Living A Lie

[Dragonman73]

Hi Everyone,

 

Want to give a little background on myself, I was always a "believer" but never went to Church except for Easter, Christmas, and so forth. Mostly when visiting my extended family..

 

I was in a failing marriage around the end of 1999 to someone whom I was married to for four years, no kids. We got a divorce and was searching for something and got "saved" through a co-worker.

 

Fast forward a year later I met a girl whom was a Christian and had been heavily involved in Church since she was two years old. We got married. We don't have kids, even to this date. Not wanting them at this point since I have gotten older. Been happily married 15 years now.

 

We have been attending her church since we have been married and have been members there. I was actually baptized and we were married at that church as well. But we were not the "fire and brimstone" praying type of people. The only time I had anything to do with prayer was with my wife's family or in Church. Put it this way, religion wasn't a high priority in our home life like most people.

 

But we were heavily involved in functions and duties at Church. We taught a class, did children’s church, I did sound on a rotation, part of committees, VBS, Awana, and so forth. Mostly because we were always asked.

 

Fast forward to about 2011, I was sitting there listening to the then preacher’s sermon about tithe and offerings. He told us we were COMMANDED to give 10% of our gross income. He said God didn’t care if you had other bills or taxes, that’s his off the top and needed to go to the Church. He went on to say he gave his 10% and so forth.

 

This rubbed me the wrong way. I did the math and 10% of our gross income was a monthly house payment, and if we gave that every week we wouldn’t have any money to pay our bills and so forth. Our quality of life would have suffered. Now keep in mind we had a lower priced home, nothing fancy and both our vehicles were paid for. We weren’t living like kings or queens here. I was trying to work full time and finish college that I decided to do at a later age.

 

What made it a tough pill to swallow for me was that this preacher lived in a really nice home he built on land away from everyone. Was driving a nice car, wife didn’t work and they still had money to send their daughter to private Christian school. He got paid really well at the church and they paid for his doctorate as well. The church was spending crazy money as well and the Pastor just got a new iMac.

 

I started doing some research on the Bible from there, and started finding contradictions and things that didn’t make sense. Up to this point I never actually read the Bible, just followed whatever the preacher was giving his sermon on at the time.

 

From there I started realizing that maybe this whole thing was made up? Maybe there wasn’t a God?  It took me a while to decide that I was an atheist because I was so scared I was going to be struck by lightning or something. But it got easier.

 

I did this for a year, and didn’t really express these feelings to my wife. But I’ve been trying to slim down some of my duties at church and start breaking away from it and we started talking about religion and how factual it was. 

 

I remember the day told her I didn’t believe in God. The look on her face went from anger to hurt, and like clockwork she said well then who are you going to worship then? The Devil?

 

I told her no, I didn’t believe in the devil either. She blew a gasket and you would have thought I revealed to her that I was cheating on her or something. She was freaking out, she sat in her car and was slamming the steering wheel which was unlike her.  Her reaction was strange to me, but it makes sense now because this stuff was indoctrinated in her so deeply. I can see know that was a swift blow to her spirituality. While she’s not a practicing christian in her daily life, church is a big part of her history and past.

 

Since then it’s gotten easier talking about this stuff around her. She knows where I stand and I know where she stands.  I do want to say again that I definitely don’t believe and she hasn’t changed how she acts at home, we still watch the shows we want. She and I can cuss like sailors at times, and prayer and religion is not something that is in our home. But we were like that before I came out to her.

 

She does however feel that I am making fun of her and other people when I try to instill some logic and critical thinking into things that come up at Church and in society that revolved around religious issues.  She doesn’t agree with the Gay bashing agenda, and some of the other issues that Churches push trying to stop laws that allow for marriage and things like that.

 

She believes in human rights no matter what the Bible says about slavery, homosexuality, and human rights. But if I tell her that there is no evidence of a man walking on water, or a strong man killing 1,000 people single handily with a donkey jaw bone, or a man rising from the dead she gets offended.

 

Having said all of this, to date we still teach a kids Sunday school class, and involved in children’s church but that’s where we draw the line. We don’t do Sunday nights, wed nights, or anything outside of Sunday mornings anymore.

 

I had been trying to plead with her for the last year about scaling back some more. I wanted to stop doing the Sunday school class, and possibly the children’s church.  I’m having a hard time teaching this class, because it goes against what I believe and I think it is harming the kids presenting this material as factual evidence. Especially since they trust me. I have been telling this to her all along that it’s making it difficult and uncomfortable for me to go and do this.

 

Plus I would rather being doing something more constructive for myself during that time, we get one shot at life and I work 40 hours a week. Weekends should be how I want to spend them. Not being forced to do something I don't want to do or uncomfortable doing.

 

She agreed, so I am hoping this gets a little easier for me, and honestly I think she would rather not go as well. She just has close ties there and some of her family still attends. I have no problem if she wants to go by herself, but I know that’s difficult sometimes.

 

And it’s been my experience that some Christians will shun their family members if they are an atheist or stop going to church so I am treading lightly and the only person I have come out to is my wife and a few co-workers who are atheist as well.

 

Well that’s all or now…thanks for reading

[TrueFreedom]

Welcome, Dragonman.  I've been there.  I hope that you work out a better solution eventually.

[Llwellyn]

Wish I had a gig where people would believe me when I told them that Yahweh would curse them if they didn't hand to me their cash.  No wonder the churches don't want any of this taxed for other community purposes, like building roads, maintaining a Fire Department, Police Force.  It's the biggest racket in America.

[BlackCat]

Welcome Dragonman73, and thank you for sharing your story.  I've been part of churches where I've known members to be non believers.  The two I'm thinking of, both were married to full on evangelical women, but they themselves are atheists.  I remember still going to church when I knew it was all bull.  I gave my daughter a lift and so I tried to treat it like a loving community even if they believed in a fairy tale.  I couldn't keep doing it though.  You've hit the nail on the head though, regarding teaching the children stuff that you yourself don't believe.  I know they learn lots of good positive things in Sunday school, but there is always the bullsh*t that will most certainly infect them.  Just before I stopped going to church several months back (I knew it wasn't real but kept going for a while for the sake of my daughter and friends) one of the worship leaders gave a little word before the service started.  She proudly told us how her six year old boy had answered a question: 'what is the most important thing?'  He promptly drew a picture of Jesus on the cross.  'This was the most important thing'.  So his mum told us all that nothing else mattered really.  It all boiled down to Jesus dying for us.  I was repulsed that a child who obviously didn't understand what the hell a dead man on a cross has to do with his little life, had drunk in the words he had heard from the adults.  It gave me the creeps. 

 

I wish you and your wife all the best.  Please let us know how things go.   

[florduh]

Funny how only Christians and other cultists are unwilling to allow anyone a differing opinion. 

 

Ooh, they'll be disappointed in me, they'll stop loving me, they'll unfriend me, blah, blah, blah. Why do we let them make the rules? I have just as much right to an opinion as any Christian who would pity, bully, hate or berate me. If someone disagrees with me regarding religion, politics or pizza, then so be it. I don't think I have a right to demand they think as I do; why do they? It's time we demand equality and stop cowering in fear that we might offend some Christian by having an opinion. It's okay to be black, gay or atheist but all minorities have to assert their rights and demand equality because ain't nobody handing it out for free.

[amateur]

As a former Sunday school teacher (I taught 4-year-olds) I have to say I really loved the kids and doing crafts and snack time with them, and I loved how I got to know them through the year, but I would never do anything that would indoctrinate children again.  I spent some decades as agnostic, but have to say that when preparing those Sunday school lessons, they always left me with more questions than answers, but I'd still dutifully follow the lesson and teach the part that we were supposed to teach, and leave out the weird (or evil) stuff around it.  Not that 4-year-olds could have critically understood the bible and its contradictions and really strange stuff; however, that weekly indoctrination of "god is love" and "jesus loves you" and "obey god" makes me realize now how insidious it is.

 

Teaching sunday school and being forced to read the lesson, then reading more around to try to understand the context, reinforced my agnosticism and really led me down the road to atheism.

 

Good luck to you and your wife!  

 

When I was teaching Sunday school, my husband at that time was an atheist, but he'd come to church and even help me out if I needed some specific help, and he never minded helping out at the church with repairs, cleaning, etc.  But we never were overly-involved with the church.  Our kids are now young adults, and both are non-believers, so I guess we did something right!

[kolaida]

I always volunteered for VBS (and Awanas).  By the time I was old enough to teach Sunday School, my family had moved from small Southern Baptist to gigantic non-denominatiol and I don't think they had a Sunday School (but still not 100 sure).

 

Anyway, I hope y'all can work out a better solution, too.  It sounds like you've had a rough go.  And what the heck is that preacher on?  My parents always left churches that they felt were "too needy." Generally, we had preachers that just encouraged people to put what they could in, sometimes they'd have 10% sermons but they still always brought up the woman with two pennies in a positive manner.  Anytime I heard a preacher pushing money too much, I just knew mom and dad's coversation on the way home would be about looking for a new church. 

 

10% of your GROSS income WEEKLY?!? So glad you got out of that, you gotta wonder what kind of grandiose delusions that preacher has.  I'd imagine most Christians would take issue with it.  

 

Very happy you're reclaiming your weekends, definitely sounds like you deserve it.  

[Dragonman73]

Wish I had a gig where people would believe me when I told them that Yahweh would curse them if they didn't hand to me their cash.  No wonder the churches don't want any of this taxed for other community purposes, like building roads, maintaining a Fire Department, Police Force.  It's the biggest racket in America.

 

Yeah thats the thing, I remember his sermon like it was yesterday. He basically said that it doesn't matter what state of dispair your in financially, 10% of that goes to the Church. And if you follow obediently God will bless you. Also said that it's about sacrifices and you can do without that new car, or luxuries. I blanked out after that, and left the service with a weird feeling.

 

But I looked at the offerings amounts on the back page of the bulletin and it was going down every week. I think at that time I was giving like 2% of my income, but I took it as that wasn't good enough for him or his God.

 

It wasn't much longer after that he quit and moved on to a Mega Church, I know making more money....he told our Church he was in view of a call and being led by God that way...yeah right.

 

When I changed jobs is because I personally want more money or a better work situation for myself

[Dragonman73]

Welcome Dragonman73, and thank you for sharing your story.  I've been part of churches where I've known members to be non believers.  The two I'm thinking of, both were married to full on evangelical women, but they themselves are atheists.  I remember still going to church when I knew it was all bull.  I gave my daughter a lift and so I tried to treat it like a loving community even if they believed in a fairy tale.  I couldn't keep doing it though.  You've hit the nail on the head though, regarding teaching the children stuff that you yourself don't believe.  I know they learn lots of good positive things in Sunday school, but there is always the bullsh*t that will most certainly infect them.  Just before I stopped going to church several months back (I knew it wasn't real but kept going for a while for the sake of my daughter and friends) one of the worship leaders gave a little word before the service started.  She proudly told us how her six year old boy had answered a question: 'what is the most important thing?'  He promptly drew a picture of Jesus on the cross.  'This was the most important thing'.  So his mum told us all that nothing else mattered really.  It all boiled down to Jesus dying for us.  I was repulsed that a child who obviously didn't understand what the hell a dead man on a cross has to do with his little life, had drunk in the words he had heard from the adults.  It gave me the creeps. 

 

I wish you and your wife all the best.  Please let us know how things go. 

Thanks,

 

This is why I take issue with teaching children this stuff. The doctrine teaches them several things off the top of my head

 

 - They are worthless, unless they accept someone died for them

 

- Teaches Fear (of angering someone or going to Hell)

 

-  Teaches that someone else is in control of thier lives, not to accept responsibility for thier actions.

 

- Teaches to praise someone else for something they obviously did on thier own

 

- Teaches intolerance of other people unless you are one of them (example: Gay rights or other religions)

 

-  Teaches you aren't a good person unless you are a Christian, everyone else is bad.

 

- Teaches it's ok to shut down your logic and reasoning for the sake of believing everything in the Bible. (virgin birth, rising from the dead, walking on water, great flood ect). Discourages criticall thinking.

 

- Teaches guilt about certain things if it doesn't align with the scriptures and teachings.

 

- Teaches false science and history, we know the bible was written in primative times and most children can't grasp that concept. This was during the time when the mode of transportation was a camel or donkey. So when someone couldn't explain lightning or someone healing on thier own.....God had something to do with it. They didn't know the earth was round then. But children are taught to believe the Bible none the less.

 

- Teaches to believe in imaginary things without evidence. They are taught that there is someone in the sky watching over them and making things happen in thier lifes,

 

- Teaches that prayer works, if they pray hard enough God will make things happen in thier lives. The loophole is that it's his will so it may not be what you want. But God only gives you what you can handle.

 

If you look at the 10 commandments the first five I think are about God and worshipping him and only him. But the funny thing is according to scripture the New Testment and the coming of Jesus wiped away Old Testiment Laws.......including the 10 Commandments and the rules for tihes and offerings....but it's still used a lot

[Dragonman73]

Funny how only Christians and other cultists are unwilling to allow anyone a differing opinion. 

 

Ooh, they'll be disappointed in me, they'll stop loving me, they'll unfriend me, blah, blah, blah. Why do we let them make the rules? I have just as much right to an opinion as any Christian who would pity, bully, hate or berate me. If someone disagrees with me regarding religion, politics or pizza, then so be it. I don't think I have a right to demand they think as I do; why do they? It's time we demand equality and stop cowering in fear that we might offend some Christian by having an opinion. It's okay to be black, gay or atheist but all minorities have to assert their rights and demand equality because ain't nobody handing it out for free.

 

I've learned that Christians are taught to "stand up" for thier beliefs because it please God. They are also told to witness to everyone and bring everyone to the kingdom of God. A good example is the clapping and crying you hear during a Church service baptism or coming forward to to announce they are saved. Ive sat through many of these with myself being one of them.

 

Looking back on it, it's a scary and creepy thing, because you can see how Christianity is designed to control and build the masses first hand. To the congregation they think a good thing is happening because thats one more person thats joining them in Heaven and they saved them from burning torment for eternity.

 

But to the leaders it's another person in thier pocket to control and manipluate and money coming in. I'm talking about the original leaders, using Constantine the Great as an example. Mind control at it's greatest.

 

Think about it, if Christians accepted everyones belief or lifestyle it would go against the design of it's control. You need the masses of it's group to think alike and not have thier own opinions. Which makes itself evident during elections and hot topics like the gay agenda rights or even 50 years or so ago with african american rights.

[Dragonman73]

As a former Sunday school teacher (I taught 4-year-olds) I have to say I really loved the kids and doing crafts and snack time with them, and I loved how I got to know them through the year, but I would never do anything that would indoctrinate children again.  I spent some decades as agnostic, but have to say that when preparing those Sunday school lessons, they always left me with more questions than answers, but I'd still dutifully follow the lesson and teach the part that we were supposed to teach, and leave out the weird (or evil) stuff around it.  Not that 4-year-olds could have critically understood the bible and its contradictions and really strange stuff; however, that weekly indoctrination of "god is love" and "jesus loves you" and "obey god" makes me realize now how insidious it is.

 

Teaching sunday school and being forced to read the lesson, then reading more around to try to understand the context, reinforced my agnosticism and really led me down the road to atheism.

 

Good luck to you and your wife!  

 

When I was teaching Sunday school, my husband at that time was an atheist, but he'd come to church and even help me out if I needed some specific help, and he never minded helping out at the church with repairs, cleaning, etc.  But we never were overly-involved with the church.  Our kids are now young adults, and both are non-believers, so I guess we did something right!

 

Thanks

 

Your situation is exactly like mine except the kids I deal with are 4-6 grade. They are old enough to start thinking critically. It's hard for me to teach a lesson that sounds impossible to be true. An example recently is Lazarus resurrection or tower of Babel. These kids are smarter than we give them credit for and they DO ask questions that I can immediately answer but I refrain. Since my wife wants to be there more than I do I look at her and give her a chance to answer it.....her reply? God works in mysterious ways or her failsafe "ask your parents"

 

We use lessons that are built up by a well-known company and it the stories are hard to believe so I can’t imagine what these kids are thinking when we watch the videos.

Honestly, I think my wife’s issue with quitting the class is that she has grown attached to these kids and feels like she is letting them down by not being there for them.  But I think it will get easier for her once we stop doing it.

[Dragonman73]

I always volunteered for VBS (and Awanas).  By the time I was old enough to teach Sunday School, my family had moved from small Southern Baptist to gigantic non-denominatiol and I don't think they had a Sunday School (but still not 100 sure).

 

Anyway, I hope y'all can work out a better solution, too.  It sounds like you've had a rough go.  And what the heck is that preacher on?  My parents always left churches that they felt were "too needy." Generally, we had preachers that just encouraged people to put what they could in, sometimes they'd have 10% sermons but they still always brought up the woman with two pennies in a positive manner.  Anytime I heard a preacher pushing money too much, I just knew mom and dad's coversation on the way home would be about looking for a new church. 

 

10% of your GROSS income WEEKLY?!? So glad you got out of that, you gotta wonder what kind of grandiose delusions that preacher has.  I'd imagine most Christians would take issue with it.  

 

Very happy you're reclaiming your weekends, definitely sounds like you deserve it.

 

Thanks,

 

We let them know to find new Sunday school teachers, so that’s going to be submitted soon. I'm really looking forward to that. They mentioned that since we aren't doing that class anymore that maybe we could join a couples class during that time instead......not going to happen.

 

Yeah I think his sermon rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. This was a small church with about 237 average weekly members bringing in between $25,000 - 30,000 a month. At the time I think he was wanting another raise on top of the $72,000 a year he already got. The church already gave him a $800 a month stipend since he lived in his own home and not the parsonage and paid his whole families medical insurance in addition to that income. He was doing better than 90% of the church members.

 

That Pastor left not long after that, funny thing is the Church paid for most of his college when he came their as a youth minister in the 1990’s. So he left with a Doctorate in Theology.

 

I haven't gave this church any money since 2012 and if I did it might have been around $25 in a week, but it wasn't a regular offering. They give us those personalized offering envelopes once a year with our names on it and I chunk it in the trash. I don't feel guilty one bit and I'm still doing fine financially, God hasn't taken it away from me yet

[kolaida]

Yes, I can't even imagine my own parents not laughing right out the church's door at that kind of thing and they enjoy going to smaller churches that preach fire and brimstone. $72,000 a year he was getting?! Plus paid tuition and paid med insurance for his family?  Geeze, beginning to realize why some pastors turn out to be sleazy.  And asking for 10% of the congregation's grossly income a week?!? That is just nuts, wonder how many people he really screwed over.  That is one thing I know my parents would completely agree with me on, almost tempted to call them up and be like, "Did you hear about the pastor who...". It would definitely up my mom's paranoia in every sermon where money is mentioned, lol.  My parents are suckers for god but when it's all said and done, they'd come back with a, "But God showed how he really wants us to spend our money.". lol 

 

I'm sorry, just in shock. I've heard ten percent before but every pastor I've heard always said it was 10% of your earnings on your check, most encouraged biweekly offerings or offering that coincided with your pay period so you might be putting anywhere from $40-$70 every other week depending on the pay.  Certainly not weekly (unless you wanted to split it, $20 each week for example)  And it was after everything was taken out (taxes, etc). Most people can barely afford that, most people I know have never seen 50K a year, much less 70K, good grief. He was asking for a few hundred dollars a month from everyone!! (If not more!)

 

Anytime a preacher talks to much about money, I get suspicious (even when I was a Christian, alarm bells would usually go off).  There was only one preacher I ever thought was okay talking about money, but he always outlined the amount given and the budget plans and explained where it was going to the congregation through bulletins and he didn't have anything fancy (lived in a trailer on the church lot). Money really gets me going, lol, if you couldn't tell.  A thief disguised as a preacher (not anything new, but he was so..... blatant about it!!). Glad he left, I'm not one to spare a lot of sympathy on Christians, but dang, gotta wonder how badly that effected some families financially especially if they were already spread thin with kids and debt. At least some good came out of it, brought you here!! 

[Dragonman73]

Yeah I thought at the time that pastor was getting paid VERY well and getting good benefits. He preached about getting to know your neighbors and witnessing to people around you.....yet his home was on land AWAY from the general population and his daughter went to a private Christian school. So how could he relate to us common folks?  He never got his hands dirty and acted like he was too good to be there.

 

But yeah he was pretty adamant that Jesus gets 10% of your income off the top before uncle sam or anyone else gets ahold of it. Before he left they started an deal at the bank where you could have your money taken out via bank draft. Just had to fill out some forms.

 

At one point they had a deacon get up there and give his testimony on how he was struggling but still remained faithful and gave his 10% and ended up being blessed and God "multiplied" his income and still provided. Grasping at straws.

 

I think if I remember correctly on the bulletin at the very back it had the prior weeks offerings and the year to date offerings and what the "needed offerings" needed to be. I think at the time the "needed" offerings was dropping a few thousand less each week and church was getting in the rear. Usually it's over the "needed" offerings in the past.

 

I guess the pastor needed that raise and the church to bring in more money.

 

The irony of all these is it took a year to get a new pastor and he came in making about $76,000 a year with same benefits and more children. And this guy sucks, he's a lot lazier and takes off a lot. Doesn't really lead like he should. I think the deacons had a talk with him about him missing frequently and he needed to stay at the church. The old preacher gave better sermons (kept your attention) and was more organized.  It's not like I believe that crap anyways lol.

 

I've noticed a decline in membership this church over the last three years and it's lost it's "core" of younger members from age 18-45. It's mostly consisted of older people now. That's a good thing in my eyes. And the younger members we do have aren't regular attendees either...you see them two Sundays a month. Again another good thing.

 

But I figured a number of the younger people are hitting the mega churches with more current music a relaxed services.

[Ellinas]

Bit late to this one - not sure why I've missed it.

 

Anyhow, welcome.  At least you seem to have relative freedom given the approach that your wife is taking.  It sounds to me (though I may be wrong) that she is not exactly happy with the religion either, but is not ready to cut the social ties.  Time and gentle persistence may sort that out for you.  What are her family ties to the church?  I think that is the main issue I have where my wife is concerned.

 

Frankly, the pastor sounds a complete idiot - or a cynic determined to secure his own financial base on the backs of his congregation.  In which case he is disturbingly clever.

[ConscientiousObjector]

 

Welcome Dragonman73, and thank you for sharing your story.  I've been part of churches where I've known members to be non believers.  The two I'm thinking of, both were married to full on evangelical women, but they themselves are atheists.  I remember still going to church when I knew it was all bull.  I gave my daughter a lift and so I tried to treat it like a loving community even if they believed in a fairy tale.  I couldn't keep doing it though.  You've hit the nail on the head though, regarding teaching the children stuff that you yourself don't believe.  I know they learn lots of good positive things in Sunday school, but there is always the bullsh*t that will most certainly infect them.  Just before I stopped going to church several months back (I knew it wasn't real but kept going for a while for the sake of my daughter and friends) one of the worship leaders gave a little word before the service started.  She proudly told us how her six year old boy had answered a question: 'what is the most important thing?'  He promptly drew a picture of Jesus on the cross.  'This was the most important thing'.  So his mum told us all that nothing else mattered really.  It all boiled down to Jesus dying for us.  I was repulsed that a child who obviously didn't understand what the hell a dead man on a cross has to do with his little life, had drunk in the words he had heard from the adults.  It gave me the creeps. 

 

I wish you and your wife all the best.  Please let us know how things go. 

 

Thanks,

 

This is why I take issue with teaching children this stuff. The doctrine teaches them several things off the top of my head

 

 - They are worthless, unless they accept someone died for them

 

- Teaches Fear (of angering someone or going to Hell)

 

-  Teaches that someone else is in control of thier lives, not to accept responsibility for thier actions.

 

- Teaches to praise someone else for something they obviously did on thier own

 

- Teaches intolerance of other people unless you are one of them (example: Gay rights or other religions)

 

-  Teaches you aren't a good person unless you are a Christian, everyone else is bad.

 

- Teaches it's ok to shut down your logic and reasoning for the sake of believing everything in the Bible. (virgin birth, rising from the dead, walking on water, great flood ect). Discourages criticall thinking.

 

- Teaches guilt about certain things if it doesn't align with the scriptures and teachings.

 

- Teaches false science and history, we know the bible was written in primative times and most children can't grasp that concept. This was during the time when the mode of transportation was a camel or donkey. So when someone couldn't explain lightning or someone healing on thier own.....God had something to do with it. They didn't know the earth was round then. But children are taught to believe the Bible none the less.

 

- Teaches to believe in imaginary things without evidence. They are taught that there is someone in the sky watching over them and making things happen in thier lifes,

 

- Teaches that prayer works, if they pray hard enough God will make things happen in thier lives. The loophole is that it's his will so it may not be what you want. But God only gives you what you can handle.

 

If you look at the 10 commandments the first five I think are about God and worshipping him and only him. But the funny thing is according to scripture the New Testment and the coming of Jesus wiped away Old Testiment Laws.......including the 10 Commandments and the rules for tihes and offerings....but it's still used a lot

I love this, Dragon! Religion is such an insidious mind-control game! I often wondered what the difference is between "socially acceptable" religions and cults. I finally came to the conclusion that it's quite similar, only difference is that the poisoned kool-aid is all in your mind.

 

I was forced to attend AA meetings while in the military, and soon realized that it was merely a recruitment branch of their cult. At the time, I was an agnostic deist of sorts. I was raised as a Christian, but I found much of the bible ludicrous and horrific. I wanted to believe that there was some degree of validity to Christianity, yet the message had been corrupted by mankind. Attending the AA meetings left me all the more conflicted in regards to faith. The second step was a major stumbling block for me, how could I "turn my life over to God", when I had already spent much of my life trying to do just that? "God" had previously let me down, and furthermore the most pious and good people that I knew had nothing to show for their years of faith except suffering, disease, and tithe-induced poverty. Needless to say, I only got out of the 12 step program by faking it. The power of prayer is bullshit! All I ever prayed for was faith, and the alleviation of suffering in the world around me, but apparently "God" couldn't be bothered to listen.

 

My apologies for the diatribe. The darkest and most depressing times of my life were when I was struggling to have faith. Now that I've let go of religion, I am happier and more confident than ever. I wish you and your wife all the best, hopefully you can help her realize how detrimental religion is to our society and ourselves!

[VacuumFlux]

I'm sorry, just in shock. I've heard ten percent before but every pastor I've heard always said it was 10% of your earnings on your check, most encouraged biweekly offerings or offering that coincided with your pay period so you might be putting anywhere from $40-$70 every other week depending on the pay.  Certainly not weekly (unless you wanted to split it, $20 each week for example)  And it was after everything was taken out (taxes, etc). Most people can barely afford that, most people I know have never seen 50K a year, much less 70K, good grief. He was asking for a few hundred dollars a month from everyone!! (If not more!)

 

 

My parents believe in the 10% gross. When I got my first "real" job instead of just my college job, they immediately reminded me that I owed god his 10% first, that it's sinful to, say, only give 10% of net. Luckily, they had no access to my finances at that point and have no idea that I never did that. If I'd still been a minor with their name on my account I wouldn't have had a choice.

 

I remember something a family friend who studied the bible a lot said about the OT, if you add up all the "first fruits" offerings, the money given to the religious leaders was closer to 30%. My parents took this to mean that it would be nice if you gave another 20% as a "free will offering" or a "gift" on top of the necessary 10% tithe. But in the OT they were a theocracy, so that includes all the taxes too. Which I thought was pretty funny, when my dad once went on a rant about how god only asks for 10% and how dare the federal government tax us any higher than that, like they think they're better than god. Seems like a 30% tax was actually biblical!

 

Edit: I should mention that I don't think my parents are being hypocrites about this particular issue; they probably do tithe that much. I also remembered how we were taught about tithing even as little kids - we were required to tithe 10% of all the money we got as birthday gifts (which didn't bother me at the time, because I was required to put the rest of it into a savings account and never had any money of my own available to spend anyway).

[Dragonman73]

She doesn't bash it like I do, I don't think Church or religion is a high priority but she won't leave it. \

 

Keep in mind we are talking about someone that has been in Church since she was 2, lost her dad when she was in 6th grade , and he mom re-married another Christian man. This Church and religion in general has been a huge part most of her life. She did the true-love waits thing, her family had Bible time before bed every night of the week growing up. Anytime the Church doors were open they were there. She also attended a Christian college for a few years.

 

I feel deep down she knows this stuff isn't real, which explains why she gets defensive when I point out some of the obvious stuff. But in my opinion to say this stuff isn't real and turn her back on the Church it's going to shake the very foundation her whole life was built on and that's scary for her. Plus she wouldn't want to let her parents and friends down since they are active. I also think this is so ingrained in her that even thinking there is no God is going to cause her torment or problems. It took me a while before I could safely say "There isn't a God". Plus she lost her dad at an early age from a car wreck they were all in and she holds hope she will see him again in another existence. Which is silly to me, but a serious thing for her.

 

I can't imagine what she would be going through. But I think  a lot of it is she likes the social aspect of being around people more than anything. This is her home town and she's known most of these people her whole life.

 

But having said that, she is on Facebook a lot but you never see her posting scripture, talking about God is good, sharing Jesus post or acting Biblical in any way. It's been like this since we have been married. I bet she couldn't tell you where her Bible is anymore. But she puts on the needed show at Church, like I do. She's def not a holy roller lol....but she doesn't like it when I start picking on stuff in the Bible either.