♦ ficino ♦ Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 America is still the best place to live and to express our faith or non-faith, but I do think recent events have shown that Christians are being silenced or punished for standing by their convictions. Christians demand that their taboos be made obligatory upon everyone. Then people push back. Then Christians say they're being persecuted. But that makes them feel good, because their holy book promotes the idea that the true Christian is persecuted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted June 1, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted June 1, 2015 Does Bono vote libertarian, Ironhorse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Public schools only disallow teacher led prayer (endorsement), not prayer itself. This is an important point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 mymistake: What convictions would those be? Only persecuting gays, lesbians, transgendered and so on. You are onlypunished for persecuting minorities. Please post any news stories of anyone in the GLBT community now being fined or facing jail time for their convictions or who have had to resign their job. ficinco: "Christians demand that their taboos be made obligatory upon everyone. Then people push back. Then Christians say they're being persecuted.But that makes them feel good, because their holy book promotes the idea that the true Christian is persecuted." ficino? When did I say that? My post was about many Americans are now in favor of criminalizing certain speech the state decides is taboo. This is what I said: Christianity is the religion coming under cultural and legal assault now.A recent poll revealed that over 50 percent of Democrats in America are in favor of criminalizing certain speech that the government declares offensive. Whether you are Christian or not, that should scare the living daylights out of you. TheRedneckProfesor asked: Does Bono vote libertarian, Ironhorse? I don't know there about a dozen or so political parties in The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Ravenstar: Public schools only disallow teacher led prayer (endorsement), not prayer itself. This is an important point. Yes it is a very important point. I have always agreed with the Supreme Court's ruling on school prayer. I do not agree with a state sponsored prayer.I have argued this with other Christians. Teacher's and students are free to pray in school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanWinkle Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Ironhorse; Name the incidences and recent events that you think show that Xtians are having a hard time in America, I'd really like to know what you mean and how you can back it up. Rip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Public schools only disallow teacher led prayer (endorsement), not prayer itself. This is an important point. I dont understand why there is any public prayer at all. Doesnt the bible say no to this? Matthew 6:5-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't know if there is a verse that prohibits a prayer in public, but you are right. He does say to say your prayers secret and not shout them on the corner of the street to be seen by others. This is why saying you can't pray in school is so wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Please post any news stories of anyone in the GLBT community now being fined or facing jail time for their convictions or who have had to resign their job. Are you pretending to be dense or are you really this dense? I didn't say or imply any such thing exits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't know if there is a verse that prohibits a prayer in public, but you are right. He does say to say your prayers secret and not shout them on the corner of the street to be seen by others. This is why saying you can't pray in school is so wrong. Because he tells you to pray in PRIVATE. Matthew 6:5-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Public schools only disallow teacher led prayer (endorsement), not prayer itself. This is an important point. I dont understand why there is any public prayer at all. Doesnt the bible say no to this? Matthew 6:5-6 Yeah, that's what I pointed out in Sunday School Class one time, when the teacher was going on and on about prayer in schools -- as in, a public prayer led by the teacher at a public school. He just seemed a bit flabbergasted, didn't have a really good answer. But the week after that, he mentioned that I had made a good point, and that you can't really stop any one from praying, of at least having a "prayer-ful" attitude, just by themselves. (As in, you can pray to god silently, in your own quiet way.) But he decided that the teacher leading a prayer amongst people of varying faiths, or no faith, probably wasn't a truly biblical practice. I considered that a small triumph. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Public schools only disallow teacher led prayer (endorsement), not prayer itself. This is an important point. I dont understand why there is any public prayer at all. Doesnt the bible say no to this? Matthew 6:5-6 Yeah, that's what I pointed out in Sunday School Class one time, when the teacher was going on and on about prayer in schools -- as in, a public prayer led by the teacher at a public school. He just seemed a bit flabbergasted, didn't have a really good answer. But the week after that, he mentioned that I had made a good point, and that you can't really stop any one from praying, of at least having a "prayer-ful" attitude, just by themselves. (As in, you can pray to god silently, in your own quiet way.) But he decided that the teacher leading a prayer amongst people of varying faiths, or no faith, probably wasn't a truly biblical practice. I considered that a small triumph. Exactly! According to Matthew prayer around anyone or anywhere, other than in your own company is not acceptable. That includes church! I think they throw the prayer in right before THE OFFERING to get people in a GIVING MOOD using GUILT as a catalyst to get MONEY. A proper Christian is suppose to pray in PRIVATE and PRIVATE alone or as in the book of Matthew you look like a HYPOCRITE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenstar Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 It goes further than that.. you are supposed to be charitable privately as well… so you avoid the 'glory' of it. There is not one 'christian' who follows the actual commands of Jesus…or the Bible, not one. I don't know if the stupidity of christianity itself is a blessing - but for the most part the vast majority of fundie christians I see on the web are idiots, or at the least, functionally illiterate - so that's something. Is this a blessing? idk.. it is frustrating and scary though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 It's not the stupidity of the Christian faith, it's the stupidity of those who claim to be Christians, but do not follow the teachings of Christ. Many warnings by Jesus and N.T. scriptures that those who do not obey his teachings do not love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 It's not the stupidity of the Christian faith, it's the stupidity of those who claim to be Christians, but do not follow the teachings of Christ. Many warnings by Jesus and N.T. scriptures that those who do not obey his teachings do not love him. Thank you for demonstrating the stupidity of the Christian faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesOpened Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 It's not the stupidity of the Christian faith, it's the stupidity of those who claim to be Christians, but do not follow the teachings of Christ. Many warnings by Jesus and N.T. scriptures that those who do not obey his teachings do not love him. Which Christian faith? That is the real problem isn't it? All of these different denominations claiming to be Christians practice different rituals and have different beliefs. To me that is a red flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 It's not the stupidity of the Christian faith, it's the stupidity of those who claim to be Christians, but do not follow the teachings of Christ. Many warnings by Jesus and N.T. scriptures that those who do not obey his teachings do not love him. Ironhorse the Self-Proclaimed True Christian™ speaks. Woe to all others who claim to be Christian but are not (at least according to Ironhorse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 It's not the stupidity of the Christian faith, it's the stupidity of those who claim to be Christians, but do not follow the teachings of Christ. Many warnings by Jesus and N.T. scriptures that those who do not obey his teachings do not love him. We know those Christians who love Jesus by their fruit, Ironhorse. Care to respond? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhorse Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 "Care to respond?" You said "we" know those Christians who love Jesus by their fruit. I believe there are many Christians like that. Will you please name one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 25, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted June 25, 2015 Folks, by looking at the "wrong" Christians and making a "wrong" interpretation of Scripture, you have failed to grasp True Christianity. We must look to IH. Or maybe Ray. Perhaps Thumbelina. You just need to look at the right things or the religion looks bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 All the other Christianities have been deceived and led astray . . . . . . but not yours. Your Christianity is the true Christianity. Jesus is so lucky to have you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 "Care to respond?" You said "we" know those Christians who love Jesus by their fruit. I believe there are many Christians like that. Will you please name one? Ironhorse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 mymistake: What convictions would those be? Only persecuting gays, lesbians, transgendered and so on. You are only punished for persecuting minorities. Please post any news stories of anyone in the GLBT community now being fined or facing jail time for their convictions or who have had to resign their job. The few bakers and florists who have been fined have not been fined "for their convictions." It was for denying wedding business service to members of the public who wanted same-sex weddings, when the business owner was running a business that serves the public. Google "gay fired from work" and you get a bunch of articles, some about states where it's legal to fire people for their sexual orientation, some about individuals who have lost their jobs. Recently teachers at Catholic schools have been fired for being gay: example here: http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/04/09/3645062/iowa-students-stage-walkout-catholic-school-rejects-teacher-openly-gay/ http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/gay-teachers-engaged-marry-risk-jobs-catholic-schools-article-1.2181110 ficinco: "Christians demand that their taboos be made obligatory upon everyone. Then people push back. Then Christians say they're being persecuted. But that makes them feel good, because their holy book promotes the idea that the true Christian is persecuted." ficino? When did I say that? My post was about many Americans are now in favor of criminalizing certain speech the state decides is taboo. This is what I said: Christianity is the religion coming under cultural and legal assault now. A recent poll revealed that over 50 percent of Democrats in America are in favor of criminalizing certain speech that the government declares offensive. Whether you are Christian or not, that should scare the living daylights out of you. what poll, and how was the question framed? Some kinds of speech are already criminalized, as in "inciting to riot" or making death threats. The person who put words in someone else's mouth here is you, Ironhorse. In what you quote from me, you'll notice that I spoke of "Christians" plural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 These are the people I was talking about: Christian public paid talking heads who scream that Christians are being persecuted by the evil Obama-gay-Muslim-socialist axis: http://churchandstate.org.uk/2015/06/glenn-beck-warns-that-10000-pastors-are-willing-to-die-opposing-marriage-equality/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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