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Goodbye Jesus

The Nice Guy Award.


christar

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1. God created the universe.

 

2. He created beings with free will, desires, and other attributes,

 

 

 

1. If god created the universe, then according to the bible the universe is fixed. Yet cosmology proves this false because of an ever expanding universe.

 

2. Wrong, he did not create free will. Romans 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works (free will), but of him that calleth;)

 

 

 

proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made all things for himself: yes, even the wicked for the day of evil.

 

No free will.

 

Dude if your going to come in here and talk shit to me, at least know your bible and what it says. Everything you said in your post is not biblical.

 

Educate yourself biblically by reading the bible from cover to cover. Use a john gill or Mathew henry commentary to help you. Then study at least introduction books on cosmology, biology and a basic course on science as well.

 

 

 

11206973_901001709960449_375818916957816

 

Christianity is riddled with contradtictions, you never run out of finding new ones.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yeah, another drive by Christian.

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^^^ I was thinking the same thing

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Wow! Is this thread just a perfect example of how anger and hatred towards something just feeds upon itself?

 

Cat, as you stated: "p.s. none of them exist anyways so....", so why all the energy and hatred directed at someone that doesn't exist? That would be like frequently ranting about Bugs Bunny or Micky Mouse. Quite pointless and a waste of time.

It seems that most every thread eventually devolves down the same rabbit hole. Everyone jumping like lemmings over the cliff, trying to see who can claim the best twisted truth and the last word in trashing God.

 

So much mental and emotional energy spent. So much time wasted formulating, in some cases, articulate arguments and replies. And all this simply to debunk a supposedly fictional and non-existant character? I don't think any of you are so foolish as to waste so much of your limited precious time remaining (for those who don't believe in any afterlife) arguing against a fictional character. Move on already. Go live your life the best you can. Based on your postings in this forum, I can assume it's working out wonderfully well for you. Or is it...?

 

But since I'm pretty sure that all of you will remain here to continue trashing God and His followers, I think that this suggests highly that you do in fact believe in God, and you know that Jesus died for all our sins. Ranting and raving, denying, twisting scripture, throwing temper tantrums, and name calling works brilliantly to mask the truth, but it cannot change the truth.

 

 

Now, I know your ready to battle, so let's get on with it. HBEtechnician posed the following question:

"Think of all the shit the devil has done to man, now think of all the shit bible God has done to man.

Christians who do you think wins the nice guy award."

 

Unfortunately, this question in itself is quite absurd, and I'm not sure what it exposes about the experience or knowledge of the O.P. regarding competent or caring leadership.

Whether in business, politics, or anywhere else, a strong, competent, successful leader does not worry about winning some "nice guy" award. He or she cares for the organization and people that they are responsible for. The best leaders will make decisions based on what will be good in the end for everyone. Often the people will grumble and complain because they lack facts or accurate information regarding the big picture.

 

God has already spelled out the "big picture" for all of us. It is in the Bible, particularely in the New Testament.

It's not that hard to wrap your mind around. Here it is in a nutshell:

 

God created the universe. He created beings with free will, desires, and other attributes, including Lucifer, who's desire eventually turned to envy. That envy grew to mistrust and hatred of God. This eventually led to Lucifer battling God, and being defeated. Lucifer was then cast down to the earth, where he is allowed to roam and rule for awhile.

(If God were so vengeful and hateful, don't you think that He would have just "poofed" Lucifer away. Eliminated Lucifer's soul and existance? How about Lucifer's army, 1/3 of the angels? Why not simply eliminate them? Eliminate the threat? Start over with fresh angels?)

 

So now God creates humans, with souls, desires, and the ability to both receive and give love. (Most people think of humans as "bodies with souls". The soul as secondary, but this is incorrect. We are actually "souls inhabiting bodies". The soul, and heart, is primary to God.)

 

Right from the start God warns us about Lucifer, who is now known as Satan (or the devil). That Satan has become evil, and roams the earth. We are warned of Satan's lies, deceipt, and trickery. It's easy to understand a growing threat when you can see it coming at you, but the limitations of our physical eyesite and other senses don't even allow us to see him, to see spirit beings or angels, thus the threat was not understood.

We are also warned that we will have a difficult time here on earth. We will endure pain, hardship, disease, hatred, and many other troubles. In other words "this place is going to suck!". But we need to persevere. We are only here for a very brief time out of our entire infinite lives.

(Our time on this sinful earth out of the length of our infinite lives, can be equated to the time it takes for a single quick refueling stop during a year-long vacation.)

 

So, Adam and Eve were fooled by Satan into mistrusting God's intentions for them, and made a bad decision based on misrepresented information. Or to put it simply, they were conned by a thief, and unkwowingly let sin, and the effects of it, into this world.

I can imagine God might have been thinking "Crap! The kids have screwed up the whole plan. Now how do I fix this?"

 

I personally don't think that God expected sin to have such devestating effects on us, His children. I see many posts in this forum either referring to, or quoting OT scripture to show Gods anger.

Why wouldn't He get angry? His children are well warned about all types of evil and temptations, yet they continually gravitate towards it. Then when things get really bad, they come running back to their father (God) for awhile, who forgives them and takes them in. Feeds and clothes them again. The next thing you know, they get complacent and bored, and go wandering away towards trouble, and sin, again.

 

A side-note:

My daughters have been well-warned against drugs and the high rate of addiction. If one of them now was seduced into a drug addiction, I would be royally p*ssed! Not because of her getting addicted. But because she chose to trust in the seductive lies of the drug more than she chose to trust in me, their father, who only has their best intentions at heart, and who told them only the truth.

Next I would be working to get her out of the addiction. There would be arguing and fights. There would be denying the truth. She would probably say that she hated me, that I'm too controlling, that I have too many rules. There would be a lot of pain for both of us. I would forgive her, even if she never forgave me. Maybe she would never speak to me again. That would be her choice. But I would go to extremes to help her find the right path again.

 

Now back in history, things are getting really screwed up. The Jews are misunderstanding God, and have created over 600 rules to follow. They believe that God is all about rules and regulations. If you're a Jew, you can hardly move without breaking one of their manmade rules.

But it's simply not true. Another lie cooked up by the devil, and successfully implanted into religion. We see this still today in many religions.

 

So God formulates a new plan. A new covenent, if you will. It is so clever and brilliant in that it both covers the debt of the blood sacrifice required for payment of sins, while not a single drop of blood needs to be shed by any person born of a human man and woman to pay that debt!

God decides that He Himself will pay the debt for His children's mistakes.

(Have any of you ever decided to pay for a mistake your child made? Why did you do it?)

 

So a part of God's soul or energy (pick your favorite term) is born on earth in the form of a human, in the person of Jesus. For all practical purposes, he is entirely human. He has the same experiences that all of us have. He has to learn everything down here, just as we do from the time we're babies.

The difference is that Jesus's heart and soul are more directly connected to God. (This is highly simplified, but you should get the point.)

 

Part of God's plan includes opening up salvation to the entire world's population. It is no longer just for the Jews, but for everyone, everywhere.

God, as Jesus, will take all human sin upon Himself, allow Himself to be insulted, whipped, beaten, scourged, and put to death. When He died on the cross, His soul was then forsaken by God in heaven for a short time, so He could "decend" to hell and complete His work of defeating Satan.

Jesus then rose 3 days later. It is well documented that He was seen by several hundred people. This gives us proof that there is life after what we call "death".

God's plan gave "debt paid-in-full" credit to all humans that died before Jesus's crucifixion, and will continue to give credit to all humans at their death. The covenent is for no human to ever have to pay for their sins. This is the default position. The offer is in place from the time you are born, but the credit is given when you die from this earth.

 

Take note that God does not look for ways to trip-you-up, or to create obstacles in your path. He does not create rules that will disqualify you.

A father does not pay the child's debt, just to turn around and offer the child the same temptation that caused the child's debt in the first place.

 

But be forwarned, that after the father offers to pay for the child's debt, if the child tells the father to get lost, he doesn't need his father's help, or if he tells his friends and family that he has no father, that his father never existed, then the truth is that the offer of debt forgiveness may be withdrawn.

 

You have all your sins forgiven from birth by default. There is nothing you can do to improve this position.

You can however, lose salvation by turning away from Jesus. Put simply, if you adopt the lie that Jesus did not die for your sins, then no one has yet paid for your sins. You are an adult. If you do not want Jesus to stand in for you as your surogate to atone for your sins, then you have every right to deny Him, and pay for your sins on your own. Ask any lawyer that tries his own defense, how that worked out for him. Only a fool does it.

 

So here we have it, God is continually, for all of history, trying to figure out why we're so obstinate and destructive in all aspects of our lives. Yet, He repeatedly forgives us, sacrifices for us, and tries to set us on the right path. Sure He gets p*ssed once in a while. Who would'nt? If the local gang-bangers were contantly trying to seduce your kids into their gang, wouldn't you do something about it?

 

As for Satan, just reading the various threads on this site exposes it all. The despair, anger, hatred, mistrust, envy. It says it all. This is all you get when you try to remove God from your life. Absolutely no hope or joy at all.

 

I do understand that many of you have had very bad personal experiences with church and religion. The stories are everywhere, and many within this forum. Please keep in mind that churches are filled with human people. There is not one that has not sinned many times. Churches, no matter the size, require some type of leadership. Being in this position can become an immense power trip. A very difficult temptation to stand up against.

Often we consider a church and it's leaders a type of "safe haven", thinking in some form that it's off limits to the devil. This is not the case. In fact, the devil does some of his best behind-the-scenes work within churches.

I am not criticizing churches. I belong to a fairly large one. I do not agree with eveything in the church I attend. I have had disagreements with church leaders. But the fellowship and close friendships I have forged there are priceless.

I can only suggest that if you are ever in a situation where someone in a church tries to control you or your actions with rules and regulations, then you should be questioning them and their motives.

Christians do not really believe in it themselves, they simply don't. Will you drink poison and remain unharmed....I doubt it, will you give away all that you own and follow Jesus, I doubt that too. 

 

The Christian faith is not only probably false, it is very very nasty, small minded, racist and sexist, and it's doctrines harmful to life and liberty. This is why thoughtful non believers campaign against it. A religion that winks at rapists and approves of owning and beating slaves is sick, simply sick. A religion that says kill for Jesus, is wicked. A religion that says that animals can talk , that axes float, that time travel can cure Royal boils and that a god has a hissy fit at a tree is laughable.

 

You have a church that makes you feel  closeness and fellowship and a god that brings you joy, so do Muslims, so your point is.........?

 

I see you fall into the old trap of blaming the Devil for the misfortunes and sins of the faith..........sad, really. I can't pray that one day you will see the Christian faith for what it is, a warped death cult that demands conformity, but I am willing to talk to my toaster on your behalf, if you would like me too. I suspect talking to my toaster , will have the same result that believers get when they use their magic thinking thoughts to talk to Yahweh in prayer........which is zero

 

Christians claim to have an invisible ghost living inside them and this ghost hooks them up with a long dead Jewish carpenter , who can read their thoughts.......

 

And they wonder why we laugh at them.....

 

Assuming you are not a "drive by Christian" and are here for the long haul, strap in............................. 

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Wow! Is this thread just a perfect example of how anger and hatred towards something just feeds upon itself?

 

Cat, as you stated: "p.s. none of them exist anyways so....", so why all the energy and hatred directed at someone that doesn't exist? That would be like frequently ranting about Bugs Bunny or Micky Mouse. Quite pointless and a waste of time.

It seems that most every thread eventually devolves down the same rabbit hole. Everyone jumping like lemmings over the cliff, trying to see who can claim the best twisted truth and the last word in trashing God.

 

So much mental and emotional energy spent. So much time wasted formulating, in some cases, articulate arguments and replies. And all this simply to debunk a supposedly fictional and non-existant character? I don't think any of you are so foolish as to waste so much of your limited precious time remaining (for those who don't believe in any afterlife) arguing against a fictional character. Move on already. Go live your life the best you can. Based on your postings in this forum, I can assume it's working out wonderfully well for you. Or is it...?

 

But since I'm pretty sure that all of you will remain here to continue trashing God and His followers, I think that this suggests highly that you do in fact believe in God, and you know that Jesus died for all our sins. Ranting and raving, denying, twisting scripture, throwing temper tantrums, and name calling works brilliantly to mask the truth, but it cannot change the truth.

 

 

Now, I know your ready to battle, so let's get on with it. HBEtechnician posed the following question:

"Think of all the shit the devil has done to man, now think of all the shit bible God has done to man.

Christians who do you think wins the nice guy award."

 

Unfortunately, this question in itself is quite absurd, and I'm not sure what it exposes about the experience or knowledge of the O.P. regarding competent or caring leadership.

Whether in business, politics, or anywhere else, a strong, competent, successful leader does not worry about winning some "nice guy" award. He or she cares for the organization and people that they are responsible for. The best leaders will make decisions based on what will be good in the end for everyone. Often the people will grumble and complain because they lack facts or accurate information regarding the big picture.

 

God has already spelled out the "big picture" for all of us. It is in the Bible, particularely in the New Testament.

It's not that hard to wrap your mind around. Here it is in a nutshell:

 

God created the universe. He created beings with free will, desires, and other attributes, including Lucifer, who's desire eventually turned to envy. That envy grew to mistrust and hatred of God. This eventually led to Lucifer battling God, and being defeated. Lucifer was then cast down to the earth, where he is allowed to roam and rule for awhile.

(If God were so vengeful and hateful, don't you think that He would have just "poofed" Lucifer away. Eliminated Lucifer's soul and existance? How about Lucifer's army, 1/3 of the angels? Why not simply eliminate them? Eliminate the threat? Start over with fresh angels?)

 

So now God creates humans, with souls, desires, and the ability to both receive and give love. (Most people think of humans as "bodies with souls". The soul as secondary, but this is incorrect. We are actually "souls inhabiting bodies". The soul, and heart, is primary to God.)

 

Right from the start God warns us about Lucifer, who is now known as Satan (or the devil). That Satan has become evil, and roams the earth. We are warned of Satan's lies, deceipt, and trickery. It's easy to understand a growing threat when you can see it coming at you, but the limitations of our physical eyesite and other senses don't even allow us to see him, to see spirit beings or angels, thus the threat was not understood.

We are also warned that we will have a difficult time here on earth. We will endure pain, hardship, disease, hatred, and many other troubles. In other words "this place is going to suck!". But we need to persevere. We are only here for a very brief time out of our entire infinite lives.

(Our time on this sinful earth out of the length of our infinite lives, can be equated to the time it takes for a single quick refueling stop during a year-long vacation.)

 

So, Adam and Eve were fooled by Satan into mistrusting God's intentions for them, and made a bad decision based on misrepresented information. Or to put it simply, they were conned by a thief, and unkwowingly let sin, and the effects of it, into this world.

I can imagine God might have been thinking "Crap! The kids have screwed up the whole plan. Now how do I fix this?"

 

I personally don't think that God expected sin to have such devestating effects on us, His children. I see many posts in this forum either referring to, or quoting OT scripture to show Gods anger.

Why wouldn't He get angry? His children are well warned about all types of evil and temptations, yet they continually gravitate towards it. Then when things get really bad, they come running back to their father (God) for awhile, who forgives them and takes them in. Feeds and clothes them again. The next thing you know, they get complacent and bored, and go wandering away towards trouble, and sin, again.

 

A side-note:

My daughters have been well-warned against drugs and the high rate of addiction. If one of them now was seduced into a drug addiction, I would be royally p*ssed! Not because of her getting addicted. But because she chose to trust in the seductive lies of the drug more than she chose to trust in me, their father, who only has their best intentions at heart, and who told them only the truth.

Next I would be working to get her out of the addiction. There would be arguing and fights. There would be denying the truth. She would probably say that she hated me, that I'm too controlling, that I have too many rules. There would be a lot of pain for both of us. I would forgive her, even if she never forgave me. Maybe she would never speak to me again. That would be her choice. But I would go to extremes to help her find the right path again.

 

Now back in history, things are getting really screwed up. The Jews are misunderstanding God, and have created over 600 rules to follow. They believe that God is all about rules and regulations. If you're a Jew, you can hardly move without breaking one of their manmade rules.

But it's simply not true. Another lie cooked up by the devil, and successfully implanted into religion. We see this still today in many religions.

 

So God formulates a new plan. A new covenent, if you will. It is so clever and brilliant in that it both covers the debt of the blood sacrifice required for payment of sins, while not a single drop of blood needs to be shed by any person born of a human man and woman to pay that debt!

God decides that He Himself will pay the debt for His children's mistakes.

(Have any of you ever decided to pay for a mistake your child made? Why did you do it?)

 

So a part of God's soul or energy (pick your favorite term) is born on earth in the form of a human, in the person of Jesus. For all practical purposes, he is entirely human. He has the same experiences that all of us have. He has to learn everything down here, just as we do from the time we're babies.

The difference is that Jesus's heart and soul are more directly connected to God. (This is highly simplified, but you should get the point.)

 

Part of God's plan includes opening up salvation to the entire world's population. It is no longer just for the Jews, but for everyone, everywhere.

God, as Jesus, will take all human sin upon Himself, allow Himself to be insulted, whipped, beaten, scourged, and put to death. When He died on the cross, His soul was then forsaken by God in heaven for a short time, so He could "decend" to hell and complete His work of defeating Satan.

Jesus then rose 3 days later. It is well documented that He was seen by several hundred people. This gives us proof that there is life after what we call "death".

God's plan gave "debt paid-in-full" credit to all humans that died before Jesus's crucifixion, and will continue to give credit to all humans at their death. The covenent is for no human to ever have to pay for their sins. This is the default position. The offer is in place from the time you are born, but the credit is given when you die from this earth.

 

Take note that God does not look for ways to trip-you-up, or to create obstacles in your path. He does not create rules that will disqualify you.

A father does not pay the child's debt, just to turn around and offer the child the same temptation that caused the child's debt in the first place.

 

But be forwarned, that after the father offers to pay for the child's debt, if the child tells the father to get lost, he doesn't need his father's help, or if he tells his friends and family that he has no father, that his father never existed, then the truth is that the offer of debt forgiveness may be withdrawn.

 

You have all your sins forgiven from birth by default. There is nothing you can do to improve this position.

You can however, lose salvation by turning away from Jesus. Put simply, if you adopt the lie that Jesus did not die for your sins, then no one has yet paid for your sins. You are an adult. If you do not want Jesus to stand in for you as your surogate to atone for your sins, then you have every right to deny Him, and pay for your sins on your own. Ask any lawyer that tries his own defense, how that worked out for him. Only a fool does it.

 

So here we have it, God is continually, for all of history, trying to figure out why we're so obstinate and destructive in all aspects of our lives. Yet, He repeatedly forgives us, sacrifices for us, and tries to set us on the right path. Sure He gets p*ssed once in a while. Who would'nt? If the local gang-bangers were contantly trying to seduce your kids into their gang, wouldn't you do something about it?

 

As for Satan, just reading the various threads on this site exposes it all. The despair, anger, hatred, mistrust, envy. It says it all. This is all you get when you try to remove God from your life. Absolutely no hope or joy at all.

 

I do understand that many of you have had very bad personal experiences with church and religion. The stories are everywhere, and many within this forum. Please keep in mind that churches are filled with human people. There is not one that has not sinned many times. Churches, no matter the size, require some type of leadership. Being in this position can become an immense power trip. A very difficult temptation to stand up against.

Often we consider a church and it's leaders a type of "safe haven", thinking in some form that it's off limits to the devil. This is not the case. In fact, the devil does some of his best behind-the-scenes work within churches.

I am not criticizing churches. I belong to a fairly large one. I do not agree with eveything in the church I attend. I have had disagreements with church leaders. But the fellowship and close friendships I have forged there are priceless.

I can only suggest that if you are ever in a situation where someone in a church tries to control you or your actions with rules and regulations, then you should be questioning them and their motives.

 

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Remember that god is the alpha and omega, the first and the last, and the admittant to creating evil. Evil was created by god and according to apologists (god's defense lawyers) no one can commit evil unless god first allows it. Since god allows it, he is an accomplice at the least.

 

We cannot be moral without God!

 

God's morality:

 

1. It's not ok for people to murder.

2. It's ok for God to murder.

 

So murder is sinful and holy. Yayyy!

 

/sarcasm.

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