slave2six Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 First off, I want to say that the bastard who shot up those people in a Charleston church needs to be handed over to the freaking Bolton clan and flayed. And if they can round up the mofos who think like him and who agree with his agenda and flay them as well, so much the better. My major rant is this: Why do these people keep on worshiping god? If their god is real then how hard would it have been to give Dylann Roof a heart attack or something? If there is a god and he is the one they think that he is, then he just let this shit happen without lifting a finger! And THIS is the god you want to worship and adore? What the hell is wrong with people? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Remarks withdrawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Oh, come on, you know the answers. "God gave people free will." "It's a fallen world and people have chosen to sin." "God can't interfere with people's free will." Blah blah blah. When I believed, I am sad to say that while acknowledging that what happened was a tragedy, I also would have thought that the murdered people would have been taking directly to heaven and somehow their families could take solace in that (never having had a family member murdered, that was very easy for me to go along with), and that the murderer would have to eventually face judgment. I can remember being in church and sitting in small groups with people praying over situations like this, and everybody felt like they were doing something to help the situation. At the very least, I felt like I was being as good a person as I could be, I certainly would never murder people, and I was somehow on the "right" side of things. Well, as an atheist, I still would never murder anybody and I'm still on the right side of things. But in the end, I have to agree that I cannot understand how people my age, that I've known for a long time, can still belong to a church and believe that stuff. I can't understand how people I've known from my early church years back in the 70's are still believing that same drivel, that never changes decade after decade, and have never majorly questioned into disbelief. I can't understand how these types of things can happen, and the people will still go back into that church and believe the same things and pray the same prayers, and still get no results, and still believe. In no way am I blaming the victims, or members of that church or any church. It's perfectly legal and acceptable and fine to go to a building together and worship and study and pray. It's just such a disconnect from their loving, caring, protective god. It's a tragedy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 You forgot "All things work together for good to them that love God" and "This is all part of God's plan. We may never be able to make sense of it, but He loves us and knows what's best for us." It's amazing what atrocities we can rationalize to avoid accepting reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Remarks withdrawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Post Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Remarks withdrawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarflungWanderer Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Look, guys, with all due respect-do we have to turn a massacre into a talking point? I mean, it sorta degrades the dead to use them as a "ha ha, there's no God, gotcha!" It's just my opinion, but I just don't think this is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Look, guys, with all due respect-do we have to turn a massacre into a talking point? I mean, it sorta degrades the dead to use them as a "ha ha, there's no God, gotcha!" It's just my opinion, but I just don't think this is right. Upon reflection, I think your right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Post Deleted Happy Now? There goes freedom of speech in the rants section. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Good point, FW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I think it's a valid question ("Why would god allow something like this to happen?") because it's the same question that I asked when I was a believer, and a question that I heard articulated in church over various tragedies. Having church backgrounds, we all know the church-answers. But as a former believer, I remember still questioning those church-answers but not feeling comfortable to articulate that. I think it's ok to still have the question, and question the answers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted June 18, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2015 I agree that these are valid questions, discussions, and comments. Also, I am confident that we will keep it classy, especially compared to comments we read about us written by many christians. Thanks all, BP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Look, guys, with all due respect-do we have to turn a massacre into a talking point? I mean, it sorta degrades the dead to use them as a "ha ha, there's no God, gotcha!" It's just my opinion, but I just don't think this is right. It's more than that. This is beyond outrageous. If you were sitting in your house and watched someone come in and kill your kids and you did nothing, that would make you a complete monster and everyone would think this of you. What angers me the most is the complete lack of anger and outrage by Christians, particularly members of that church. It is completely inhuman to be understanding or to give your protector a pass. It is an evil that needs to be discussed. It came about at noon, that Elijah mocked them and said, “Call out with a loud voice, for he is a god; either he is occupied or gone aside, or is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and needs to be awakened. Fair is fair. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 What we need is moar prayer..maybe not... God has a wonderful plan for...ummm... God never gives you more than..... Cant find a good meme for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2015 Isn't dying for your faith the whole point? Take up your cross? Turn the other cheek? Wait..., they didn't get to die for their faith, did they? They died for having dark skin. Would not a just God have at least given them an opportunity to be martyrs for the cause? Whatever god they think that they are serving is bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TrueFreedom Posted June 18, 2015 Moderator Share Posted June 18, 2015 Isn't dying for your faith the whole point? Take up your cross? Turn the other cheek? Wait..., they didn't get to die for their faith, did they? They died for having dark skin. Would not a just God have at least given them an opportunity to be martyrs for the cause? Whatever god they think that they are serving is bullshit. ....and, of course, Fox News uses it as a talking point to back their martyr complex and accuse the murderer of being motivated by a hatred of Christians. WTF? http://crooksandliars.com/2015/06/fox-news-blames-war-christians-attack-not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Christians praise the almighty Lord but have the same expectations of him as a non believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Isn't dying for your faith the whole point? Take up your cross? Turn the other cheek? Wait..., they didn't get to die for their faith, did they? They died for having dark skin. Would not a just God have at least given them an opportunity to be martyrs for the cause? Whatever god they think that they are serving is bullshit. ....and, of course, Fox News uses it as a talking point to back their martyr complex and accuse the murderer of being motivated by a hatred of Christians. WTF? http://crooksandliars.com/2015/06/fox-news-blames-war-christians-attack-not No matter what the reason....the media has newwwwwwws! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedouin Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I started a topic on here about this very thing (Black Atheists). For the life of me I don't understand why black people in this country can possibly still embrace this religion. Trust me, there are very, very few black atheists. As tragic as this is from a strictly human point of view, it's doubly tragic because the families and friends of the murdered will continue to believe that gawd has a plan. The cognitive dissonance must be positively excruciating. I know it was for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoOne Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Actually, the idea that their god decided to let them die in his own house wasn't the first thing that really bothered me. It's the impending conversations about race that are going to come out all over the place. It's like Ferguson, Baltimore, and that liar Rachel weren't enough. I really get tired to hearing about it all the time if we're not going to try and fix anything. And of course, the usual gun control and gun right debates will pop up everywhere too. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave2six Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Actually, the idea that their god decided to let them die in his own house wasn't the first thing that really bothered me. It's the impending conversations about race that are going to come out all over the place. It's like Ferguson, Baltimore, and that liar Rachel weren't enough. I really get tired to hearing about it all the time if we're not going to try and fix anything. And of course, the usual gun control and gun right debates will pop up everywhere too. Agreed. The real issue is ignorance that leads to this kind of hatred. But no one is interested in talking about that. Gun control is much sexier, even if it's not the root problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I have seen no evidence which supports a rational conclusion that the victims of these murders were chosen because of the victims' religion. There are some statements reported in the media claiming "Christian Persecution". Those making such statements are either intellectually challenged or intellectually dishonest regarding the distinction among coincidence, correlation and causation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 From what I saw on the news, the people of that church look like decent honest people, and it's a horrible crime that some of them were murdered. I might disagree now with their faith and beliefs, but I wouldn't see it as a "win" if some of them deconverted because of this. People need to believe or not based on reason and logic and evidence, not on emotion. I do find it repulsive that before their bodies even reached room temperature most of the "impartial" news outlets had taken sides, and the President and Hillary Clinton and who knows who else (not picking on Dems, those were just the two I read about) were jumping in and taking advantage of the death of innocent churchgoing American people to push their pet political agendas. I also heard that it was a racial thing because of the jacket the murderer had and that he was crazy because he had a haircut like Adam Lanza. I don't know if I could find links to that if anyone asked, but I sh*t you not. Just my 2 cents 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiyana Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 When I was a Christian, I had a lot of doubts and objections, but the whole "why does evil happen" was never one of them. I wrote a blog post or journal entry about it once, and I wish I could find it and post it here. Basically, hearing stories like this always used to just reinforce my desire to be one of the "good guys". I never really thought about it in terms of God failing to protect. I almost feel like I was a bit more of a deist even then, but didn't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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