Going To Hell

[wyson]

I also have had sleep paralysis on a few occasions, where I fell asleep, woke up mentally but couldnt move my body. Again, this is not uncommon. The motor control section of your brain is shut down during sleep so you dont flay around when dreaming. Sometimes it remains locked down while the rest of your brain wakes up. This only happened when I first deconverted and was struggling with my mental health. I would have to lie there paralysed until the motor control section woke up. It was seriously disorientating.

 

Your brain is much more fragile, disease and error prone than you think. Help yourself buddy.

 

Check this out and see if your symptoms match:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

[GraphicsGuy]

If hell is real, that's where I'm going because I'm not going to serve a "God" that would send me there in the first place.

[directionless]

@biscuit, what do you currently believe about Christianity? To commit the unpardonable sin, you need the Holy Spirit to exist. You also need this particular Bible verse about the unpardonable sin to be true. ...

 

It's rational to try to understand why you experienced things, but it isn't rational to cling to explanations even after you have seen that they are logically incoherent, non-historical, or otherwise impossible. I know that some possibilities are so consequential that we tend to consider them even when they are extremely improbable. I can relate to that. Also there are emotions involved.

[sdelsolray]

 

 

Since deconverting and crossing the line of no return, I've now had experiences which have led me to believe that there is a hell which is very real and that's where I'll end up.

 

I think that a lot of the problems I had with being a believer was that I was taught to read the bible literally, as well as being taught that it's inerrant - which its not, because there are definitely contradictions in it. 

 

Has anyone else gone so far that they can't repent, and then later thought that actually there was salvation? 

Learn how to deal with your religious fear.  You were indoctrinated with it.  You remain in its grasp.  Is that what you want?

 

@sdelsolray - have you committed the unforgivable sin?  Since I think I had, I have had experiences which have led me to believe that that's where I'll end up. 

 

Lots of people who deconvert don't commit that particular sin, so I don't think have the same issues. 

 

 

 

 

You are demonstrating my point.  You remain indoctrinated with a particular religion because (i) you believe there is an unforgivable sin, (ii) you believe in an afterlife and (iii) you believe you will go to Hell when you die because you committed that unforgivable sin.  In addition, you seem to have employed irrational pattern recognition and confirmation bias with the "experiences which have led [you] to believe [that you will go to Hell]".  

 

All that is fine, if you wish to remain a follower of that particular religion.  If, on the other hand, you are trying to remove the religious indoctrination from your intellectual, emotional and psychological makeup, I would suggest you continue to work on that.  A good exercise might be to rationally analyze these "experiences", which as I mention above, are likely faulty pattern recognitions coupled with confirmation bias.  Also keep an eye on the fear.  It infects the followers of that particular religion like a plague.

 

As to your question to me, "Have you committed the unforgivable sin", I suppose I have (although I do not consider it a sin) but my memory could be wrong.  Here, let me make sure I have done so:

 

Holy Spirit, fuck off.

 

 

[FreeThinkerNZ]

Hi biscuit, like Wyson said above, there are many possible disorders that could be causing the experiences and symptoms you describe.  Not all of those are psychological ones, they are neurological like epilepsy, parkinsons, MS, tumours etc.  I think you should see a doctor to make sure you don't have a serious neurological condition.  

 

If it's not a neurological disorder like the above, I just want to remind you of something you have probably been told before.  The nature of psychosis is that usually the person does not believe they are experiencing it.  Lots of people are suggesting you should tell a doctor about the voices you have been hearing and the bodily sensations you have been having.  What would be the harm in humouring us by talking to a doctor about it?  The voices are distressing to you, and you don't have to suffer with this.  What if things get worse, wouldn't it be better to see if a doctor can help early on?

[wyson]

@Wyson - without going into it a lot basically I've had symptoms of possession, as well as voices indicating that I'm going to hell, and sensations of entities moving on my body (which yes I realise could possibly be similar to psychosis, however the symptoms of possession which have happened have been overwhelming).

From the Sleep Paralysis wikipedia entry:

"It is a transitional state between wakefulness and sleep, characterized by complete muscle atonia (muscle weakness). It is often accompanied by terrifying hallucinations (such as an intruder in the room) to which one is unable to react due to paralysis, and physical experiences (such as strong current running through the upper body)."

 

"Hypnagogic and hypnopompic visions and hearing a demonic voice when resistance is attempted are symptoms commonly experienced during episodes of sleep paralysis."

 

"Many people who experience sleep paralysis are struck with a deep sense of terror when they sense a menacing presence in the room while paralyzed."

 

"(Symptoms) These include shallow rapid breathing, hypercapnia, and slight blockage of the airway, which is a symptom prevalent in sleep apnea patients. According to this account, the subject attempts to breathe deeply and finds herself unable to do so, creating a sensation of resistance, which the threat-activated vigilance system interprets as an unearthly being sitting on her chest, threatening suffocation."

 

There is a load of literature out there if you google search. Its your mind misfunctioning.

[Jeff]

Edit...

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

@Wyson - without going into it a lot basically I've had symptoms of possession, as well as voices indicating that I'm going to hell, and sensations of entities moving on my body (which yes I realise could possibly be similar to psychosis, however the symptoms of possession which have happened have been overwhelming).

From the Sleep Paralysis wikipedia entry:

"It is a transitional state between wakefulness and sleep, characterized by complete muscle atonia (muscle weakness). It is often accompanied by terrifying hallucinations (such as an intruder in the room) to which one is unable to react due to paralysis, and physical experiences (such as strong current running through the upper body)."

 

"Hypnagogic and hypnopompic visions and hearing a demonic voice when resistance is attempted are symptoms commonly experienced during episodes of sleep paralysis."

 

"Many people who experience sleep paralysis are struck with a deep sense of terror when they sense a menacing presence in the room while paralyzed."

 

"(Symptoms) These include shallow rapid breathing, hypercapnia, and slight blockage of the airway, which is a symptom prevalent in sleep apnea patients. According to this account, the subject attempts to breathe deeply and finds herself unable to do so, creating a sensation of resistance, which the threat-activated vigilance system interprets as an unearthly being sitting on her chest, threatening suffocation."

 

There is a load of literature out there if you google search. Its your mind misfunctioning.

 

 

This is good info about what it can feel like when the brain misfires.  Sleep paralysis is only one way this can happen, there are many others.  Temporal lobe epilepsy can cause symptoms like this.  So, it doesn't matter whether the symptoms occur while asleep, lying down, sitting or standing.  Strange sensations and voices are caused by neurons misfiring, science tells us.  

 

When a person hears voices, those voices take on characters from the person's culture.  That is why in countries where xianity has been the main religion, voices are usually considered demonic.  In parts of Africa that haven't had much xian influence, voices are considered to represent the spirits important in those cultures.  In South East Asia, another set of otherworldly creatures are what people say their voices are.  

[directionless]

Here is a chick tract comic about a man who sells his soul and then gets saved shortly before death while his righteous brother never sees the need to get saved and goes to hell as a result. The punch line from Satan when his righteous brother wonders why he is in hell when it was his brother who signed the contract not him: "You fool!... I don't need a contract. I've got everybody anyway... Except those who accepted Christ as their savior!"

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0078/0078_01.asp

 

So another option is to join a church and deal with the guilt you feel over your past.

- if Christianity is true, then you will be reconciled with God and free of the demons.

- if you are having hallucinations, then removing the guilt and worry will likely lessen them.

 

You would need to be careful which denomination to join, because some of them might make your situation worse. The best thing would be to go to a psychiatrist.

[EyesOpened]

Which is more frightening, the Christian Hell or Heaven? According to the NT, there is no food or drink in Heaven, because there is no hunger or thirst. There is no Free Will because you can't sin or even ask to leave. There is no fatigue so no sleep. No marriage or sex in Heaven. Just an eternity prostrate before The Great White Throne singing hymns of praise to a cruel and vengeful god. If I had to choose, I would rather burn in Hell.

 

Valerie Tarico has a great article describing why Heaven would be worse than Hell.

 

10 Reasons Popular Versions of Christian Heaven Would be Hell

The no free will in heaven always threw me off. Here is why.

 

If heaven doesn't have free will, how and why did Luicie rebel against God? That was one of those questions that never got answered when i was a question. If it was different rules then, that tells me that the state in heaven can change at the whim of God. I am so glad i dont believe any of this hogwash anymore. It is enough to drive someone crazy, and probably has.

[mymistake]

 

Which is more frightening, the Christian Hell or Heaven? According to the NT, there is no food or drink in Heaven, because there is no hunger or thirst. There is no Free Will because you can't sin or even ask to leave. There is no fatigue so no sleep. No marriage or sex in Heaven. Just an eternity prostrate before The Great White Throne singing hymns of praise to a cruel and vengeful god. If I had to choose, I would rather burn in Hell.

 

Valerie Tarico has a great article describing why Heaven would be worse than Hell.

 

10 Reasons Popular Versions of Christian Heaven Would be Hell

The no free will in heaven always threw me off. Here is why.

 

If heaven doesn't have free will, how and why did Luicie rebel against God? That was one of those questions that never got answered when i was a question. If it was different rules then, that tells me that the state in heaven can change at the whim of God. I am so glad i dont believe any of this hogwash anymore. It is enough to drive someone crazy, and probably has.

 

 

 

And if Heaven has no free will then that means "no free will" is the perfect condition and God was being a

 

jerk for creating free will in the first place.  That makes God evil and responsible for all the suffering that has

 

ever or will ever exist including all the torment everyone experiences in Hell.  God should have skipped 

 

creating Earth and gone strait to making perfect beings in the perfect existence of heaven.

[EyesOpened]

 

 

Which is more frightening, the Christian Hell or Heaven? According to the NT, there is no food or drink in Heaven, because there is no hunger or thirst. There is no Free Will because you can't sin or even ask to leave. There is no fatigue so no sleep. No marriage or sex in Heaven. Just an eternity prostrate before The Great White Throne singing hymns of praise to a cruel and vengeful god. If I had to choose, I would rather burn in Hell.

 

Valerie Tarico has a great article describing why Heaven would be worse than Hell.

 10 Reasons Popular Versions of Christian Heaven Would be Hell

 

The no free will in heaven always threw me off. Here is why.

If heaven doesn't have free will, how and why did Luicie rebel against God? That was one of those questions that never got answered when i was a question. If it was different rules then, that tells me that the state in heaven can change at the whim of God. I am so glad i dont believe any of this hogwash anymore. It is enough to drive someone crazy, and probably has.

 

 

And if Heaven has no free will then that means "no free will" is the perfect condition and God was being a

 

jerk for creating free will in the first place.  That makes God evil and responsible for all the suffering that has

 

ever or will ever exist including all the torment everyone experiences in Hell.  God should have skipped 

 

creating Earth and gone strait to making perfect being in the perfect existence of heaven.

I cant up vote this yet MM, but you can be assured as soon as i can, i will. I never understood why God would go through all of this because he was "lonely". Seems to me if he was lonely he would want the company of others asap, but i guess he wanted to have fun with raping, murdering, and all the other atrocities first. So if someone ever asks you the meaning of life, tell them "So God can fuck with us".

[qadeshet]

 

 

 

Which is more frightening, the Christian Hell or Heaven? According to the NT, there is no food or drink in Heaven, because there is no hunger or thirst. There is no Free Will because you can't sin or even ask to leave. There is no fatigue so no sleep. No marriage or sex in Heaven. Just an eternity prostrate before The Great White Throne singing hymns of praise to a cruel and vengeful god. If I had to choose, I would rather burn in Hell.

 

Valerie Tarico has a great article describing why Heaven would be worse than Hell.

 10 Reasons Popular Versions of Christian Heaven Would be Hell

The no free will in heaven always threw me off. Here is why.

If heaven doesn't have free will, how and why did Luicie rebel against God? That was one of those questions that never got answered when i was a question. If it was different rules then, that tells me that the state in heaven can change at the whim of God. I am so glad i dont believe any of this hogwash anymore. It is enough to drive someone crazy, and probably has.

 

 

And if Heaven has no free will then that means "no free will" is the perfect condition and God was being a

 

jerk for creating free will in the first place.  That makes God evil and responsible for all the suffering that has

 

ever or will ever exist including all the torment everyone experiences in Hell.  God should have skipped 

 

creating Earth and gone strait to making perfect being in the perfect existence of heaven.

I cant up vote this yet MM, but you can be assured as soon as i can, i will. I never understood why God would go through all of this because he was "lonely". Seems to me if he was lonely he would want the company of others asap, but i guess he wanted to have fun with raping, murdering, and all the other atrocities first. So if someone ever asks you the meaning of life, tell them "So God can fuck with us".

 

 

There is no Free Will at gunpoint! Whether the threat is implied or direct, it's still extortion. Christianity wields a gun called "hell" and demands our belief and our money. Only the gun is unloaded.

 

And if a god is All Powerful and All Knowing, he is responsible for everything that happens. President Truman had a sign on his desk, "The buck stops here". I recently had this discussion with ny sister-in-law. I said that if god wanted to, he could just save everyone, no problem. She said that god couldn't do that. Simple, then he's not All Powerful.

 

By the way, Lucifer is nowhere mentioned in the Hebrew Tanakh. It was actually Helel who fell from Heaven. Helel and Lucifer are both Venus as the Morning Star. As far as Free Will in Heaven goes, supposedly only the Archangels have Free Will, not Angels or Humans. For a Free Thinker, an eternity in Heaven would be Hell.

[qadeshet]

I always took Paul's words literally. One day we will be in the body of Christ. He will live through us. Imagine being part of God. Free will or no, it will be exhilirating.

 

I'd rather burn in Hell, thanks.

[qadeshet]

 

 

I always took Paul's words literally. One day we will be in the body of Christ. He will live through us. Imagine being part of God. Free will or no, it will be exhilarating.

I'd rather burn in Hell, thanks.

to burn only your finger in scalding water for 5 minutes is agony. You are very brave now, but once the torture starts I'll give you 15 minutes before you pray to Christ and ask forgiveness.

Bear in mind there is no Hell, but if there was your bravado wouldn't hold very long.

 

 

It's still Extortion and I will never submit to a cruel and vengeful god for a dreary eternal existence. I would submit to no tyrant.

[midniterider]

 

As to your question to me, "Have you committed the unforgivable sin", I suppose I have (although I do not consider it a sin) but my memory could be wrong.  Here, let me make sure I have done so:

 

Holy Spirit, fuck off.

 

 

One day I'd had enough guilt and told God I was going to do whatever I wanted to do and he would just have to deal with it. As usual there was no reply from God. No demon possession. No horrible disasters. No signs, no wonders. No visions. Nothing out of the ordinary. That was about 13 years ago.

 

Demon possession and the devil are imaginary. If you're actually experiencing these 'entities' with your 5 senses then you need to see a doctor (like others have said.)

[florduh]

Biscuit, are facts and logic even making a dent?

[midniterider]

 

 

I always took Paul's words literally. One day we will be in the body of Christ. He will live through us. Imagine being part of God. Free will or no, it will be exhilarating.

I'd rather burn in Hell, thanks.

to burn only your finger in scalding water for 5 minutes is agony. You are very brave now, but once the torture starts I'll give you 15 minutes before you pray to Christ and ask forgiveness.

Bear in mind there is no Hell, but if there was your bravado wouldn't hold very long.

 

 

 

I'd just morph my body into the form of fire then fire would not harm me. Since we're talking imaginary things like Jesus and Hell, I can do this

[mymistake]

 I never understood why God would go through all of this because he was "lonely". Seems to me if he was lonely he would want the company of others asap, but i guess he wanted to have fun with raping, murdering, and all the other atrocities first. So if someone ever asks you the meaning of life, tell them "So God can fuck with us".

 

 

That too has it's own unique problem.  God is infinite.  That means the time that God existed before he

 

created anything at all was an infinite amount of time.  So God just sat there doing nothing in the void and

 

God choose to do that forever and ever and ever.  For as long as Christians think they will spend in heaven

 

after they die that is how long God sat around and didn't make anything at all.  Infinite beings don't work in

 

a finite universe.

[mymistake]

I don't assume I can possibly understand a being that brought the cosmos into being. I am too small, my brain is too limited. My planet is minuscule. My grasp is too feeble.

 

 

Not true.  Can you understand that Jiminy Cricket isn't real?  Can you understand that Pinocchio isn't real?  

 

If you can grasp that then you can just as easily grasp the nature of Yahweh or the Trinity.

[GraphicsGuy]

Demon possession and the devil are imaginary. If you're actually experiencing these 'entities' with your 5 senses then you need to see a doctor (like others have said.)

Or write an autobiography of your adventures in demon-land. That shit is all the rage right now!

[FreeThinkerNZ]

I always took Paul's words literally. One day we will be in the body of Christ. He will live through us. Imagine being part of God. Free will or no, it will be exhilirating.

Looks like you might need to call your doctor, ES.

[wyson]

Here's another one:

 

Vestibulur Disorders.

 

Apparently iPads and IPhones animations and parallax effect can cause the room to start spinning, panic attacks, the strength to leave the suffers body and for them to fall and their brains to shut down for 30 seconds to 5 minutes.

 

http://www.alphr.com/apple/1001057/why-apple-s-next-operating-systems-are-already-making-users-sick

 

Does it mean demons live in iOS?

 

Apple haters, please don't answer that.

[FreeThinkerNZ]

 

 

I always took Paul's words literally. One day we will be in the body of Christ. He will live through us. Imagine being part of God. Free will or no, it will be exhilirating.

Looks like you might need to call your doctor, ES.

Not so funny.

 

Not intended to be funny.  Intended to remind you of when you start talking as if biblegod exists.

[Guest sylensikeelyoo]

I agree with everyone here. Biscuit, stop worrying so much that God is gonna toss you in hell just for being human. Deconverting is tough business, especially for those like you and I who were so entrenched in Christian fundamentalism. I still have nightmares sometimes. I actually have a sleep disorder that causes sleepwalking, nightmares, and night terrors. Stress increases these occurrences for me. When I was little, I was taken to see that evangelical drama, "Heaven's Gates and Hell's Flames." I had nightmares for months afterward. It got so bad, that GET THIS: my mom took me to that same church for prayer for my nightmares that put on the production that gave me the nightmares to begin with! Christian theology is so fucked up. Just do some reading about this stuff and you will see how easily Christian theology falls apart. It's how I get through it. I also got some medicine from my doctor that helps me with my sleep disorder. Yeah. Real science, not prayer, is what is helping me with my problems. No matter how much I was prayed for about nightmares and night terrors, God must not have saw fit to help me. That's another thing. Imagine you are a doctor and you see this scrawny little 8 year old girl with pasty white flesh and dark circles under her eyes and she's telling you she has these super scary dreams that interfere with good rest. Would you want to help her? Of course you would. And you are just a human. An imperfect, fallen creature and your "goodness" has its limits. But yet in your compassion you would help that little kid without hesitation if you had the power to. Now God is a being that touts himself as all powerful, all loving, infinitely merciful and infinitely good. Yet that little 8year old comes to him asking for help with these nightmares that he gave her. And he refuses. Biscuit, is that the sort of Being you want to spend eternity worshipping?