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Goodbye Jesus

My Personal Exodus


HolyGoat

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Hello forum members! 

 

I have been browsing the forums here for a few weeks now, lurking, but not exactly committing to joining, but the community and support I see everywhere has convinced me. That is something I am in desperate need of. Here is my story:

 

Like many, or even most, of you, I was born and raised Christian. I went to a Christian school from K - 12 and a Christian University. I attended church every Sunday. You group whenever there was an active one at my church, or a friend's church. Bible studies. Mission trips. Evangelism teams The WHOLE ball of wax. I have heard of many people talking about the "well, they were never really a Christian" response to deconversion, and that line of thinking is just PATENTLY false. Though it really didn't take much for everything to come unraveling apart. It seems the most mind-boggling part for everyone I have told is that my deconversion is not in response to some horrible experience, or some crisis in my life. It just happened. Quickly, yes, but in retrospect, it had been building for years.

 

Let me start from the beginning so as to better lay out the process I went through before I could confidently and without shame say "There is no God!" 

 

I have always been a thinking man. An academic. A trained Biologist (yes trained at that same Christian university, which was actually an amazing experience and had a lot to contribute to my deconversion, but I will get to that later). My most treasured pursuits have been science, ethics, theology, philosophy, politics, etc. This has always been the case, even as a child. Even though I have always been a rational and logical person, much of that has to do with the intense well of emotion running beneath the surface, much like the Vulcans of Star Trek, logic and reason were my first line of defense against the crippling emotions tearing at my soul, longing to devour me. This being said, it was only natural that when I took an Ethics class in high school, one that truly forced me to think and sort through what I believed, I drank it in. My teacher was fantastic, and really tried his best to shatter everything we ever thought we knew so that we could build it back up for ourselves. This was the first fracture. I could see the contradictions between what was required of us as Christians and what I felt deep inside, and arguably all Christians feel, was the RIGHT thing. Thus, I made moral sacrifices for the sake of logical continuity. This class truly set me on my journey and was probably the most integral factor in my eventual deconversion.

 

The nest series of events was far more gradual than my previous experience. I enrolled in the Biology program without much thought, it seemed like a fitting stream of study, and it turns out I was correct. I took to it right away. Yes, this training was at a Christian university, but looking back, I am amazed at how liberal and open-minded the majority of the faculty was; the students even more so. In my classes, evolution was not so much taught, as assumed. A few classes took some time to lay out the facts, as they should, but rarely did they present it as a debate or something "to be discussed" or "explored." Now, this has been the first time I had really been exposed to the theory in much detail, but I had already been trained well enough in logic and reasoning to realize the weight of evidence. Thus, it took very little for me to decide there was no way this could not be true. How could a good, loving God create humans with the ability to reason and a thirst for knowledge, and then go planting evidence across the universe that directly contradicts what he actually did? The only reasonable explanation was that he simply used evolution as his "creative tool." If Genesis is taken as a figurative or poetic tribute to explain moral or theological truths instead of providing science, it would all make sense, right?

 

About that time I had been taking an elective course on the book of Genesis, and that line of thinking was EXACTLY what we were discussing. This was the class where the debate and discussion about evolution and theology occurred. I had no shame in expressing how I viewed the situation, and even wrote my final paper on how such a standpoint could be upheld.

 

For a while, things seemed to make sense. There were no science vs. faith conflicts, just misunderstandings of ancient texts meant for ancient peoples. It wasn't until much later that I realized how this just didn't make sense. I sat firmly and loftily on my high horse, thinking I had it all figured out and the other Christians were just deluded and somewhat ignorant. My faith had taken a completely intellectual pursuit, and in such, took on a sort of split personality. I began to realize just how much of faith was built on emotionalization. There were precious few Christians capable of meeting me at my level, intellectually. Some did, and presented very persuasive arguments, which I thirsted for, more due to the general lack of intellectualism in Christianity than the actual subject matter.

 

It was about this time that the depression I had been fighting since my youth took a rather ugly turn. My life began to rather quickly devolve into a blur of pleading for death and trudging along in a zombie-like state. Though I am married, my wife is not the most nurturing person and I have a hard-wired need to bury my pain deep inside, even from her. Loneliness became overwhelming. It was in this blur that we moved to a small town in the middle of nowhere Alberta, Canada. A very fundamentalist community that my wife's family has connections to (her father was a pastor and a bible school teacher here). Having left behind all of my friends (who were becoming increasingly few anyway) and moving to a town where intellectual stimulation is about as easy to come by as a store open past 10 pm, I felt trapped. I began pleading for God to show up. To merely touch my lips with a finger dipped in water to alleviate a tiny fraction of my pain. To be the friend, lover, father and savior he promised in the bible.  Anxiety from work, loneliness, feeling trapped, wanting above all else to just fade away into nothingness: it all culminated one night in an emphatic declaration: "FUCK YOU! I don't even care if you exist. If you want me COME AND GET ME!"

 

I would be lying if I said that solved all my issues, but for the time being, I felt more confident and less anxious and depressed. I finally had the backbone to stand up for myself. To dream for something for myself and MAKE IT HAPPEN! I didn't need to pine over "god's will" or wait for some arbitrary and foggy sign. I hadn't yet given up a god of some sort altogether, and in many ways I still haven't. I am more than willing to be corrected, but everything points towards the ridiculousness that is christianity. How could a loving god allow such torment, listen to such painful yearnings and do NOTHING?! I know that my situation isn't even so bad compared to the torture others have had to endure, and I cannot imagine how they could have done it. 

 

This decision brought me here, and here I found the resources I so desperately craved. The books, videos and above all, the knowledge to finally break the shackles once and for all. I watched a few deconversion stories, read a few books, namely: "Some Mistakes of Moses" and "The God Argument," and the pieces finally fell into place: it is all just a bunch of barely coherent babbling from superstitious, Bronze Age shepherds, later a desperate attempt by some disgruntled yet loyal students to keep their teacher's legacy alive and now a case of self-delusion and reading into coincidence. 

 

Now I am simply trying to figure out how to make the change. What to keep and what to leave behind. How to best shield my wife from the inevitable backlash from our very fundy community. She is still a Christian, though she has admitted to me that much of what I say makes sense. She's a main leader for the senior high youth at church, and I was (am?) too. Her parents and older sister are incredibly conservative (politically and religiously). I know I can't shield her from everything, but I want to make it as easy on her as possible. I figure I will have to stop volunteering with youth, seeing as though I disagree with most everything they are teaching, though I do still believe that these kids need people who love and support them unconditionally.

 

That is where I am at. In need of like minded community. People to vent to, to bounce ideas off of, to glean advice from and to give me encouragement as I move forward on this journey. I think people here can be that for me, and I am very much looking forward to it!!!

 

~CynicalGoat

 

P.S. If anyone has some insight into the various things I am concerned about moving forward, please feel free to enlighten me! Has anyone dealt with similar situations? How? Thanks!

 

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Welcome, CG! This is a great place to find like-minded people! Your tale of loneliness is just heartbreaking. I'm in a place where I really only have my husband to talk to and he's not quite on the same page as I am. It sounds as though your wife is at least sympathetic, and that's a big plus. You don't mention kids, so I assume that's not an issue? As you extricate yourself from serving at your church, I would recommend doing it slowly without too much fanfare. Whether you choose to come out to anyone is up to you, but I've gotten advice here to take it slow and really count the cost first. I have also struggled for decades with depression and am on a very good med right now that helps a lot. Do what you need to do to keep yourself sane and healthy and keep coming back. Would love to hear more from you!

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Welcome!

 

That backlash is hard to shield against, but all you can do is think about you and what you care about. The best defense I've seen that usually ends most argument is just a simple: "we'll see" when they start talking about how you'll be burning in hell and such. I honestly believe most "Christians" will wind up in Hell themselves if such a place exists. Most are nomial, thinking holding the title somehow guarantees their entrance into heaven. I can name about three off the top of my head that break several of "God's laws" daily, and still proudly call themselves Christians. All of them are guilty of judging, a no-no. Then you have the adulterers, I know several of those. The ones that lie, and the ones who merely use it as a shield when they feel threatened by anything.

It's a tough road, but all you can do is just enjoy that sense of relief that comes with leaving it all behind. All of the posturing that comes from the fundie community is laughable at best and they are the ones that will just as soon meet you in Hell if such a vile place existed. That's another good defense - a God so loving he made a place as vile and deplorable as Hell. That's some heavenly love eh?

Again, welcome and you'll find all kinds of support here. Take care!

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First of all, thanks for the encouragement and support! It means a lot to me.

 

I was a bit apprehensive about coming out to my wife, but she was very understanding and not judgemental at all. She basically said "this is your path to figure out for yourself." We don't have any kids yet, but we have already discussed it a bit. Basically I plan on raising my children to be rational, kind, inqusitive people. I cant hide who I am, so they will have every opportunity to hear both sides and make their own decisions.

 

Luckily, youth is on a hiatus for the summer, so I am planning on stepping aside before it picks up again, but still participating in some of the activity functions. I am also cutting back my church attendance to about once a month or so, to support the wife.

 

I just recently went on a pretty good depression and anxiety med. I flip flopped on whether I wanted to take it or not, but I fonally did and it has really helped!

 

I am definitely finding a lot of solace in my decision. Especially when learning to take credit for myself! Things work out because I make them work out!

 

Thanks again, both of you!

~CynicalGoat

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In your biology class, what made you resist the standard Christian reaction, "OMG cell life is so complex IT PROVES THERE REALLY IS A GOD! HALLELUJAH!"

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Honestly, by that time in my life, that sort of argument mwnt held very little water for me. That line of thinking didn't seem rational to me. Granted, I was still a Chriatian, but I had already been exposed to enough science to reject that sort of thinking. Also, I was never prone to such remarks in the first place.

 

On a side note, I never heard any of my professors say anything like that either, really. Only classmates on occasion.

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Guest sylensikeelyoo

Hi CG!!! So great to meet you and welcome to Ex-C!!! I'm very happy you were able to share this part of your life with your wife and she's cool about it. I've heard horror stories about that not working out so well for the marriage. Also, like Daffodil said, just take it nice and slow if you do decide to come out. You said you live in a very Fundy community so keeping your lack of belief to yourself may be a good idea for now. Places like this are a great place to vent and have support and share things with like minded people. I'm looking forward to talking with ya more and reading more of your posts!! <3 hugs <3

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Welcome to the forum and good luck with your wife! At least she is listening to your concerns. That is a good sign that she at least respects you for you.

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Welcome!  I think you'll continue to find this a great place to ask questions, get answers, and just generally read up on interesting material.

 

I have no good ideas about how to shield your wife from the fundies around you, but I wish you both all the best.  I'm glad that she sounds so supportive of you.

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Thanks for the welcomes and the shows of support! I have said it before, but I will say it again, it means A LOT! I already came out to my mom, more because she forced me than anything. She kinda cornered me and asked in a pretty round about way, but I had had a VERY long day at work and wasn't in the mood for games, so I just threw it out there. I'm writing more about that in another post I am formulating. I also came out to my wife right away, that's just the kind of relationship we have. However, she doesn't think that I should be involved in youth in an official capacity any more, which I am inclined to agree about. However, I can't imagine it not coming out if I stop going to church regularly and quit volunteering with youth all at once. One way I am trying to shield her is by saying she is more than welcome to tell people "You will just have to ask him about that." Sucks for me, but she doesn't have to deal with my shit.

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One other aspect to being buried in a fundy community is the whole "now he's under the influence of the devil". I don't know if your group leans towards that kind of thing or not, mine did. Pastors will actually use that fear to try and drive a wedge between a husband and wife to keep the sheep in the fold and exclude the one that figured things out. Hopefully yours isn't that way, but be on the lookout. A lot of it depends on your wife's fears and ability to reason. It is always difficult to be separated from belonging, and it sounds like she has quite a family history wrapped up in this group.

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Evening.

 

Interesting situation.  My impression is very much that your wife is quite capable of looking after herself.  However, I understand your concerns.

 

I'm married to a woman who actually seems rather less conservative that others in the church to which she is, and, through her, I am, attached.  She knows of my issues with the beliefs and attitudes there, but seems almost to live in denial.  I suspect that it's on account of the familial and social connections that she has there.  It is because of those connections that I have kept things low key.  Sound at all familiar?

 

My approach has been a slow withdrawal.  The Wednesday night meeting went by the board ("goes on too long").  Then the Monday night ("too tired when I get in from work").  I stopped going to the prayer meeting that is held prior to the Sunday evening "Gospel Meeting" (hardly anyone does go anyway, so it was not really noticed).  I stopped singing the hymns (stand up with everyone else but make no noise) and refused to do any more preaching ("I'm not convinced that the public place is right for me...").  Each of these were individual steps over a couple of years, and has led to the situation where I just turn up, usually sleep for an hour or two and am largely ignored.  I can live with that.  You might find a similar strategy helpful.

 

I have the advantage of living in a far more secular community than you, however.  Is moving out an option?  I wonder whether your wife might even welcome such a move herself?

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Luckily this town isn't quite as fundy as all that. First off, being Canadian, they are quite a bit more moderate on many things. Hardcore political and religiously conservative yes, but not quite the Southern Baptist, Fire-and-Brimstone, etc. sort of thing. Not sure how quick to use the "under the influence of the devil" thing, but I can't be sure yet. I have lived here less than a year, so I don't claim to know how they might react. Probably similarly to my mother: with sadness and concern that something terrible happened to make me "lose my faith."

 

I think I am going to try that slow withdrawal technique. After the summer, I can stop volunteering with youth because it will be on a week night and I get up very early for work and am very tired when I get home. We don't super regularly go to church anyway, so me only showing up every once in a while may not draw all that much attention. I already don't sing a long and generally zone out for the relatively short sermons. It just seems like such a waste of time now (and honestly often did, even before). 

 

My wife is actually quite intelligent as well. University educated (International Foreign Policy and Conflict) with quite a good head on her shoulders. Perhaps not the same history of rationality as me, but she can certainly hold her own. Part of her thing is the word of those she trusts most is LAW to her. She just isn't as naturally skeptical as I am, so it doesn't always occur to her to question things. I think my journey will be good for her as well. Honestly, she is hardly recognizable as a Christian most of the time. She never reads the Bible (anymore), never prays (except maybe privately), goes to church out of habit or desire for social connection than actual spirituality. She just seems to believe in a a god who kinda helps you out when you are in a bind, maybe. When I first met her, she was much more like her parents, conservative through and through. Since we've been together, she has changed her opinion on creationism (accepts evolution, age of the earth, etc. except has a hard time with ape --> man), changed her opinion on homosexuality (the really outspoken ones still bug her, but such is the case with anyone like that), even changed her political alignment from Conservative (read: Republicans, but Canadian) to Green Party of Canada (read: freaking awesome).

 

So ya, there is hope for her. She respects my journey, knows what I am going through, and is actively encouraging me to pursue the truth, no matter where it leads me. She did say the other day that she would be lying if she said she wasn't concerned about me, but I think that has more to do with all of the depression stuff and the possible societal response than the actual deconversion itself. We are actively talking about moving to Vancouver Island (a MUCH more liberal and open society), but we both have good jobs here for now. If she gets promoted, I think she'll ask for a position out there.

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Welcome, CG, and good luck!

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Good luck with your withdrawal.  Your wife sounds very much like someone going through the motions out of concern to preserve her way of life/circle of friends etc, so you may well find yourself leading her to freedom in due course.

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Thanks TrueFreedom and Ellinas!

 

I definitely do hope that I can help her realize the truth.

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Welcome to our home on the Web. What to keep and what to leave behind? Treat others the way you wish to be treated. The rest is baggage.

 

Buddhism: “Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful" (Udanavarga 5:18)

Hindusim: “This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you” (Mahabharata 5:1517)
Confucianism: "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" (Analects 15:23)

 

Pastor No Faith is in situation somewhat similar to your own. Luckily, his wife seems to be as understanding as your own.
 

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Wow, Qad, that is a great resource! Thanks. I am definitely going to glean all the info I can from him!

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Welcome to our home on the Web. What to keep and what to leave behind? Treat others the way you wish to be treated. The rest is baggage.

 

Buddhism: “Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful" (Udanavarga 5:18)

Hindusim: “This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you” (Mahabharata 5:1517)

Confucianism: "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" (Analects 15:23)

 

Pastor No Faith is in situation somewhat similar to your own. Luckily, his wife seems to be as understanding as your own.

 

Thanks for the support.  I had to create an account just to say thank you.

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PastorNoFaith, I have to say that I REALLY appreciate your blog! Thank you for honestly relating your experiences.

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Hi CG. This has been a good place for me.

Welcome and I look forward to conversation

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As long as what I am doing is appreciated, then I will continue writing.  Have you thought about blogging?

 

By the way, you can follow me on Twitter

@pastornofaith

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Welcome to our home on the Web. What to keep and what to leave behind? Treat others the way you wish to be treated. The rest is baggage.

 

Buddhism: “Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful" (Udanavarga 5:18)

Hindusim: “This is the sum of duty: do not do to others what would cause pain if done to you” (Mahabharata 5:1517)

Confucianism: "Do not do to others what you do not want them to do to you" (Analects 15:23)

 

Pastor No Faith is in situation somewhat similar to your own. Luckily, his wife seems to be as understanding as your own.

 

Thanks for the support.  I had to create an account just to say thank you.

 

 

We can all resonate to your coming out story. And we do need an Atheist Theologion on our side. Thanks!

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Welcome to the forums 

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Welcome from another Albertan CG! Similar story for me, but luckily my wife "saw the light" pretty quick and we both managed to take this incredible journey together. Wishing you all the best and hope to "see you" around the forums on ex-c!

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