Guest end3 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 And he mentioned justice.....that everyone had the adequate/equal provisions. Anyone like to talk about greed? All thoughts are welcome of course. If you can't tell, I walked away from there pissed because it's like we are going to present this one sided argument without actually thinking about it......realistically. Or maybe I have a greed problem and it made me mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Two things seem relevant. One, we must have something to give. And two, I can't recall in my 50 years EVER hearing about some other country donating for the wellbeing of those in the US. Will be open to documentation, but I have never seen a clean water device donated to someone in S. Texas living in squalor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 So, he's saying we should all give, though we may not be able to give? The preacher might want to define greed. Like does it mean owning a car and a house? Or having a bank account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 So, he's saying we should all give, though we may not be able to give? The preacher might want to define greed. Like does it mean owning a car and a house? Or having a bank account? Thinking he was trying to equate justice to equality. That if we have more, ANY more than what we need, justice and equality are not served, hence greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 If you can't tell, I walked away from there pissed because it's like we are going to present this one sided argument without actually thinking about it......realistically. Presenting realistic arguments about whether or not people can 'give' doesn't feed the pastor. Some pastor told my Grandmother that she should 'give!' even though she was raising 5 children on a welfare benefit during the Depression. That never sat well with Mom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Two things seem relevant. One, we must have something to give. And two, I can't recall in my 50 years EVER hearing about some other country donating for the wellbeing of those in the US. Will be open to documentation, but I have never seen a clean water device donated to someone in S. Texas living in squalor. What should you be doing about the people in your home state, living in squalor, End? Spending time here, talking about yourself? Or something else...? . . . James 2 : 14 - 17 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Anybody else think it is ironic that a preacher would talk about greed and then pass the offering plate? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Two things seem relevant. One, we must have something to give. And two, I can't recall in my 50 years EVER hearing about some other country donating for the wellbeing of those in the US. Will be open to documentation, but I have never seen a clean water device donated to someone in S. Texas living in squalor. What should you be doing about the people in your home state, living in squalor, End? Spending time here, talking about yourself? Or something else...? . . . James 2 : 14 - 17 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?[/size] [/size]15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.[/size] [/size]16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” [/size]but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?[/size] [/size]17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.[/size] Don't think any of us are "finished". You keep intentionally comparing Christians against a finished standard, Christ. The point is we are not finished in practice. But thanks though BAA, it confirms what kind of person your are. Precisely why I have you on ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Anybody else think it is ironic that a preacher would talk about greed and then pass the offering plate? Greed has many facets.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Two things seem relevant. One, we must have something to give. And two, I can't recall in my 50 years EVER hearing about some other country donating for the wellbeing of those in the US. Will be open to documentation, but I have never seen a clean water device donated to someone in S. Texas living in squalor. What should you be doing about the people in your home state, living in squalor, End? Spending time here, talking about yourself? Or something else...? . . . James 2 : 14 - 17 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?[/size] [/size]15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.[/size] [/size]16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” [/size]but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?[/size] [/size]17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.[/size] Don't think any of us are "finished". You keep intentionally comparing Christians against a finished standard, Christ. The point is we are not finished in practice. But thanks though BAA, it confirms what kind of person your are. Precisely why I have you on ignore. He is the kind of person who keeps mentioning the areas where your religion doesn't match reality? Christ isn't finished, he is imaginary. We can't be imaginary in practice because we are real. The point is that your religion doesn't work. It demands that we become an idealistic standard that can't work in the real world. Case in point - take the scam artist who preached a message about greed and then accepted a tithing collection. Is he becoming closer to the impossible standard of imaginary Christ? Of course not! Christ is a tool to keep tithing money flowing to pastors. Even widows should give their last penny to the scam artists. Imaginary God will reward your faith after you no long exit during the imaginary afterlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Two things seem relevant. One, we must have something to give. And two, I can't recall in my 50 years EVER hearing about some other country donating for the wellbeing of those in the US. Will be open to documentation, but I have never seen a clean water device donated to someone in S. Texas living in squalor. What should you be doing about the people in your home state, living in squalor, End? Spending time here, talking about yourself? Or something else...? . . . James 2 : 14 - 17 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?[/size] [/size]15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.[/size] [/size]16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” [/size]but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?[/size] [/size]17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.[/size] Don't think any of us are "finished". You keep intentionally comparing Christians against a finished standard, Christ. The point is we are not finished in practice. But thanks though BAA, it confirms what kind of person your are. Precisely why I have you on ignore. No, I don't End. I have never compared you against a finished standard because that's your doctrine, not mine. Your doctrine of doing nothing now, because you're not "finished" by god is something I never subscribed to when I was christian and I certainly don't subscribe to it now. Jesus expects his true followers to live lives of sacrifice and service - day by day, meaning today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 Two things seem relevant. One, we must have something to give. And two, I can't recall in my 50 years EVER hearing about some other country donating for the wellbeing of those in the US. Will be open to documentation, but I have never seen a clean water device donated to someone in S. Texas living in squalor. What should you be doing about the people in your home state, living in squalor, End? Spending time here, talking about yourself? Or something else...? . . . James 2 : 14 - 17 14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?[/size] [/size]15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.[/size] [/size]16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” [/size]but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it?[/size] [/size]17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.[/size] Don't think any of us are "finished". You keep intentionally comparing Christians against a finished standard, Christ. The point is we are not finished in practice. But thanks though BAA, it confirms what kind of person your are. Precisely why I have you on ignore. No, I don't End. I have never compared you against a finished standard because that's your doctrine, not mine. Your doctrine of doing nothing now, because you're not "finished" by god is something I never subscribed to when I was christian and I certainly don't subscribe to it now. Jesus expects his true followers to live lives of sacrifice and service - day by day, meaning today! You lie BAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 No, I don't End. I have never compared you against a finished standard because that's your doctrine, not mine. Your doctrine of doing nothing now, because you're not "finished" by god is something I never subscribed to when I was christian and I certainly don't subscribe to it now. Jesus expects his true followers to live lives of sacrifice and service - day by day, meaning today! You lie BAA. I'm curious. What part(s) of that do you consider to be false? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 So, he's saying we should all give, though we may not be able to give? The preacher might want to define greed. Like does it mean owning a car and a house? Or having a bank account?Thinking he was trying to equate justice to equality. That if we have more, ANY more than what we need, justice and equality are not served, hence greed. This idea has always bothered me. Who gets to decide whether a particular individual has too little, just enough, or too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 He says he's just pointing out doctrine. Yes, people can't live to that standard, but that's not his intent. His intent is to use the doctrine to intentionally hurt people by pointing out they are not equal to that standard. It's mean spirited, near hate-filled in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 So, he's saying we should all give, though we may not be able to give? The preacher might want to define greed. Like does it mean owning a car and a house? Or having a bank account?Thinking he was trying to equate justice to equality. That if we have more, ANY more than what we need, justice and equality are not served, hence greed. This idea has always bothered me. Who gets to decide whether a particular individual has too little, just enough, or too much? Yes, all of the above. One can even argue that God is teaching the person with "too much" what they need to know to be better people. Have to run D. Will return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 He says he's just pointing out doctrine. Yes, people can't live to that standard, but that's not his intent. His intent is to use the doctrine to intentionally hurt people by pointing out they are not equal to that standard. It's mean spirited, near hate-filled in my opinion. I think your mind-reading powers are not working. I'm sure you are way off. I was expecting you to say something like "Jesus does not expect Christian to live lives of sacrifice/service" or that we were not to do it today, not for you to make up fictional intent for BAA. Maybe you should ask people their intent instead of assuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 This idea has always bothered me. Who gets to decide whether a particular individual has too little, just enough, or too much? Yes, all of the above. One can even argue that God is teaching the person with "too much" what they need to know to be better people. Have to run D. Will return. You can say it but you can't back it up with a valid argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 He says he's just pointing out doctrine. Yes, people can't live to that standard, but that's not his intent. His intent is to use the doctrine to intentionally hurt people by pointing out they are not equal to that standard. It's mean spirited, near hate-filled in my opinion. End, How can I be using your doctrine (which I've already stated that I did not and do not hold to) to hurt you? You and I are clearly referring to two different doctrines. The one that you think I'm holding you to (whatever that is) and the one that I'm actually holding you to. . . . So, perhaps you'd better explain your doctrine of not-lifting-a-finger-to-feed-the-hungry-until-finished-by-Christ...? Because I certainly don't understand it and if I don't understand it, I can't be holding you to it, can I? Yes, please explain what you mean by Christians being "finished" by Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 He says he's just pointing out doctrine. Yes, people can't live to that standard, but that's not his intent. His intent is to use the doctrine to intentionally hurt people by pointing out they are not equal to that standard. It's mean spirited, near hate-filled in my opinion. End, How can I be using your doctrine (which I've already stated that I did not and do not hold to) to hurt you? You and I are clearly referring to two different doctrines. The one that you think I'm holding you to (whatever that is) and the one that I'm actually holding you to. . . . So, perhaps you'd better explain your doctrine of not-lifting-a-finger-to-feed-the-hungry-until-finished-by-Christ...? Because I certainly don't understand it and if I don't understand it, I can't be holding you to it, can I? Yes, please explain what you mean by Christians being "finished" by Christ. I've already stated what I believe you to be doing. Not going to play games with you BAA. Adios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 This idea has always bothered me. Who gets to decide whether a particular individual has too little, just enough, or too much? Yes, all of the above. One can even argue that God is teaching the person with "too much" what they need to know to be better people. Have to run D. Will return. You can say it but you can't back it up with a valid argument. Right, but if we are holding ourselves to the Christian doctrine, I believe that we are presented with challenges in our lives per God's plan to make us better people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 . . . I believe . . . . . . I believe that . . . It's great that you have beliefs and all but your beliefs don't really mean that much in the real world. Anybody who is alive has beliefs. Having them doesn't make beliefs useful or true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 . . . I believe . . . . . . I believe that . . . It's great that you have beliefs and all but your beliefs don't really mean that much in the real world. Anybody who is alive has beliefs. Having them doesn't make beliefs useful or true. Sure they do. Believing X may be good for survival and actually true to one's individual experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymistake Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Sure they do. Believing X may be good for survival and actually true to one's individual experience. People routinely get themselves killed by holding false beliefs. True isn't an individual experience. You are making excuses for reckless thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 He says he's just pointing out doctrine. Yes, people can't live to that standard, but that's not his intent. His intent is to use the doctrine to intentionally hurt people by pointing out they are not equal to that standard. It's mean spirited, near hate-filled in my opinion. End3, are you saying that people can't live up to the standard that James lays out in his book? That the verse BAA quoted is something unattainable by you or I? I might be misunderstanding you, because that seems odd. If it's too hard to help someone instead of just giving them lip service, as the verse says to do, then why is it there? If Christ is the finished product, and all powerful besides, show me what he did to help the poor today. How many bricks of gold did he chip off of those Heavenly streets and drop into the plate at church, or even better, into the local food pantry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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