Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Accidental Coming Out


HolyGoat

Recommended Posts

My mother and my youngest brother were visiting this past week. I just went through the emotional phase of my deconversion and now I am starting on the intellectual phase. Obviously this includes snatching up as many books as I can on the subject. I picked up a copy of Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion and The Blind Watchmaker as well as A.C. Greyling's The God Argument along with a few other books on evolution and a few on environmental issues (both subjects I had been very interested in long before my conversion). With my mother visiting and her being quite the charismatic Christian (at least she has since my parents divorced over 10 years ago), I made it a point to hide this kind of literature from her. She tends to be very nosy, so I just KNEW she would ask about it.

 

I had been doing pretty well all week. The books were sitting on my night stand, but I made sure to put one of the environmental ones on top. However, one evening I came home from work incredibly tired and a little stressed (I work construction and we hit some gas lines we didn't know were there) and all I wanted to do was sit in my room and read. I have a few books on my phone, so I figured those were the safest to read while she was around, but I got sloppy and left The God Argument lying next to me on the bed (face down and partially under my leg, of course). Well, she came in to say something or ask something, I don't know what, sat down and noticed the book. Being who she is, she picked it up and asked "What are you reading?" I simply replied something dodgy like "Just some book I found," but of course she picked it up and read the back. Within seconds she muttered "Interesting" and got up and left.

 

Not long after, I could hear her drilling my wife in the living room about me. My wife, tactful as can be, simply said "You'll have to ask him about that." A few minutes later she came back and warned me, "I think your mom is concerned about you."

 

Sure enough, my mom showed up in about ten minutes and started awkwardly asking about the books I had been reading. I tried to be tactful and just say, "It just doesn't make any sense to me any more but I don't want to talk about it." Of course, she couldn't just leave it at that, so she began crying and said "You were always the strongest believer of all my boys" (I have 4 brothers). I tried to point out the fact that I am not the same person I was 10 years ago when I lived at home, which I don't think she really heard. Then she asked if she could pray for me. My response was: "You can if you'd like, if it'd make you feel better, but I doubt it will change anything." To which she responded "Well, these things tend to come full circle."

 

Yea. Right. At that point I was just done. She obviously wouldn't understand. So I just got silent, and fiddled with my iPod, while she sat awkwardly on the edge of the bed, looking deeply, deeply concerned. This lasted for a number of excruciatingly awkward minutes before she said, "Well, if you ever want to tell me what happened, I'm here."

 

Again, she just DIDN'T get it! She seemed convinced that some horrible, horrendous thing happened to me to shake my faith and I was just too hurt or embarrassed to tell her about it. No matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't convince her that wasn't the case. It wasn't some emotional event that shattered my belief, though one such event did contribute. The clincher was the stupidity, the ridiculousness of the whole thing. Once the blinders of "faith" were removed, all of the bullshit seeped out, and once you look past that curtain, there is no unseeing it all.

 

After a few more minutes of awkwardly playing with my iPod, waiting for her to leave, I think she realized she would get no more out of me. I wasn't interested in a debate, and I made that known, so she left. My guess is she went to try to weasel more information out of my wife. I know how that went for her. Not great. For the rest of the week she was adamant and forceful about praying before every meal and quite passive aggressively left her bible and devotional book on the kitchen table when I came home from work. 

 

I have already pushed myself further away from my mother for a myriad of other reasons, but I feel as though this will be something to really force us apart. She lives in Kansas, I live in Alberta, so we don't exactly see each other often. She is very emotionally needy, and I am extremely emotionally unavailable. Honestly, I am ok if we grow apart. Should I be ashamed of this? Should I feel bad about it? I don't, but a part of me says that I should. Perhaps only time will tell how this shakes out, but as it stands my relationship with my mother will never again be what it once was. And I am ok with that.

 

~CynicalGoat

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear about the awkward position you were in. It's always frustrating dealing with true believers who have no capacity to understand where we're coming from. It sounds like your wife is probably supportive, so that's good. I don't know what else to say other than good luck as you deal with the situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you handled yourself well.  It's no fun to be in a situation like that.  It's not your fault if her actions

 

put a strain on your relationship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suspect your relationship with ur mum still has to find an equalibrium.i wouldn't feel guilty or second guess urself bout how you "should" feel.god we all had enough of that in Christianity lol.you feel what you feel. I've experienced great lack of feeling for my siblings and parents and I kno how you feel.it can be quite suprising that all of a sudden you realise you don't really care how once you may hav done.i think that's a healthy sign of growth as you follow ur own path as a man,one that with ur leaving Christianity has not 'settled' out yet.what i mean by that is that that shes always held in her mind bout u being the strongest christian amoung her boys.ur not anymore and thats the different thing that has to settle...it will in time and it'll b what it'll b.at that point I'm sure you'll find these situations easier to deal with.but in meantime go easy on urself.u were just in from work and had a rare day....and then the convo you knew one day you'd hav suddenly cropped up.you had little to give coz you were just in from work.dny beat urself up over it,unsettling for u tho it was.

Btw sounds like ur Mrs is a 'good un' ,my compliments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest sylensikeelyoo

So sorry to hear about that CG. Don't feel guilty about not wanting a relationship with your mom if she's gonna be like that. She needs to come to grips with the fact that you've made up your mind, you've left the fold and that's the end of it. Of course, she has been taught that what you've done is the worst thing you can possibly do and you're gonna suffer in hell worse than the regular non believers. Because, lets face it. In Abrahamic religions, the only thing worse than a non believer or a pagan is an apostate. That's right up there with devil worship in the Christian mind. But maybe over time, she will grow to accept your decision, if she wants a decent relationship with you. Best of luck to ha CG! Hope your mom comes to her senses one day! <3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear about that experience. I have a VERY similar one, but it worked out a bit differently. I came out to my parents early on in our deconversion (my wife and I). It was very hard and very awkward and we still don't really talk about it. What made it MUCH worse, was when my mom came on this site (ex-c) and figured out who I was from my username and read my posts where I was struggling with coming out to her and my dad! WOW. Talk about fu(king awkward

 

After I calmed down a bit, I realized that she was just looking for answers and didn't mean to pry into my business. Since then, I've kept my username the same and I often wonder if she still comes on here to read my posts. If she does, I hope she knows that despite all our differences now, I still love her and my dad. Leaving the faith of our parents hurts them beyond measure - they only know one way and they really do believe that we are destined for the fires of hell. This must be very hard on them, so I try to give them a break and don't rub it in their faces.

 

But just because I want to be nice to my parents, doesn't mean there's 'hope' for me. I will never go "full circle" or ever believe in Yahweh, or any other man-made deity again.

 

Good luck on your journey and keep us updated on the various drama that I'm sure is in your future. I hope you and your wife are on the same page as this will be a huge support for you, as it was for me.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are not responsible for your mother's emotions.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys. I have a hard time keeping my mom at arms length sometimes. When I lived at home, I was really the only person she could go to with things (and things were NOT great then). Things have taken a bit of a turn for the worse recently as well, and I just can't be there for her like she needs, for so many reasons. Sure, I want to love her and support her (even if she struggles doing that for me), but I just don't think I can be what she wants.

 

Ug . . . whenever I spend time with her, I remember why I don't particularly like spending time with her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry that you had to deal with this awkward situation and having to "come out" under pressure when you were trying to avoid it, instead of when you were good and ready. I am terrified that a situation very similar to this will happen to me soon. My in-laws are already quite suspicious about the fact that my husband and I have not been attending church, and have done lots of passive-aggressive things like what you mentioned (leaving Bibles out, etc.) to try to convince us to return to the fold. My brother-in-law came out as atheist years ago, and we went to him for advice, which I will pass on to you. He told us to just be honest about our beliefs. The parents won't like it, but that's not our problem - it's theirs. Changing their minds will likely not happen, and growing apart is nearly inevitable, but for our own sanity, honesty is likely the best policy. Whether or not this is solid advice, I am not sure - we haven't "come out" yet. But don't feel guilty about growing apart from your mother. When fundamental beliefs are so vastly different, it's inevitable. You shouldn't need to hide or lie to have a relationship with her, and if her attitude necessitates that, than growing apart is perhaps the healthiest thing for you.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That is some great advice, Somanyquestions! Ever since I moved out of her house, I have tried to let that gap grow between us, for a number of reasons. I think I will just consider this another one.

 

I am interested in your situation with your in-laws, however, since it sounds similar to mine. My wife is still a christian and her family is all quite conservative. I think my BIGGEST fear in all of this is the reaction of her family, particularly her pastor/bible college professor father and her Masters in Theology and seminary professor sister. Even less than my fear of their reaction to me, is my fear of their reaction toward my wife. She has an amazing relationship with them, and I fear I may strain it...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CG, your mom sounds exactly like mine used to be. The emotional manipulation is very difficult to live with. You can never do enough for emotionally needy people like this. They are happy only when they are securely the centre of attention. But even then they're not truly happy because they fear losing that all-important spot in your heart and eye. Children, for them, are the source of unconditional love. But children soon grow into individuals capable of their own thoughts and feelings and decisions. You're obviously an adult capable of deciding for yourself whether or not to follow your mother's religion. 

 

And she, as another adult, has chosen to believe that she must force her son to stick to childhood teachings.

 

Looks to me like you and your mother differ on not only one but two fundamental values: religion and the concept of whether or not children must follow their parents for life.

 

The tribal instinct from the dawn of human history has been for children to follow in the steps of their parents regarding beliefs about the universe. You and I and most people on these forums have broken with this instinct and it causes untold anguish with our families. 

 

I don't know what to do about it because we would never choose to do this to our loved ones if we had a choice. The problem is that we have to live with ourselves, too. My argument (and people like our mothers will never hear it even if we tell them) is that it's people like us that have caused the progress in our world and society because we seek improvement and don't fear change. 

 

This probably seems a bit off-topic or deep, but I'm trying to get at the root of what really is going on in cases like this. The true believers will say they fear for our eternal salvation and I don't doubt that for a moment. But I'm arguing here that there's more to it than that--that on a deeper level they fear to break with tradition, they fear change, they fear to investigate their beliefs, etc.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

R.S., you are absolutely correct. This is far from the only time I have witnessed emotional manipulation from my mother. She does it all of the time. I blame my resistance to emotions on that very thing. It's hard to be emotionally manipulated when you have no real emotions to manipulate. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, sorry to hear that. It sounds like you and your mother might need some distance. It was hard for me to feel bad for my parents' crying and guilting when I had seen it before and explained that I wasn't interested in being Christian. My dad also pulls guilt cards about not wanting to go to church. I completely understand how her pushing annoys you. You're not bad for being okay with letting that weirdness go. Only you are in that certain situation; only you really know how your mother acts, and if you want to distance yourself, who is anyone to judge?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For YEARS I had dreams... nightmares really... about talking to my parents about my non-belief. I've now mentioned it, subtly and carefully, more than a few times, and they seem to know, deep down, where I stand (don't go to church, won't ever go again, don't believe the way they do politically or religiously) but they still seem to have amnesia when we talk in person. I just calmly, gently remind I won't attend the Christmas service when they invite me during a visit, etc.

 

I'm lucky that we all just want to get along. I know they worry about my soul. I don't rub it in or antagonize. But if they push too hard, they will bump up against my boundaries.

 

You can see from Facebook that all my Christian conservative family post about their beliefs. I post about my life, family, friends, activities, etc and don't post anything religious or political at all. I just leave it out.

 

I find overall that atheists are more respectful and thoughtful of religious people's beliefs than they are about non-believer's non-beliefs.

 

I understand why too. They think we are risking eternity in hell. We think they are risking... well, nothing but a silly belief in a pretty afterlife for themselves that doesn't exist. If they are wrong, when they die.... the same thing happens to them that happens to us. Nothing. They think if we die, and we're wrong, eternity in hell tormented in a lake of fire.

 

I just feel sympathy for them, because that's a really sad, factless fear. I'm relieved of that fear, and that's way better than a promise for heaven. None of my relatives are going to suffer for eternity. I'm more than happy to give up the idea of heaven for me in exchange for no hell for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sorry to hear of your mother's reaction, CG.  There has been a lot of good advice and perspectives on this thread.

 

You need not answer this, but I'm wondering whether your mother was "born again" before she was divorced.  Was your dad? Did they think that God was OK with their getting divorced?

 

RaLeah, good to see you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both of my parents were relatively lukewarm christians. We went to church every Sunday and tried doing small group/bible study type things, but nothing other than the Sunday attendance really stuck. We didn't really talk about it as a family, we were expected to uphold loosely christian values. The bulk of our spiritual teaching and guidance came from the christian school I attended. I think my dad was probably more serious about it than my mom was. However, AFTER the divorce, my mom became VERY religious. Now she would probably fall under the new-wave charismatic label.

 

To put your final question in perspective, I highly doubt my dad thought it was OK, but it was 100% my mom's doing. I don't really buy her reasoning either, I think she convinced herself of things that never happened or convinced herself that things that did happen, happened in a MUCH different way. I am not particularly inclined to airing their issues on a  public forum (which I know all of you understand), but I do see the value in your question and wanted to give as much of an answer as I could.

 

RaLeah, I don't know if I would have agreed with you before I deconverted, but I definitely agree now. Yes, there are militant atheists out there, but the number of christians who are completely and utterly intolerant of people who don't believe any religion is far higher. And I too feel sympathy for them. They are wasting SO MUCH time. Granted, it truly does make some people feel better, and I get that, but the harm it does and the time it wastes saddens me.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, on the bright side, I suppose doing this accidentally at least got it out of the way with minimal stress in the build-up...

 

There is no easy answer to the situation however.  It's just worth being aware that your mother has no business trying to pressurize you.  If she tries and that pushes you away, that is her problem and responsibility at the end of the day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You have only supplied a few descriptions of your mother, but they are enough for me to read between the lines. I'm sure, like my mother, you could write pages and pages of her manipulations, distortions, selective memories, altered histories, emotional games, abuses of you and/or your siblings (scapegoat, golden child, lost child), and outright dysfunction. I would suggest that you do a search for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or mothers with NPD, or adult children of narcissists (ACON).

 

If this applies to her, you may start to realize that you are not at fault, you are not responsible for her emotional well-being, and you are not the only one. I found the research (and stories from other sufferers) to be engrossing for me, and although I was saddened to realize that others suffered similarly to me (the similarity of the patterns is eerie and shocking), I was relieved to know that the problem was my mother's (and my father's a little too), and not mine. Once you see the problem, you may be able to learn about and feel confident about boundaries, and start to heal. Once my eyes were opened, I progressed more quickly with my own healing and growing.

 

I was the scapegoat in my family. Seeing in black and white the typical coping mechanisms and patterns of behavior (especially once a scapegoat is an adult) that applied so well to me ... it rang so true with me. But now that I see the bigger picture and have learned ways to deal with the family dysfunction and overcome some of my less healthy patterns of responding to them and to life in general, I am finally getting somewhere!

 

Parents with NPD also tend to have strong, opinionated, and bullying religious attitudes toward their children. You know... what will the people at church think? It's always all about them and how they look, and often in the context of the other Christians in her/his community. The family looks nice and clean and strong on the outside, but the emotional and spiritual abuse (and often physical abuse) is well hidden.

 

Because of the pattern of religiosity with these people, I think there are probably many people in the ExC community who have suffered from NPD parent(s). So even if this does not apply to you, maybe someone will see themselves and their dysfunctional family, and discover some truths and healing strategies.

 

Boundaries. Self-preservation.

 

Peace to you, CG.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's been two weeks now since you first posted this. Any updates? Are you feeling better? I assume you've had some time to think now that they have gone home. (Even without an encounter like yours, for me there is always a bit of decompression time after family leaves from a visit -- ugh!) Now that you have your space back, has your mind cleared a bit?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, for the past week I have been on vacation with my wife's family (all pretty fundy), which was difficult because none except my youngest sister-in-law's husband and my wife know. Luckily I have had a good amount of time to decompress.

 

I actually e-mailed both of my older brothers and came out to them. Mostly because I thought perhaps my mom would go freaking out to them, and she has a tendency to distort reality, so I wanted them to hear it from me directly. They were both pretty cool. One brother said he isn't really a christian any more either (though I don't know if he would go as far as to say atheist) and the other said he is still a believer, but is quite liberal in his beliefs, though he did ask for more detail on my actual deconversion, so I am currently working on an email for him.

 

I still hear every few days from my mom. Usually just: have a good week, love you! or some such. Normal for her, but not usually so frequent. I think she is still under the impression that I am in some dark, sad place and need to be "encouraged" or something. Either way, haven't talked about it since, and I don't plan to. She is pretty timid and non-confrontational, so I doubt she would bring it up either.

 

Either way, I have washed my hands of the situation. She can take it however she wants, but I don't want to compromise my well-being. I have increasingly taken the attitude of "screw what other people think and how they will take it." I am tired of pretending and putting myself last. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mostly because I thought perhaps my mom would go freaking out to them, and she has a tendency to distort reality, so I wanted them to hear it from me directly. 

 

Oh my, do I know all about this! When I was back in college, I had to finally cut my mother off completely because any tidbit of information she got from me would be distorted as it was retold, to elicit whatever she wanted at the time: sympathy, disgust, pride, drama, you name it. I went for 13 years no contact, during which time I graduated college, got married twice, graduated with my master's, and gave birth to my only child (the only granddaughter) -- all of which she missed. I let her back into my life (very limited contact) during my post partum depression days because I was desperate and thought she might have changed her ways. She was good for a while, but after a few years her old ways crept back in. A bunch of drama ensued last year with my little brother's cancer and death, so I had to go no contact again (on top of all the other emotional turmoil I'm feeling with his passing).

 

My older sister is now dealing with her more intensely (always has, because as the golden child she was always somewhat shielded from mother's antics), and mother is becoming more and more unhinged now. A few weeks ago, my sister lamented that she was becoming exasperated with how mother just lies all the time, for no reason. When she confronts her on her lies, mother gets confused, weepy, or pulls the guilt-trip "I guess I'm just a bad person and a terrible mom" bullshit. While I was sympathetic to my sister, inside I was laughing a bit -- so, now 30 years later you are understanding what I've been dealing with all these years, and why I stay away from that psycho. I don't fall for the "but she's your own mother" crap any more. And my poor sister is freaked out a bit that mother and her prayer group are always praying for her over this nonsense, as if my sister has the problem. Who knows what they think of me, she says. (FYI, my sister is a wonderful person, a great mother and wife, and a success in life. I like to think that I am too. Mother is just a self-absorbed drama queen who lives for attention from others over her souped up "drama".)

 

Sorry if this is off topic. My point is that I completely support you in creating a very firm boundary with your mother. If you choose to go low contact (or no contact), do not feel guilty or evil or whatever. You have a right and an obligation to your own sanity and peace and life and happiness.

 

I applaud you for discussing this with your brothers. For me, I learned to not give a shit what mother convinced my long lost cousins of, but I drew the line at trying to mess with me and my two beloved siblings. But I admit, constantly cleaning up from her drama was exhausting at times.

 

Deconversion is enough of a journey in itself, you don't need her external drama piled on.

 

You are free to live your life, and now you are free from the religious nonsense too. Hurray! Be strong and keep your distance when needed. Your sanity and happiness are yours to grow and protect.

 

I hope you're finding peace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I truly believe that my mom does not have any ill intent. She cares about myself and my brothers immensely, but she also depends on us. Depends on us too much. That dependency has crossed a line for me and I cannot continue enabling her. 

 

Thank you, and I am learning to find peace! Slowly but surely. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I truly believe that my mom does not have any ill intent. She cares about myself and my brothers immensely, but she also depends on us. Depends on us too much. That dependency has crossed a line for me and I cannot continue enabling her. 

 

Thank you, and I am learning to find peace! Slowly but surely. 

Enabling and codependency are usually a bad combination.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.