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Goodbye Jesus

Faith


mylastelephant

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What if I told you faith was a real thing, would you stay for a moment and hear me out. Or would you detest such a concept.

 

What if I told you faith can be demonstrated, that it's faculty that our brains need to survive the world around us.

 

What if I told you that all faith religion's is in fact an oxymoron.

 

What if I told you that faith is how our minds deal with logical paradox's and religion has been milking us by convincing everybody that faith comes from them.

 

Have you heard the term "Try to make the best of a worst situation." This is pretty much faith in a nutshell.

 

Example.

 

Your girlfriend or boyfriend walk's out on you one night and says that they're never coming back. The first thing that happens after you hear there car drive away, is that a mental paradox is created. (Will they be back or are they gone?) The rational mind can not decide which is true, this is because the rational mind can only accept an absolute. (Right or wrong)

 

So what's the mind going to do if it can't decide from either? Well I think you all know that feeling. From here the brain needs some kind of redundancy back up to deal with the mental dilemma.

 

This is where faith is crucial otherwise the rational mind will tear itself apart. Faith in a nutshell is hope. You hope for the best outcome (Your partner returning home after they calm down) and preparing for the worst possible outcome at the same time (I'll deal with it in the morning if they don't return)

 

The reason faith is important here is because it can live in a paradox and a this kind of paradox feeds on subjectivity. Something the rational mind can't do.

 

When the religious people tell you to put your faith in god their only half right. In fact faith has to go into the thing that's causing the paradox.

 

In this case your partner, this way you can be fairly sedated so you won't have another screaming match if they suddenly return home and you've been mentally torturing yourself for not using your faith.

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You haven't studied chemistry in any sort of detail? The world is much more intricate and complicated than two distinct outcomes. Things can exist in superposition and there are probabilities associated with a myriad of outcomes. Even in your example, depending on multiple variables the probability of reconciliation, non-reconciliation or reconciliation with conditions is important. Human intuition likes to "round up or down" to be sure. For example, the probability after your fight may be low but non zero and in this case based on your assessment of the situation, you predict an outcome of non-reconciliation. This is not really faith because you have integrated several variables and made a prediction based upon the evidence available. Of course, emotions and "human hubris" can strongly push us to make predictions that are not well founded in an honest assessment of the evidence.

 

Therein lies the crux of a faith based world view. It involves an intellectually dishonest assessment of the evidence and conclusions that are not truly evidence based. I would also add that in your scenario, you completely discount the fact that some folks may choose to say that they are unsure of what outcome to expect. People do not always limit their predictions to a null or alternative result.

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You haven't studied chemistry in any sort of detail? The world is much more intricate and complicated than two distinct outcomes. Things can exist in superposition and there are probabilities associated with a myriad of outcomes. Even in your example, depending on multiple variables the probability of reconciliation, non-reconciliation or reconciliation with conditions is important. Human intuition likes to "round up or down" to be sure. For example, the probability after your fight may be low but non zero and in this case based on your assessment of the situation, you predict an outcome of non-reconciliation. This is not really faith because you have integrated several variables and made a prediction based upon the evidence available. Of course, emotions and "human hubris" can strongly push us to make predictions that are not well founded in an honest assessment of the evidence.

 

Therein lies the crux of a faith based world view. It involves an intellectually dishonest assessment of the evidence and conclusions that are not truly evidence based. I would also add that in your scenario, you completely discount the fact that some folks may choose to say that they are unsure of what outcome to expect. People do not always limit their predictions to a null or alternative result.

This is unintelligible.
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Please elaborate? You posted in the science section and science is all about evidence? I assume you want to have a discussion with the scientific method in mind? If I used words or phrases that you do not understand, please feel free to ask for clarification.

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The reason faith is important here is because it can live in a paradox and a this kind of paradox feeds on subjectivity. Something the rational mind can't do.

The rational mind can't feed on subjectivity?

 

Everything is subjective. All we have is subjective experience. We can attempt to be objective to the best of our ability, but that takes practice, a high awareness of self, and emotional maturity.

 

I have "hope" that there just may be some kind of afterlife, but I do not have "faith" that this is absolutely true since there is no evidence of such an afterlife. I simply hope that it may turn out to be a reality (of a new and different kind).

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Faith in a nutshell is hope.

 

Faith is expectation. Hope implies no certainty.

 

Of course there are different kinds of faith. There is blind faith in an invisible deity you were told about; there is no evidence for it and therefore you must just will yourself to believe anyway. There is also faith (expectation) from observing past performance; I have faith my car will start just like it did yesterday. If I just hope my car will start, I really should look into buying a new battery.

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Guest Furball

 

You haven't studied chemistry in any sort of detail? The world is much more intricate and complicated than two distinct outcomes. Things can exist in superposition and there are probabilities associated with a myriad of outcomes. Even in your example, depending on multiple variables the probability of reconciliation, non-reconciliation or reconciliation with conditions is important. Human intuition likes to "round up or down" to be sure. For example, the probability after your fight may be low but non zero and in this case based on your assessment of the situation, you predict an outcome of non-reconciliation. This is not really faith because you have integrated several variables and made a prediction based upon the evidence available. Of course, emotions and "human hubris" can strongly push us to make predictions that are not well founded in an honest assessment of the evidence.

 

Therein lies the crux of a faith based world view. It involves an intellectually dishonest assessment of the evidence and conclusions that are not truly evidence based. I would also add that in your scenario, you completely discount the fact that some folks may choose to say that they are unsure of what outcome to expect. People do not always limit their predictions to a null or alternative result.

This is unintelligible.

 

 

Actually it was the OP that i found unintelligible. If i have scientific evidence for a person/place/thing, then i don't need faith. Faith is required where evidence is missing. Faith is not how our minds deal with paradox. A paradox is a 'seeming' contradiction which can be explained. If it can be explained based on rationality, evidence, and logic, then i don't need to faith. -Cat

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The reason faith is important here is because it can live in a paradox and a this kind of paradox feeds on subjectivity. Something the rational mind can't do.

The rational mind can't feed on subjectivity?

 

Everything is subjective. All we have is subjective experience. We can attempt to be objective to the best of our ability, but that takes practice, a high awareness of self, and emotional maturity.

 

I have "hope" that there just may be some kind of afterlife, but I do not have "faith" that this is absolutely true since there is no evidence of such an afterlife. I simply hope that it may turn out to be a reality (of a new and different kind).

No I mean the paradox itself feeds on the subjective experience which the rational mind can't resolve. As in every moment your partner is gone new mental paradoxes occur, such as. "What happens if they get hurt or not hurt while out." Or "What if they go to a bar and find someone else or not" that's basically a horrible subjective experience the rational mind can't deal with unless it has a absolute answer. So it needs some sort of faculty that can reduce the minds thinking down to being in a positive and negative at the same time.
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When the religious people tell you to put your faith in god their only half right. 

 

 

There were so many things wrong with the OP, but i am going to just use this one as an example.

 

Religious people are not half right, they are wholly wrong. All religions are based on the afterlife, not this current life we are living. The afterlife is unprovable, that is why it requires faith. If religions were based on fact and not fiction, then no one would need faith to believe in them. -Cat

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Please elaborate? You posted in the science section and science is all about evidence? I assume you want to have a discussion with the scientific method in mind? If I used words or phrases that you do not understand, please feel free to ask for clarification.

I pretty much will crap on my theory once a better replacement for logical paradox's can be found. So far I've tested the feeling "hope" on any paradox I've found and it's holding up super.
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No I mean the paradox itself feeds on the subjective experience which the rational mind can't resolve.

Of course the rational mind can resolve it. Your analogy refers to being in a hyper-emotional state - at a point where nothing can be resolved at all (in reference to faith, this is what charismatic/evangelical religions do during a worship service when they work people up into emotional frenzies - so you are correct in that regard..."faith" is beyond rational reasoning at that point since the "experience" is real to the emotions).

 

Once the emotions settle the rational mind can work towards a solution.

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Faith in a nutshell is hope.

 

Faith is expectation. Hope implies no certainty.

 

Of course there are different kinds of faith. There is blind faith in an invisible deity you were told about; there is no evidence for it and therefore you must just will yourself to believe anyway. There is also faith (expectation) from observing past performance; I have faith my car will start just like it did yesterday. If I just hope my car will start, I really should look into buying a new battery.

Sure you can have faith in anything you want, need, desire. But the process is always going to be the same. You start with a mental contradiction then use your faith to resolve it.
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No I mean the paradox itself feeds on the subjective experience which the rational mind can't resolve.

Of course the rational mind can resolve it. Your analogy refers to being in a hyper-emotional state - at a point where nothing can be resolved at all (in reference to faith, this is what charismatic/evangelical religions do during a worship service when they work people up into emotional frenzies - so you are correct in that regard..."faith" is beyond rational reasoning at that point since the "experience" is real to the emotions).

 

Once the emotions settle the rational mind can work towards a solution.

Ok, you get a phone call at night, the police tell you your daughters been in an accident and you better come down. You ask if she's ok and they say look you better just come.

 

In your mind your daughter is dead and alive.

 

Resolve it.

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I'm not smart enough to follow this. Have fun, guys!

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Guest Furball

 

 

No I mean the paradox itself feeds on the subjective experience which the rational mind can't resolve.

Of course the rational mind can resolve it. Your analogy refers to being in a hyper-emotional state - at a point where nothing can be resolved at all (in reference to faith, this is what charismatic/evangelical religions do during a worship service when they work people up into emotional frenzies - so you are correct in that regard..."faith" is beyond rational reasoning at that point since the "experience" is real to the emotions).

 

Once the emotions settle the rational mind can work towards a solution.

Ok, you get a phone call at night, the police tell you your daughters been in an accident and you better come down. You ask if she's ok and they say look you better just come.

 

In your mind your daughter is dead and alive.

 

Resolve it.

 

 

The police would never say to you, just come. I have and have had in the past friends who were police officers. They never just call you and say come down. They actually stop by your place of residence to let you know about a family member. 

 

Resolved

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In your mind your daughter is dead and alive.

 

Resolve it.

Can't be resolved until you have the facts.

 

You can have hope that she's not dead and you can worry that she may be dead. Until you act and get down to the station you won't know one way or the other.

 

No, the rational mind probably is not working at this point. At this point everything is emotion.

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I'm not smart enough to follow this. Have fun, guys!

smart? What exactly is smart, and your concerned about faith. Am I mistaken here, aren't they both subjective concepts, but I can't use mine.
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In your mind your daughter is dead and alive.

 

Resolve it.

Can't be resolved until you have the facts.

 

You can have hope that she's not dead and you can worry that she may be dead. Until you act and get down to the station you won't know one way or the other.

 

No, the rational mind probably is not working at this point. At this point everything is emotion.

Well the only emotion I've ever been able to use in that situation would be hope, there's simply no other emotion that can deal with that kind of contradiction.
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Please relate this to the scientific method? If you do not understand the concept of probability and how we deal with it and related concepts such as uncertainty, you have no business presenting your thesis in a science thread. As of yet, you have not demonstrated that you robustly understand these concepts.

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No I mean the paradox itself feeds on the subjective experience which the rational mind can't resolve.

Of course the rational mind can resolve it. Your analogy refers to being in a hyper-emotional state - at a point where nothing can be resolved at all (in reference to faith, this is what charismatic/evangelical religions do during a worship service when they work people up into emotional frenzies - so you are correct in that regard..."faith" is beyond rational reasoning at that point since the "experience" is real to the emotions).

 

Once the emotions settle the rational mind can work towards a solution.

Ok, you get a phone call at night, the police tell you your daughters been in an accident and you better come down. You ask if she's ok and they say look you better just come.

 

In your mind your daughter is dead and alive.

 

Resolve it.

The police would never say to you, just come. I have and have had in the past friends who were police officers. They never just call you and say come down. They actually stop by your place of residence to let you know about a family member.

 

Resolved

Yep absolutely, but there's some cases where the police have to say nothing, so the horror won't be overwhelming say if you knew ahead of time your going to go see something grizzly.
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Well the only emotion I've ever been able to use in that situation would be hope, there's simply no other emotion that can deal with that kind of contradiction.

 

 

Emotions do not resolve contradictions.

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No I mean the paradox itself feeds on the subjective experience which the rational mind can't resolve.

Of course the rational mind can resolve it. Your analogy refers to being in a hyper-emotional state - at a point where nothing can be resolved at all (in reference to faith, this is what charismatic/evangelical religions do during a worship service when they work people up into emotional frenzies - so you are correct in that regard..."faith" is beyond rational reasoning at that point since the "experience" is real to the emotions).

 

Once the emotions settle the rational mind can work towards a solution.

Ok, you get a phone call at night, the police tell you your daughters been in an accident and you better come down. You ask if she's ok and they say look you better just come.

 

In your mind your daughter is dead and alive.

 

Resolve it.

The police would never say to you, just come. I have and have had in the past friends who were police officers. They never just call you and say come down. They actually stop by your place of residence to let you know about a family member.

 

Resolved

Yep absolutely, but there's some cases where the police have to say nothing, so the horror won't be overwhelming say if you knew ahead of time your going to go see something grizzly.
Actually I hate my statement here, it lacks investigation..to many cop shows I'd say, lol.
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Well the only emotion I've ever been able to use in that situation would be hope, there's simply no other emotion that can deal with that kind of contradiction.

 

Emotions do not resolve contradictions.

No they don't but the emotion hope just sedates you while the mind resolves the contradiction.
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What if I told you faith was a real thing, would you stay for a moment and hear me out. Or would you detest such a concept.

 

What if I told you faith can be demonstrated, that it's faculty that our brains need to survive the world around us.

 

What if I told you that all faith religion's is in fact an oxymoron.

 

What if I told you that faith is how our minds deal with logical paradox's and religion has been milking us by convincing everybody that faith comes from them.

 

Have you heard the term "Try to make the best of a worst situation." This is pretty much faith in a nutshell.

 

Example.

 

Your girlfriend or boyfriend walk's out on you one night and says that they're never coming back. The first thing that happens after you hear there car drive away, is that a mental paradox is created. (Will they be back or are they gone?) The rational mind can not decide which is true, this is because the rational mind can only accept an absolute. (Right or wrong)

 

So what's the mind going to do if it can't decide from either? Well I think you all know that feeling. From here the brain needs some kind of redundancy back up to deal with the mental dilemma.

 

This is where faith is crucial otherwise the rational mind will tear itself apart. Faith in a nutshell is hope. You hope for the best outcome (Your partner returning home after they calm down) and preparing for the worst possible outcome at the same time (I'll deal with it in the morning if they don't return)

 

The reason faith is important here is because it can live in a paradox and a this kind of paradox feeds on subjectivity. Something the rational mind can't do.

 

When the religious people tell you to put your faith in god their only half right. In fact faith has to go into the thing that's causing the paradox.

 

In this case your partner, this way you can be fairly sedated so you won't have another screaming match if they suddenly return home and you've been mentally torturing yourself for not using your faith.

 

 

Faith is as much a "real thing" as Darth Vader is a "real thing".  Now with that said faith was how OBL

 

brainwashed a bunch of people into carrying out suicide attacks.  So faith does have real world effects.

 

You keep using the word "paradox".  I do not think it means what you think it means.

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Please elaborate? You posted in the science section and science is all about evidence? I assume you want to have a discussion with the scientific method in mind? If I used words or phrases that you do not understand, please feel free to ask for clarification.

I pretty much will crap on my theory once a better replacement for logical paradox's can be found. So far I've tested the feeling "hope" on any paradox I've found and it's holding up super.

I have learned not to forecast about what has already happened. No need for hope because it wont change if this person is dead or not.

 

To me: cops call/i go to the station/THEN i deal with what i know. I have learned not to let emotions get the better of me until i know the facts. No hope needed.

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