islam would be my very last choice IDK). But if I had been indoctrinated into a more sensible religion, I might still be religious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Why do you think non-christian religions are more difficult to debunk? In my experience, they come apart with the same level of scrutiny applied to christianity. Or Santa Claus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Why do you think non-christian religions are more difficult to debunk? In my experience, they come apart with the same level of scrutiny applied to christianity. Or Santa Claus... Hmmm. I'll admit that I don't know much about non-Christian religions. How would we debunk these various religions: - Animism - Paganism - Hinduism - Buddhism - Islam - Judaism It's hard to even define what some of those religions mean. They overlap and have variations. In the case of Judaism, I have read that the Holocaust caused many Jews to question and redefine their faith. I suppose something similar happening to Muslims might cause them a problem. Islam seems to have some of the weaknesses of Christian fundamentalism. Islam apparently claims the Quran is infallible. In other ways, I think Islam is a little more sensible than Christianity. Christianity has got stupidity on steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted May 30, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted May 30, 2015 Any claim that is put forth without supporting evidence or sound reasoning behind it virtually debunks itself. It doesn't matter if the claim is religious, spiritual, scientific, social, political, et cetera. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWinkle Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I think even if a religion is not harmful at this time it can morph into one quickly. The major death knell of Xtianity is Its firm dogma that it is the only faith that god recognizes. But I don't think that will be soon. Death itself is enough reason for many people to buy into a myth without questioning it. Pip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Any claim that is put forth without supporting evidence or sound reasoning behind it virtually debunks itself. It doesn't matter if the claim is religious, spiritual, scientific, social, political, et cetera. There are two directions (for lack of a better word) to refining beliefs IMO. (1) Building the case for belief through logical deductions or statistical inductions (2) Attacking the case for belief through logical incoherencies or statistical anomalies It's true that a person with no opinion must first see a reasonable positive case for belief before debunking that belief is even an issue. Unfortunately, with religion we are almost always dealing with people who were indoctrinated as children. So debunking is necessary. Christianity probably makes more false and contradictory claims than any other religion, so it is easier to debunk. Something like Buddhism would be harder to debunk. Fortunately Buddhism is less harmful to the individual and society. So is it better to have a noxious religion that we can debunk or a mild religion that we can't debunk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 I think even if a religion is not harmful at this time it can morph into one quickly. The major death knell of Xtianity is Its firm dogma that it is the only faith that god recognizes. But I don't think that will be soon. Death itself is enough reason for many people to buy into a myth without questioning it. Pip That is true. Even though Buddhism has a reputation for peacefulness, it can spawn religious violence, superstition, etc. The religions that claim to be the only way to enlightenment/paradise are more likely to persecute other religions IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Sometimes I wonder how my life would have been different if I had not grown-up in a society infused with Christianity, been indoctrinated by Christian parents, etc.What if I had grown up in an Islamic culture, Shamanistic culture, Hindu culture, Buddhist culture?Christianity has some very harmful teachings about homosexuality, hell, etc. On the other hand, Christian theology may be the epitome of stupidity among the world's major religions. Hopefully , Western societies will soon be free from all religion, and maybe we can thank the stupidity of Christianity for that outcome? In contrast, non-Christian religious societies like India might be burdened with religious people for a very long time, because non-Christian religions are harder to debunk.What do you think? If I had to believe in some religion, Christianity would be one of my last choices (maybe Islam would be my very last choice IDK). But if I had been indoctrinated into a more sensible religion, I might still be religious. I agree with what others are saying on this. They all have about the same weight of proof as each of the other ones. As for how you would have turned out? I am not sure but the way i approach it is to think i would be like i am now, just a little further down the road of life. Try not to beat yourself up about it, be happy you can to the realization, some never do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 As long as people look outside themselves for their problems and solutions there will be religions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 I agree with what others are saying on this. They all have about the same weight of proof as each of the other ones. As for how you would have turned out? I am not sure but the way i approach it is to think i would be like i am now, just a little further down the road of life. Try not to beat yourself up about it, be happy you can to the realization, some never do. Let's take fundamentalist Christianity as an example. If I had been indoctrinated to believe that the Bible is inerrant and should be interpreted literally, then debunking my belief would be easy. There is a lot of stuff in the Bible that is just silly and contradictory. A person who believes that the Bible is inerrant merely needs to read the Bible to debunk his/her belief. Now let's take Episcopalian Christianity. If I was indoctrinated in the modern form of Episcopalian theology, how would I debunk that? It's a lot harder IMO. Some might argue that Episcopalian beliefs are not harmful, but I grew-up Episcopalian, and the beliefs harmed me. Some might argue that Hindu beliefs are not harmful, but apparently Hindus in India are harmed by their superstitions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share Posted May 31, 2015 As long as people look outside themselves for their problems and solutions there will be religions. I would define religion to be beliefs that contradict or go beyond scientific beliefs. I know that is only one aspect of religon, but it is an essential aspect IMO. If we can build a culture of atheism that emphasizes skepticism and eliminates the indoctrination of children, then religion will no longer exist except as a symptom of mental instability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 What do you think? If I had to believe in some religion, Christianity would be one of my last choices (maybe Islam would be my very last choice IDK). But if I had been indoctrinated into a more sensible religion, I might still be religious. Scientology is objectively more stupid than Christianity. So is Mormonism. Having said that, Christianity is, without a doubt, very silly. But it's also very clever. Everything works, once you've accepted the system. I think Judaism is a barbaric, primitive religion. The religions which are derived from it get progressively sillier. In my opinion, Buddhism is probably one of the least damaging of the major religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 I agree with what others are saying on this.They all have about the same weight of proof as each of the other ones.As for how you would have turned out? I am not sure but the way i approach it is to think i would be like i am now, just a little further down the road of life. Try not to beat yourself up about it, be happy you can to the realization, some never do.Let's take fundamentalist Christianity as an example. If I had been indoctrinated to believe that the Bible is inerrant and should be interpreted literally, then debunking my belief would be easy. There is a lot of stuff in the Bible that is just silly and contradictory. A person who believes that the Bible is inerrant merely needs to read the Bible to debunk his/her belief.Now let's take Episcopalian Christianity. If I was indoctrinated in the modern form of Episcopalian theology, how would I debunk that? It's a lot harder IMO.Some might argue that Episcopalian beliefs are not harmful, but I grew-up Episcopalian, and the beliefs harmed me.Some might argue that Hindu beliefs are not harmful, but apparently Hindus in India are harmed by their superstitions.If their is an imaginary being or beings involved, you would have to prove to me that it or they exist. That would be my starting point and most religions have that as their base core belief. That is where the debunking starts for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Scientology is objectively more stupid than Christianity. So is Mormonism. Having said that, Christianity is, without a doubt, very silly. But it's also very clever. Everything works, once you've accepted the system. I think Judaism is a barbaric, primitive religion. The religions which are derived from it get progressively sillier. In my opinion, Buddhism is probably one of the least damaging of the major religions. I doubt if fundamentalist Christianity works - even for people who accept the system. But, I never tried being a fundamentalist, so my doubts may be wrong. I agree that Buddhism is the least of the evils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 If their is an imaginary being or beings involved, you would have to prove to me that it or they exist. That would be my starting point and most religions have that as their base core belief. That is where the debunking starts for me. I don't know what your starting point was. My starting point was as a toddler being introduced to the concept of Jesus and God and accepting the beliefs as I accepted the need to brush my teeth. Now if I was going to try a non-Christian religion after debunking Christianity, then my starting point would be as you described. I would need some reason to believe the non-Christian religion - otherwise I would remain atheist. If my parents were Scientologists, then they would have indoctrinated me into that religion, so I would need to debunk Scientology. Coming from a Christian background, I don't need to debunk Scientology - I just see no reason to believe in Scientology. So the point I'm trying to make is that some religions are easier to debunk than others. Buddhism would be much harder to debunk IMO, so a person indoctrinated with Buddhism might never escape it. Of course Buddhism isn't such a harmful religion, so if people are trapped as Buddhists who cares. Maybe we should be thankful that Christianity is stupid and easy to debunk even though it is also harmful? Christianity in the US will probably be a tiny minority in a few decades. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Christianity is the religion coming under cultural and legal assault now. A recent poll revealed that over 50 percent of Democrats in America are in favor of criminalizing certain speech that the government declares offensive. Whether you are Christian or not, that should scare the living daylights out of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorPoet Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 1. I would like to see that poll, do you have a link? I will promise you that this person who tends to vote democrat would not be in favor of that. 2. In what possible way do you think that christianity is under cultural and legal assault? All that you are seeing is a very welcome decrease of the privilege that christians and christianity have enjoyed to the detriment of those who are not christian. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 WarriorPoet, I must will clarify my statement about over 50 percent. My mistake for only mentioning Democrats. The number is 51 percent Democrats. Also twenty or more percent of Republicans also agree. My browser is not letting me copy/paste here, but you can Google "YouGov" and read the poll results. Glad to hear you don't like it either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Christianity is the religion coming under cultural and legal assault now. A recent poll revealed that over 50 percent of Democrats in America are in favor of criminalizing certain speech that the government declares offensive. Whether you are Christian or not, that should scare the living daylights out of you. Bullshit. There is a church on every street corner. What the government won't let you do is discriminate against minorities or take away their civil right on account of your imaginary friend. That isn't an assault on Christianity. It is stopping Christianity from assaulting others. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sylensikeelyoo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I dunno Ironhorse. As much as I can't stand Democraps or Republicants ( I'm pretty libertarian myself) I am really glad to be in this country, even with the douche canoes in DC. I don't think Christians in this country are being persecuted as much as they think they are. Case and point: have you been to Iraq or Syria lately? Have you seen what happens to Christians over there? Last I checked, no one is getting their heads sawn off with knives in THIS country. I'm just saying. In a world of shit, America stinks the least. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I agree with what others are saying on this.They all have about the same weight of proof as each of the other ones.As for how you would have turned out? I am not sure but the way i approach it is to think i would be like i am now, just a little further down the road of life. Try not to beat yourself up about it, be happy you can to the realization, some never do.Let's take fundamentalist Christianity as an example. If I had been indoctrinated to believe that the Bible is inerrant and should be interpreted literally, then debunking my belief would be easy. There is a lot of stuff in the Bible that is just silly and contradictory. A person who believes that the Bible is inerrant merely needs to read the Bible to debunk his/her belief.Now let's take Episcopalian Christianity. If I was indoctrinated in the modern form of Episcopalian theology, how would I debunk that? It's a lot harder IMO.Some might argue that Episcopalian beliefs are not harmful, but I grew-up Episcopalian, and the beliefs harmed me.Some might argue that Hindu beliefs are not harmful, but apparently Hindus in India are harmed by their superstitions.My parents made all 6 of their children go to church from cradle until we were of age to decide. I guess we would have been considered southern baptists. I also remember through the years my father changing his beliefs on the bible from being all literal to some of it being metaphorical. Yes, that was a drastic change for me as a young child and it was very confusing. My older brother also went from southern baptist to Morman. Talk about upsetting the house hold. That was the actual begining of me looking for answers outside of religion. It could start off being harmless and develop into something very dangerous. Sorry you had to go through that also. As for Episcopalian, same rule applies to Jesus as it did for God. I don't have any proof that he existed other than the souce itself. I guess it depends on the process you go about debunking religions as to how hard it is to debunk each and every one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I agree sylensikeelyoo, I have voted Libertarian since the early 90s. I'm not a fan of most Democrats or Republicans. America is still the best place to live and to express our faith or non-faith, but I do think recent events have shown that Christians are being silenced or punished for standing by their convictions. We live in interesting times. We will see, I guess, how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 America is still the best place to live and to express our faith or non-faith, but I do think recent events have shown that Christians are being silenced or punished for standing by their convictions. What convictions would those be? Only persecuting gays, lesbians, transgendered and so on. You are only punished for persecuting minorities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think IH is confusing persecution for correction. I use to do it when i was an Xtian but i understand better now. Example: public schools no longer allowing prayer. To a Xtian it looks like they are being picked on but to everyone else it is a relief because they are not FORCED to do this against their wishes. Xtianity takes the "me, me, me" approach to life but the problem with that is it ignores the other 99.9%. See where the problem lies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
directionless Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Once again, a Christian troll has derailed a conversation - not that this discussion was going anywhere of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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