1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Sooooo those in the u.s. know supreme Court ruled in a 5 to 4 decision ruled gay Marriage legal in the United states. Great. Many of my gays friends felt trapped belittled and judged and stifle by the lack if love and support. I hate people who Dont show love. My gay friends are both lesbian and male gays been friends for 10years plus I love them as they do me. And I will attend their wedding for support Though I personally disagree with Gay Marriage who am I to judge? And I can't stop them so why bother. But.....here is the thing I don't get What is the difference between two gay friends who cannot have kids who CAN get married. Versus Two gay brothers who cannot have kids who WANT to get married but can't? Both scenario deformed kids is not an issue because obviously reproduction is non possible without some extreme scientific and genetic modification. So deformed kids is a non issue so Dont bring that up. What else is there a reason to deny two gay brothers the same rights as two gay friends? Love happiness equality protection hospital visits tax cuts etc. Two gay brothers should get the same treatment but they don't why is that? Why is two gay brothers frowned upon in disgust for their honest love and commitment and happiness for marriage but two gay friends get to marry and no one bats an eye? Gay marriage......If they get to love one another. Then other groups could fight for the same rights. Slippery slope begins if they can love whoever and its nobody's business and they not hurting anyone right? Then why can't Two sisters. A dad and a son. Mom and daughter. Grandma and granddaughter. Grandson and grandfather get married. Neither of these can have kids so what's the issue. Explain to me how it's non sequitur? And *Dont bring up dogs or animals* toilets electronics trees and street lights. I didn't so don't u Note... I posted this on another group because I'm really torn and this is heavy on my heart not everyone attends the lions den so I wanted a broader opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 What about a goat an elephant and a scary clown? That's some nasty kinky sex right there. Ew. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 No animals as I mention only humans. I will modify post even more clear with asterisks So why. Explain please I'm literally dying for a reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 No animals as I mention only humans. I will modify post even more clear with asterisks So why. Explain please I'm literally dying for a reason The reason is that you have not yet started your own country. Go for it A1. Be the Founding Father of your own country. Legislatures feel the need to pass laws so passing laws is what they do. Don't like the laws they passed? Only the ones who did it know their exact motivation for the exact word choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 No animals as I mention only humans. I will modify post even more clear with asterisks So why. Explain please I'm literally dying for a reason The reason is that you not yet started your own country. Go for it A1. Be the Founding Father of your own country. Legislatures feel the need to pass laws so passing laws is what they do. Don't like the laws they passed? Only the ones who did it know their exact motivation for the exact word choice. Fair enough but still doesn't explain why common people would look down on two gay brothers but not so much two gay friends. They both want love and happiness why should they get socially penalized for wanting the exact same treatment gays wanted from heterosexuals. Love is love right and if they don't hurt anyone then everyone should just go eat their popcorn and watch Jurassic world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Fair enough but still doesn't explain why common people would look down on two gay brothers but not so much two gay friends. You are demanding a simple explanation for a complicated question. All I can do is make a general statement about how human thinking works. Even if I wrote a whole book it wouldn't cover every motive from every person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Fair enough but still doesn't explain why common people would look down on two gay brothers but not so much two gay friends. You are demanding a simple explanation for a complicated question. All I can do is make a general statement about how human thinking works. Even if I wrote a whole book it wouldn't cover every motive from every person. Fair enough Then what about you? Are you for...or against a mom marrying her daughter? Considering the divorce from her husband was final lol How do u personally feel? And would u be bold enough to state your opinion about my specific scenario on global television Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Or two sisters or two brothers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunea Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Gays can "borrow a uterus" that actually produces a kid with their chromosomes. Also many gay people have kids from previous attempts at hetero relationships. It's not about being able to have kids, in my country at least gays fight for marriage and full adoption rights because they couldn't register as parents of a child they couldn't adopt, and as such they could not for example get any information if the kid was in a hospital. So there is an extremely practical reason. I'm not sure if it's the same 100% in USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Then what about you? Are you for...or against a mom marrying her daughter? Considering the divorce from her husband was final lol How do u personally feel? And would u be bold enough to state your opinion about my specific scenario on global television Whenever somebody has an incestuous sexual orientation it makes me wonder if they have a history of being sexually abused. However apart from marriage, consenting adults have the right to carry on relationships in the privacy of their own home. It's none of my business and if they would not share too much information I would be grateful to continue minding my own business. If I were to become the Founding Father of my own country I would set up the marriage laws so that consenting adults can do whatever they want but all marriages automatically terminate after a year unless all parties renew. It would give more significance to the anniversary and it is more realistic to actual human mating practice. Most marriages should only last a few years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travi Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Fair enough but still doesn't explain why common people would look down on two gay brothers but not so much two gay friends.You are demanding a simple explanation for a complicated question. All I can do is make a general statement about how human thinking works. Even if I wrote a whole book it wouldn't cover every motive from every person. Fair enough Then what about you? Are you for...or against a mom marrying her daughter? Considering the divorce from her husband was final lol How do u personally feel? And would u be bold enough to state your opinion about my specific scenario on global television Incest is another topic all together, but like many others said - if they want to do that, it's their prerogative. As far as a law passes allowing it, again - it's not bothering me personally, so like the new laws allowing the LGBT community to legally get marriage licenses, if they allow incest couples to get marriage licenses, it again isn't bothering me. The reason it doesn't bother me, is because it doesn't apply to me - but who am I to deny that to people who it does. Just my .02 Between consenting adults of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 What's wrong with incest? The bible pretty much condones the practice in the early books anyway, right? What's the problem? Same goes for beastiality? According to the bible, Adam was given a choice to take any animal as his mate before woman was created. So according to the bible, we can fuck animals, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I don't think the slippery slope argument works well against same-sex marriage, because heterosexual marriage already is allowed between a man and a woman who cannot or will not have children. So there are some heterosexual marriage that are already on the slope - they are allowed and their goal is not procreation. I am not a lawyer but I'm guessing that the notion of societal harm comes into play. There needs to be a concrete societal harm to justify excluding a class of people from some regulated activity or status. A blind person can't get a driver license, for example. So an adult and a child cannot marry because a child is held to be too young to have informed consent. Even more the case with a human and an animal. Richard Posner, a judge in one of the cases where Appeals Courts struck down anti-same-sex-marriage laws or constitutions at the state level, emphasized that in the case of adult same-sex marriage, there is no societal harm that justifies banning it. I can't answer the question about two brothers, but there are many laws that privilege family relationships. Maybe they could adopt, I don't know. I do know that there is not federal tax on inheritance passed from a spouse to a spouse (that issue is precisely one of the key issues in the same-sex marriage debate) but there is on inheritance passed to collateral beneficiaries like siblings (if the estate is worth enough to be taxed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 29, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2015 Fair enough but still doesn't explain why common people would look down on two gay brothers but not so much two gay friends. They both want love and happiness why should they get socially penalized for wanting the exact same treatment gays wanted from heterosexuals. Love is love right and if they don't hurt anyone then everyone should just go eat their popcorn and watch Jurassic world I agree, but I don't expect general acceptance of romantic love between siblings, hetero or homo, anytime soon. We have a built in taboo regarding this, and I think it stems from the need for a successful species to reproduce with as few genetic errors as possible. It is this "ick factor" that deters us from muddying the waters of our gene pool. Even if reproduction is off the table we still understand at a very basic level that these relationships are "wrong" from an evolutionary survival perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 So in other words, there is no slippery slope. If the slippery slope was real then it would have happened. Instead Christians talk about it and wonder why it never happens. Legalized gay marriage doesn't cause the legalization of sibling marriage or the legalization of farm animal marriage or persecution of Christians or even God to smite the United States with natural disasters. The only thing the legalization of gay marriage does is that it takes away the Christian objection that gay love is immoral. Because now gay people can pledge their love for each other in an officially recognized, socially sanctioned, commited relationship. And that is the real issue Christians have with it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I think the question A1 intended to ask was, if we take reproduction out of the equation, do we consider incest to be wrong? Personally, I don't believe in objective morals, so I would say that incest is not objectively wrong. But it certainly is the case that there is a societal taboo against it. This probably has its roots in evolution, as florduh suggests. Can we get to a point as a society where incest is accepted, so long as children are not involved? Possibly. Should we? I don't know that it really matters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Societies in the past had incest and they didn't just spit out deformed kids. That's all myth. Most of the time it was used to keep great power and wealth in the hands of a very few families. If they were nothing but mutants this wouldn't have become a useful tool. Anyhow, if you think that gay brothers are lining up to get married then I guess that's something we should address. Do you have any examples? I can think of straight relatives getting married and/or breeding (ie. brothers/sisters, half-brothers/sisters, cousins of all types, etc.) but gay examples elude me. While not real we even have an ancient story, Oedipus, that describes one such situation and is a psychological condition today. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Sooooo those in the u.s. know supreme Court ruled in a 5 to 4 decision ruled gay Marriage legal in the United states. Great. Many of my gays friends felt trapped belittled and judged and stifle by the lack if love and support. I hate people who Dont show love. My gay friends are both lesbian and male gays been friends for 10years plus I love them as they do me. And I will attend their wedding for support Though I personally disagree with Gay Marriage who am I to judge? And I can't stop them so why bother. But.....here is the thing I don't get What is the difference between two gay friends who cannot have kids who CAN get married. Versus Two gay brothers who cannot have kids who WANT to get married but can't? Both scenario deformed kids is not an issue because obviously reproduction is non possible without some extreme scientific and genetic modification. So deformed kids is a non issue so Dont bring that up. What else is there a reason to deny two gay brothers the same rights as two gay friends? Love happiness equality protection hospital visits tax cuts etc. Two gay brothers should get the same treatment but they don't why is that? Why is two gay brothers frowned upon in disgust for their honest love and commitment and happiness for marriage but two gay friends get to marry and no one bats an eye? Gay marriage......If they get to love one another. Then other groups could fight for the same rights. Slippery slope begins if they can love whoever and its nobody's business and they not hurting anyone right? Then why can't Two sisters. A dad and a son. Mom and daughter. Grandma and granddaughter. Grandson and grandfather get married. Neither of these can have kids so what's the issue. Explain to me how it's non sequitur? And *Dont bring up dogs or animals* toilets electronics trees and street lights. I didn't so don't u Note... I posted this on another group because I'm really torn and this is heavy on my heart not everyone attends the lions den so I wanted a broader opinion In Arkansas, incest is more accepted. Especially if it's 'over the clothes' . (Fuck! Saying "over the clothes" get's me hot! lol j/k) If Grandma and grandson want to get married or Grandpa and grandson want to get married, I dont really care. In New Jersey incest is 'technically' legal. Or was. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/22/adult-incest-ban-new-jersey/22152025/ Because I dont agree with some of bibleGod's morality I have to ask myself, "Does incestuous marriage cause harm to society?" Offspring of incest may be pollution to the gene pool but I'd say there are many other people polluting the gene pool already and it isn't the result of incest. And if no offspring are involved, such as in the case of two brothers getting married, I dont really give a shit. Get married to your sibling. Marry your Dad. I dont care. I haven't heard a lot of people clamoring to make incestuous marriage legal. Is it a real political issue? Do we need to create a logo? Or is this just a hypothetical issue created for the sake of denouncing same sex marriage which IS a big political issue? Oh and if I can't bring up animals then you can't bring up God, Jesus, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 So why. Explain please I'm literally dying for a reason Excessive Drama Alert. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 A1 - you should really stop listening to Hannity or Dobson or whichever fearmongers you're listening to - they only stir you up to get your money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarflungWanderer Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I don't have too much to say on this subject, but... For the love of Talos, 1A, please at least *spell check* your things. I have such a hard time reading what you're saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraphicsGuy Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Note... I posted this on another group because I'm really torn and this is heavy on my heart not everyone attends the lions den so I wanted a broader opinion You're torn on this and heavy in your heart? Really? Why? Why does it matter to you? If people want to have incestuous relationships, why should that matter to you? Our cave-dwelling ancestors probably banged all their family members constantly - especially before they understood the link between sex and procreation. Why does it matter to you? Does it affect you? Remove all "morality" from the equation and we are still left with one question. Why does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 So why. Explain please I'm literally dying for a reason Excessive Drama Alert. Literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Sorry on mobile can't respond to every individually. But did read everything But many great points were made I haven't considered. Sibling marriage is a societal taboo and unnatural to evolution but objectivly in terms of morality it can go either way since such a marriage does strictly or directly cause harm when reproduction removed. Another point wayyy back in Egyptian days kings or queens interbreeded and married to maintain power and status it was accepted technically already at one point. Perhaps a 20person polygamy type relationship would be more acceptable than two brothers and two sisters. If a man wants to have 19wives and they love each other and want equal rights and protection and visitation rights they should be able to. If gays can get married then any group of people should be able to as well. If someone wants to have 800 wives like in bible daysbthis should be legal too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1AcceptingAThiest1 Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 But if being gay is an evolutionary step up or natural why can't they biologically have kids without extreme genetic modification or some strange scientific manipulation. Why can't they just put it in the hole and a baby come out? How is this natural if they cannot naturally have kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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