Castiel233 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 One assumes that there were no gay angels in Heaven, so no gays in the universe before Yahweh decided to create earth based creatures. As He had no experience of gays, what is it about them ,that He hates so much. His earthy spokesmen claim that gay relationships are wrong as they do not pro create, and one of the main reasons for relationships is to create new victims for The Lord.....yet plenty of women are infertile, some people marry so late, they are too old for children.....does the Lord, sitting on His throne in Heaven, with His Son and Holy Ghost beside Him, also frown on such relationships......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 2, 2015 Super Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2015 People hate all sorts of things and are very judgmental. Therefore, they invent gods to take the heat for them. After all, if God Himself says so..... The downside to homosexuality is that it doesn't help to propagate the species and therefore not a successful evolutionary development. I don't think it's anywhere close to being a problem, though. I also declined to have children so I'm not doing my part either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 People hate all sorts of things and are very judgmental. Therefore, they invent gods to take the heat for them. After all, if God Himself says so..... God hates gays So His followers (some of them) hate gays God hates non virgin brides and humans being wealthy So His followers, er, look the other way 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunea Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Interestingly though there are gay animals who, with their gay partner, take in baby animals abandoned by their biological mothers and are known to nurture them very well. So they do help out with taking care of the offspring and thus are doing a part of making sure the species thrives. Some gay penguins in a zoo even stole eggs from other penguins. When they were given an abandoned egg by the staff, they were a very good, caring couple of fathers to the egg and later, the baby penguin. Of course animal instincts are totally low and super immoral... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 God has an obsession with penises. What they look like, where they go, it's sad really. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 People hate all sorts of things and are very judgmental. Therefore, they invent gods to take the heat for them. After all, if God Himself says so..... God hates gays So His followers (some of them) hate gays God hates non virgin brides and humans being wealthy So His followers, er, look the other way On the upside, God loves virgin girls promised to someone else. I know, because he got one pregnant once. I'd like to see God and Joseph on the Maury show, with young Mary sitting in the middle. Oh, and God hates gays because they aren't like Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 People hate all sorts of things and are very judgmental. Therefore, they invent gods to take the heat for them. After all, if God Himself says so..... God hates gays So His followers (some of them) hate gays God hates non virgin brides and humans being wealthy So His followers, er, look the other way On the upside, God loves virgin girls promised to someone else. I know, because he got one pregnant once. I'd like to see God and Joseph on the Maury show, with young Mary sitting in the middle. And Jesus as the surprise guest after everybody's tempers flare. "But Dad, you are never there for me!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacuumFlux Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I was reading something earlier today that argued it's not about "marriage" so much as preserving "traditional" gender roles. The same people who are against gay marriage tend to be complimentarians instead of egalitarians (means they think people of each sex/gender (which they don't believe are separate things) have certain inherent traits that compliment each other and that you have to have a mixed gender pairing for balance, and that each gender has specific roles to play in that relationship). This makes a lot of sense to me. I was in once big argument about gays, and one of the anti-gay people went on a rant about how "You can't even tell these days whether that strange walking down the street is a man or a woman!" I didn't respond to that comment because to me, it was completely non-sequitur. But this person thought that gay marriage and gender ambiguity were aspects of the same problem with society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 People hate all sorts of things and are very judgmental. Therefore, they invent gods to take the heat for them. After all, if God Himself says so..... God hates gays So His followers (some of them) hate gays God hates non virgin brides and humans being wealthy So His followers, er, look the other way On the upside, God loves virgin girls promised to someone else. I know, because he got one pregnant once. I'd like to see God and Joseph on the Maury show, with young Mary sitting in the middle. And Jesus as the surprise guest after everybody's tempers flare. "But Dad, you are never there for me!" Yet we get no money from Saturday Night Live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I was reading something earlier today that argued it's not about "marriage" so much as preserving "traditional" gender roles. The same people who are against gay marriage tend to be complimentarians instead of egalitarians (means they think people of each sex/gender (which they don't believe are separate things) have certain inherent traits that compliment each other and that you have to have a mixed gender pairing for balance, and that each gender has specific roles to play in that relationship). This makes a lot of sense to me. I was in once big argument about gays, and one of the anti-gay people went on a rant about how "You can't even tell these days whether that strange walking down the street is a man or a woman!" I didn't respond to that comment because to me, it was completely non-sequitur. But this person thought that gay marriage and gender ambiguity were aspects of the same problem with society. I once had a colleague from work throw the complementarian argument at me and tell me I was wrong as a gay man to pursue the behaviors "in which you indulge yourself." This was when I was in a years'-long monogamous relationship complete with jointly owned property and a cat. It really burned me up, and I no longer considered that guy - who also lived in my building - a friend, though we continued to remain cordial. He didn't come at it from the "God made Adam and Eve" angle but from sort of a psychological angle, that a romantic partner of the opposite sex fulfills and challenges you in a special way because, well, "vive la difference," but a same-sex partner is like a version of yourself. So gay/lesbian love is immature and stunted. I guess the psychological argument is an application of the binary principle deduced from "male and female created He them" in Genesis 1. I don't think either slant of the complementarity argument - the biblical emphasis to include procreation or the (faux?) psychological one on challenging oneself with difference in romance - is a legitimate basis for laws about marriage. Anyway, the complementarity argument fails because it requires too many unsupported assumptions to apply to particular cases. Most heterosexuals marry people like them in important ways. Many gay/lesbian relationships are more loving and stable than many opposite-sex ones. And on and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christar Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 One assumes that there were no gay angels in Heaven, so no gays in the universe before Yahweh decided to create earth based creatures. As He had no experience of gays, what is it about them ,that He hates so much. His earthy spokesmen claim that gay relationships are wrong as they do not pro create, and one of the main reasons for relationships is to create new victims for The Lord.....yet plenty of women are infertile, some people marry so late, they are too old for children.....does the Lord, sitting on His throne in Heaven, with His Son and Holy Ghost beside Him, also frown on such relationships......... Just because i'm no longer a christian and not kissing Gods almighty arse, that doesnt automatically mean I accept homosexuality is normal behavoiur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sylensikeelyoo Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 One assumes that there were no gay angels in Heaven, so no gays in the universe before Yahweh decided to create earth based creatures. As He had no experience of gays, what is it about them ,that He hates so much. His earthy spokesmen claim that gay relationships are wrong as they do not pro create, and one of the main reasons for relationships is to create new victims for The Lord.....yet plenty of women are infertile, some people marry so late, they are too old for children.....does the Lord, sitting on His throne in Heaven, with His Son and Holy Ghost beside Him, also frown on such relationships......... Just because i'm no longer a christian and not kissing Gods almighty arse, that doesnt automatically mean I accept homosexuality is normal behavoiur. That may be true, HBE, but an earmark of maturity is to tolerate others and treat them with kindness no matter what...Even if they do things that you perceive to be "icky". And homosexuality is " normal" BTW. It may not seem to be an evolutionary benefit, but it could have evolved as a side effect from a beneficial genetic trait. For instance, if a particular mammal has a natural immunity to a certain type of cancer, but also has a genome with a tendency toward homosexuality, that mammal will likely pass on that trait anyway because the immunity to cancer is highly beneficial to the species. At least, that's the best explanation the experts have come up with. We have seen examples of similar things in laboratories with much simpler organisms, and it makes sense. But I digress. Just because you don't like gay sex doesn't mean you can't live in peace with those who do. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel233 Posted July 3, 2015 Author Share Posted July 3, 2015 My main point it this (assuming Yahweh was real)Why does He create gays and then hate them Where did He get His hatred of gays from , bearing in mind everything stems from Him.... This I don't not understand. He can have any kind of universe He wants, yet seems to make one that pisses Him off, on purpose. To refer back to Genesis, the whole game was rigged, absolutely. If He never wanted Adam and Eve to "sin", then why create the circumstances into which they would "sin"...... He could have given them free will and no serpent, no tree of knowledge, and all would have been well. Adam and Eve would still be alive now, tending to the Garden of Eden...... If the Bible accounts be true, Yahweh made the world, and it has made Him angry...... Well He should have made it to His liking then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christar Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 One assumes that there were no gay angels in Heaven, so no gays in the universe before Yahweh decided to create earth based creatures. As He had no experience of gays, what is it about them ,that He hates so much. His earthy spokesmen claim that gay relationships are wrong as they do not pro create, and one of the main reasons for relationships is to create new victims for The Lord.....yet plenty of women are infertile, some people marry so late, they are too old for children.....does the Lord, sitting on His throne in Heaven, with His Son and Holy Ghost beside Him, also frown on such relationships......... Just because i'm no longer a christian and not kissing Gods almighty arse, that doesnt automatically mean I accept homosexuality is normal behavoiur. That may be true, HBE, but an earmark of maturity is to tolerate others and treat them with kindness no matter what...Even if they do things that you perceive to be "icky". And homosexuality is " normal" BTW. It may not seem to be an evolutionary benefit, but it could have evolved as a side effect from a beneficial genetic trait. For instance, if a particular mammal has a natural immunity to a certain type of cancer, but also has a genome with a tendency toward homosexuality, that mammal will likely pass on that trait anyway because the immunity to cancer is highly beneficial to the species. At least, that's the best explanation the experts have come up with. We have seen examples of similar things in laboratories with much simpler organisms, and it makes sense. But I digress. Just because you don't like gay sex doesn't mean you can't live in peace with those who do. Just saying. Actually i'm bisexual, but I realize my attraction to the male organ might be some genetic anomaly. But nature did make me that way, so I don't care if i'm faulty so long as I don't go around proselytizing my same sex attraction views on other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sylensikeelyoo Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 My main point it this (assuming Yahweh was real) Why does He create gays and then hate them Where did He get His hatred of gays from , bearing in mind everything stems from Him.... Assuming that Yahweh is real and the Judeo Christian premise is correct that He hates the gays, then there is only one conclusion to draw: Yahweh is a psychotic prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sylensikeelyoo Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 One assumes that there were no gay angels in Heaven, so no gays in the universe before Yahweh decided to create earth based creatures. As He had no experience of gays, what is it about them ,that He hates so much. His earthy spokesmen claim that gay relationships are wrong as they do not pro create, and one of the main reasons for relationships is to create new victims for The Lord.....yet plenty of women are infertile, some people marry so late, they are too old for children.....does the Lord, sitting on His throne in Heaven, with His Son and Holy Ghost beside Him, also frown on such relationships......... Just because i'm no longer a christian and not kissing Gods almighty arse, that doesnt automatically mean I accept homosexuality is normal behavoiur. That may be true, HBE, but an earmark of maturity is to tolerate others and treat them with kindness no matter what...Even if they do things that you perceive to be "icky". And homosexuality is " normal" BTW. It may not seem to be an evolutionary benefit, but it could have evolved as a side effect from a beneficial genetic trait. For instance, if a particular mammal has a natural immunity to a certain type of cancer, but also has a genome with a tendency toward homosexuality, that mammal will likely pass on that trait anyway because the immunity to cancer is highly beneficial to the species. At least, that's the best explanation the experts have come up with. We have seen examples of similar things in laboratories with much simpler organisms, and it makes sense. But I digress. Just because you don't like gay sex doesn't mean you can't live in peace with those who do. Just saying. Actually i'm bisexual, but I realize my attraction to the male organ might be some genetic anomaly. But nature did make me that way, so I don't care if i'm faulty so long as I don't go around proselytizing my same sex attraction views on other people. You aren't faulty though. And standing up for yourself and letting bigoted loudmouths know that you aren't faulty, but normal is not proselytizing-- It's normal human behavior. Just like your attraction to both male and female partners is normal human behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christar Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 One assumes that there were no gay angels in Heaven, so no gays in the universe before Yahweh decided to create earth based creatures. As He had no experience of gays, what is it about them ,that He hates so much. His earthy spokesmen claim that gay relationships are wrong as they do not pro create, and one of the main reasons for relationships is to create new victims for The Lord.....yet plenty of women are infertile, some people marry so late, they are too old for children.....does the Lord, sitting on His throne in Heaven, with His Son and Holy Ghost beside Him, also frown on such relationships......... Just because i'm no longer a christian and not kissing Gods almighty arse, that doesnt automatically mean I accept homosexuality is normal behavoiur. That may be true, HBE, but an earmark of maturity is to tolerate others and treat them with kindness no matter what...Even if they do things that you perceive to be "icky". And homosexuality is " normal" BTW. It may not seem to be an evolutionary benefit, but it could have evolved as a side effect from a beneficial genetic trait. For instance, if a particular mammal has a natural immunity to a certain type of cancer, but also has a genome with a tendency toward homosexuality, that mammal will likely pass on that trait anyway because the immunity to cancer is highly beneficial to the species. At least, that's the best explanation the experts have come up with. We have seen examples of similar things in laboratories with much simpler organisms, and it makes sense. But I digress. Just because you don't like gay sex doesn't mean you can't live in peace with those who do. Just saying. Actually i'm bisexual, but I realize my attraction to the male organ might be some genetic anomaly. But nature did make me that way, so I don't care if i'm faulty so long as I don't go around proselytizing my same sex attraction views on other people. You aren't faulty though. And standing up for yourself and letting bigoted loudmouths know that you aren't faulty, but normal is not proselytizing-- It's normal human behavior. Just like your attraction to both male and female partners is normal human behavior. Faulty is what makes me special, don't take my faulty away I need it to be me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Just thought about the complementarity argument: Plato already in the Symposium put a more realistic spin on this very idea that the lover fulfills what is missing in you. Plato puts into the mouth of the character, Aristophanes, a myth in which humans were split into two from having been creatures with four arms and four legs. All the "half" humans then yearned to find their "other half," be reunited, and be whole. Some "halves" were both male, some were both female, some were one and one. This is part of Aristophanes' explanation of love, that it's a yearning to find and be completed by our "other half." 2400 years ago already more sophisticated about the kinds of complementarity there can be. Why should we assume that the important complementarity is only male | female, and not other kinds too, depending on who the two people are? As a college freshman I wept over this when I first read it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Jealousy, pure and simple. God hates gay people because God is jealous of them. After all, Gay people are real and God . . . . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 YHWH hates homosexuality for the same reason he hates shellfish: it's unnatural. YHWH only likes "natural" things. Fish are natural things, so anything in the ocean beside fish are unnatural and therefore are deformities and abominations. So the same "logic" applies to sexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christar Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 God doesn't hate homosexuals, the men who invented Jehovah did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 I've been reading Plutarch's "Isis and Osiris" from around the first century CE. It details what the priests of that (and other) religions eat and don't eat, and more importantly, why they don't eat certain things. The Bible never gets into the "why." It just says YHWH commands it with no further explanation. - the priests do not eat fish because they say the sea is made of purulent matter and is not part of the world (meaning land) - the priests originally did not drink wine, because they believed the grape tree to grow from the blood of fallen angels who had battled against the gods - they do not eat onions, because it is the only plant that flourishes in the waning of the moon - they hold the pig to be unclean, because the pig is most inclined to mate during the waning of the moon So the Bible's commandments are not that unusual compared to other religions. Every religion had irrational rules of conduct based on superstitious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateur Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 God doesn't hate homosexuals, the men who invented Jehovah did. That's what I thought, back when I was a xian leaning towards agnosticism. Back when the OT was written, it was way more crucial to have children because there was no social security, no medicare, no government to help out the elder, no pensions, and there wasn't overpopulation. Social Security WAS your children at that time. So I thought the idea of being against homosexuality, at that time in history, made sense in a culture where children were necessary to continue the family business, and to help as family members became old and/or disabled. And the lines about "be fruitful and multiply" also made more sense thousands of years ago because there was no fear of overpopulation at that time, besides large families being necessary for a family's and tribe's survival. But that was written for a time long, long past. We don't need large families any more, and if someone is gay or wants to remain childless it simply doesn't matter in or society. Those people are not going to have trouble in their old age, or if they become disabled, for the past . . . oh, lots and lots of decades. People wrote the bible and some things in it made perfect sense to those people who wrote it long, long ago. Well, except for the talking donkey thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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